open All Channels
seplocked Ships and Modules
blankseplocked 100% Jam chance with ECM
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Author Topic

Winking Browneye
Posted - 2011.06.02 16:06:00 - [1]
 

Hi all,

Quick question (which I did search for, but didn't find a definitive answer):

If I have a ship with an ECM module which has a jamming strength Greater than the target ships sensor strength, will I have a 100% Jam chance (No failed Jams)?

Example:

Max Skilled Griffon with a Ladar ECM and 2x rigs (Ladar Jam strength 9.4ish) vs Rifter (Ladar strength 8).

9.4/8 is higher than 1.0. So is thata guaranteed 100% perma jam?

Thanks,

Winker

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.06.02 16:08:00 - [2]
 

Yes provided you are within the optimal range of the jammer. If you're in falloff then its not guaranteed.

King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
Posted - 2011.06.02 21:54:00 - [3]
 

And this ladies and gentlemen, is why ECM is overpowered. It's well balanced vs BS's, but anything smaller will be permajammed with absolute certainty by a falcon and anything cruiser down will be permajammed by a 5M isk t2 fitted griffon.

Archbeholder
Posted - 2011.06.02 22:20:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: King Rothgar
And this ladies and gentlemen, is why ECM is overpowered. It's well balanced vs BS's, but anything smaller will be permajammed with absolute certainty by a falcon and anything cruiser down will be permajammed by a 5M isk t2 fitted griffon.

It's not like said griffin can harm you in any way.

amarralt55
Posted - 2011.06.02 23:31:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Archbeholder
Originally by: King Rothgar
And this ladies and gentlemen, is why ECM is overpowered. It's well balanced vs BS's, but anything smaller will be permajammed with absolute certainty by a falcon and anything cruiser down will be permajammed by a 5M isk t2 fitted griffon.

It's not like said griffin can harm you in any way.



What about the Griffin's friends?

Goose99
Posted - 2011.06.02 23:46:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: amarralt55
Originally by: Archbeholder
Originally by: King Rothgar
And this ladies and gentlemen, is why ECM is overpowered. It's well balanced vs BS's, but anything smaller will be permajammed with absolute certainty by a falcon and anything cruiser down will be permajammed by a 5M isk t2 fitted griffon.

It's not like said griffin can harm you in any way.



What about the Griffin's friends?


Think of it this way:

1) You're in a Rifter, vs another Rifter plus max skilled Griffin, you're permajammed and lose.

2) You're in a Rifter, vs 2 Rifters, you still lose, but faster.

Aamrr
Posted - 2011.06.02 23:57:00 - [7]
 

A griffin does have a 5 m3 drone bay, you know. And you CAN fit high slots to it...

Tsubutai
The Tuskers
Posted - 2011.06.03 00:03:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Goose99
1) You're in a Rifter, vs another Rifter plus max skilled Griffin, you're permajammed and lose.

2) You're in a Rifter, vs 2 Rifters, you still lose, but faster.

Nonsense. You can separate 2 rifters by warping around at different ranges to split them up so you're engaging one while his buddy is 50+ km away or by managing aggro on gates or whatever. If one of them's low on EHP, it may not even matter if his buddy catches up before he goes down, since you'll be able to finish off the primary and then start dealing with the secondary.

If you're fighting one Rifter and one Griffin, you lose the instant the Griffin's lock resolves, no matter what had been happening before that point.

Vorekk
LowBall Heavy Industries
Cloning Gone Wrong
Posted - 2011.06.03 00:25:00 - [9]
 

1) You're in a Rifter, vs another Rifter plus max skilled Griffin, you're permajammed and lose.

2) You're in a Rifter, vs 2 Rifters, you still lose, but faster.

But here, you have a chance to kill one of the Rifters. With the Griffin, you're not killing anything.

Shade Millith
Caldari
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.06.03 00:26:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Goose99
Originally by: amarralt55
Originally by: Archbeholder
Originally by: King Rothgar
And this ladies and gentlemen, is why ECM is overpowered. It's well balanced vs BS's, but anything smaller will be permajammed with absolute certainty by a falcon and anything cruiser down will be permajammed by a 5M isk t2 fitted griffon.

It's not like said griffin can harm you in any way.



What about the Griffin's friends?


Think of it this way:

1) You're in a Rifter, vs another Rifter plus max skilled Griffin, you're permajammed and lose.

2) You're in a Rifter, vs 2 Rifters, you still lose, but faster.


3) You're in a rifter, vs a griffin, you die.

Griffin is a pretty nasty frig killer on it's own.

baltec1
Posted - 2011.06.03 00:32:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Archbeholder
Originally by: King Rothgar
And this ladies and gentlemen, is why ECM is overpowered. It's well balanced vs BS's, but anything smaller will be permajammed with absolute certainty by a falcon and anything cruiser down will be permajammed by a 5M isk t2 fitted griffon.

It's not like said griffin can harm you in any way.



Give it enough time on a buffer fit...

Archbeholder
Posted - 2011.06.03 09:40:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Archbeholder on 03/06/2011 09:41:18
Originally by: amarralt55
Originally by: Archbeholder
Originally by: King Rothgar
And this ladies and gentlemen, is why ECM is overpowered. It's well balanced vs BS's, but anything smaller will be permajammed with absolute certainty by a falcon and anything cruiser down will be permajammed by a 5M isk t2 fitted griffon.

It's not like said griffin can harm you in any way.



What about the Griffin's friends?

What about your friends?

joshua boston
Posted - 2011.06.03 09:55:00 - [13]
 

It's not overpowered. It's a tactic that is open to people to use, that your not ingenuitive enough to overcome. So it's seems overpowered to you.

Suitonia
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.06.03 09:57:00 - [14]
 

Except that the best way to overcome it is to just bring your own ECM.

Darth Mouse
Caldari
Steel Soldier's
Posted - 2011.06.03 10:00:00 - [15]
 

My gripe is this effect in missions.
ALOT of the kill missions have my BC locked down.
Last night I timed my BC's lock down on a LEVEL 2 mission vs Guristas to 12 minutes ...
Thank god i had a stable tank.... or i'd have been pecked to death!

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2011.06.03 10:32:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Suitonia
Except that the best way to overcome it is to just bring your own ECM.


That's an unreliable, low quality counter. Using ECM to counter ECM just locks both ECM boats into a jamming war, where instead of jamming enemy DPS/tackle ships they end up inefficiently using their ECM on a hostile high-sensor strength ECM boat, a frustrating, unpredictable stalemate that continues until the end of a fight.

But as soon as one side is capable of applying DPS to the hostile ECM boat, it is very quickly removed from the field, negating what the enemy thought was their most potent weapon. And if you have an ECM boat of your own too, it is now free to jam the targets that it should be jamming.

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.06.03 10:41:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Darth Mouse
My gripe is this effect in missions.
ALOT of the kill missions have my BC locked down.
Last night I timed my BC's lock down on a LEVEL 2 mission vs Guristas to 12 minutes ...
Thank god i had a stable tank.... or i'd have been pecked to death!



There's this thing called ECCM you know? When you KNOW you're going to get jammed you could try using it mmmm?

BCs in a L2, dear gods Rolling Eyes

Zaraxis Uchonela
Posted - 2011.06.03 10:44:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Othran
Originally by: Darth Mouse
My gripe is this effect in missions.
ALOT of the kill missions have my BC locked down.
Last night I timed my BC's lock down on a LEVEL 2 mission vs Guristas to 12 minutes ...
Thank god i had a stable tank.... or i'd have been pecked to death!



There's this thing called ECCM you know? When you KNOW you're going to get jammed you could try using it mmmm?

BCs in a L2, dear gods Rolling Eyes


The word here is "cronic" boredom and wanted to **** about a bit.
So a BC into L2 was just a giggle.

Didnt mention jamming in the mission guide or survival. Seems ALOT of frigs carry it now ... PANICS! :)

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.06.03 13:42:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: King Rothgar
And this ladies and gentlemen, is why ECM is overpowered. It's well balanced vs BS's, but anything smaller will be permajammed with absolute certainty by a falcon and anything cruiser down will be permajammed by a 5M isk t2 fitted griffon.


True, because all ECM ships have an infinite number of racial jammers with zero cycle time

Suitonia
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.06.03 16:07:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: Suitonia
Except that the best way to overcome it is to just bring your own ECM.


That's an unreliable, low quality counter. Using ECM to counter ECM just locks both ECM boats into a jamming war, where instead of jamming enemy DPS/tackle ships they end up inefficiently using their ECM on a hostile high-sensor strength ECM boat, a frustrating, unpredictable stalemate that continues until the end of a fight.

But as soon as one side is capable of applying DPS to the hostile ECM boat, it is very quickly removed from the field, negating what the enemy thought was their most potent weapon. And if you have an ECM boat of your own too, it is now free to jam the targets that it should be jamming.


Your ECM tying up their ECM is the better counter though, and very acceptable. The only other effective counter is to bring ECCM, however, this has problems, especially in small gangs (which is the context of the OP and the replies, i.e. see 2x rifter vs rifter and rifter/griffen vs rifter responses). A lot of small scale combat is unpredictable and often not pre-scouted.

I'd rather bring ECM knowing that it's useful if we don't encounter enemy ECM (See what kind of problem this creates), and most small gang ships need the mid slot for tanking (Shield tanks are way more practical and the general trend for roaming / small gangs). ECCM is too much of a gamble (assuming you don't know what you will encounter, i.e., roaming) and you end up sacrificing tackle/tank, and the majority of roaming ships are going to have 60+% chance to be jammed by a recon anyway even with eccm. ECM is much better for getting your gang out when things go sour.

in before trolls telling me to fit smartbombs and f.o.f missiles on vagabonds.


 

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only