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Gangster101 PureLove
Posted - 2011.06.05 16:23:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Lady Spank
Imagining a mining barge out there being piloted by 'Gangster101 Purelove' is what makes eve special.



Baby girl ... doesn't matter the size of boat along as it has side rails and a little couchin' for the pushin. Laughing

northwesten
Amarr
Trinity Corporate Services
Terran United Federation
Posted - 2011.06.05 16:28:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Atticus Fynch
Edited by: Atticus Fynch on 05/06/2011 14:06:03

You're doing it all wrong.

I actually enjoy mining for these reasons:

-I can watch TV while mining (often do to keep from falling asleep).
-I can surf the net while mining.
-I hunt for deals on ore/mineral buyers while mining.
-It's a time killer while you wait for a specific skill to complete.
-I like it when my drones blow rats up. Granted, they produce worthless loot, but it's still income. Colect enough of it and melt it down. it also give you a chance to salvage.

-and-

If you really want a challenge, go mine in low/null sec...and be successful at it.

Mining is very passive and requires a passive mindset to enjoy it.

When it gets dull, I go run missions for awhile...then back to mining.

Important: you cant mine for its own sake. You have to have a higher goal. Mining is a means, not an ends.

Based on these mining principles, I think I'll start a mining relgion.Cool


this.

I pretty much do this. if someone has to bot for mining then i hope they get hit by the bus.... I mean plenty of things to do that bot!!

Henry Haphorn
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.05 17:14:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Gangster101 PureLove
Edited by: Gangster101 PureLove on 05/06/2011 14:33:32
So yea, I've been mining the last couple days and I think i've concluded the following: Mining yells and screams to the players, "please create a bot program." At its current function in the game ... someone might as well just make it another passive income like planetary interaction.


zzzzzzzzzzzzzz Props to the players using botsWink


Yet another "ccp-please-make-a-legal-bot-program-for-eve-online" thread. Mark the date and time of this thread and mark it as pointless pro-bot thread #156312444169774.

1. Pro-bot activists claim that bots are used because the mining profession is boring.
2. Pro-bot activists claim that bots are used because missions are boring.
3. They say the same thing to ratting.
4. The same bull**** for the trading profession.
5. The same excuse for planetary interaction.

How about you shut the frakk up and play like a hard-working capsuleer like everyone else? Don't like working hard for your shiny ships? Then prepare to be petitioned and ganked if you are ever caught botting.

Have a nice day.

Lady Spank
Amarr
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2011.06.05 17:32:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Henry Haphorn
Originally by: Gangster101 PureLove
Edited by: Gangster101 PureLove on 05/06/2011 14:33:32
So yea, I've been mining the last couple days and I think i've concluded the following: Mining yells and screams to the players, "please create a bot program." At its current function in the game ... someone might as well just make it another passive income like planetary interaction.


zzzzzzzzzzzzzz Props to the players using botsWink


Yet another "ccp-please-make-a-legal-bot-program-for-eve-online" thread. Mark the date and time of this thread and mark it as pointless pro-bot thread #156312444169774.

1. Pro-bot activists claim that bots are used because the mining profession is boring.
2. Pro-bot activists claim that bots are used because missions are boring.
3. They say the same thing to ratting.
4. The same bull**** for the trading profession.
5. The same excuse for planetary interaction.

How about you shut the frakk up and play like a hard-working capsuleer like everyone else? Don't like working hard for your shiny ships? Then prepare to be petitioned and ganked if you are ever caught botting.

Have a nice day.


I see you are trying to smack someone for thinking mining is boring. Sadly you just make yourself look naive.

First, mining DOES need to be looked at and changed, CCP acknowledge this much.

Second, telling people to put hard-work into the game just makes you sound unimaginative and poor. I don't put any hard-work into making isk in this game and yet I have more than enough to pay for 7 accounts and fly about losing ships as much as I like.

Mr Kidd
Posted - 2011.06.05 17:45:00 - [35]
 

Edited by: Mr Kidd on 05/06/2011 18:18:31
I've been thinking about the "Mining problem" for some time now. And I know not a lot of people agree with my conclusions. However, I do believe that if CCP implemented some form of automation to mining, it would at least alleviate some of the problems with players experimenting with drilling holes in their heads for the stimulation.

On the other hand, as I have suggested this in the past, a number of players iterated how bad of an idea that is. I disagree. The implementation could be made in such a way as to lower the overall output to a fine line somewhere between making a decent profit and totally not worth it. A set of modules and implants could be required to automate different aspects of mining such as reactivating the laser, acquiring new target roids after depletion, cargo offloading, jetcanning, fleet mining, etc, etc, etc. The more automated you want the process, the more slots the modules take up, the less productive you become. This would of course make manual mining by Chinese prisoners extremely profitable since they would be much more productive than their automated counterparts.

Automated detection of illegal botting could then be more reliable when someone tips off the server via the "report a bot" feature soon(tm) to come. The system could query the modules installed, the level of skills trained, calculate probable yield and outside of a given range of expected productivity then alerts CCP hoomons for action. If they're using a 3rd party bot but, not out competing those using the official CCP automation mods and skills, who cares? They're not deflating the market by out competing anyone. The server after comparing their output with typically expected productivity would then just ignore bot reports on that player without ever requiring hoomon interaction.

CCP could then implement stricter rules regarding EULA breaking, rogue, 3rd party botting as many in the community would like to see. And I think it would provide a more effective and definitive means of catching, at least, the mining bots. Market and PVE bots? No clue.

As long as CCP keeps mining mind numbingly boring then mining bots will continue to be a problem. Adding hoops to the process of mining for people to jump through to 'insure' humans are doing the mining will only result in less people actually mining and more intelligent botting software. I really see no way of making mining more interesting, but I do see a lot of ways to make it more of a time sink which it really doesn't need. It's already too much of a time sink for the profit to be made from it.

Inquisitor Bernardo Gui
Amarr
Holy Imperial Inquisition
Posted - 2011.06.05 18:25:00 - [36]
 

Mining should have been a Minmatar only profession.
Only Amarr should be able to fly Orcas to drop the ore into.

Aerethir
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.05 18:38:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Atticus Fynch
Edited by: Atticus Fynch on 05/06/2011 14:06:03

You're doing it all wrong.

I actually enjoy mining for these reasons:

-I can watch TV while mining (often do to keep from falling asleep).
-I can surf the net while mining.
-I hunt for deals on ore/mineral buyers while mining.
-It's a time killer while you wait for a specific skill to complete.
-I like it when my drones blow rats up. Granted, they produce worthless loot, but it's still income. Colect enough of it and melt it down. it also give you a chance to salvage.

-and-

If you really want a challenge, go mine in low/null sec...and be successful at it.

Mining is very passive and requires a passive mindset to enjoy it.

When it gets dull, I go run missions for awhile...then back to mining.

Important: you cant mine for its own sake. You have to have a higher goal. Mining is a means, not an ends.

Based on these mining principles, I think I'll start a mining relgion.Cool


Can I be your first disciple?Razz

Toanfoal
Posted - 2011.06.05 18:44:00 - [38]
 

OP is correct, as anyone who has played this game knows.

Sandbox MMOS desperately need to incorporate bot-like setups for resource harvesting. It should be something that a player designs, sets up, maintains, and can personally visit to enhance but otherwise can largely leave it alone. Make it a source of conflict and you've got a great material to develop both PvE and PvP content.

The current implementation of Eve mining is a 1st generation joke and needs updating.

Irulan Corinno
Caldari
714th SQN - Snowflakes
Posted - 2011.06.05 18:57:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Takseen
To summarise
"Mining is fun, as long as you do something fun to distract you from the mining".


Originally by: Mr Kidd
As long as CCP keeps mining mind numbingly boring then mining bots will continue to be a problem.

Originally by: Toanfoal
The current implementation of Eve mining is a 1st generation joke and needs updating.

Whatever the solution, this can't be denied.

Also:
Originally by: Takseen
I suddenly have this image of a homeless person cackling madly as he scrounges for leftovers in a trashcan, wondering why he's the only one smart enough to figure out this great source of income.

Atticus Fynch
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.05 19:01:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Toanfoal
OP is correct, as anyone who has played this game knows.

Sandbox MMOS desperately need to incorporate bot-like setups for resource harvesting. It should be something that a player designs, sets up, maintains, and can personally visit to enhance but otherwise can largely leave it alone. Make it a source of conflict and you've got a great material to develop both PvE and PvP content.

The current implementation of Eve mining is a 1st generation joke and needs updating.


When given lemons, make lemonade.

I dont see how mining can be improved though. it's pretty straight forward:

1. shoot rocks
2. process or sell rocks for isk
3. goto 1

The "problem" stated here is that it is "boring" which is a matter of opinion. I find PI boring, but Im sure others dont.

So what's to fix and how wold you fix it without including a bot?

Toanfoal
Posted - 2011.06.05 19:19:00 - [41]
 

Edited by: Toanfoal on 05/06/2011 19:20:46
Originally by: Atticus Fynch
So what's to fix and how wold you fix it without including a bot?


Well, it's important to understand that I think the whole system needs to be torn down and re-built in a completely different way. I would include 'bots'. It should absolutely be set up to be mostly automated. (as a sidebar, sandbox MMOs should be at least partially modeled after RTS's... and in your standard RTS, the resource aquisition is NOT active - it's passive. You set it up and it goes... all you need to do is maintain it, tweak it, and protect it)

Players would spend time finding belts, setting up harvesting operations, maintaining and tweaking those operations, setting up protection details, possibly doing missions to increase yields or reduce risk of attack, etc. As the OP mentioned, it would be at least somewhat similar to PI, but whereas PI is supposed to incorporate Dust as the 'x-factor' that makes it more interesting, mining would simply incorporate Eve as the 'x-factor' - both npc pirate factions and other players.

Mineral supply would obviously be adjusted by CCP to compensate for the new system, higher sec space would yield considerably less than lower sec space, corporations would have access to larger modules that provided better yields / defenses, etc.

The current mining system is minimally functional - like I said, it's 1st generation. NO ONE in their right mind actively mines in Eve and does nothing else - it's made to be an afk activity at least, or a botting activity at worst. Of course it should be changed.

Henry Haphorn
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.05 20:27:00 - [42]
 

Edited by: Henry Haphorn on 05/06/2011 20:30:05
Originally by: Lady Spank
Originally by: Henry Haphorn
Originally by: Gangster101 PureLove
Edited by: Gangster101 PureLove on 05/06/2011 14:33:32
So yea, I've been mining the last couple days and I think i've concluded the following: Mining yells and screams to the players, "please create a bot program." At its current function in the game ... someone might as well just make it another passive income like planetary interaction.


zzzzzzzzzzzzzz Props to the players using botsWink


Yet another "ccp-please-make-a-legal-bot-program-for-eve-online" thread. Mark the date and time of this thread and mark it as pointless pro-bot thread #156312444169774.

1. Pro-bot activists claim that bots are used because the mining profession is boring.
2. Pro-bot activists claim that bots are used because missions are boring.
3. They say the same thing to ratting.
4. The same bull**** for the trading profession.
5. The same excuse for planetary interaction.

How about you shut the frakk up and play like a hard-working capsuleer like everyone else? Don't like working hard for your shiny ships? Then prepare to be petitioned and ganked if you are ever caught botting.

Have a nice day.


I see you are trying to smack someone for thinking mining is boring. Sadly you just make yourself look naive.

First, mining DOES need to be looked at and changed, CCP acknowledge this much.

Second, telling people to put hard-work into the game just makes you sound unimaginative and poor. I don't put any hard-work into making isk in this game and yet I have more than enough to pay for 7 accounts and fly about losing ships as much as I like.



I was referring to the OP's message of legalizing bots in Eve Online. Generally, pro-bot activists always claim that mining is a boring profession (which is only a matter of opinion and never a matter of fact). It's the same lame excuse they use alongside the other excuse that people bot because of low mineral prices.

1. If mining is boring, then do something else. Join a pirate-hunting corp and collect bounties from actual player pirates, join a mercenary corp where you get paid to kill someone, or do missions for agents. Why get stuck in mining if you don't find it entertaining.

2. The main reason why mineral prices have dropped is because of botters. They flood the market with too much minerals and thus the prices go down. As a result, ignorant players start using bots to try to compete without realizing that they are just flooding the market even more and thus depreciates the value of the minerals. It's a vicious cycle that goes on.

3. The same can be said for mission bots who flood the market with too much ISK due to the endless npc bounties they collect or minerals they get from the drone rats in 0.0. This causing inflation in some areas (usually on just ship prices). Funny enough, mission botters also reason that missioning is boring.

4. Market botters claim that the only reason they use bots is because of the ridiculous 0.01-isk nonsense that you see in either buy orders or auction contracts where bots are 0.01 isking every 5 minutes. The hard-working player can't even compete against that without suffering lack of sleep.

And now, we have ignorant players who want CCP to "legalize" botting because of the boredom? Even though CCP did think about that in their recent live blog (featuring CCP Sreegs on security), they made it very clear that legalizing bots is out of the question.

Although, I cannot dispute with you that mining needs to be reformed. However, there is no way you can reform the mining profession with bots if bots are the main reason for our troubles. That's like asking a serial bank robber to protect the bank's vault. It's stupid.

Originally by: Toanfoal
NO ONE in their right mind actively mines in Eve and does nothing else


Do you mean mining and doing nothing else while mining? Or did you mean mining one day and pvping in the next day?

Captain Megadeath
Posted - 2011.06.05 20:35:00 - [43]
 

Poasting in yet another "legalize bots" thread. Rolling Eyes

OP needs nuked from orbit. Evil or Very Mad

Khavi Kitamatsu
Posted - 2011.06.05 23:24:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Toanfoal
OP is correct, as anyone who has played this game knows.

Sandbox MMOS desperately need to incorporate bot-like setups for resource harvesting. It should be something that a player designs, sets up, maintains, and can personally visit to enhance but otherwise can largely leave it alone. Make it a source of conflict and you've got a great material to develop both PvE and PvP content.

The current implementation of Eve mining is a 1st generation joke and needs updating.


I agree, look at how SWG preNGE did it. We set our harvesters and walked away. First though we scanned and scanned to find the richest deposit, then we set down our harvesters. We could leave for 12 to 24 hrs as they collected a particular resource. Go by, pick up the resources, continue harvesting until the deposit ran out. Then we would have to go pick them up. Re-scan for new deposits and place them again. That freed us up to do other things. Like PvP, craft, run a city, do missions, explore...

I play primarily as a miner in game on one of my alts, well she is not my alt she is my main. I love to mine, I just hate that CCP has neglected it and not taken the time to make it as important part of the game as the rest. In SWG preNGE one of the most fun professions was the Artisan.

Takseen
Posted - 2011.06.05 23:36:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Khavi Kitamatsu

Sandbox MMOS desperately need to incorporate bot-like setups for resource harvesting. It should be something that a player designs, sets up, maintains, and can personally visit to enhance but otherwise can largely leave it alone.


So it was Planetary Interaction, basically:)
There's really two problems with mining in its current state.

-There's very little benefit to being at the keyboard due to the simplicity of the task. A fix would be to add some optional complexity that significantly(2-4x) increased your yield but required near constant attention and would also be bot proof. Some minigame like scanning, perhaps.

-Its such a trivial task that its possible to automate it entirely via botting. You could either make the above complex task mandatory for mining, which would possibly annoy the casual miner-loving players above to the point that they'd leave. Or just find some kind of mechanic that would be potentially fatal or atleast heavily disruptive to bot miners but trivial to avoid for even an alt-tabbed player. I just have no idea what such a thing would involve.

Akira Samposeppa
Gallente
Arthashastra
Posted - 2011.06.06 00:14:00 - [46]
 

I like to mine sometimes, as some poster before said, often when i have higher goal which i can reach with mining (i want to make myself an orca and than a freighter for example).

Often i manage to watch something or read something while mining, but often not.

I dont understand how people say mining is totaly afk...
Constant alt tabbing to an alt which hauls, than watching your soroundings for rats and can flipers, watching local for potential suicide gankers, storing mined ore in its rightfull place in a station...

Also i often mine on scanned gravimetric sites, so when i finish one site i must make a pause and scan out another one (btw idk is it just me or some grav sites in hs are hard as hell to scann out completely).

Thats just my 2 Nocxium Wink...

Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
Posted - 2011.06.06 00:39:00 - [47]
 

Now... if you think that mining is boring or dull, you should really consider about joining my corporation.

We offer epic exitement to pvp oriented pilots. Very often when we drill rocks in low security areas like 0.6 space, red thingys appear to overview and start shootining our mining drones and mining retriever cruisers. They are really hard to kill with 3 hobgoblin robots and very often we need to escape to station.

We pay well like when we sell our mineralrocks at christmas. I urge you to think about this epic offer. Your pilot career will never be the same.

Selinate
Amarr
Posted - 2011.06.06 02:37:00 - [48]
 

This is why I couldn't care less about folks who are botting.

Well, this and the fact that it's so fun to screw with botters Laughing

Prophet Valkyr
Posted - 2011.06.06 04:11:00 - [49]
 

I have a solution not to good for my carebear self though, cause i like mining and the occasional mission run;

but they should just make pvp enabled all the time with no consequences in high sec.
(i didn't really think much into how this would change everything else in the game)
but it sure would make mining interesting no matter where you do it.

Sgt Sully
Posted - 2011.06.06 05:03:00 - [50]
 

if you do end up making a bot program, make sure to leave all your ore in a jetcan so i can steal it. Think ive made almost 12 mil the past few days from can flipping haha

Weeble Tauri
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.06 05:06:00 - [51]
 

If I'm bored with combat, and a corp-mate is as well (we're all local friends) We'll throw a movie in, and we'll find a dead system (to prevent can flippers) and jet-can mine.

Turns out 8 miner 2's on a Maelstrom is actually entertaining.

sableye
principle of motion
Posted - 2011.06.06 05:33:00 - [52]
 

I like mining the way it is, I don't mine often but when I do its a social experience.

Xercodo
Amarr
Xovoni Directorate
Posted - 2011.06.06 06:08:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Linda Shadowborn
I actually enjoy mining, missions to me is more boring. Click f1.. target new rat.. click f1. bah. to bad mining pays like crap so i dont do it much.

I like putting my feet up, watch the stip miners, chat in corp. Check the roid scanner to see when to shut off the miners so they dont waste time, plot my path through the belt.

To each their own, if you find it boring: do something else. Plenty to do in eve :)


yup, it's kinda like sun bathing. You can feel fresh air, take in the sounds and appreciate nature a bit.

In this case you can admire the local star, and listen to "swoosh" of the strip miners like it's a breeze combined with the waves of the ocean crashing on a cliff.

(If you think about it the white noise that makes up part of the stip miner sound really does sound a little like the white water of the crashing waves)

Jykela
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.06 07:45:00 - [54]
 

Mining is not boring, it is relaxing.

Wa'roun
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.06 08:07:00 - [55]
 

I was thinking earlier in a L4 how given the right mission, and ship setup with drones, it is about the same thing as AFK botting, CCP endorsed.

I know CCP has said they want to do something better, more interactive with mining.

CCP should look at how EverQuest II's crafting system was and is now with active, hands-on reactions to events. It used to be harder which would fit into EO probably. I would say not have stuff kill you like forges used to do in EQ II if you didn't pay attention, but maybe not watching the distribution of incoming ore to the cargohold would damage the cargohold, etc. Have a sort of readout panel you have to react to, managing laser/crystal levels, etc.

James Cardogan
Lonetrek Trade and Industries
Posted - 2011.06.06 08:56:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Atticus Fynch
Edited by: Atticus Fynch on 05/06/2011 14:06:03

You're doing it all wrong.

I actually enjoy mining for these reasons:

-I can watch TV while mining (often do to keep from falling asleep).
-I can surf the net while mining.

-I hunt for deals on ore/mineral buyers while mining.
-It's a time killer while you wait for a specific skill to complete.
-I like it when my drones blow rats up. Granted, they produce worthless loot, but it's still income. Colect enough of it and melt it down. it also give you a chance to salvage.

-and-

If you really want a challenge, go mine in low/null sec...and be successful at it.

Mining is very passive and requires a passive mindset to enjoy it.

When it gets dull, I go run missions for awhile...then back to mining.

Important: you cant mine for its own sake. You have to have a higher goal. Mining is a means, not an ends.

Based on these mining principles, I think I'll start a mining relgion.Cool


Bolded the bits I normally do. I just watch iPlayer. Or screen some Blackadder. Just check back every once in awhile to make sure things are okay.

OverlordY
Posted - 2011.06.06 09:07:00 - [57]
 

EVE is game you play whilst you do / play somthing else.

Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
Posted - 2011.06.06 09:23:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Wa'roun
I was thinking earlier in a L4 how given the right mission, and ship setup with drones, it is about the same thing as AFK botting, CCP endorsed.

Yes too bad F.o.F. missiles often target large collidable objects for no reason - otherwise I could mission (semi-)afk too! Wink

Ahrman Vanaheim
Caldari
Chimaera Combine
Novus Dominatum
Posted - 2011.06.06 12:13:00 - [59]
 

Sadly enough I suppose, I actually enjoy mining at times.

Very relaxing after a lousy day at work. Minimal effort required yet it gives me the chance to read and research or simply chat.

Alternatively, the 40 minutes to fill the hulk with ice is good for a quick nap if i'm in the mood.

Rek Seven
Gallente
Zandathorn Industries
Posted - 2011.06.06 12:28:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Gangster101 PureLove
Edited by: Gangster101 PureLove on 05/06/2011 14:33:32
So yea, I've been mining the last couple days and I think i've concluded the following: Mining yells and screams to the players, "please create a bot program."


Yep, the mining mechanic in this game is a joke considering it's one of the main professions in eve.

CCP should just have done with it a build advanced AI subsystems (bot) into the game to automate mining and give normal players the same advantage as the boters. Confused


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