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Nikita LaFem
Posted - 2011.06.07 01:10:00 - [1]
 

Ok, I am beginning to run L4's and you guys have helped me a lot getting a start on my fitting.

Running Damsel in Distress and getting my Rattler dropped in at 0km with WAY Too many battle ships.

With the fit below I can hold just long enough to take 1 battleship out before I have to warp out.

What do I need to change. This setup gives me 617 defence. I am willing to spend some ISK to get this to where I can hang and fight instead of running out and in.

HELP!


[Rattlesnake, Texas Rattler]
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

Republic Fleet Target Painter
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Invulnerability Field II
Caldari Navy Heat Dissipation Amplifier
Caldari Navy Magnetic Scattering Amplifier
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile
Drone Link Augmentor I
Drone Link Augmentor I

Large Core Defence Field Purger I
Large Core Defence Field Purger I
Large Core Defence Field Purger I


Warrior II x5
Hammerhead II x5
Garde I x5
Bouncer I x5
Hobgoblin II x5

Mahkal
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.07 01:24:00 - [2]
 

Make sure you don't attack the trigger, he spawns about a crapload of battleships when he first takes damage.

Nikita LaFem
Posted - 2011.06.07 01:36:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Nikita LaFem on 07/06/2011 01:37:30
I dont think I did. However, it started off with like 8 battleships. Once I got it thinned down to 4-5 I could hang. However, surely I should be able to handle more than I am.

How do I improve this tank?

Better named modules? T2 rigs?

Also, this setup lest me run for 39 minutes. I did not originally have the Invul on there, was totally passive, but that did not work at all. I was into armor on the first trip. Second, third, etc, I could hang long enough to kill off 1 BS. Then, it got better when it was only like 4.

Nikita LaFem
Posted - 2011.06.07 02:21:00 - [4]
 

Well, I made it through that mission. As long as I am not tyring to aggro 8 battleships, I can do pretty well. However, I was pretty tense, especially when I got halfway through armor when I first jumped in.

What modules could I switch out to improve my tank?

I know, some of you will say I am overtanking, but I would prefer to do that right now. What can I change to help this?

Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
Posted - 2011.06.07 03:19:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Nikita LaFem
Well, I made it through that mission. As long as I am not tyring to aggro 8 battleships, I can do pretty well. However, I was pretty tense, especially when I got halfway through armor when I first jumped in.


Damsel will do that to you if you're not expecting it. But you can also just warp in at range and nuke from there. After all, you're flying with cruises and sentries....Question

Originally by: Nikita LaFem
What modules could I switch out to improve my tank?

I know, some of you will say I am overtanking, but I would prefer to do that right now. What can I change to help this?


Almost nothing. Faction/deadspace hardeners maybe. T2 purgers would be your best bet but... meh.

Bottom line, it is too much tank for your purposes; if I were you I'd start to ask how I could reduce it, increase gank, and get them missions done a bit more quickly. But each to their own.

Arciiman
Posted - 2011.06.07 03:28:00 - [6]
 

Hi,

I have two suggestions that may/will help you out a lot. First, swap the magnetic scattering amp to a kinetic one. this will give a huge boost in tank against Mercenaries (the rats in Damsel in Distress). That should give between 700 and 1000 dps tank running for >1 hour, depending on your cap and shield skills of course. If you can't get the invul+TP to run for 40 minutes it shouldn't be a very big deal because most missions won't last that long, but you may want to train your cap skills a bit higher. With Energy Systems Operation at 5 and Energy Management at 4 your should be able to run it for over 53 minutes. Long enough for most missions.

Your main damage will come from your sentries anyway, so if needed you could try swapping the BCU for another SPR II.

Did you try orbiting one of your sentries while fighting? I always find this helps my tank out a bit, even in BS size ships. Sitting still is never a good idea.

I hope this helps you a little further :)

Arciiman
Posted - 2011.06.07 03:31:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Arciiman on 07/06/2011 03:33:06
What Zhilia said also works, if you have good skills. Instead of 1 purger rig add a sentry drone damage rig on it and perhaps swap some SPR II's for more BCU's to get a proper gank fit. Will give you much less tank, but as long as you kill things in the right order and fast enough, you don't need much tank anyway :)

Also, look here: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1522894

Nikita LaFem
Posted - 2011.06.07 13:12:00 - [8]
 

Thanks for the input. I figured out (after the fact) that I was not resetting my warp to distance (forgot since I had not done missions in a while). That would have helped hugely! Getting dropped repetitively into the middle of that many battleships was a bad thing. However, had it been a acc gate it would have been the same situation.

I thought about replacing the one BCU with another SPR, which has a big effect on total tank, but then my DPS takes a substantial hit. However, the Sentry's are what I have to get comfortable relying on (just began using them).

I will make a few changes per your notations, I appreciate the input.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.07 15:14:00 - [9]
 

That build looks fine, but I have to ask, what dps are you talking about for your tank? Omni or mission specific? If that is omni its WAY over tanked and you can definitely run another BCU.

Of course you should learn the missions and their triggers first, and get comfortable with them. THEN add the BCU.

Eventually when you get better skills and learn thermodynamics you can fit a 2nd TP or 3rd BCU.

Nikita LaFem
Posted - 2011.06.07 15:27:00 - [10]
 

Quote:
That build looks fine, but I have to ask, what dps are you talking about for your tank? Omni or mission specific? If that is omni its WAY over tanked and you can definitely run another BCU.
Of course you should learn the missions and their triggers first, and get comfortable with them. THEN add the BCU.
Eventually when you get better skills and learn thermodynamics you can fit a 2nd TP or 3rd BCU.


Cipher, you hit on a topic that I need to do better at (mission specific hardners). I tend to try to run an Omni type tank, which is part of my problem. I am seeing that running a 2nd BCU will help, especially if I get mission specific tanks that I can use. In this mission it was not the trigger so much as it was me not changing my Warp to distance, thus I was constantly coming in at 0 (I forgot that when you change your default it changes it in mission).

I do have Thermodynamics trained, but only to Level II. How does improving Thermodynamics help this?

Leetha Layne
Posted - 2011.06.07 16:55:00 - [11]
 

I may be too late, but if you blow up the casino before attacking Kruul, the 6 BS don't spawn.

If you already spawned the six BS, wait for server reset and start again. Makes a big difference.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.07 18:52:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Nikita LaFem
Quote:
That build looks fine, but I have to ask, what dps are you talking about for your tank? Omni or mission specific? If that is omni its WAY over tanked and you can definitely run another BCU.
Of course you should learn the missions and their triggers first, and get comfortable with them. THEN add the BCU.
Eventually when you get better skills and learn thermodynamics you can fit a 2nd TP or 3rd BCU.


Cipher, you hit on a topic that I need to do better at (mission specific hardners). I tend to try to run an Omni type tank, which is part of my problem. I am seeing that running a 2nd BCU will help, especially if I get mission specific tanks that I can use. In this mission it was not the trigger so much as it was me not changing my Warp to distance, thus I was constantly coming in at 0 (I forgot that when you change your default it changes it in mission).

I do have Thermodynamics trained, but only to Level II. How does improving Thermodynamics help this?


In a nutshell...

http://www.ogrank.com/content/view/698/59/

That page shows you the numbers to enter into EFT's specific damage types, found on the right of your EFT screen somewhere (right click on your tank # i believe). I didn't know if you knew how to see rat specific tank so that's the crash course.

L4 missions do not produce a static amount of DPS, It changes depending on how you hit the triggers etc etc. At certain points there will be much more DPS coming in than after you kill the first few ships. If you have thermodynamics you can overheat your hardeners for "burst" dps tank. The skill itself allows you to overheat at level 1, and reduces the amount of damage your modules take by 5% per level. Here is a primer on that...

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Heat_%28Game_mechanic%29

Once you mull through all that you can see what the #'s from overheating look like in EFT, left click on the active module in EFT. For example my typhoon tank goes from aprox. 900 to 1130 when I overheat both reppers.

Its the kind of thing you want to take baby steps into, like cap boosters.




Nikita LaFem
Posted - 2011.06.07 19:01:00 - [13]
 

Very helpful, Cipher. Thank you very much. I will study up.

Kneebone
K-H Light Industries
Posted - 2011.06.07 21:03:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Kneebone on 07/06/2011 21:06:05
I have to ask, what are your skills at for tanking, namely Shield Management and Shield Operations? Also what rank is your Caldari Battleship skill? All of those impact your ability to tank.

I plugged in that exact same setup and my EFT tank and it is all 1100+ across the board for mercs and angels, over 1300 for Sansha. If I drop all three of mine from Rank 5 to Rank 3 My tank drops down to about high 700's.

Nikita LaFem
Posted - 2011.06.07 21:41:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Nikita LaFem on 07/06/2011 21:48:56
Edited by: Nikita LaFem on 07/06/2011 21:43:37
Shield Management is 4, Shield Operation is 4

With my skills this setup is 617.

In my training queue I ahve all shield skills planned to level 4, Shield ops, shield mgmt and tactical shield manipulation planned to 5. I added in Energy Grid Upgrades and Shield Upgrades to 5 as well. That will take me 25 days.

I would assume that all this would be worth my time?

WER386
Posted - 2011.06.08 00:54:00 - [16]
 

I have same trouble but with a way different ship: Abaddon. I can't really remember my setup but was something sorta:

8x Mega Pulse laser I
AB100 II, 2x Cap Recharger II, Web I
DCU II, Armor rep II, Adaptive nano membrane II, Capacitor Rely II
(Kinetic) armor hardener II (forgot name :P)
& Heat sink II (or a 1600m Rolled Tungsten plate, can't remember).
3x Heavy drones which proven to be useless with my current drone skills.

Damsel gave me such a headache... problem wasn't tanking the whole group, problem was I was there barely enough to take 1 BS per trip, they break trough my armor so fast I couldn't seriously do anything else but kill one and run. That fitting run for like 30 mins without get dry, however I got way better skills ATM and I'm willing to get another Abaddon just to get back to lvl4 missions, but I lost 2 so far because of leaks or mistakes (a tiny drone with scramble completely crippled me while another 20+ frigate sized drones and a drone BS took my cute 'baddon down) in my setups.
Could comeone tell me a kinda "overkill" setup for an Abaddon?

Quality Poaster SEEEEE
Posted - 2011.06.08 02:13:00 - [17]
 

This just in: You can no longer earn free ARUM via posting terrible rattlesnake fits in your own "helpmeL2rattlesnake" threads.

Please do not carry on.

Nikita LaFem
Posted - 2011.06.08 02:42:00 - [18]
 

Quote:
This just in: You can no longer earn free ARUM via posting terrible rattlesnake fits in your own "helpmeL2rattlesnake" threads.

Please do not carry on.


This just in: even your avatar looks like a douche!

Quality Poaster SEEEEE
Posted - 2011.06.08 02:43:00 - [19]
 

Oh you dun goofed this time!

I'll see you at the monkey bars~ Evil or Very Mad

Nikita LaFem
Posted - 2011.06.08 02:44:00 - [20]
 

Glad to see you got the monkey part right.

ELECTR0FREAK
Eye of God
Posted - 2011.06.08 03:51:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Quality Poaster SEEEEE
This just in: You can no longer earn free ARUM via posting terrible rattlesnake fits in your own "helpmeL2rattlesnake" threads.

Please do not carry on.


Except this isn't a terrible Rattlesnake fit. Razz

@OP: Mercenaries in general are a fast-moving lot (BS and cruisers orbit at ~200 m/s). Swap to T1 cruise and you'll actually do more damage than you would with the Furies, trust me. (Or don't, and use Stoicfaux's Missile Damage Calculator Spreadsheet). It takes a few mins to get set up but really is a great tool.

stoicfaux
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.08 04:00:00 - [22]
 

mission dps breakdown

Drop the CN BCU for a Damage Control II. Try using a Thermal hardener, Invul hardener and another LSEII.


Nikita LaFem
Posted - 2011.06.08 14:59:00 - [23]
 

I will download the calculator. I am interested in seeing how T1's do more effective damage.

So, as I tune this a bit more (based on the last recommendations and playing with the last 3 Low slots, what in L4's (from you guys knowledge) is my best general setup (expecting I may need to swap something depending on mission).

All below are in additon to 3 SPR's in the top low slots (sans Drone DPS);
- 1 SPR, 2 CNBCS = EHP 99,040, Defence 520, Firepower 240
- 2 SPR, 1 CNBCS = EHP 99,040, Defence 684, Firepower 197
- 1 SPR, 1 Dmg Cntl II, 1 CNBCS = EHP 129,293, Defence 594, Firepower 197
- 1 DMG Cntl II, 2 CNBCS = EHP 129,293, Defence 452, Firepower 240

THanks for hanging with me on answering all my questions. I truly appreciate it.

Nikita LaFem
Posted - 2011.06.08 18:29:00 - [24]
 

Could one of you guys who is way more knowledgable than I am look at the breakdown above and let me know what my best mission setup is?

I picked up explosive and kinetic modules to swap out based on mission, so I think I am good there. Also, I am working to better manage the aggro of the room, I just want to know which of the setups I listed for the last 3 slots will serve me best.

Thanks again for responding to my repeated pestering.

Kneebone
K-H Light Industries
Posted - 2011.06.08 19:37:00 - [25]
 

If you are having trouble with your sustained tank, there is nothing wrong with fitting a buffer to do it with. The 130k EHP tanks will help with that. The trick to the merc/angels missions with the Mach hulls is dealing with the damage before it gets out of hand. You can take it one step more by swapping the SPR's for PDU's to add more buffer as well. That being said here is the fit I would try. I bumped all my skills down to 4's and get 500 passive regen with a 164k EHP tankTry to warp in at your sentry optimals and go from there. Also if they get close, pull in your sentries and switch to heavy drones and start moving. Sitting still is the worst thing you can do in this case:

[Rattlesnake, Testing]
Damage Control II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

Heat Dissipation Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Republic Fleet Target Painter
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Cataclysm Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Cataclysm Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Cataclysm Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Cataclysm Cruise Missile
Black Eagle Drone Link Augmentor
Small Tractor Beam I

Large Sentry Damage Augmentor I
Large Core Defence Field Purger I
Large Core Defence Field Purger I


Garde II x5
Ogre II x5
Hammerhead II x5
Hobgoblin II x5
Vespa II x5
Warrior II x5




Kneebone
K-H Light Industries
Posted - 2011.06.08 19:49:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Kneebone on 08/06/2011 19:50:55
And now a different perspective, This is what I use:

[Rattlesnake, Active]
Damage Control II
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II

Dread Guristas X-Large Shield Booster
Dread Guristas Heat Dissipation Field
Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link

Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Torpedo
Black Eagle Drone Link Augmentor
Small Tractor Beam I

Large Sentry Damage Augmentor I
Large Core Defence Capacitor safeguard I
Large Core Defence Operational Solidifier I


Garde II x5
Ogre II x5

Spits out about 1k DPS with Grades and tanks in the high 900's. not designed to be cap stable, designed to put on the hurt at close range.

When doing missions that have largers ships in the 30-50km range, like Guri or Serps, I switch to cruise missles, drop a TP and add a second Omni.

Nikita LaFem
Posted - 2011.06.08 19:55:00 - [27]
 

Thanks Kneebone, I like that first setup for my skills, it seems to be very balanced and should allow me to handle things better.

Once my skills are a bit stronger I will give your second setup a try. Hopefully, with a run of successful L4 missions I will have the funds to buy some of the better stuff you list as well.

I really appreciate the input.

Kneebone
K-H Light Industries
Posted - 2011.06.08 20:03:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Nikita LaFem
Thanks Kneebone, I like that first setup for my skills, it seems to be very balanced and should allow me to handle things better.

Once my skills are a bit stronger I will give your second setup a try. Hopefully, with a run of successful L4 missions I will have the funds to buy some of the better stuff you list as well.

I really appreciate the input.


The only expensive thing is really the Invul field, you can get by with T2, but it gets tight on the CPU.

Nikita LaFem
Posted - 2011.06.08 20:07:00 - [29]
 

Yea I looked those up on contract last night and had seizure number two.

However, they really provide a good bump over the T2 modules.

Nikita LaFem
Posted - 2011.06.09 03:49:00 - [30]
 

Much thanks to everyone who provided me input on this thread. Testing the new setup tonight in a couple of L4's proved that it was solid. Tanked each mission without having to leave once, dealt out enough DPS to run through them quickly enough.

I really appreciate all the help.


 

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