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Xaexia Attor
Posted - 2011.05.31 15:27:00 - [1]
 

Currently My Drake has the two rigs, one which increases Rate of Fire by 10% and the other which increases overall damage by 10%. Having gone tech II on my launchers I am torn between which one I should lose in order to fit to Rigor Rigs. Your feedback is appreciated.

Sturmwolke
Posted - 2011.05.31 17:04:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Sturmwolke on 31/05/2011 17:05:08

Both. Pure dps numbers in EFT is nice to look at, but it doesn't reflect accurately in the real environment.
If you already run 3 BCS, the stack nerf for T1 rof/dmg rigs pretty much wastes the rig slots.

The latest EFT dps graph simulates the effect of sig, speed and EW (painters/web) for a particular target.
Play around with swapping mods to get the best dps for your focus target class.

Not a Troll
Posted - 2011.05.31 17:11:00 - [3]
 

The same thing og missiles really, but on weapons like 1400mm's the alpha is so high it will help get more DPS.

With even MOAR alpha, you can one-shot stuff, and thus eleminate reps and active tank completely.

Gaius BaItar
Posted - 2011.05.31 17:15:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Xaexia Attor
Currently My Drake has the two rigs, one which increases Rate of Fire by 10% and the other which increases overall damage by 10%. Having gone tech II on my launchers I am torn between which one I should lose in order to fit to Rigor Rigs. Your feedback is appreciated.

To answer your question, increased rate of fire gives more DPS than increased damage.

It can be proved with the formula:
DPS=Damage/ROF

10% more damage means 10% more DPS.
10% more ROF means 1/(1-0.1)=11.11% more DPS.

The only time when damage is better than ROF is when you need high alpha.

However, the poster above is right about stacking
penalties.

Test Build
Posted - 2011.05.31 17:53:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Gaius BaItar
Originally by: Xaexia Attor
Currently My Drake has the two rigs, one which increases Rate of Fire by 10% and the other which increases overall damage by 10%. Having gone tech II on my launchers I am torn between which one I should lose in order to fit to Rigor Rigs. Your feedback is appreciated.

To answer your question, increased rate of fire gives more DPS than increased damage.

It can be proved with the formula:
DPS=Damage/ROF

10% more damage means 10% more DPS.
10% more ROF means 1/(1-0.1)=11.11% more DPS.

The only time when damage is better than ROF is when you need high alpha.

However, the poster above is right about stacking
penalties.


What about reload time?

Baneken
Gallente
The New Knighthood
Apocalypse Now.
Posted - 2011.05.31 18:00:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Test Build
Originally by: Gaius BaItar
Originally by: Xaexia Attor
Currently My Drake has the two rigs, one which increases Rate of Fire by 10% and the other which increases overall damage by 10%. Having gone tech II on my launchers I am torn between which one I should lose in order to fit to Rigor Rigs. Your feedback is appreciated.

To answer your question, increased rate of fire gives more DPS than increased damage.

It can be proved with the formula:
DPS=Damage/ROF

10% more damage means 10% more DPS.
10% more ROF means 1/(1-0.1)=11.11% more DPS.

The only time when damage is better than ROF is when you need high alpha.

However, the poster above is right about stacking
penalties.


What about reload time?


If your target dies before you needs to reload then it's irrelevant otherwise it lowers your dps to 0 for 10 sec obviously; thus lowering your overall DPS (since it's a median of any given time frame over 1s after all).
In practice it means you get your ass handed to you for those 10s while you wait for reload to complite.

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2011.05.31 18:02:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Test Build
Originally by: Gaius BaItar
Originally by: Xaexia Attor
Currently My Drake has the two rigs, one which increases Rate of Fire by 10% and the other which increases overall damage by 10%. Having gone tech II on my launchers I am torn between which one I should lose in order to fit to Rigor Rigs. Your feedback is appreciated.

To answer your question, increased rate of fire gives more DPS than increased damage.

It can be proved with the formula:
DPS=Damage/ROF

10% more damage means 10% more DPS.
10% more ROF means 1/(1-0.1)=11.11% more DPS.

The only time when damage is better than ROF is when you need high alpha.

However, the poster above is right about stacking
penalties.


What about reload time?


that is a variable that depends on many conditions, including how much damage the target takes before going b00m (is it more or less than your ammo clip?) and the size of the ammo clip itself. (thus why you see short range weapons with much bigger clip sizes than long range ones, xcept lasers).
without factoring reload times, it is usually said that a 25% RoF > 25% damage (think it's around 33%. I remember seeing those numbers long ago).

of course that, by itself, RoF is actually a better self-balanced stat than the dmg multiplier. Increased RoF means less time between reloads and increased capacitor stress (where it applies).

Tenzeck
Posted - 2011.05.31 21:23:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Test Build
What about reload time?


I am Amarrian and I approve this message.

Newbie Ned
Minmatar
Real Nice And Laidback Corporation
Posted - 2011.05.31 21:52:00 - [9]
 

The question about ROF is a little more complex and I've never been convinced that there is a correct answer except "it depends".

For sake of argument let's say you do 1000 damage every 10secs (100 dps, sort of):

If you increase damage by 10% then after one (or 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) secs you have done 1100 damage.

If you increase rof by 10% then after one (or 2,3,4,5,6,7,8) secs you have done 1000 damage whereas after 9 secs you have done 2000.

And so on - so after, for example, 60 secs the +10% damage case has done 7700 damage whereas the rof case has only done 7000 damage but note that it has also done 7000 damage at 54 secs and 8000 damage at 63 secs against the +10% damage doing 6600 at 54 secs and 7700 and 63 secs.

What I am trying to say is that it isn't a smooth curve but steps with sometimes one ahead sometimes the other. If it is a very rapid rof it is close enough to being a smooth curve as makes no difference (rof>damage) but if it is 1400mm arties, or similar, then it is the steps that matter (damage>rof).

Everyone uses formulas but putting numbers in works better for my brain! Also note that in a longer engagement, as noted above, reload times matter. Again as someone said above the best answer is probably "whichever is least stacking penalized" unless you want pure alpha!

Pineapple Squatsauce
Posted - 2011.06.01 18:56:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Pineapple Squatsauce on 01/06/2011 19:56:39
Yup. Whether you prefer to increase your damage per hit (DPH) or rate of fire (ROF) is pretty situational. Each has its benefits and downsides depending on what weapons systems you are using, what type of ships you are flying, what you are fighting, and whether you're doing PvE or PvP.

Increasing your damage per hit means using less ammunition to get the job done, which can save much ISK over the course of many months of mission-running or ratting. I also find it preferable to raise DPH rather than ROF when flying a laser boat as it can add to overall DPS without hurting my cap. In general, I find that raising Damage Per Hit is preferable in most kinds of PVE.

Increasing your ROF adds more overall DPS per mod than adding DPH, but can be less efficient in certain situations. For players using cap-eating weapons systems, it puts extra strain on your capacitor. For Caldari it may mean your ship has enough time to fire off an extra salvo of missiles at the ship your previous salvo is about to destroy. For anyone using ammunition-based weapons, it means you'll empty out your ammo reserves a bit more quickly and you'll have to restock on ammo more often. This, of course, matters little in PvP, so prioritizing ROF is probably your best bet for that.

All that said, it really is a matter of personal preference and neither choice is bad.
edited for fiscal reasons

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2011.06.01 19:33:00 - [11]
 

still say CCP should change the rep bonus of the hype for a hybrid RoF bonus.Cool

I mean, ok yes you gain a nasty damage boost on the ship, but at the same time your cap becomes quite alot more unstable.

Yabba Addict
Posted - 2011.06.02 02:09:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Newbie Ned
The question about ROF is a little more complex and I've never been convinced that there is a correct answer except "it depends".

For sake of argument let's say you do 1000 damage every 10secs (100 dps, sort of):

If you increase damage by 10% then after one (or 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) secs you have done 1100 damage.

If you increase rof by 10% then after one (or 2,3,4,5,6,7,8) secs you have done 1000 damage whereas after 9 secs you have done 2000.

And so on - so after, for example, 60 secs the +10% damage case has done 7700 damage whereas the rof case has only done 7000 damage but note that it has also done 7000 damage at 54 secs and 8000 damage at 63 secs against the +10% damage doing 6600 at 54 secs and 7700 and 63 secs.

What I am trying to say is that it isn't a smooth curve but steps with sometimes one ahead sometimes the other. If it is a very rapid rof it is close enough to being a smooth curve as makes no difference (rof>damage) but if it is 1400mm arties, or similar, then it is the steps that matter (damage>rof).

Everyone uses formulas but putting numbers in works better for my brain! Also note that in a longer engagement, as noted above, reload times matter. Again as someone said above the best answer is probably "whichever is least stacking penalized" unless you want pure alpha!



EvE Online, AKA Spreadsheets in Space Laughing


Julius SurJo
Posted - 2011.06.03 07:29:00 - [13]
 

To make it very easy to understand:

*say you do 100 damage in 60sec and have a ROF of 30sec
*+50% damage, 150 damage in 60sec
*+50% ROF, ROF 15sec doing 200 damage in 60sec

Not realistic numbers but the maths the same

achoura
Posted - 2011.06.03 08:43:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Julius SurJo
To make it very easy to understand:

*say you do 100 damage in 60sec and have a ROF of 30sec
*+50% damage, 150 damage in 60sec
*+50% ROF, ROF 15sec doing 200 damage in 60sec

Not realistic numbers but the maths the same


Exaggerated but correct Laughing

The real benefit with increased rof on turrets is the increased number of wrecking shots. Missiles don't have that specific benefit but increasing the rof still increases damage thanks to the quite bad reduction in applied damage relative to target speed. It's not much I grant you, but given it's already doing more damage than the damage rig, it make sense.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.06.03 09:35:00 - [15]
 

RoF always gives an advantage. At whatever rate you were killing the rats at before, a 1% RoF boost will increase that rate by 1%.

Damage boosts are harder to value. What actually matters is how many shots it takes to kill a rat. For instance, my Tengu will 2-shot guristas battlecruisers. I will never be able to boost my volley damage high enough to 1-shot them, so adding damage rigs or training warhead upgrades V would be pointless. I would just be "wasting" damage on overkill on the second volley.

If I was taking 3 vollies to shoot them, with just a bit of hull remaining after the second, then a small increase in volley damage might be enough to allow me to two-shot those battlecruisers. a 1% increase in my damage would then give me a 50% increase in my effective DPS.

In short: damage bonuses can be either useless or much more effective that RoF. If you dont care to to analyse your volley patterns then just stay with the RoF rig. However, as pointed out above, you will only get a very small increase from either assuming you have 3 BCUs already (and you'd better have 3 BCUs!)

Lilandras Kusanagi
Posted - 2011.06.04 00:16:00 - [16]
 


+RoF will pump out more overall damage than +Dmg due to how the math works. (Keep in mind; The slower the weapon is, the more you have to consider the # of volleys needed, sometimes +dmg will make the difference between 2shot and 3shotting something.)

+RoF will use more ammo, cap, and will cause more breaks for reloads.

+RoF somewhat helps normalize damage (more shots = more likely to = the avg), probably a very negligable difference.

Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos
Word of Chaos Undivided
Posted - 2011.06.04 02:49:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
RoF always gives an advantage. At whatever rate you were killing the rats at before, a 1% RoF boost will increase that rate by 1%.


1.01% actually.


 

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