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Atticus Fynch
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.05 02:22:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Snake Scofield
I thought LP points were just a side bonus. A little something to make you happy. Kind of like I did the mission for the isk but I also got this.

Maybe they should change the mission text to:

Reward : 5million isk + 1 million isk worth of LP.

Reward : 4000 LP, oh and you also get some isk.


OR

Have you choose between an isk reward or an LP amount reward, but not both.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2011.06.05 02:22:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Atticus Fynch
Originally by: Snake Scofield
I thought LP points were just a side bonus. A little something to make you happy. Kind of like I did the mission for the isk but I also got this.

Maybe they should change the mission text to:

Reward : 5million isk + 1 million isk worth of LP.

Reward : 4000 LP, oh and you also get some isk.


OR

Have you choose between an isk reward or an LP amount reward, but not both.


No. Just no.

Roh Voleto
Posted - 2011.06.05 02:33:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Tonto Auri

Do I hear a "Gimme free EVE time for my relaxed mission running" hum in the back of your ceering words?


Nah, I'm fine. TBH (And ignoring the whole MT rainbow-tree): I would like to see a massive rebalancing of EVE's ISK and wealth sources, Including the ones I end up exploiting by playing the game the way I enjoy it, with the goal of making wealth, and the effort spent gaining it, more meaningful. Damn, do you remember how awesome it was to earn your first five million? Or losing your fist Rifter? I wish the game could be like this a little longer.




Originally by: Akita T
So then, why not scrap the whole LP concept and ask for the MISSIONS to simply hand you an item as bonus instead ?



Indeed, why not? That would be another balancing option. Why do we need another, NPC only, currency?

Cole Phelps
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.06.05 02:42:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Roh Voleto

Originally by: Akita T
So then, why not scrap the whole LP concept and ask for the MISSIONS to simply hand you an item as bonus instead ?



Indeed, why not? That would be another balancing option. Why do we need another, NPC only, currency?



I agree. No need to make it anymore complicated than that. That sounds more like a reward to me. Getting ISK or LP as a "reward" is actually nothing more than getting your salary for doing your job, which happens to be running missions for a corporation.

Atticus Fynch
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.05 02:52:00 - [35]
 

OK, so what kind of mission would you have to complete for say, a Navy Megathron as a reward?

Kill a blob of 25,000 NPC pirates maybe?

Cole Phelps
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.06.05 02:55:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Atticus Fynch
OK, so what kind of mission would you have to complete for say, a Navy Megathron as a reward?

Kill a blob of 25,000 NPC pirates maybe?


You can accumulate LP in some other way than make it a currency. Like "Do 10 level 4 missions for us, and you get a Navy Megathron" Wink

Roh Voleto
Posted - 2011.06.05 02:56:00 - [37]
 

Edited by: Roh Voleto on 05/06/2011 02:56:14
Originally by: Atticus Fynch
OK, so what kind of mission would you have to complete for say, a Navy Megathron as a reward?

Kill a blob of 25,000 NPC pirates maybe?


The game does not have a good track record in this regard, but how about a lottery? Have you run more than 250 missions for the Federation? Congratulations! You qualify for the big Megathron lottery.

Atticus Fynch
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.05 02:56:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Cole Phelps
Originally by: Atticus Fynch
OK, so what kind of mission would you have to complete for say, a Navy Megathron as a reward?

Kill a blob of 25,000 NPC pirates maybe?


You can accumulate LP in some other way than make it a currency. Like "Do 10 level 4 missions for us, and you get a Navy Megathron" Wink


OK, I see how that might work.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2011.06.05 02:58:00 - [39]
 

I hope you people are trolling.

Atticus Fynch
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.05 03:00:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren
I hope you people are trolling.


Actually Im just killing time here waiting for a skill to finish up so i can fly my new shiny.Wink

Cole Phelps
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.06.05 03:09:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren
I hope you people are trolling.


Elaborate please.

stoicfaux
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.05 03:14:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Cole Phelps

You can accumulate LP in some other way than make it a currency. Like "Do 10 level 4 missions for us, and you get a Navy Megathron" Wink


Not grindy and/or Skinner box-ish enough. Make it the reward of a random storyline mission.


Roh Voleto
Posted - 2011.06.05 03:21:00 - [43]
 

Edited by: Roh Voleto on 05/06/2011 03:23:21
Giving it one last thought:

How about getting rid of the whole loyalty concept? Why not have faction rats drop faction items and BPC's? It would make anti faction missions more attractive, and changing the drop rates would offer a subtle way to adjust mission rewards.

Edit: Random generic implants could stay a/become the only reward for storyline mission.

Baljos Arnjak
Posted - 2011.06.05 03:31:00 - [44]
 

Something that I haven't seen mentioned here is the utility of the items. A lot of items are close to the same or worse than T2 items, and yet they cost a heck of a lot more. Something to think about anyway.

Baljos Arnjak
Posted - 2011.06.05 03:45:00 - [45]
 

Edited by: Baljos Arnjak on 05/06/2011 03:47:06
Originally by: Roh Voleto
Edited by: Roh Voleto on 05/06/2011 03:23:21
Giving it one last thought:

How about getting rid of the whole loyalty concept? Why not have faction rats drop faction items and BPC's? It would make anti faction missions more attractive, and changing the drop rates would offer a subtle way to adjust mission rewards.

Edit: Random generic implants could stay a/become the only reward for storyline mission.


I actually really like that idea. I always thought that anti-faction mission should be more meaningful, and thus more rewarding. It fits in good with the lore too.

BUT it's wouldn't make a whole lot of sense to have enemy faction NPC's dropping mods that belong to the faction you're running for. Say you kill a Imperial Navy Whatever and get a Republic Fleet Gyro....what? It would cause a massive upheaval, lol. Not that that's a bad thing, it would finally give me a reason to get my Amarr standings above -10.Laughing

Roh Voleto
Posted - 2011.06.05 03:56:00 - [46]
 

That's the idea. Minmatar drop Republic Fleet stuff, Amarr drop Imperial Navy stuff.

Cpt Fina
Red Dwarf Mining Corporation
space weaponry and trade
Posted - 2011.06.05 05:43:00 - [47]
 

As far as I understand this phenomenon isn't unique. In some cases manufacturing higher end products will actually have negative absolute yield...

Not a problem, it's just how people value their time and how they approach eve as work or as something fun Very Happy

0oO0oOoOo0o
Posted - 2011.06.05 05:55:00 - [48]
 

The problem meantioned by the OP is not "caused because of how the market works". The reason behind it is a diffrent source for that items, so that the market is split, when it comes to the supply. There are for example some implants, that cost 3mil isk on the market, because they are looted frequently or are rewards from missions, that are spammed by farmers. If you buy that implant from the LP store, you pay 10mil isk + LP. This is such a case, as mentioned by OP, and this indeed should be fixed, as this offers pollute the already overstuffed LP store needlessly. Either by removing this items from LP store, by adjusting the prices or by removing the other sources, which provide those items.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.06.05 08:10:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Atticus Fynch
OK, so you run missions for your favorite agent. Rack up the loyalty points then realize that some items (the ones that require isk + LP)can be purchased cheaper on the market than in the LP store even with the "reduced" loyalty point store price.

Defeats the purpose of getting "rewarded" by acquiring loyaty points doesnt it?

Loyalty point store prices should then be dynamic and reflect market trends.

Or is there something I'm missing?


Nope, you're spot on. At least 90% of the offers in every LP store are worthless (probably an underestimate).

Sader Rykane
Amarr
The Dark Space Initiative
Revival Of The Talocan Empire
Posted - 2011.06.05 08:19:00 - [50]
 

Am I the only person who cared so little about their LP that they effectively just gave them away to people for free?

I've honestly never considered LP's to be worth anything, just a quick way to replace implants if I got podded or something.

I may or may not have 100-200k atm, honestly I really don't know or care.


Glyken Touchon
Gallente
Independent Alchemists
Posted - 2011.06.05 09:48:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Here's a hint : if the LP store ISK cost is above the market ISK sales price, you should really not click to purchase it.
It doesn't really get much easier than that.
This covers all complaints about negative LP value...
Why would you buy it with LP?

I would like to see smaller LP stores, with more variation between corps in the same faction.

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.05 10:05:00 - [52]
 



Due to the mission agent changes, there will be even MORE LP available and thus MORE faction items on the market now exhabarating the position even more.

I have said for ages the LP store has to be like the Insurance changes, dynamic to be cheaper than the market.

Look at +4 implants on the LP store, its cheaper to get them on the market and keep the LP for larger price LP items.


Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.06.05 10:05:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Glyken Touchon
Originally by: Akita T
Here's a hint : if the LP store ISK cost is above the market ISK sales price, you should really not click to purchase it.
It doesn't really get much easier than that.
This covers all complaints about negative LP value...
Why would you buy it with LP?

I would like to see smaller LP stores, with more variation between corps in the same faction.


The issue is a tiny bit more complex than LOL DONT BUY OVERPRICED STUFF U DUMB HEAD

There is stuff in the LP store that might have utility if the pricing on it could be arrived at dynamically, but as it stands, no-one is ever going to buy stuff like the -3% cap use on shield transfer modules implants when they're priced at exactly the same as every other 3% hardwiring.

Additionally, if the LP store prices were made dynamic on a per-corp basis, rather than globally, that would be a great way to spread out mission runners and get the more obscure NPC corp agents some use. Rather than just have 80% of MRs use the navy corps.

Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
Posted - 2011.06.05 10:06:00 - [54]
 

Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 05/06/2011 10:48:56
Originally by: Glyken Touchon
Originally by: Akita T
Here's a hint : if the LP store ISK cost is above the market ISK sales price, you should really not click to purchase it.
It doesn't really get much easier than that.
This covers all complaints about negative LP value...
Why would you buy it with LP?

I would like to see smaller LP stores, with more variation between corps in the same faction.

That would be very nice (as a lot of stores have nothing special and faction stores like Khanid - for instance a Khanid version of the Navy Omen - or Thukker should have some pretty unique items) and I also totally agree with Akita.

What's currently the case is that:
1) tags are so expensive that for a lot of items buying a deadspace version is even cheaper than buying just the tags
2) over 50% of the LP store items are so inferior that hardly anyone except naive newbs ever buys them
3) only hardwires (that don't require tags) always keep their value, the better ones over 1.25 mil/1k LP
4) as Miilla said, things like +4 implants are available on such a grand scale that they're far cheaper on the market than the LP store

Now the tag values are a variable here and those prices may vary but for the inferior modules CCP really should find an alternative. Things like Gallente armor stuff or Minmatar missile stuff, does anyone buy those at all?

Well I guess CCP will take another look at it in 2014:

Originally by: CCP Hammer
Originally by: Jennifer Starling
8. LP rewards: are the LP stores being fixed? I mean: you can get deadspace quality stuff that's cheaper than LP store items so no-one in his/her right mind ever gets that stuff, and there's a lot of that kind around.

>> 8. CCP Tallest was looking at looking at it but there are no definite short term plans for changes.

Merdaneth
Amarr
Defensores Fidei
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.05 10:45:00 - [55]
 

The problem with the loyalty point store is simple: it has fixed prices.

If the number of LP and tags rerquired would fluctuate according to demand, then it would be a proper store where market mechanics are at work.

A store that never adjusts it prices will eventually run out of customers for many items. Only idiot store owners would offer wares at prices customer don't want to pay.

If an LP store item isn't bought, its price should slowly drop until it is sold again. Conversely, if it is sold a lot, its price should rise.

Glyken Touchon
Gallente
Independent Alchemists
Posted - 2011.06.05 10:50:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Glyken Touchon

I would like to see smaller LP stores, with more variation between corps in the same faction.


The issue is a tiny bit more complex than LOL DONT BUY OVERPRICED STUFF U DUMB HEAD

There is stuff in the LP store that might have utility if the pricing on it could be arrived at dynamically, but as it stands, no-one is ever going to buy stuff like the -3% cap use on shield transfer modules implants when they're priced at exactly the same as every other 3% hardwiring.

Additionally, if the LP store prices were made dynamic on a per-corp basis, rather than globally, that would be a great way to spread out mission runners and get the more obscure NPC corp agents some use. Rather than just have 80% of MRs use the navy corps.

I would like to see both item availability and price varied more between corps. If dynamic agent quality is on the cards (heres hoping the recent change was a step towards that), then the market/contract prices should adjust so long as each corp has it's own niche and the aren't too many "global" items.

Glyken Touchon
Gallente
Independent Alchemists
Posted - 2011.06.05 10:57:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Merdaneth
If an LP store item isn't bought, its price should slowly drop until it is sold again. Conversely, if it is sold a lot, its price should rise.

If dynamic pricing were introduced, this is the way it should be done- no comparing to the market, just base it on sales.

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.05 11:02:00 - [58]
 

Edited by: Miilla on 05/06/2011 11:04:00

What if they change the LP store to only use AURUM to further help the sinking of PLEX?




Scary thought isn't it.

Sometime's its better not to say anything to draw attention to it :)



Mr LaForge
Posted - 2011.06.05 11:08:00 - [59]
 

All LP stores need to be rebalanced and also start using the useless DNA and useless tags you get on mission drops from the NPCs. I have a collection of em from killing ZAZZ.

Also thee are too many implants in the LP store. Some of them (or all of them) should be moved to PI to be created there. Perhaps only leaving the learning implants in the LP store. Bring on the +6 and +7 implants too in the concord store. As it stands now, most of the LP stores have mostly useless things to buy.

Darth Emu Ohmiras
Posted - 2011.06.05 11:10:00 - [60]
 

I pray this all trolling, or some of you guys are just incredibly, incredibly, incredibly stupid.

If the price bothers you, then cash out your LP on profitable ventures and buy the Navy Mega from somebody who put it on the market. If somebody wants to put a faction hull on the market for say 200 ISK per LP, let him.


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