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Soryn Kael
Chaos From Order
Posted - 2011.06.04 22:33:00 - [1]
 

For the 32 teams that have finished playing:

1-1 Teams:
Babylon 5: 87.5
Black Legion: 85.75
Sev3rance: 83
The Ronin: 82.5
Get Off My Lawn: 81.5
RvB Red Federation: 70.5
The Star Fraction: 64.5
Legion of the Damned: 62.5
Dark Taboo: 62.5

Cut Line (These are 100% eliminated on points)

Northern Coalition.: 61.25
Majesta Empire: 56.5
Transmission Lost: 55
RvB Blue Republic: 34.5
Dead on Arrival: 28.25
Controlled Chaos: 17.5
Corcoran State: 7.5

0-2 Teams (eliminated):
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive: 45
Space Police: 45
Goonswarm: 34
Conglomeration of Ill Advised Ideas: 22
Capital Punishment: 21
Mos Vape Heavy Industries: 19.5
Atlas.: 18
Smacked Alliance: 12
Clockwork Pineapple: 11
Morsus Mihi: 4
Test Alliance Please Ignore: 2
Reverberation Project: 2
United Front Alliance: 0
Adeptus Arbites: 0
Chain of Chaos: 0
Waterboard: 0

Random Womble
Minmatar
Emo Rangers
Electric Monkey Overlords
Posted - 2011.06.04 22:38:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Random Womble on 04/06/2011 22:39:47
Originally by: Soryn Kael
For the 32 teams that have finished playing:

1-1 Teams:
Babylon 5: 87.5
Black Legion: 85.75
Sev3rance: 83
The Ronin: 82.5
Get Off My Lawn: 81.5
RvB Red Federation: 70.5
The Star Fraction: 64.5
Legion of the Damned: 62.5
Dark Taboo: 62.5

Cut Line (These are 100% eliminated on points)

Northern Coalition.: 61.25
Majesta Empire: 56.5
Transmission Lost: 55
RvB Blue Republic: 34.5
Dead on Arrival: 28.25
Controlled Chaos: 17.5
Corcoran State: 7.5

0-2 Teams (eliminated):
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive: 45
Space Police: 45
Goonswarm: 34
Conglomeration of Ill Advised Ideas: 22
Capital Punishment: 21
Mos Vape Heavy Industries: 19.5
Atlas.: 18
Smacked Alliance: 12
Clockwork Pineapple: 11
Morsus Mihi: 4
Test Alliance Please Ignore: 2
Reverberation Project: 2
United Front Alliance: 0
Adeptus Arbites: 0
Chain of Chaos: 0
Waterboard: 0


Legion and Dark are also both definitely out since even if all the other fights tomorrow are a whitewash all the teams currently on 62.5 points will be ranked higher as rankings are based on the rank of the last team you faced which in the case of the people playing tomorrow who lose it will be a team in the top 16. where as in the case of Legion and dark it will be a team in the bottom 16.

M4n1c M1n3r
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2011.06.04 23:06:00 - [3]
 

Thanks for posting this. I'm struggling to get to grips with the handicap/ bonus points. Is it points fielded less than the 50 maximum allowed, OR total points fielded less than your opponent (hence handicap)? I'm particularly interested in how this will be applied in the case of The Ronin. Since they fielded 34 points against a team that didn't show, would they get (50 + 16) x 1.25 OR since they had no opponents would they get just the 50 x 1.25? Since they did not field less points than their oppponents, I would think that they would be entitled to the latter, but then I do have a vested interest in them dropping down a few places :)

Quote:
Intentional Handicaps

If a team begins the match with less points value worth of ships than their opponent, and wins the match, they score extra ranking points equal to the difference in the two teams' values.

Soryn Kael
Chaos From Order
Posted - 2011.06.04 23:07:00 - [4]
 

yeah.. I probably have those wrong.. but I think that's the only team it affects..

I was in a hurry and not paying that much attention

Palolko Dwimer
CHON
THE R0NIN
Posted - 2011.06.05 00:09:00 - [5]
 

Ronin points are correct. GM ruled, that if they don't turn up, it count's as if they fielded 50points. Besides, it was not our fault, so no point in harming team, that actually turns up.

Random Womble
Minmatar
Emo Rangers
Electric Monkey Overlords
Posted - 2011.06.05 00:45:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: M4n1c M1n3r
Thanks for posting this. I'm struggling to get to grips with the handicap/ bonus points. Is it points fielded less than the 50 maximum allowed, OR total points fielded less than your opponent (hence handicap)? I'm particularly interested in how this will be applied in the case of The Ronin. Since they fielded 34 points against a team that didn't show, would they get (50 + 16) x 1.25 OR since they had no opponents would they get just the 50 x 1.25? Since they did not field less points than their oppponents, I would think that they would be entitled to the latter, but then I do have a vested interest in them dropping down a few places :)

Quote:
Intentional Handicaps

If a team begins the match with less points value worth of ships than their opponent, and wins the match, they score extra ranking points equal to the difference in the two teams' values.



I believe CCP at the moment are giving the ronin 82.5 from what was said on IRC however my personal understanding of the rules has been as you seem to have it. That it should be the difference in points fielded between the 2 teams not between what is fielded and the maximum. In the last tournament i believe the rule was applied in the first fashion (difference of points between the 2 teams).

steave435
Caldari
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.06.05 00:49:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Random Womble
Edited by: Random Womble on 04/06/2011 22:39:47
Originally by: Soryn Kael
For the 32 teams that have finished playing:

1-1 Teams:
Babylon 5: 87.5
Black Legion: 85.75
Sev3rance: 83
The Ronin: 82.5
Get Off My Lawn: 81.5
RvB Red Federation: 70.5
The Star Fraction: 64.5
Legion of the Damned: 62.5
Dark Taboo: 62.5

Cut Line (These are 100% eliminated on points)

Northern Coalition.: 61.25
Majesta Empire: 56.5
Transmission Lost: 55
RvB Blue Republic: 34.5
Dead on Arrival: 28.25
Controlled Chaos: 17.5
Corcoran State: 7.5

0-2 Teams (eliminated):
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive: 45
Space Police: 45
Goonswarm: 34
Conglomeration of Ill Advised Ideas: 22
Capital Punishment: 21
Mos Vape Heavy Industries: 19.5
Atlas.: 18
Smacked Alliance: 12
Clockwork Pineapple: 11
Morsus Mihi: 4
Test Alliance Please Ignore: 2
Reverberation Project: 2
United Front Alliance: 0
Adeptus Arbites: 0
Chain of Chaos: 0
Waterboard: 0


Legion and Dark are also both definitely out since even if all the other fights tomorrow are a whitewash all the teams currently on 62.5 points will be ranked higher as rankings are based on the rank of the last team you faced which in the case of the people playing tomorrow who lose it will be a team in the top 16. where as in the case of Legion and dark it will be a team in the bottom 16.

Quote:
1. If the teams disputing rank have fought each other at any point, the winner is higher.
2. The current ranking (W/L, then points) of the last team that you defeated. Higher is better.
3. The current ranking of the last team that defeated you. Again, higher is better.

The result of #2 will be the same since the winners today fought someone that will end up in the last 16 positions, but #1 could save them.

Random Womble
Minmatar
Emo Rangers
Electric Monkey Overlords
Posted - 2011.06.05 01:12:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Random Womble on 05/06/2011 01:22:12
Edited by: Random Womble on 05/06/2011 01:17:19
Edited by: Random Womble on 05/06/2011 01:15:13
Edited by: Random Womble on 05/06/2011 01:14:19
Originally by: steave435
Originally by: Random Womble
Edited by: Random Womble on 04/06/2011 22:39:47
Originally by: Soryn Kael
For the 32 teams that have finished playing:

1-1 Teams:
Babylon 5: 87.5
Black Legion: 85.75
Sev3rance: 83
The Ronin: 82.5
Get Off My Lawn: 81.5
RvB Red Federation: 70.5
The Star Fraction: 64.5
Legion of the Damned: 62.5
Dark Taboo: 62.5

Cut Line (These are 100% eliminated on points)

Northern Coalition.: 61.25
Majesta Empire: 56.5
Transmission Lost: 55
RvB Blue Republic: 34.5
Dead on Arrival: 28.25
Controlled Chaos: 17.5
Corcoran State: 7.5

0-2 Teams (eliminated):
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive: 45
Space Police: 45
Goonswarm: 34
Conglomeration of Ill Advised Ideas: 22
Capital Punishment: 21
Mos Vape Heavy Industries: 19.5
Atlas.: 18
Smacked Alliance: 12
Clockwork Pineapple: 11
Morsus Mihi: 4
Test Alliance Please Ignore: 2
Reverberation Project: 2
United Front Alliance: 0
Adeptus Arbites: 0
Chain of Chaos: 0
Waterboard: 0


Legion and Dark are also both definitely out since even if all the other fights tomorrow are a whitewash all the teams currently on 62.5 points will be ranked higher as rankings are based on the rank of the last team you faced which in the case of the people playing tomorrow who lose it will be a team in the top 16. where as in the case of Legion and dark it will be a team in the bottom 16.

Quote:
1. If the teams disputing rank have fought each other at any point, the winner is higher.
2. The current ranking (W/L, then points) of the last team that you defeated. Higher is better.
3. The current ranking of the last team that defeated you. Again, higher is better.

The result of #2 will be the same since the winners today fought someone that will end up in the last 16 positions, but #1 could save them.


16 teams that fight tomorrow will definitely go through that leaves 12 slots for the rest legion and dark are already behind 7 teams so at most that leave 5 slots. assuming all fights tomorrow are whitewashes there would be one team on 63.75 anyway leaving 4 slots and a minimum of 12 teams that will have fought tomorrow on 62.5 points. While rule 1 might save them against 1 team it would not against the other 11.
now unless there is some weird way the rules would work in such circumstances then they are definitely out.

I will admit i did remember rules 2 and 3 in the wrong order and normally im so pedantic about getting such things right i feel slightly ashamed. However the result is the same.

Edit: I should mention that in the event that everyone ties tomorrow with no losses. Since so many teams had equal points at both ends of the table after the first round more than 4 of the teams already on 62.5 points last defeated opponents are definitely not in the bottom 16 so even that wont be a letoff for the 2 teams that made it to 62.5 today

M4n1c M1n3r
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2011.06.05 08:52:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Palolko Dwimer
Ronin points are correct. GM ruled, that if they don't turn up, it count's as if they fielded 50points. Besides, it was not our fault, so no point in harming team, that actually turns up.


Well with all due respect, that's bordering on the ridiculous. There was no guarantee that your opponents were going to field 50 points for you to take ANY handicap bonus anyway and so you should receive only the 50 points for the win. But if it's been ruled on, then it's been ruled on, CCP know best...

Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.06.05 13:36:00 - [10]
 

Of course they don't know best, THAT is ridiculous. But in cases like this where rules don't really adequately cover the situation it comes down to a judgement call, and they're in charge.

wolfhound490
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.05 19:14:00 - [11]
 

I've made a google docs spreadsheet with (afaik) the current standings of teams, including how many matches they have been in so far.

https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlaKdJ74ickgdG4yR1FYdnhBaHRxUFlWVEJLQVpLSGc&hl=en_GB&authkey=CK_pmOMK

KayTwoEx
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas.
Posted - 2011.06.05 21:48:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: wolfhound490
I've made a google docs spreadsheet with (afaik) the current standings of teams, including how many matches they have been in so far.

https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlaKdJ74ickgdG4yR1FYdnhBaHRxUFlWVEJLQVpLSGc&hl=en_GB&authkey=CK_pmOMK

Electric Monkey Overlord will move on. Their last match was against The G0dfathers which have a higher rank than RvB - Red Federation's last enemy Test Alliance Please Ignore.

Motty 007
Percussive Diplomacy
The Phoenix. Consortium
Posted - 2011.06.05 21:52:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Motty 007 on 05/06/2011 21:54:41
It is not the last team you played - it is the last team you defeated - check the rules.....

oops - i read them again

Hope that R0NIN score is corrected

KayTwoEx
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas.
Posted - 2011.06.05 21:53:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Motty 007
It is not the last team you played - it is the last team you defeated - check the rules.....!

Ok, then it's still Electric Monkey Overlord. The G0dfathers > Perihelion Alliance

kloma
Red Federation
Posted - 2011.06.05 21:54:00 - [15]
 

which is a tie motty, so we move onto point 3..the current ranking of the team who last defeated you.

wolfhound490
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.05 22:47:00 - [16]
 

I don't know if you move on to the last team that defeated you (point 3) if it's a tie for the teams you defeated (point 2).

It might be the case that it was intended to look at the team that last defeated you (point 3) only if the last team you defeated is the same team that the team you're drawing with defeated (in point 2).

In the case of RvB vs EMO.


They draw on point 1 - Same number of wins and points.

On point two RvB last defeated Test Alliance Please Ignore. EMO last defeated Reverberation Project.

So in the case of Test vs Reverb.

They draw on point 1 - Same number of wins and points.

Point 2 is moot, neither team defeated another team.

Point 3 is the current ranking of the last team that defeated them, for Test that is RvB for Reverb that is Concoran state.
Since RvB is ranked higher than Concoran, that means that Test gets ranked higher than Reverb.

Conclusion

If Test is ranked higher than Reverb, then RvB go through.

Alternatively if they didn't intend the rules to be recursive, then EMO will go through on point 3 as G0drathers (the team that defeated EMO) outrank Perihelion (the team that defeated RvB)


kloma
Red Federation
Posted - 2011.06.05 22:50:00 - [17]
 

i like the version where reds go through, this unbiased opinion is probably unbiased.

you do make a good point tho, but it hurt my head.

Random Womble
Minmatar
Emo Rangers
Electric Monkey Overlords
Posted - 2011.06.05 23:00:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: kloma
i like the version where reds go through, this unbiased opinion is probably unbiased.

you do make a good point tho, but it hurt my head.


The ways the rules are written is open to dual interpretation so which ever side loses out will end up feel hard done by.

I suspect things might be rewritten next year

Helios Diaz
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2011.06.05 23:10:00 - [19]
 

A solution:

Rifters.
Dual at 12:00 eve time.

Oh... sorry, that would give Red Fed a massive advantage.


 

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