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blankseplocked What is the fastest 'above' Battleship for PvE i.e Level 4's, 0.0 PvE
 
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Herr Wallenquist
Posted - 2011.06.06 09:09:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Herr Wallenquist on 06/06/2011 09:09:36
.

Iím trying to figure out whatís the best and most efficient ship to spend your ISKs and skills on but also have the most potential to do PvE faster and efficiently with; notably Level 4ís, Ratting/Hubs, Sleepers maybe?

Iíve come down to three most familiar choices (Iíve been told/heard about) and these three ships seem fit to the PvE activities mentioned above

Machariel Ė I think itís a toss up between Nightmare but these things Iíve heard can rip Lvl4ís fast enough, it has a lower price tag and artillery?? seems pretty cool but then again I wouldnít take it out to 0.0

Nightmare Ė Lazers? I thought of Nightmares as pretty good overall in PvE and in PvP as well but the price tag and the overall shiny-ness is just a bit too much or rather delicate

Tengu Ė Tengu seems like a logical choice for me because; you can do just about the same with Level 4ís (the BSís NPC spawns there are pretty quick to kill) and by Ratting/Hubs (Iíve seen a Tengu just rip Hubs/Havens literally seconds than my ratting Raven) and you can also take it to WHís i.e Sleepers or dual with Ďem for quick bang, plus it is also customizable as it is a T3 ship; more efficient in ISK and the training time imo (usually around 30 days) And missiles are the ideal PvE weps, I've heard

Loki - I'm mostly near to be able to fly this T3 ship pretty capable but from all I heard whenever it's discussed is that it's only very very good on PvP

So what do you think? If youíre a savvy PvE'r. Iíd like to read some analysis on whatís the best bet to pour it all onto ISK/Skill wise, seems like the Tengu is more appealing

With the Mach itís a possibility but Iíve been running missions with only BSís and I know you do not make that money quickly enough after that sink in, eve with a blitzing mach

What is your suggestion(s)?

Fulmar Muse
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.06 11:11:00 - [2]
 

Tengu has 800 consistant dps that extends out to 110km, is fast, much faster than any other level 4 runner in terms of effiency... apart from EM based missions, which it does, just nowehere near as fast as say, WC, guristas extrav (b4 the jamming gayness) where you would just take your NM or mach anyways...

Tried mach out lastnight between incursion sites on angel extrav/infiltared outposts... blew my mind how good it was, all except for maybe some of the angel rms where they spawn @ 50-70km... tengu was hitting harder by a good 3rd or so around there

Loki, .. well, your better off not using it lol, has the same problem the mach has, but worse... it's cruiser sized range : /.... good WH, tough plex site and awesome pvp ship tho

Vargur I hear is pretty swish also, also the NM, but have yet to fly them

Solomon XI
Hidden Souls
Posted - 2011.06.06 11:23:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Solomon XI on 06/06/2011 11:24:38
---
Off that list, I'd have to suggest the Machariel to be quite honest. My buddy has one for PvE and I was absolutely astonished at the firepower it puts out. Something about a 17,000HP shot from Arties on a Guristas battleship blew my mind. That's also pretty constant.

So I highly recommend the Machariel if your wallet can take the financial hit. Just tank it properly and run 3 or 4 gyrostabs on it with Arties.

For 0.0, I recommend a Tengu. It's smaller, quicker, and has enough firepower to bring down the rats pretty quick.

Argosus
Waverunners
Posted - 2011.06.06 11:31:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Argosus on 06/06/2011 11:32:58
i've used a tengu for ages for lvl 4 missions. Its fast, and efficient and the missiles never miss unlike turrets. At the weekend for a change i decided to give my rattlesnake a go (won it on blink ) my tengu fit translated to the rattler with ease. It worked quite nicely. Sentry's give a nice volley and i polished off vengence and a few others with ease. I still think that the tengu is far superior for missions so i will most likely return to my tengu as it is much faster. Here is my fit if anyone is interested. Its not great but worked for me. flame away, i care not :P

[Rattlesnake, mission]
Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System
Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System
Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System
Dark Blood Capacitor Power Relay
Dark Blood Capacitor Power Relay
Dark Blood Capacitor Power Relay

INSERT MISSION SPECIFIC HARDENER HERE
INSERT MISSION SPECIFIC HARDENER HERE
Gist X-Type Large Shield Booster
Omnidirectional Tracking Link I
Domination Target Painter
Gist C-Type 100MN Afterburner
Omnidirectional Tracking Link I

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile
Drone Link Augmentor I
Drone Link Augmentor I

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Sentry Damage Augmentor I
Large Core Defence Capacitor safeguard I


Garde II x5


tpwh21
Posted - 2011.06.06 11:55:00 - [5]
 

anyone tried an armor tanked rattler stuffed with the various drone upgrades and TP?


Argosus
Waverunners
Posted - 2011.06.06 12:13:00 - [6]
 

only for pvp. works very nicely in an armor gang with logi's :)

Mr Majestyk
Combat and Recon
The Last Chancers.
Posted - 2011.06.06 15:16:00 - [7]
 

The Vargur, Golem, and Macharial are widely considered the 3 best PvE ships in the game. I wouldn't take any into a WH as they are active tanked.

Julien Brellier
Posted - 2011.06.06 19:02:00 - [8]
 

I recommend the Maelstrom. With either 800mm autocannons for rats who like to get up close (ie angels and serps) or 1400mm arty for blood, sansha and guristas.

With an XL shield booster and a boost amp it can tank almost any L4 mission long enough for the guns to reduce the incoming DPS to managable levels.

It's also cheap(er) to replace should anything go drastically wrong.

Replacing a Nightmare, Tengu, Vargur or Machariel aint cheap!!

VC General
Caldari
No Baals Inc
Posted - 2011.06.06 22:59:00 - [9]
 

If you're doing mostly ratting and WH's than the Tengu is it. I've always valued mobility for ratting over pure firepower myself. For missions, especially ones where it's just huge blobs of rats, and the goal is to waste them ASAP, the NM is where it's at. It melts everything but Angels almost as fast as you can activate the guns. I haven't had much of a chance to test it on Angels, but it might be serviceable against them with pulse lasers. Some people claim it's not that good against Guristas either, but I disagree. My NM at least, even melts the 1m+ bounty Gurista BS rats in 30 secs or less.

Female Face
Posted - 2011.06.07 00:38:00 - [10]
 

I cant speak about anything other than the mach as i am yet to fly the other ones you suggested but my 2 cents in this thread is that the mach is AMAZING.
Although i disagree with the guys above me and i would say use autocannons, its agile and fast enough to move around the place to get to the range you want, with barrage (if this is possible to use where you are) you can get like 60km + range, just fit 3 tracking enhancers and 3 gyros and your good to go, it eats missions real quick

JackStraw56
Bayesian Motion
Knights of Tomorrow
Posted - 2011.06.07 03:21:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Solomon XI
Edited by: Solomon XI on 06/06/2011 11:24:38So I highly recommend the Machariel if your wallet can take the financial hit. Just tank it properly and run 3 or 4 gyrostabs on it with Arties.
Very bad advice. The Mach is designed for 800mm autocannons.

Herr Wallenquist
Posted - 2011.06.07 09:24:00 - [12]
 

Iím liking T3 ships so far and the reviews on Tengus (even though the DPS is not that all, by mention) but consider for getting a Mach or a Tengu, Mach is wholly expensive though...

T3 Ships though seems more like a whole round ideal for PvE, I'd maybe just train for a Mach and then a Tengu then =P but both are pretty expensive nonetheless

tpwh21
Posted - 2011.06.07 11:12:00 - [13]
 

much as I enjoy having enough isk to burn on faction PVE ships. I really wonder if they are worth it.... To get a nightmare to perform properly you need at least a t2 cap rig, a decent deadspace shield booster on it, and really good support skills.
I would love to go out and spend 2-3bn on a nightmare - with a decent amount of faction gear. But that just makes me an easy in mission/at gate gank.
And just one mistake in mission or one lapse of attention it is all gone. And it is pretty tedious earning that 2bn back.
Really think for the risk/return - one of the best choices is probably a domi with decent drone skills or a decent t1 gunboat if you have the skills - certainly for my playstyle anyway.
Plus t3 - although not quite as good have other uses. whereas a faction fitted/t2 rigged BS is never leaving HS.
the problem with t3 is that - again like faction ships - they really don't truly shine until you seriously faction/deadspace fit them - which again leaves you target for an even smaller gank gang.

Mocam
Posted - 2011.06.07 12:24:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: tpwh21
much as I enjoy having enough isk to burn on faction PVE ships. I really wonder if they are worth it.... To get a nightmare to perform properly you need at least a t2 cap rig, a decent deadspace shield booster on it, and really good support skills.
I would love to go out and spend 2-3bn on a nightmare - with a decent amount of faction gear. But that just makes me an easy in mission/at gate gank.
And just one mistake in mission or one lapse of attention it is all gone. And it is pretty tedious earning that 2bn back.
Really think for the risk/return - one of the best choices is probably a domi with decent drone skills or a decent t1 gunboat if you have the skills - certainly for my playstyle anyway.
Plus t3 - although not quite as good have other uses. whereas a faction fitted/t2 rigged BS is never leaving HS.
the problem with t3 is that - again like faction ships - they really don't truly shine until you seriously faction/deadspace fit them - which again leaves you target for an even smaller gank gang.



It really depends on where you are at in your career. "worth it" is quite relative to your expenses too.

I fly a mach. It's "EFT warrior" DPS is over 1100. Ohh... ahh!!! - meh. it gets the job done and fast. I am far more impressed at the ships speed - about 620m/s with my skills and fit using an Afterburner.

Talking about AE 4, using an angle ship, is "cheating". Let's look at an ugly mission for a gun boat not a "joke" mission.

Guristas + Serpentis Worlds Collide. This ugly one takes me about an hour to clear including most buildings. (I do them for gigles - don't if you want to just get it done). One side is ECM from hell. The other will squelch your targeting down to around 9km for a while. It's a tough mission set for a gun boat.

All told I've spent about 1.7 billion on my ship's fit. Careful shopping and it could probably be gotten for about 1.5 bill or so. For a hull that runs about 850 mill, that's not too far out price-wise. Especially not for a ship that can crank through some of the toughest missions as fast as it does.

With 800mm AC's, at range, I can literally pop frigates faster than I can lock them. 3.0s rate-of-fire on it.

If I want to take it out of highsec, the biggest change would be a MWD. The speed of this ship with a MWD is staggeringly fast and it's targeting means even a dram is going to find it a challenge getting in range before I get a lock and pop him a couple times - ("EFT" ROF shows 2.98...", not 3.0 but 3 is "close enough" for my book and .071... for my tracking.). My large AC's track better than small artillery with my config so no, I'm not overly "afraid" of such a trip but you're right in one respect, I wouldn't go alone.)

Oh... I do run with hardwire implants and am pretty close to "all 5's" for gunnery use (over 11 mill SP there). Don't expect to see such stats on most pilot's ships.

As stated above, values and costs all depend upon where you are in your career. I like fast but relaxed play so I pay for it.

xFlyingDutchman
Caldari
Blue Moon Salvage Yard
Posted - 2011.06.07 12:36:00 - [15]
 

It seems like this thread just gets re-created every day now.....

Anyhow: Back on topic.

I have flown the Mach and the Tengu. Here are my thoughts.

Mach: Awesome ship. Worth every isk if you can afford it. However, it can be unforgiving if you're not an experienced mission runner. Knowing your missions, spawns, triggers, etc is critical to flying a Mach effectively as your tank won't take the entire room for long. Autocannons are the way to go, and they put out INSANE damage. Also, they project this damage roughy out to the 50-60km range with ease. The mach is fast. Slap a faction burner on it, and watch it speed tank. It's really fun actually.

Now the cons: It's expensive. (If you can't afford it, don't fly it. EVE rule number 1)

Tengu: Also an awesome ship, though for different reasons. It has a stupid-awesome tank. I mean full-blown room aggro on just about any mission. Watch your shields never drop below 97% and laugh at the NPCS. It also does good damage, and out to awesome ranges. (Think over 100km) Kinetic Missiles are your friend, and with good skills, you'll almost never have to use anything else. Once faction items are all considered, it's going to be almost as expensive as a mach, so pick your poison there. Tengus are also customizeable, and move/allign faster.

Cons: They can get ganked. (outside of major trade/mission hubs is most frequent) but not as often as people would like you to believe. Damage is not quite as high as a faction BS. It's a fact of life, accept it and move on.


Also, a word on ganking.

When I started getting into expensive mission ships, like Tengus and CNRs and Finally a Mach, I was always being told something like "Oh, be careful, you'll get ganked!" Or "Don't spend too much, or you'll get ganked!"

Several months later, I've yet to even be yellow-boxed. Even on the 4-4 Undock. -_-

I've still yet to see these roving squads of Faction-Hungry gankers that everyone seems so worried about, although maybe it's something I'm doing. If you enjoy having your ship in one piece, here's a little checklist to follow:
-Don't hang around on the undock.
-Don't hang around on the gate
-When a Ninja warps into your mission, simply leave. (How much did that Tengu cost again?)
-Make insta-undocks if you're super paranoid.
-Don't take it to Lo-sec. (Unless you're geared for it)

Lastly, if you can't afford to fly it (or lose it) then don't. If you're terrified to fly your ship, then why the hell did you buy it?

Just my thoughts.
-xFlyingDutchman

Jenko Raa
Posted - 2011.06.09 11:22:00 - [16]
 

Macha.
/thread

Goose99
Posted - 2011.06.09 11:57:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Jenko Raa
Macha.
/thread


Expensive lossmail. Too many people ignoring the 0.0 part. Use unprobable tengu with interdiction nullifier.

Lady Lard
Caldari
F.R.E.E. Explorer
EVE Animal Control
Posted - 2011.06.09 12:07:00 - [18]
 

Allrighty.

A lot of thingsd said here are true. some are less true.
Tengu is nice, has an epic tank yes, but dps usually won't take you over 600-700 800 yes TOPS.
Both machariel, nightmare and Paladin (what I fly) are over 1000... . Also you want turrets, liek any kind
BUT hybrid's. turrets = insta damage.

Personally then, I prefer an armor tank that is cap stable without having to put an officer/deadspace mod on it.
Mach and Night require more micromanagement in cap/tank since they are shield.
If i could afford a mach though, I'd surely go for one though.

Then, what I am likely to move towards to is the Vargur.
Read the newspapers gentlemen, the vargur, together with the machariel yes, are the mission kings.




Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.06.09 13:42:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Goose99
Originally by: Jenko Raa
Macha.
/thread


Expensive lossmail. Too many people ignoring the 0.0 part. Use unprobable tengu with interdiction nullifier.


Depends on your space, tbh. A Mach can get in to warp in 6 seconds, so if you're watching local and refreshing your scanner, you have your safespots/scanspots/safe POS etc set up, I dont see a problem.with using a mach tbh.


 

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