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Nodlehs Sabezan
Posted - 2011.06.08 20:58:00 - [1]
 

Ok so ive been reading the really large fail thread about Dust. LOL very entertaining read BTW, never knew there were so many failbox owner's out there that wanted to be Dust Bunnies! Anyways straying from why im making this post...

So alot of people say that Dust will not be released to the PC because there is a problem between PC user's have "better" controls then the console owners...this is kinda odd to me as I have a wired xbox controller (Nope i don't own a failbox) I use it for games for PC that support console controls.

So why not just make Dust on PC use either a wired x-box box controller (I know this would work), or a wired PS3 controller (not sure if this would work as never tried it) But would this not balance the issue of the PC people having better control in the FPS genre? This would also allow console and PC players to play together and noboy would have an advantage.

I find it hard to beleive that a game developer wouldn't know this...yet I a electrician does...weird...

I however have a theory that I find more likely as to why Dust is not being considered for PC though.

(Tin Foil Hat Time!!!)

I beleive it is because of the Bot problem in eve itself. As we all know Bot's in eve are ruining this game for honest players. Now add Aim-bot's in to Dust and you have a recipe for total fail.

I find this more likely to be the reason why Dust is not being considered for PC, as CPP to date have been horrible at detecting and appropriatly wacking the pee pee's of those dishonest folk.

that is all...

northwesten
Amarr
Trinity Corporate Services
Terran United Federation
Posted - 2011.06.08 20:59:00 - [2]
 

Rolling EyesRolling EyesRolling Eyes ******ed much?

Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.08 21:00:00 - [3]
 

I think maybe it is easier to make a PS3 game. Just make it on PS3, run on all PS3. If there is a bug on a PS3, there is a bug on all PS3 and CCP can easily fix the game?

With PCs, there are just too many configurations to make and test the game quickly.

Nodlehs Sabezan
Posted - 2011.06.08 21:02:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
I think maybe it is easier to make a PS3 game. Just make it on PS3, run on all PS3. If there is a bug on a PS3, there is a bug on all PS3 and CCP can easily fix the game?

With PCs, there are just too many configurations to make and test the game quickly.


So just following your logic here it's OK/Good for a game development studio to be lazy?

5nake pliskan
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.08 21:03:00 - [5]
 

I think its easier to read a whole thread and reply by making a new one Rolling Eyes

Nodlehs Sabezan
Posted - 2011.06.08 21:05:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: 5nake pliskan
I think its easier to read a whole thread and reply by making a new one Rolling Eyes


Yes i am a special snowflake

Tza Omi
Posted - 2011.06.08 21:18:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Nodlehs Sabezan
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
I think maybe it is easier to make a PS3 game. Just make it on PS3, run on all PS3. If there is a bug on a PS3, there is a bug on all PS3 and CCP can easily fix the game?

With PCs, there are just too many configurations to make and test the game quickly.


So just following your logic here it's OK/Good for a game development studio to be lazy?


So how many other games do you play that are ported from PC to Mac, to Unix, to PS3 and to Xbox?

Nodlehs Sabezan
Posted - 2011.06.08 21:23:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Tza Omi
Originally by: Nodlehs Sabezan
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
I think maybe it is easier to make a PS3 game. Just make it on PS3, run on all PS3. If there is a bug on a PS3, there is a bug on all PS3 and CCP can easily fix the game?

With PCs, there are just too many configurations to make and test the game quickly.


So just following your logic here it's OK/Good for a game development studio to be lazy?


So how many other games do you play that are ported from PC to Mac, to Unix, to PS3 and to Xbox?


don't really understand what's so difficult about making a console game port to PC (they would only increase the ammount of people playing) that only lets a PC player use a console controller while in the game...and i've played quite a few console to pc ports that i could use a xbox controller on my PC just fine, so its not like there isnt president.

Crewman Jenkins
Caldari
Malicious Demi-Lancers
Posted - 2011.06.08 21:27:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Crewman Jenkins on 08/06/2011 21:27:13
A PC gamer that uses a console controller is a fake PC gamer.

Nodlehs Sabezan
Posted - 2011.06.08 21:34:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Nodlehs Sabezan on 08/06/2011 21:35:24
Originally by: Crewman Jenkins
Edited by: Crewman Jenkins on 08/06/2011 21:27:13
A PC gamer that uses a console controller is a fake PC gamer.


and your point would be? There is a large portion of people claiming that it would be "unfair" to let PC players play with Console players. I am simply pointing out how false a statement this is.

It is totally plausable to equalize the perceived advantage that PC players have simply by modifying the way they input commands.

IE: make them use the same type of controls as the console...the only reason a PC FPS player wouldnt want this is because...

A. Stuck in they're ways.

B. Can't adapt...which mean's they die.

C. They know they have a real advantage and don't wanna give it up.

D. All of the Above

Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.08 21:35:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Nodlehs Sabezan
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
I think maybe it is easier to make a PS3 game. Just make it on PS3, run on all PS3. If there is a bug on a PS3, there is a bug on all PS3 and CCP can easily fix the game?

With PCs, there are just too many configurations to make and test the game quickly.


So just following your logic here it's OK/Good for a game development studio to be lazy?


I didn't say CCP is lazy. The PS3 version could be the first step then after that PC. If x money has been spent on developing a game then you will need y money from the investment to develop the game further.

If x money can get you y money quicker then by all means get y money quicker. From y money, you can further invest it to development the game further, maybe on a PC this time to make z money.

During the development process, while waiting for z money to materialise, you will still make y money until z money comes.

The bottom line is all about how to make money the shortest time possible. It is like an optimisation problem where you minimise on development time and maximising on income or profit.

There are already more than 50M PS3 out there as of today and when Dust comes, CCP has the potential to access 50M customers. Sure, not all 50M will play Dust but let's assume 5% of PS3 users will play Dust.

That 5% is 2.5M customers. When compared to Eve's 2011 subscription count of 400k, that is like almost 5 times, yes five times, 5x the amount of potential customers.

It is prudent to tap into that market then expands later on a PC because PC will require testing and time just to reap that reward. It doesn't mean PC Dust won't come. It will but slower because it needs to be a bit more polished for suitable for use.

Nodlehs Sabezan
Posted - 2011.06.08 21:38:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Nodlehs Sabezan on 08/06/2011 21:40:33
Edited by: Nodlehs Sabezan on 08/06/2011 21:38:46
Oops edit the editor didnt do what i wanted.

You may have a point that it could come l8r Jenny. It could and hopefully it will for those FPS fans...yuck FPS motion sickness = Win for me lol not really

Kallista Naari
Posted - 2011.06.08 21:40:00 - [13]
 

If Dust was on PC but controller only, I still wouldn't buy it.

Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.08 21:40:00 - [14]
 

If there is any failure on Dust will fail, it is the playerbase's understanding that is fail on why Dust 514 makes sense on PS3 or console.

It is like Mass Effect (not the sequel because we are talking about a new concept, game, release). It came out on 360 then PCs.

Nodlehs Sabezan
Posted - 2011.06.08 21:41:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Kallista Naari
If Dust was on PC but controller only, I still wouldn't buy it.


As i wouldnt either as FPS are not my genre

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2011.06.08 21:41:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Kallista Naari
If Dust was on PC but controller only, I still wouldn't buy it.


: O

good point. I mean i LOVE mouse and keyboard controls for fps. But this would be a compromise i could live with.

plus it's free

Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.08 21:43:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Nodlehs Sabezan
Edited by: Nodlehs Sabezan on 08/06/2011 21:40:33
Edited by: Nodlehs Sabezan on 08/06/2011 21:38:46
Oops edit the editor didnt do what i wanted.

You may have a point that it could come l8r Jenny. It could and hopefully it will for those FPS fans...yuck FPS motion sickness = Win for me lol not really


Of course, Jenny has a point that it will come later because it all makes business sense. CCP is not stupid. They have a strategy.

I agree with their strategy and I support them.

Mspaine
Amarr
Ministry of War
Posted - 2011.06.08 22:04:00 - [18]
 

They wont make it a PC game because:

CCP have stated they DONT WANT the eve playerbase playing dust.

They want dust to appeal to the - dynamic oposite - of eve players

One way of them doing this was to put it on a console, an even better way was to choose the PS3 only.


In other words - CCP dont want your money or support for Dust - They want it to crash and burn by launching their first ever console game onto the market to compete with Well established games - such as Battlefield 3 and the new COD, which is a guarenteed fail.


At least - if they appealed to their current playerbase - they'd have loyal fans backing the game all the way - and advertising the game in the process, allowing CCP to iron out/smoothe the edges of their fist ever Console FPS game untill its refined enough to compete well with the other FPS games that dominate the market.


CCP's mistakes are:


Turning their back on their current playerbase - after stating numerous times that the outcome of Dust games will have a direct impact on the EvE world. Because it's going to impact eve players directly - It's absolutely ludacris that CCP are unable to see/understand/care why their playerbase is now in uproar. Angry players - as the eve community should know well by now how we work - will Boycott the game in protest. Contributing to bad reviews and discouraging others from buying the game to prove a point.


Deliberately angering players by telling them point blank - We dont want you playing dust - We want the "dynamic oposite" of what YOU (the Eve player) are to be playing Dust.


CCP are deliberately not doing anything about botters. Why? How many bot accounts are there? LOTS. How much money will they loose out if they terminate all the bot accounts that they know of? LOTS. What will happen with the player economy if all bots are removed and constant supplies of minerals/moon goo/you name it are shunted. It takes time and patience to do what the bots are doing. Honest players will never be able to keep up with the output the current botters are contributing to the market. Prices will go thru the roof. More players will quit because they cant afford anything. so CCP is more than happy to continue with their "Hush hush internal rule" of - If it only bots for 8 hours per day - we'll leave it be. If it bots 23/7 - We will ban it.


And finaly - the biggest CCP screw up of all:

Changing their focus from making the best game possible, that's orintated around the players - for the players - and setting their focus on Lets make Cash quick and easy at the expense of player's happyness.


AlisterCrowley
Posted - 2011.06.08 22:04:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Kallista Naari
If Dust was on PC but controller only, I still wouldn't buy it.


^

I like my shooters how they were ment to be played, with a ****ing keyboard and mouse. Am I stuck in my ways? I guess you could say that, because I've tried shooters with a controller, and don't like it even though I manage along fine. I play games on a PC to play games on a PC, not be forced into playing on a console, or like I was playing on a console.


Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.08 22:06:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Mspaine
They wont make it a PC game because:

CCP have stated they DONT WANT the eve playerbase playing dust.

They want dust to appeal to the - dynamic oposite - of eve players

One way of them doing this was to put it on a console, an even better way was to choose the PS3 only.


Is that what you say for them? Is there proof of CCP don't want Eve players to play Dust? It sounds a bit of a borderline rubbish because Eve players can have PC and PS3. What is to prevent them from playing Dust?

Mersault
Gallente
The Pie Factory
Posted - 2011.06.08 22:09:00 - [21]
 

Unless you care about EvE Dust will be 'just another' Sci Fi FPS.

Do CCP really think legions of PS3 players will embrace Dust just because they can possibly effect an MMO they may have never played ?


Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.06.08 22:15:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 08/06/2011 22:15:39
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Is that what you say for them? Is there proof of CCP don't want Eve players to play Dust?
Saying that they don't want EVE players to play Dust is overstating it somewhat. However, they have said that the target audience for Dust is more or less the diametrical opposite of the normal EVE player. So it's still pretty close…

Mersault
Gallente
The Pie Factory
Posted - 2011.06.08 22:16:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Originally by: Mspaine
They wont make it a PC game because:

CCP have stated they DONT WANT the eve playerbase playing dust.

They want dust to appeal to the - dynamic oposite - of eve players

One way of them doing this was to put it on a console, an even better way was to choose the PS3 only.


Is that what you say for them? Is there proof of CCP don't want Eve players to play Dust? It sounds a bit of a borderline rubbish because Eve players can have PC and PS3. What is to prevent them from playing Dust?



Jenny - CCP previously said they are trying to reach new people with Dust. My point is that the most interested in Dust will be people who play EvE.

Most of them have a PC. A few of them will have a PS3, not all.

CCP aren't going for EvE players per se with Dust, they want to create something new. My fear is that console players won't necessarily care about Dust. Or EvE. EvE players do. It's a radical and new expansion to the world we invested time, money and passion in. To other's it's just another console FPS.

Mspaine
Amarr
Ministry of War
Posted - 2011.06.08 22:20:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Originally by: Mspaine
They wont make it a PC game because:

CCP have stated they DONT WANT the eve playerbase playing dust.

They want dust to appeal to the - dynamic oposite - of eve players

One way of them doing this was to put it on a console, an even better way was to choose the PS3 only.


Is that what you say for them? Is there proof of CCP don't want Eve players to play Dust? It sounds a bit of a borderline rubbish because Eve players can have PC and PS3. What is to prevent them from playing Dust?




Please go watch CCP's E3 Interview Re: Dust 514.


They want dust to appeal to the dynamic opposite of Eve players - hense why they chose it to be a console game and a FPS.


I dont know about you - but if you cant understand by CCP's above statment - that by appealing to the DYNAMIC OPOSITE of the Eve online players - means they want the exact oposite type of people than us playing.

To go into it better - They think that if the eve players all jump into dust that we'll kill the community with our smacktalk and griefing.

They cant do anything to stop EVE players from playing dust - other than greatly discourage them by putting it on a console, one of the less commonly used ones at that. But choosing what they have has pretty much ensured that alot of eve players that WANT to play Dust - cannot (without forking out $600 for the console, the game, and a subscription to PSN - possibly more when PSN gets hacked and the credit card numbers stolen again)

But going back to the main point - Go watch the E3 video.

Mersault
Gallente
The Pie Factory
Posted - 2011.06.08 22:26:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Mersault on 08/06/2011 22:31:02
Originally by: Mspaine
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Originally by: Mspaine
They wont make it a PC game because:

CCP have stated they DONT WANT the eve playerbase playing dust.

They want dust to appeal to the - dynamic oposite - of eve players

One way of them doing this was to put it on a console, an even better way was to choose the PS3 only.


Is that what you say for them? Is there proof of CCP don't want Eve players to play Dust? It sounds a bit of a borderline rubbish because Eve players can have PC and PS3. What is to prevent them from playing Dust?




Please go watch CCP's E3 Interview Re: Dust 514.


They want dust to appeal to the dynamic opposite of Eve players - hense why they chose it to be a console game and a FPS.


I dont know about you - but if you cant understand by CCP's above statment - that by appealing to the DYNAMIC OPOSITE of the Eve online players - means they want the exact oposite type of people than us playing.

To go into it better - They think that if the eve players all jump into dust that we'll kill the community with our smacktalk and griefing.

They cant do anything to stop EVE players from playing dust - other than greatly discourage them by putting it on a console, one of the less commonly used ones at that. But choosing what they have has pretty much ensured that alot of eve players that WANT to play Dust - cannot (without forking out $600 for the console, the game, and a subscription to PSN - possibly more when PSN gets hacked and the credit card numbers stolen again)

But going back to the main point - Go watch the E3 video.


Erm - prevent us from poluting FPS with our smack talk and griefing?

Are you serious?

Ever played an FPS online? Have you?

Seriously - get a grip. Most folks acknowledge that XBOX live won't support what CCP wnat to do with Dust.

Fair enough. So they went to PS3 - PC was never considered.

My previous point - Dust activity is supposed to effect the mechanices in EvE.

Why should console FPS folks care about Dust?

Why?

Oh here's cool it's an FPS linked to an MMO. Play a while.

Meh, bored, trade in, off to COD etc etc etc

EvE players care about Dust - not usual FPS console players who do not play EvE.


if I am wrong - GOOD. I want to be wrong, voicing my fears and saluting CCP's bravery . . .


Mister Smithington
Posted - 2011.06.08 22:33:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Mspaine
. . .


With the exception of the bot tinfoilhattery this is an excellent summary.

From the Rock, Paper, Shotgun interview:
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/06/08/interview-ccp-on-dust-514-and-eve/

Quote:
Among our hardcore community there was some rumbling, of course. “Why can’t I play it on my PC?” But you already have EVE on the PC, and what we’re trying to do is introduce the world of EVE to a larger audience.

Quote:
Well, we don’t want to cannibalise our own player-base.

Quote:
Thomas: You’re introducing them to that audience. But to say that the two games are linked is a misnomer. They’re one. DUST isn’t calling into it. They exist on the same server, on the same shard.

Torfi: They share the same economy, the same world map, the same corporation structure. You can be a DUST or EVE player and be in the same corporation, and the same alliance. You share the same currency. It is the same game. It’s just different game modes.

Let's try to make sense of this. It's the same game, the same world, the same shard, the same server. The actions of one group affects the others.

However, current Eve players will not be able to participate in this new feature to the "same game" on the hardware they're currently using. Furthermore, CCP doesn't want our money becaue, hey, even though it's "the same game" They don't want the player base from one game playing "the same game."

None of this makes any goddamn sense.

Also, instead of making a PC version of Dust controller-compatible only, they could just as easily make the PS3 version keyboard and mouse compatible.

Nodlehs Sabezan
Posted - 2011.06.08 22:53:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Mister Smithington
Originally by: Mspaine
. . .



Also, instead of making a PC version of Dust controller-compatible only, they could just as easily make the PS3 version keyboard and mouse compatible.


That's an interesting counter point to my OP. I had not thought of that and they very well could if they were so inclined. So in less then a few hours weve come up with 2 completely viable ways of having PC players and Console players interact with neither side gaining an advantage from input devices...so where should i apply for a job CPP? LOL J/K

I also think they're strategy of not allowing PC purely on the basis of not wanting to "canabilize" the current eve player base to be unwarrented. As someone previously has pointed out, that they are in reality the same game, same server, same isk, etc. Just different game modes. This strikes to as having the ring of truth to it.

So CPP i challenge you, live up to your promise of excellence and allow current eve subscribers to play Dust via the current eve client as a differing game mode. Not only will you make the entire community happy without "canabalizing" the PB, you will increase players actually playing the new mode, and you still can grab new Players through the console.

Win all the way around....well except for me i'd never touch Dust as FPS make me motion sick, but im like 1 in 10000ish people that literally can't play FPS's.

Amber Accelerando
Posted - 2011.06.08 23:02:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Amber Accelerando on 08/06/2011 23:17:28
the driver for a 360 controller is built into all MS OS, if thats what you're talking about.

As to why no PC, the answers were vague in a recent interview, but they did say never say never. It's early days, I expect dust to be released on PC.

edit; I totally agree with Mr Smithington, none of it makes sense, CCP came across as bumbling idiots unable to respond sensibly to simple questions in the rock paper shotgun int.

-Cannibalize the EvE playerbase is the most ridiculous excuse, I can't believe they used it as the reason for PS3 exclusivity.

-I'm seriously alarmed by what I read, 2 of the most senior members of CCP say about EvE players & their tidy little deal with [evil corp] Sony.

-CCP be careful you are stepping on a lot of toes here.Neutral

Mspaine
Amarr
Ministry of War
Posted - 2011.06.08 23:02:00 - [29]
 

The problem is again with that - The eve players are definately want to get in on Dust because it's going to impact them directly.

Its entirely logical for (you cant tell me this isnt going to happen either) That corps will encourage Eve players whom are also Dust 514 players - and even give them inceitives for the Dust/Eve combo players to join. Why? An alliances own personal Dust batillion - Dedicated only to defending their own planets - or attacking their enemies planets - Rather than hoardes of "FPS only" players that are going to continualy jumping into games - without care for what planet's they're attacking - they're just there for the FPS Pew pew. To them Eve is oblivious.

Re: Canibilising their own customers - I'm sure there are many many many miners out there who threw up their hands in joy when they realised they could setup their PS3 next to their pc (LCD Tv 22" with a DVI port - so dual monitor setup - just one monitor can be hotswapped to the PS3) And actualy give themselves something amusing to do rather than stare at asteroids spinning in space while a laser is hitting them - and every 5mins or so drag the ore from the cargohold to a can or simply dock in station to drop it off before going back to do the exact same thing for hours on end to make ends meat.

Lets face it - Eve can get boring at times. Once you've stripped so many belts and run the same mission/plex/anom a few thousand times - it can get repetative. There's a reason the community side of eve is pushed so heavily - The entertainment while you're out mining roids is provided by you're corp and alliance mates - not the joy of watching your'e mining laser or missile crash into something that you've seen happen a thousand times before.

For the people whom dislike the Corp/Alliance side of eve - When mining - their Favorite TV shows/movies - or even homework aids them with getting the task done - keeping their minds active rather than on pause while waiting for the mining lasers to finish their 5min cycle.


The above is another reason why Eve players were so excited over the announcement of dust - and now so furious they're unable to have a slice of the cake.


Think about it in more - Dust will also come into play for Wardecs, camping and pvp.

Move a cloakey into a system - Afk for some dust

Got wardecced? know there's 20 reds outside just waiting for you to undock? Afk for some dust!


Station spinning in 0.0 because there's not enough ppl online or you're bored? AFK for some dust!


Again - making Dust link in directly with eve was one hell of a way to guarentee that the eve players are definately going to want to get their hands on the cake. Especialy when eve's playerbase is that dedicated - they'll send people out in IRL to cut the enemy's power cables to their house to ensure the guy die's in game. (http://gadgetopia.com/post/6781)

CCP has allways put its players first. It's nice that CCP want to expand to the Console market - But linking in Dust how they have has guarenteed the eve playerbase will be a large majority of the Dust playerbase. How they could not see this makes us even more angry - because a company suposidly dedicated to its players should have been able to see this coming a mile away.

Dont put it past CCP to make all Highsec planets Un-PIable under the grounds that they have been stripped dry if they ever need/feel they need to give Dust514 more of an impact in eve. That way you'll be forced to pay more attention to Dust players as the price of you're Pos fuels etc will be in their hands.

Mspaine
Amarr
Ministry of War
Posted - 2011.06.08 23:07:00 - [30]
 

Oh - i'd also like to point this out Re: Ps3 and the keyboard and mouse.

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1524248

That is entirely up to CCP.

I have a strong feeling they will disallow support for the keyboard and mouse tho - again under the grounds they want to aim for the dynamic oposite of Eve players.

I wouldent go jumping for joy about the PS3 being Keyboard/Mouse friendly untill CCP officialy announce their stance - IE if they're going to impliment a bit of extra code so the PS3 will allow you to play Dust with the keyboard and mouse.

as the person in that thread - so far only one of the Unreal games has enabled the support of the keyboard and mouse. Other than that game - its only good for the Sytem browser/browsing the web etc on the PS3.



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