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whaynethepain
Dissident Aggressors
Mordus Angels
Posted - 2011.06.01 08:54:00 - [1]
 

I want to be a bounty hunter, the trouble is I have to get to a pod, before their mates do.

So to fix this the bounty needs to be ISK damage related.

For example, the pod will take perhaps 1000 ISK from the overall bounty and deliver to the hunter.
But a well fitted BS destruction would give millions more bounty.

Is this a possibility, or am I mad?

VIP Ares
Minmatar
BALKAN EXPRESS
HUN Reloaded
Posted - 2011.06.01 10:09:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: VIP Ares on 01/06/2011 10:09:50
Something could and should be done since bounty system we have now is crap.

This might be one step in right direction, but definitely not a solution.

Laurent Savard
Posted - 2011.06.01 13:25:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: whaynethepain
I want to be a bounty hunter, the trouble is I have to get to a pod, before their mates do.

So to fix this the bounty needs to be ISK damage related.

For example, the pod will take perhaps 1000 ISK from the overall bounty and deliver to the hunter.
But a well fitted BS destruction would give millions more bounty.

Is this a possibility, or am I mad?


I'm afraid it is nowhere near a solution. The problem is much deeper in the system, and to have a viable bounty system would require something completely different than pop a ship or pod.

Insurance + Jump Clones + Alts etc makes an ISK prize for popping someone moot.

Being popped is not a detriment. We are in a game "world" where getting blown up is profitable (qv suicide ganking). The Bounty System is really a role-play relic in a environment of lolrp.


Laurent Savard
Posted - 2011.06.01 13:59:00 - [4]
 

Just thinking about it for a while and there is nothing I can think of that keeps the basic structure of the Bounty concept (a reward for killing someone) intact, that would not be extremely easy to exploit, or be pointless.

You'd have to take a very different angle to make something like this remotely viable, but then you'd likely lose the whole roleplay mask of being a "Bounty Hunter."

Something like buyable kill rights, which would more or less be a person to person wardec or something. But even something like that would be extremely problematic.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.01 14:29:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: VIP Ares
Edited by: VIP Ares on 01/06/2011 10:09:50
Something could and should be done since bounty system we have now is crap.

This might be one step in right direction, but definitely not a solution.


There will simply never be a game where bounty means anything. The only way a game company could do anything about it is to only allow one account per IP, and since IP's can be spoofed it aint gonna happen.

Murnock Loran
Posted - 2011.06.01 14:31:00 - [6]
 

In a recent DevBlog a link to a player made concept video was given. Forum Entry YouTube

It features the beginning of an Eve career, a new player being lead by Aura through one's new captain quaters. I concludes with a sequence that shows how the player first climbs in his shiny new pod. This sequence is interspersed with the following sentence:

ĄFrom now own death is an inconvenience.ď

If death is a mere inconvenience then the whole idea of bounty hunting is reduced ad absurdum. Why would anyone pay for your death if you can't die any more?

Sure there are people that are delighted by short pieces of text called kills mails and other collect frozes corpses but as the target just wakes up in a new clone, your job as a bounty hunter is in some sense never finished.

Ispai Ponue
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.06.01 19:14:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Murnock Loran

If death is a mere inconvenience then the whole idea of bounty hunting is reduced ad absurdum. Why would anyone pay for your death if you can't die any more?


Ask the people who put bounties on pirates. It's players that do it. There's no other way to earn bounties. Everyone knows it just puts money in the pirate's pocket, but people still do it.

Tza Omi
Posted - 2011.06.01 20:46:00 - [8]
 

I'm unclear on how one can be a bounty hunter at least in hi-sec because of the mechanics of kill rights and concorde. If you found your bounty and attacked him/her, wouldn't concorde just show up and blow you out of space? Hi sec mechanics all work in favor of the bad guy, they can attack because they are suicide gankers and are ready and willing to be popped or they are can flippers and will only start fights with people they want to start fights with, maybe they're just a corporate spy that just screwed a corp over and got a bounty put on them, and won't engage in combat at all. If you as a bounty hunter attack them you get concorded. There is no mechanic to allow bounty hunters or for that matter someone who just wants to roleplay the hero to attack without being concorded in hi-sec. That whole sandbox trailer where the rifter helps the barge out then goes on a roam with his corp could not happen in hisec if the barge is being attacked by a player.

Sagarys Hazadur
Posted - 2011.06.02 06:59:00 - [9]
 

The bounty system could be revived relatively simply and it would allow a player that wanted to to role play the job while still being productive. Basically, rather than a generic public bounty on a person, the employer would hire their bounty hunters directly, allowing them to interview them and negotiate prices. Once a hunter is hired by an employer, the hunter's target will drop a special item upon destruction that will only spawn for the hired hunter. Returning the item to the employer will fulfill the contract and the hunter would get his money. An employer could hire more than one hunter for a target and force competition for faster results. Essentially, bounty hunters would be hit men. That wouldwork for me.

Battleship Bob
Posted - 2011.06.02 14:11:00 - [10]
 

A bounty should inconvenience the criminal its on, Right now, its simply an isk donation. What we really need is some way to prevent pirates from killing themselves to collect their own bounties. So I propose this, cap the maximum bounty on a player at 100 Million ISK. Then (and this is my favorite part) when that player is podded there is a percent chance they will lose a level 5 skill. This chance is equal to the bounty (per million isk) on them rounded up. So a 1 million ISK bounty means that they have a 1% chance of losing a level 5 skill. A 100 Million ISK bounty means they have a 100% percent chance of losing a lvl 5 skill. The skill would be chosen randomly. This would make the criminal choose between making a moderate ammount of isk in exchange for the minimun 4 days to retrain a 1x skill to much more in the case of say BS 5 if he should lose that.

The bounty of course would still be aid out to the person who kills the pod.

The cap here is very important. It prevents the bounty from becoming so big that its worth it to take the skill loss to get the money. So if a well off carebear thinks hes been greifed he can stick up 100 mil on a pirate and be reasonably sure that at some point in the future that pirate will experience some greif of his own.


What do you think? Afraid it will be used to greif pirates? maybe, but they made the choice to go -2.0 sec status.

Sin SoLeXX
Minmatar
1.21 Gigawatts
Posted - 2011.06.02 16:18:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Sagarys Hazadur
The bounty system could be revived relatively simply and it would allow a player that wanted to to role play the job while still being productive. Basically, rather than a generic public bounty on a person, the employer would hire their bounty hunters directly, allowing them to interview them and negotiate prices. Once a hunter is hired by an employer, the hunter's target will drop a special item upon destruction that will only spawn for the hired hunter. Returning the item to the employer will fulfill the contract and the hunter would get his money. An employer could hire more than one hunter for a target and force competition for faster results. Essentially, bounty hunters would be hit men. That wouldwork for me.

I like this idea

Battleship Bob
Posted - 2011.06.02 17:10:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Sin SoLeXX
Originally by: Sagarys Hazadur
The bounty system could be revived relatively simply and it would allow a player that wanted to to role play the job while still being productive. Basically, rather than a generic public bounty on a person, the employer would hire their bounty hunters directly, allowing them to interview them and negotiate prices. Once a hunter is hired by an employer, the hunter's target will drop a special item upon destruction that will only spawn for the hired hunter. Returning the item to the employer will fulfill the contract and the hunter would get his money. An employer could hire more than one hunter for a target and force competition for faster results. Essentially, bounty hunters would be hit men. That wouldwork for me.

I like this idea


Still wouldn't prevent criminals from having "Bounty Hunter ALTs" or hell even collusion between hunters and targets. In the end its an only slightly more annoying isk donation.

Haradriel Tian
Posted - 2011.06.02 17:22:00 - [13]
 

Id say you should have to turn the corpse into the bounty office to collect the rewards.


Mekhana
Gallente
Spiritus Draconis
Posted - 2011.06.02 17:57:00 - [14]
 

I think bounties should be assigned by the game.

Basically the king of pirates at the very top like the ace of spades.

Then there's the mid and low tier.

Bounties would be assigned by the game on many factors such as total isk damage caused, how long he hasn't been beaten and how much of an active criminal he is.

Because it is very difficult to come up with a reward on kill system that is balanced and can't be exploited I'd recommend bounty is given out on financial loss given to the pirate. So basically if you kill him in his noob ship you don't get anything but if you kill him in his Machariel then you'd be rewarded handsomely.

However if you are going to make a bounty hunting a legit activity in EVE then you need to encourage people to be pirates as well. So some new features in that department would be very welcome.

Yabba Addict
Posted - 2011.06.02 18:11:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Yabba Addict on 02/06/2011 18:12:45
How about changing the bounty from the pod to the ship? The bounty goes to the killing blow, and the amount awarded can be determined based on average market value of all mods, including rigs, fitted to the ship before any were destroyed.
This would carry on for as many ships as there is bounty to cover it, making for a reason to place higher bounties on people. It'd be nice if faction/complex loot could be added to the pricing system, but I doubt they'd go that far.
Although this is still slightly exploitable, i think it'd be a much hardier system than the current one, and would be alot harder work to cash in on large bounties.



Sin SoLeXX
Minmatar
1.21 Gigawatts
Posted - 2011.06.02 18:36:00 - [16]
 

I like many of the ideas being tossed around here.

Personally, I've been rather discouraged by the current bounty system for some time now, but every suggestion I've seen or brought to the table myself is usually met with responses pointing out all the possible exploitations that would be practiced if said changes were implemented. That factor must be addressed of course, but the nature of EVE when all is said and done is capitalizing on whatever edge or exploit one finds useful, so I don't think there's much hope for a 100% exploit free system, in terms of bounty or otherwise.

I like Yabba Addict's idea as well. Having the bounty rewarded to killing blow for the ship instead of the pod, and the amount rewarded being based on some sort of formula having to do with ship avg. price, modules, cargo, etc... This way, there's fewer means for exploitation, as the pilot won't gain anything for killing himself/herself with an Alt. And, of course, self destruct in this case would not trigger any bounty payout at all.

Elbie Klep
Posted - 2011.06.02 19:11:00 - [17]
 

I like the idea of losing an L5 skill. But it does have the problem of griefer alts just not having L5 skills (e.g., specialist suicide gankers who don't care about the ship or the bounty).

It seems to me the key thing is to prevent jumping into a shuttle and getting blown up by an alt/buddy. CCP could prevent the alt problem by not allowing bounties to be collected by alts from any of the same player's accounts or anyone from the same player corp.

I think the buddy problem can be mitigated by a combination of ship value and skill. First, define the skill loss in terms of a fixed number of LPs ratehr then a nuber of skills. Then substract LPs from the highest value skills, whatever they are, until all the LPs are gone (leaving the last skill partially trained, if necessary). CCP could use a heuristic to work through, say, combat skills first at each level. This should make it painful for any target.

Second, make an adjustment to the fixed LPs that is proportional to ship class when killed. That is, the LPs are increased for small ships and decreased for large ships.

Third (optional), provide a similar adjustment for the probability that the skills will be lost that is inverse to ship size.

Unfortunately there is a potential downside. Griefers could start putting bounties on people just to trash their skills. So CCP would probably have to beef up the criteria for placing bounties.

Sagarys Hazadur
Posted - 2011.06.02 21:36:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Sagarys Hazadur on 02/06/2011 21:37:51
Originally by: Battleship Bob
Originally by: Sin SoLeXX
Originally by: Sagarys Hazadur
The bounty system could be revived relatively simply and it would allow a player that wanted to to role play the job while still being productive. Basically, rather than a generic public bounty on a person, the employer would hire their bounty hunters directly, allowing them to interview them and negotiate prices. Once a hunter is hired by an employer, the hunter's target will drop a special item upon destruction that will only spawn for the hired hunter. Returning the item to the employer will fulfill the contract and the hunter would get his money. An employer could hire more than one hunter for a target and force competition for faster results. Essentially, bounty hunters would be hit men. That wouldwork for me.

I like this idea



Still wouldn't prevent criminals from having "Bounty Hunter ALTs" or hell even collusion between hunters and targets. In the end its an only slightly more annoying isk donation.


Not really because the employer can handle the screening and hiring of the hunter like any other business contract. Plus once some hunters have made a name for themselves, employers will go to them first.'

Beanard
Posted - 2011.06.02 21:48:00 - [19]
 

kill rights should be tradeable through contracts
no ingame bounty system but still better/less useless than current system imo

Maxpie
Metaphysical Utopian Society Explorations
Posted - 2011.06.03 00:18:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Beanard
kill rights should be tradeable through contracts
no ingame bounty system but still better/less useless than current system imo


This.

Or, simply limit payout to the cost of the clone and implants in the head of the deceased.

Savage Breed
Posted - 2011.06.03 02:22:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Sagarys Hazadur
... rather than a generic public bounty on a person, the employer would hire their bounty hunters directly, allowing them to interview them and negotiate prices.



Originally by: Battleship Bob

Still wouldn't prevent criminals from having "Bounty Hunter ALTs" or hell even collusion between hunters and targets. In the end its an only slightly more annoying isk donation.



With a few exceptions, a bounty contract should be treated like any other contract and can be issued publicly or for a corp. Although the issuer should have to option of screening applicants, just like Sagarys mentioned.

In order to help prevent Bobís problems with Bounty Hunter ALTs, every player should have a bounty tab in their char sheet detailing all bounty related transactions they have participated in. This will give the issuer added data to screen his contact applicants.

So if myself and another character tend to always blow each otherís Ibisís up to collect a bounty, the issuer will see this and act accordingly. It wonít 100% prevent abuse ... but this is eve after all.

Battleship Bob
Posted - 2011.06.03 13:51:00 - [22]
 

Ok...

So there would be a new type of contract, a Bounty Contract, that can be assigned either publicly or privately to individuals or corps. (Screening of said individuals and corps would be the responsibility of the contract creator.) Then when the target's ship is destroyed it will drop a special item ('Battleship Bob's Ruined Power Core' that is only lootable by someone with the contract) that can be right clicked and turned in for the bounty. At that point a special message from the contracts creator could be sent to the target if the creator wishes it.

Contracts coud only be placed on targets with -2.00 sec status.
Also I think to prevent scamming hunters that once a bounty contract is created it cannot be repealed, only expire. (So you better make sure you get the target right.)

SC0T1SH WARRIOR
Posted - 2011.06.03 14:09:00 - [23]
 

Loss of 1 million SP on bounties over a certain amount (100million.?)
Loss of 500K SP on bounties below.
Loss of nothing for bounties under 10K


if you pay double the price of the bounty to an NPC somewhere, it halfs the actual bounty amount
then Double the price again and it halfs etc.
you can only do this once per week.

SenshiMaru
Posted - 2011.06.03 14:50:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: SenshiMaru on 03/06/2011 14:50:58
Why not be able to post a Kill contract that transfers killrights from the killright holder to the bounty hunter? You could also require that the corpse be turned in to complete the contract, and the corpse would have a % chance of "dropping" any implants the target might have as a reward once the contract completes?

Joeanne Card
Posted - 2011.06.03 16:54:00 - [25]
 

bounty hunter checks the board, picks a target for a 1v1, pirate gets a mail with 48hours to respond. If he accepts, gets to pick a system for a wormhole to spawn and is given a code to enter which only he/she can use to enter, same for the hunter, he gets a wormhole and code.
Inside its a straight up showdown. battleship size or lower. Hunter wins, takes bounty. pirate wins, gets a % of the bounty or some LP for some ****. would need a timer for stalemates

not a perfect idea and needs polishing but could work. also fills the niche of solo pvp that so many crave nowadays

Elbie Klep
Posted - 2011.06.03 17:01:00 - [26]
 

While the notion of a contract to a specific bounty hunter, screenable by the bounty setter, is better than the current system, I think it still has some problems. One is that whoever places the bounty wants it to be public because that largely prevents the miscreant from hiding out; the bounty is collectable any time, anywhere by anyone. The single bounty hunter may be able to make a living at it on average, but the contractors would have limited relief in practice as a group.

Another is that it would require a lot of effort by CCP to support it since it does not map well to existing contract structure becasue of the history display needed. Yet another problem is that any pirate corp can split in two and the two halves would do the bounties on each other, which would be very difficult for a client to detect -- it would look like a professional bounty-hunting corp just doing its job. More to the point, it would still allow farming of bounties; it just requires two alts instead of one.

So I still think putting teeth into the bounty via SPs is a better choice. The loss of skills hurts the miscreant, which makes the contractor happy. The reward makes the bounty hunter de jour happy. Yet the miscreant isn't going to gain over continued griefing if the SP loss maps well to the bounty amount. IOW, he can get away with griefing in the short term, but in the long term it will eventually catch up. And, since it is public, he cant hide out. Finally, it would probably be less work for CCP to implement than changing contracts.

Tu Ko
Predator's Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.04 03:22:00 - [27]
 

So in summery of this horrible thread, we have three ideas

1. That Players should be able to hand over Kill rights. So that while they got ganked in lowsec the pirate should be open season in high sec. Yeah that's balanced

2. That the mere act of spending isk to create a contract changes the clone mechanics and guarantees that the 'mark' will lose SP on his next loss. Awesome, I got a billion to toss around.

3. For whatever reason everyone believes one solo pilot is going to walk in and clean up the badlands if you pay him money. Clint Eastwood doesn't play eve kids, you're going to have to hire mercs directly. Which amazingly enough is the exact solution to all this. HIRE A MERC CORP.

ELECTR0FREAK
Eye of God
Posted - 2011.06.05 03:47:00 - [28]
 

From the Dev Q&A answer thread:

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1508537&page=1#27

Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Bounty system revisit - yes, this is something we want to do. We're a gritty space game that doesn't let you be Han Solo (or Greedo), which is somewhat foolish


So that's promising at least...

Apocrypha x
Posted - 2011.06.07 11:33:00 - [29]
 

i like the idea of contracting kill rights provided the contract is only made available to the corp it was issued to.

Apart from the normal system there could also be rewards issued by Concord on players with negative security status, with -10 pirates having the highest bounty. This would vastly increase the number of players with bounties on their heads making the bounty hunter profession much more viable.


Kudlow N'cramer
World Eaters Excavation
Posted - 2011.06.07 12:17:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Battleship Bob
Ok...

So there would be a new type of contract, a Bounty Contract, that can be assigned either publicly or privately to individuals or corps. (Screening of said individuals and corps would be the responsibility of the contract creator.) Then when the target's ship is destroyed it will drop a special item ('Battleship Bob's Ruined Power Core' that is only lootable by someone with the contract) that can be right clicked and turned in for the bounty. At that point a special message from the contracts creator could be sent to the target if the creator wishes it.

Contracts coud only be placed on targets with -2.00 sec status.
Also I think to prevent scamming hunters that once a bounty contract is created it cannot be repealed, only expire. (So you better make sure you get the target right.)

I've always thought there should be a corp role that allows you to make a certain percentage of a bounty placed (or added to) available to corp members only. Some would still have to go towards the public bounty, but it would be cool to have a corp most wanted list.

This could also be applied to corporate wardecs as well as region, constellation, or system specific bounties. But I would have those for the hull. Basically, pay people to blow up military objectives. Get on a kill mail and if you are in the corp and/or in the right area, you get paid.


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