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Pooh Von'Poof
Posted - 2011.06.05 04:49:00 - [1]
 

I was surprised that no one showed up to the match with the ronin. Then I started wondering why they wouldn't show up and whether ronin got lucky fielding less points or if there was a backroom arrangement possible. Does anyone know what CCP's policy is towards alliances fixing matches? I would imagine it would be difficult to prove or enforce at any rate. Just curious if anyone had thoughts on this.

Sairait
Amarr
CHON
THE R0NIN
Posted - 2011.06.05 06:57:00 - [2]
 

Well, this is EvE where the meta-game is the part of the game, and anything can happen.

Except that we didn't fix the match. Nor did we fix that match in AT4 where Goons brought 109 points and we got another free pass. But then again, we (R0NIN) have been the dev team ever since AT3, so ... Cool

We're happy that we now have a chance to get into the group stage, even though we would have been much happier if the fight happened yesterday - we thought we had a pretty good chance with the handicapped setup, and now the points we got feel a bit undeserved (especially since we had that epic fail of a match in the first round).

So yeah, epic failures and epic miracles happen; I hope we already had our share this tournament, and I certainly hope that we will bring you some real entertainment in our future matches (if we get through).

Now if you'll excuse me, I've been tasked by sending a jug of beer to Iceland, and a herd of sheep to Germany, and I need to attend to it. I wonder what's Shivaja up to. Anyone has some experience with FedExing live sheep abroad ?

/Sairait

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2011.06.05 07:51:00 - [3]
 

IN the last tourney there was a team that had the other team down to one ship. Then they stopped fighting for some reason. suddenly the whole currently winning team went into self destruct.

They told the other team half way through the match they would throw the fight for money. they still went through on points.

anyone have a link to what team did that?

Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.06.05 08:09:00 - [4]
 

RONIN are smart, I think if they had bribed they would've had UFA actually show up for the match with 50 points, no-show is risky since CCP could've decided they don't get handicap points since UFA technically fielded less points than they did. I approve of CCP deciding to give them the handicap points tho, tourney's better with RONIN in it.

I was joking around on the IRC channel about how they should buy the match so their 15.3 bil wouldn't go to waste, so no-show was pretty amusing, but I don't think they actually did it.

M4n1c M1n3r
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2011.06.05 08:58:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: M4n1c M1n3r on 05/06/2011 09:01:14
Quote:
Intentional Handicaps

If a team begins the match with less points value worth of ships than their opponent, and wins the match, they score extra ranking points equal to the difference in the two teams' values.


Regardless of any allegations of match-fixing, the issue remains that the Ronin should surely be entitled to only 50 points plus 25% for the win. There was no handicap, it was a free win and their opponents may well have fielded less than 50 had they bothered to show up. So receiving 50+16+25% strikes me as slightly ridiculous - not to mention we need them to drop below us in the leaderboard :)

Cheiftan
Minmatar
Shinryaku
Posted - 2011.06.05 09:46:00 - [6]
 

Quote:
IN the last tourney there was a team that had the other team down to one ship. Then they stopped fighting for some reason. suddenly the whole currently winning team went into self destruct.

They told the other team half way through the match they would throw the fight for money. they still went through on points.

anyone have a link to what team did that?


The Alliance that did that was Hydra Reloaded, they where fighting Agony Empire.

From what i heard Hydra did this, not for the isk but to get a fight with a lower seeded team to ensure their place in the semi's, however im sure somone will correct me on this.

Sky Airheart
Posted - 2011.06.05 10:04:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Pooh Von'Poof
I was surprised that no one showed up to the match with the ronin. Then I started wondering why they wouldn't show up and whether ronin got lucky fielding less points or if there was a backroom arrangement possible. Does anyone know what CCP's policy is towards alliances fixing matches? I would imagine it would be difficult to prove or enforce at any rate. Just curious if anyone had thoughts on this.


You know with the amount of isk the r0nin own it was quite conceivable that the r0nin would do that. 15.7bn isk to get in with the risk of losing it all. I believed it was fixed. they should have got 50pts with win bouns. Question: What is the point in having reserved teams if they don't play?

Niveon
Posted - 2011.06.05 10:25:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Cheiftan
Hydra did this, not for the isk but to get a fight with a lower seeded team to ensure their place in the semi's
I believe you are correct.

Originally by: Sky Airheart
Question: What is the point in having reserved teams if they don't play?
This!
If the story is that CCP couldn't contact the team captain, why and for how long were they trying to contact a backup captain for this same team rather than moving on to the reserve teams?

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Posted - 2011.06.05 10:55:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Sairait
Well, this is EvE


Actually it is EVE

Random Womble
Minmatar
Emo Rangers
Electric Monkey Overlords
Posted - 2011.06.05 11:08:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Niveon
Originally by: Cheiftan
Hydra did this, not for the isk but to get a fight with a lower seeded team to ensure their place in the semi's
I believe you are correct.

Originally by: Sky Airheart
Question: What is the point in having reserved teams if they don't play?
This!
If the story is that CCP couldn't contact the team captain, why and for how long were they trying to contact a backup captain for this same team rather than moving on to the reserve teams?


Having a reserve team fighting on the second weekend would not work since they wont have fought during the first weekend and giving them the points of the team they would be replacing is kind of unfair as they may (as would have happened here) end up with next to no chance of going through

Palolko Dwimer
CHON
THE R0NIN
Posted - 2011.06.05 12:07:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Palolko Dwimer on 05/06/2011 12:09:09
Originally by: M4n1c M1n3r
Edited by: M4n1c M1n3r on 05/06/2011 09:01:14
Quote:
Intentional Handicaps

If a team begins the match with less points value worth of ships than their opponent, and wins the match, they score extra ranking points equal to the difference in the two teams' values.


Regardless of any allegations of match-fixing, the issue remains that the Ronin should surely be entitled to only 50 points plus 25% for the win. There was no handicap, it was a free win and their opponents may well have fielded less than 50 had they bothered to show up. So receiving 50+16+25% strikes me as slightly ridiculous - not to mention we need them to drop below us in the leaderboard :)


Well, the only reason why it is an issue for you, is because you are 12points behind us. Quite simply you are just trying to increase your chance to get through, and it has nothing to do with Wrong or Right or rules. If by any chance both of us qualify for the next week, will you still be bitc**ng around on forums? I guess not. Maybe you should show some solidarity, and pray to the gods of 'total annihilation death' for your bit of a good fortune. Than you can prove yourself against us in a proper battle in the arena, and not by forum who**ng.

And to answer original question: match fixing, spying, bribing anything you can think of is allowed. This is EvE.

Random Womble
Minmatar
Emo Rangers
Electric Monkey Overlords
Posted - 2011.06.05 12:53:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Palolko Dwimer
Edited by: Palolko Dwimer on 05/06/2011 12:09:09
Originally by: M4n1c M1n3r
Edited by: M4n1c M1n3r on 05/06/2011 09:01:14
Quote:
Intentional Handicaps

If a team begins the match with less points value worth of ships than their opponent, and wins the match, they score extra ranking points equal to the difference in the two teams' values.


Regardless of any allegations of match-fixing, the issue remains that the Ronin should surely be entitled to only 50 points plus 25% for the win. There was no handicap, it was a free win and their opponents may well have fielded less than 50 had they bothered to show up. So receiving 50+16+25% strikes me as slightly ridiculous - not to mention we need them to drop below us in the leaderboard :)


Well, the only reason why it is an issue for you, is because you are 12points behind us. Quite simply you are just trying to increase your chance to get through, and it has nothing to do with Wrong or Right or rules. If by any chance both of us qualify for the next week, will you still be bitc**ng around on forums? I guess not. Maybe you should show some solidarity, and pray to the gods of 'total annihilation death' for your bit of a good fortune. Than you can prove yourself against us in a proper battle in the arena, and not by forum who**ng.

And to answer original question: match fixing, spying, bribing anything you can think of is allowed. This is EvE.


TBH it was a fair point and given the fact that the team captain was not on for UNIT the most likely outcome had they managed to sc**** up a team would have been one of a lower than 50 point value. the fact that you sound so bitter hints that you may be concerned that things may be changed and if that was the case you guys only have yourselves to blame its not the RvB teams fault that you guys messed up in the first fight.

Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.06.05 13:32:00 - [13]
 

The rules don't really adequately cover a situation like this, so there is no right or wrong way to rule on it.
CCP made a judgement call and in this case it's the same one I would've made.

Random Womble
Minmatar
Emo Rangers
Electric Monkey Overlords
Posted - 2011.06.05 13:51:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Random Womble on 05/06/2011 13:57:07
Edited by: Random Womble on 05/06/2011 13:52:36
Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk
The rules don't really adequately cover a situation like this, so there is no right or wrong way to rule on it.
CCP made a judgement call and in this case it's the same one I would've made.


Im not fussed with the call either way even if we were to miss out because of it as that would be our fault not CCPs however interestingly arguably the rules do cover it and not in the way its enforced this time.

Quote:
During Pre-Qualifying rounds, teams have a total of 50 points to select ships. There is no minimum number of pilots or points a team needs to field during the pre-qualifiers.


So technically by the letter of the law UNIT fielded a team of 0 points giving them a 50 point handicap. ok by fielding nothing they automatically lost but by the letter of the rules R0nin should not be getting the handicap bonus. Admittedly the spirit of the rules may well mean things get interpreted differently.

Edit: due to typing bane not r0nin Embarassed
Edit 2: Also slightly ironic Tyrrax that you had made a point about that particular rule in relation to the handicap thing before the tourney started admittedly not with this particular incident in mind.

Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.06.05 14:30:00 - [15]
 

Yeah you can choose to read the rules that way, however the fact is one of the teams didn't show up for their match, which I for one consider to be different from fielding zero points..

Now if R0NIN had shown up with a single destroyer, and other team had been a no-show I wouldn't give them handicap points (and I'm pretty sure the dev ruling would've been different since this kinda situation simply isn't covered properly by the rules and is simply a judgement call.)

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Posted - 2011.06.05 14:59:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Palolko Dwimer
This is EvE.


Originally by: Misanth
Originally by: Sairait
Well, this is EvE


Actually it is EVE

Motty 007
Percussive Diplomacy
The Phoenix. Consortium
Posted - 2011.06.05 17:19:00 - [17]
 

Just noticed Tyraxx is now PL ? How did that happen

Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.06.05 17:22:00 - [18]
 

I was already PL before the tournament, I just left temporarily to field a Dystopia team, didn't make it in, rejoined.

Motty 007
Percussive Diplomacy
The Phoenix. Consortium
Posted - 2011.06.05 17:33:00 - [19]
 

GL later on then if you are in for PL. Sorry about Dystopia not getting in, always nice to see different setups.

Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.06.05 17:56:00 - [20]
 

can't take part ;[

Random Womble
Minmatar
Emo Rangers
Electric Monkey Overlords
Posted - 2011.06.05 21:24:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Random Womble
[

Im not fussed with the call either way even if we were to miss out because of it as that would be our fault not CCPs however interestingly arguably the rules do cover it and not in the way its enforced this time.




I had a feeling those words might come back to bite me

Sameron
Posted - 2011.06.08 00:27:00 - [22]
 

mothermoon you are so completely clueless on all topics your posts make my head hurt. i hope for your sake that you are a troll, otherwise...... just do yourself a favor and sit out a few threads. btw that was hydra reloaded and if you were paying attention to the extenuating circumstances self destructing at that point was a very clever strategic move. i wouldnt expect a mouthbreather to understand the theory and finer strategies employed by the great pvp artists though. there is a reason why people like you are all over the forums and nowhere to be found on killboards.
another subject matter expert


 

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