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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.05.30 17:03:00 - [1]
 

One of the main IMBA's in the game seems to be that hybrid weapons are a bit underpowered. This seems to be the general consensus, and from my limited Gallente experience seems to be true.

Now, drones don't really seem to be OP in most cases, but the drone boats in the game seem to be on par with comparable ships of the other races.

So that I think is what gives CCP the giant conundrum , if they buff hybrids it will make non drone boat hybrids balanced, but will make the hybrid weapon drone boats OP.

For example the Domi is where it needs to be, it can get big DPS with a ton of skills, but its on par with other racial BS equivilants.

If hybrids were buffed, the underpowered Hyperion would be on par with the maelstrom for example but then the Domi would be OP. This problem reverberates throughout the classes.

What do you think, can CCP fix hybrids alone, or does the entire race need to be revamped as to not create another IMBA when fixing hybrids?

Vizvig
Posted - 2011.05.30 17:08:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Vizvig on 30/05/2011 17:10:41
You are a captain obviousCrying or Very sad

Hybrids are useful only in taranis, ishkur, daredevil.

On other ships hybrid almost useless, drones is wrong.

Cambarus
Malicious Destruction
War Against the Manifest
Posted - 2011.05.30 19:31:00 - [3]
 

The thing you're not looking at is that it really is difficult to make a blaster ship overpowered by, say, increasing raw DPS, simply because no matter how good it looks in EFT, it's still extremely difficult to actually apply said DPS in practice. That said, I wouldn't be against the idea of changing the domi's second bonus to something more drone related (+1 drone per level? Please?) if the guns become too much of a problem. Or, hell, just remove one of its turret hardpoints. Problem solved (assuming the change to blasters/rails is a flat out increase to DPS)

Ami Nia
Posted - 2011.05.30 22:13:00 - [4]
 

It really depends on how CCP fixes the hybrids. You seem to think they need to change some attribute of the hybrid turrets themselves, but I disagree. The main problem is with blasters (and therefore Galllente) and is not that the damage isn't there but that you cannot apply it. Buff Gallente speeds a little bit and buff Gallente agility a larger bit, and 90% of the blaster's imbalance will be solved.

Wacktopia
Sicarius.
Legion of The Damned.
Posted - 2011.05.31 09:20:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Wacktopia on 31/05/2011 09:20:10

Pretty-much...

Missiles: No cap, choose damage type*, ranges. (* less dmg for Caldari but still an option)
Projectiles: No cap, choose damage type, ranges.
Drones: No cap, choose damage type, ranges.
Lasers: Eat cap but good range and great T2 ammo.

And then...

Hybrids: Eat cap, fixed damage type, lol-range (blasters)

For the record you chose a terrible example in the Domi - it's one of the best Gallente ships. Ironically with large guns and drones in "gank" mode it hits out pretty well, especially if you go Shields and gun mods in the lows.

A good example would be the Brutix. Its a gun boat but unless you're at 2km and not too fast and have your target completely pinned then you're screwed. Having said this it will hurt you bad when in range but it will probably die first.

McRoll
Minmatar
Heatseekers
Posted - 2011.05.31 09:58:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Ami Nia
It really depends on how CCP fixes the hybrids. You seem to think they need to change some attribute of the hybrid turrets themselves, but I disagree. The main problem is with blasters (and therefore Galllente) and is not that the damage isn't there but that you cannot apply it. Buff Gallente speeds a little bit and buff Gallente agility a larger bit, and 90% of the blaster's imbalance will be solved.


And then you will have the imbalance between Minmatar and Gallente because speed is Minmatar domain. If Gallente becomes comparable to Minmatar in terms of speed, people would complain about Galletne ships doing more damage than Minmatar while being equally fast.
Buffing Gallente speed "a little" wont help it because a little is not enough to change the situation.

I read a clever statement somewhere, it stated that it is not the weapon system or ship, its the nature of blobbing and the ever increasing gang sizes that make Gallente crap. Ships die too fast in big gangs for hybrid turrets to matter. Gallente really shine in very small gangs, where somebody webs your target and you have the time to close to it and actually apply your DPS.

There are too many factors to be considered and it cannot be done by simply changing some stats. You dont see the large picture. I also think that it is mainly because of this that CCP takes so long to revisit hybrids.

nadicus
Posted - 2011.05.31 12:41:00 - [7]
 

Since this is 'the obvious thread' -- Don't forget Caldari in this equation albeit a lesser extent.

General Foom
Caldari
Posted - 2011.05.31 12:43:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: General Foom on 31/05/2011 12:44:57
Originally by: Ami Nia
It really depends on how CCP fixes the hybrids. You seem to think they need to change some attribute of the hybrid turrets themselves, but I disagree. The main problem is with blasters (and therefore Galllente) and is not that the damage isn't there but that you cannot apply it. Buff Gallente speeds a little bit and buff Gallente agility a larger bit, and 90% of the blaster's imbalance will be solved.


The base speed and agility of Gallente Blaster boats is indeed an issue,
but there are many more issues compounding the problem.....such as,

"Ship performance issues"
(fitting plates and armor rigs to a ship slow it down compounding the issue of low speed and agility)
this is a drastic consequence for the Gallente ship line up as lack of damage projection requires more mobility as you have to move to your target to damage it.
this is less of an issue for Amarr Armor tankers as they can project there damage out further and their ship bonuses are more suited to Buffer tanking.
Gallente ships mostly have Active tanking bonuses so receive no added benefit from buffer tanking.....which raises the next Issue

"Fitting issues"
(getting the necessary mods onto any given blaster boat seem unnecessarily hard)
the reason people Buffer tank blaster boats as far as i can see is that the grid requirement to fit a reasonable active tank on a PVP blaster boat
just gimps its DPS too much and makes it too vulnerable to Cap warfare..hello PVP!
Blaster Boats just all seem a little Grid staved...point blank is the most demanding form of combat ..and in a slow ship..you need the grid to fit all those nifty mods..this for me is my biggest bug bear and would go the longest way to fixing "hybrids"
sh-it try fitting a full rack of highest tier rails on you blaster boat and see how much grid is left?


"cap usage"
Hybrids use cap / microwarp drive use cap / active reppers use cap /
as per what i said above...Cap boosters are also required on Blaster fits stretching Grid even tighter
looking at blaster boat cap pools might be in order..but its lower down the list.

remember no one is asking for Blaster ships to be the only PVP ship in eve
just some minor adjustments to make them more viable..

Rails on the other hand.....saving that one for later though




Swynet
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.05.31 12:48:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Cipher Jones
One of the main IMBA's in the game seems to be that hybrid weapons are a bit underpowered. This seems to be the general consensus, and from my limited Gallente experience seems to be true.

Now, drones don't really seem to be OP in most cases, but the drone boats in the game seem to be on par with comparable ships of the other races.

So that I think is what gives CCP the giant conundrum , if they buff hybrids it will make non drone boat hybrids balanced, but will make the hybrid weapon drone boats OP.

For example the Domi is where it needs to be, it can get big DPS with a ton of skills, but its on par with other racial BS equivilants.

If hybrids were buffed, the underpowered Hyperion would be on par with the maelstrom for example but then the Domi would be OP. This problem reverberates throughout the classes.

What do you think, can CCP fix hybrids alone, or does the entire race need to be revamped as to not create another IMBA when fixing hybrids?


Lets say blaster get 250% raw dps buff, mkay?

Then you take your plated or shield brutix saying yourself "mwahahahaaaaaa"

Then you see some cynabal and go get some fun.
Then the cynabal mwd and opens fire at 20km with his under powerd auto-canons, mkay?
Then your ubber brutix will look like toilet paper and all you can do is see your drones desperately try to scratch the cyna paint while you're being melted like with 250% less dps.

Thx for coming /bye

Enthropic
Sturmgrenadier Inc
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2011.05.31 13:13:00 - [10]
 

In reply to OP's point, Hybrids do need a buff.
The concern that one particular ship, the domi, then does not get overpowered, one could just remove the hybrid dmg bonus of the domi (and change it to something else, like drone control range, or local rep bonus or whatever).

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.05.31 13:17:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Cipher Jones on 31/05/2011 13:19:14
Originally by: Swynet
Originally by: Cipher Jones
One of the main IMBA's in the game seems to be that hybrid weapons are a bit underpowered. This seems to be the general consensus, and from my limited Gallente experience seems to be true.

Now, drones don't really seem to be OP in most cases, but the drone boats in the game seem to be on par with comparable ships of the other races.

So that I think is what gives CCP the giant conundrum , if they buff hybrids it will make non drone boat hybrids balanced, but will make the hybrid weapon drone boats OP.

For example the Domi is where it needs to be, it can get big DPS with a ton of skills, but its on par with other racial BS equivilants.

If hybrids were buffed, the underpowered Hyperion would be on par with the maelstrom for example but then the Domi would be OP. This problem reverberates throughout the classes.

What do you think, can CCP fix hybrids alone, or does the entire race need to be revamped as to not create another IMBA when fixing hybrids?


Lets say blaster get 250% raw dps buff, mkay?

Then you take your plated or shield brutix saying yourself "mwahahahaaaaaa"

Then you see some cynabal and go get some fun.
Then the cynabal mwd and opens fire at 20km with his under powerd auto-canons, mkay?
Then your ubber brutix will look like toilet paper and all you can do is see your drones desperately try to scratch the cyna paint while you're being melted like with 250% less dps.

Thx for coming /bye


You didn't answer my question, injected an unrelated hypothetical, then cried.
/thread


Quote:
In reply to OP's point, Hybrids do need a buff.
The concern that one particular ship, the domi, then does not get overpowered, one could just remove the hybrid dmg bonus of the domi (and change it to something else, like drone control range, or local rep bonus or whatever).


Any hybrid/drone boat, but yeah, thats the pickle.

And for the record rep bonus would make it hella OP.

Amitious Turkey
Gallente
TarNec
Posted - 2011.05.31 13:19:00 - [12]
 

I'm railgun specced, and I haven't used them for at least a year...Don't even bother :(

Swynet
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.05.31 13:23:00 - [13]
 

@OP

Read my post again and you will understand that buffing hybrids on their own is not the answer.

To make it simple so you can understand, what the hell will you do with 150% more dps when you can't apply it.

See? -simple, just read.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.05.31 13:32:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Swynet
@OP

Read my post again and you will understand that buffing hybrids on their own is not the answer.

To make it simple so you can understand, what the hell will you do with 150% more dps when you can't apply it.

See? -simple, just read.



Thanks for making me understand something I already understood. It wasnt simple enough for me to understand when I wrote it myself in the OP and then asked what CCP should do about it, I guess reading is in fact fundamental.


Swynet
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.05.31 13:35:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Cipher Jones
Originally by: Swynet
@OP

Read my post again and you will understand that buffing hybrids on their own is not the answer.

To make it simple so you can understand, what the hell will you do with 150% more dps when you can't apply it.

See? -simple, just read.



Thanks for making me understand something I already understood. It wasnt simple enough for me to understand when I wrote it myself in the OP and then asked what CCP should do about it, I guess reading is in fact fundamental.




It's even simple when you take the time to read existent topics on this matter.

Sable Schroedinger
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2011.05.31 15:10:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Sable Schroedinger on 31/05/2011 15:11:24
the ability to apply damage has always been the challenge of blasters. Even in their hay day. It really is where the pilot/gang skill comes into it - however, like with all ships, they have their natural counters and a ship that can kite at 20+km and apply reasonable damage is their counter. This is how it should be.

The problem is, a mini cruiser really isn't meant to be able to project good damage from that distance, thats meant to be the very reaches of its far fall off and so extremely low damage (something the active tank is meant to be able to handle, but active tanking is another topic). The insane 30% fall off bonus to TE IIs, however has created the situation where this is now possible and this is why we're seeing shield tanked AC ships becoming the FOTM as they've broken their concept and become over powered.

As for the OP, would the Domi become OP? In thoery, it would. But then, even with its damage bonus, and even back when blasters were FOTM, very few domi's packed blasters. The reason being, cos domi's are incredibly tight on fitting and so struggle to make the most of it all. Exception might be made for a shield tank gank setup, not played with them too much tbh.

However it goes, and whatever you think to change, the acid test has to be: if you get into range (by whatever means that may be) will you shine in a way no other weapon will and by enough to make it so that its not more appealling to take something else (AC or Pulse boat). If the answer is no, then its not the fix we're looking for :)

Yurij Sobeit
Posted - 2011.05.31 15:22:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Yurij Sobeit on 31/05/2011 15:22:21
Quote:
Lets say blaster get 250% raw dps buff, mkay?

Then you take your plated or shield brutix saying yourself "mwahahahaaaaaa"

Then you see some cynabal and go get some fun.
Then the cynabal mwd and opens fire at 20km with his under powerd auto-canons, mkay?
Then your ubber brutix will look like toilet paper and all you can do is see your drones desperately try to scratch the cyna paint while you're being melted like with 250% less dps.

Thx for coming /bye



So the Brutix must be buffed until it can pwn a pirate faction cruiser, solo and brainlessly.

Makes sense.

Noisrevbus
Posted - 2011.05.31 15:25:00 - [18]
 

Before i begin picking at your post, i want you to know that i consider it one of the best posts in the thread (that may also be the reason i choose to adress it, because it does have actual level-headed arguments; which make it several times better than what you see from the usual trolls in the thread).

Originally by: General Foom

"Ship performance issues"

"Fitting issues"

"cap usage"



There isn't really any ship performance issue to speak of. You can always debate wether Minmatar should have all the snippets of prowess they do at the moment, and wether the game designers paid enough attention to overall balance when they remade the projectiles and tracking mechanics a few patches back; but beyond that Minmatar was designed with mobility in mind and apart from them Gallente are by no means slow or insufficiently mobile on a sweeping scale.

I like using the HAC's for examples because they're often in the pinnacle between subcap average size and the scaling of multiple bonuses. A Deimos can field both a 1600mm plate and an armor rig and still be faster than both Caldari HAC's unfit. Obviously, it's not going to be as agile, because that's a bit of a Caldari thing instead; but the example should still serve to prick a hole in the argument of Gallente ships being slow (too slow).

Whatever ship performance issues exist they are in most cases more directly tied to fitting issues (not letting the ships gain full potential), and in some cases, to ship bonuses.

I don't quite agree with the perspectives you take on those issues, but i do agree with the general line of thought you have. There are fitting issues, there may not be fitting issues that force them into plated tanks because the grid, cpu or slot-allocation make it more difficult to active tank them, but there are fitting issues. In fact, it's often easier to fit an active armor tank than a plated armor tank and many Gallente hulls have gratitious slots and applicable bonuses for doing a bit of everything well enough (buffer, active, etc).

However, most of them have trouble doing "a bit of everything" in another regard - and that is utilizing all their slots effectively. Hybrid platforms overall have trouble filling all their slots per standard, filling all their slots with comparative size/class module in particular, issues with downgrading standard modules and rely on being able to fill those slots comparatively to remain competetive. There's a common acceptance in the game with utility slots, that anything you can field there is useful as icing on the cake. In today's environment and on several Gallente hulls, though, they need something worthwhile there to compete. They need the option to choose top tier guns, they need the option to choose medium cap-/warfare mods and they need the option to look into drone-support modules. It's a Hybrid thing though, not just Gallente.

When you mention cap issues, you continue to focus on a result of the fitting issues and relate that to ship bonuses. Once again, i understand the logic, but i don't agree. Cap issues are only cap issues when they manifest themselves, and one odd ship bonus (active tank) that don't apply if you choose to build around it is not the end of the world either. You are right about one thing though, there are certain Gallente ships (as with all races) that also have some quirky bonuses, combination of bonuses or slot-allocation issues. I doubt anyone understand the low-mid split of the Astarte and i belive most people can see that a fall-off bonus on a Hybrid platform is never really that hot; where active bonuses are useful if you choose to go active only, range bonuses on extreme-range systems are hardly ever useful. Even if you load Null ammo in your Deimos you can never really capitalize on it. Once again, alot of this is Hybrid issues more so than Gallente issues - though Gallente often make good examples.

Darius Brinn
Iberians
Posted - 2011.05.31 15:31:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Cipher Jones
if they buff hybrids it will make non drone boat hybrids balanced, but will make the hybrid weapon drone boats OP.


That's ridiculous, and you can see why yourself.

Ishtar and Vexor are usually fit with SMALL (frigate sized) Hybrids. They have fitting issues.

Myrmidon. Now we're cooking with charcoal, right? The mighty Myrmidon CAN fit a full rack of hybrids (not usually the highest tier, but oh well). You know what else can it fit? A full rack of perfectly working and über useful AUTOCANNONS, which is what most people use, in fact.

So, why would buffing Hybrids on-par make the Myrmidon OP? They are fit with ****ing Minmatar turrets anyway!

What about the Domi? The Domi is a special case, as it can do many things and do them right. But in order to fit a full rack of high tier guns, you give up a lot of tank (usually) or other goodies. And if you can squeeze a full set of Neutron Blaster cannons on them, and pack it with Ogres II, it still does not anything a gank Typhoon cannot do.

So no. While drone boats are "acceptable", they would not be overpowered if their racial turrets were fixed.

But you know

Noisrevbus
Posted - 2011.05.31 15:45:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Noisrevbus on 31/05/2011 16:19:08

It's not that rediculous when you take in mind that, that's how it used to be Wink.

Droneboats have a tendency to do what you say now, in today's climate. That wasn't always the case though, and as other people have mentioned already, in regard to drones: that's a balancing factor now. Gallente drone boats having some use of turrets and Gallente turret platforms having some use of drones make for a good balance. You have ships that lack utility but need it, that have potential utility but can't use it and people in ships that have utility but would rather see that spent enforcing what their ship does best. That appeal is understandable, but hardly how you balance a game.

- Gallente are slow (plated), myth.
- Gallente need web bonuses, myth.
- Gallente can't hit anything, myth.
- Gallente don't do enough damage, myth.
- Gallente can't buffer tank, myth.
- Gallente Recons (or EW) is useless, myth.
- Gallente leadership bonuses are useless, myth.
- Gallente drones/turrets are not useful off-platform, myth.
- Gallente ships have fitting issues (Hybrids do; Droneboats don't, Caldari Hybrid platforms share them).

It's not as simple as fixing Hybrids make them "OP" though, so the OP need not worry - but it's a matter of "how" they are eventually fixed.

Vizvig
Posted - 2011.05.31 16:21:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Vizvig on 31/05/2011 16:22:15
Noisrevbus just troll, by your logic need completely remove drones from non gall ships for great balance.

BTW i not fly on gallente gimp-ships anymore, can't further suffer useless boats, instead of it i flying on powerful minmatars.

Quadima
Gallente
Posted - 2011.05.31 16:47:00 - [22]
 

Blasters should have range-based damage.

Shoot close = big damage
Shoot far = little damage, but still hit

I'm not talking about falloff, that is calculation for hit/miss/how much you hit.

With blasters distance to the target would be key, so ideally you would still be fighting close, however if you are far your blasters are not useless like they are now.
However this will require a change in the game engine... and a new variable for guns: Damage decay ratio ( %/km )

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.05.31 21:28:00 - [23]
 

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Myrmidons using projectiles tells the whole story TBH. I just want to see what people have to say about fixes that don't cause huge IMBA issues.

Sir Oliver Midwestshire
Amarr
Posted - 2011.05.31 22:52:00 - [24]
 

The problem with hybrids is that they don't fill a niche. There is no reason to use them because something does that task better.

Long range (target ship close to same size or larger): Missles

Long range (more DPS required): Artillery

Ship closing in or moving away (AKA range changing): Lasers

Medium range: Pulse Lasers

Target ship significantly larger or smaller: Drones

Close range: Autocannons (blasters would fit if a gallente ship was actually fast enough to get into blaster range)

These are just a few off the top of my head. Can you think of any niche a hybrid could fill where it is the best option?

The solution is not buffing the hybrid and/or hybrid ships stats, but modifying them so they fit a unique niche. Maybe keep current hybrid stats but hybrids uneffected by jamming or something? Maybe a bonus against different ship classes (ex. gallente cruiser gets bonuses against frigates and destroyers making them useful for hunting smaller ships)? I don't know. Just something that makes them unique.





Batelle
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2011.05.31 23:49:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Batelle on 31/05/2011 23:51:31
Originally by: McRoll
And then you will have the imbalance between Minmatar and Gallente because speed is Minmatar domain.


Really? Because I thought being able to hit at 24km with medium autocannons while having next-to-no fitting issues and being able to neutralize anything in sight due to capless guns while choosing any damage type was the "Minmatar domain" Mad


Crying or Very sad

Voith
Posted - 2011.05.31 23:54:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: General Foom
Edited by: General Foom on 31/05/2011 12:44:57
Originally by: Ami Nia
It really depends on how CCP fixes the hybrids. You seem to think they need to change some attribute of the hybrid turrets themselves, but I disagree. The main problem is with blasters (and therefore Galllente) and is not that the damage isn't there but that you cannot apply it. Buff Gallente speeds a little bit and buff Gallente agility a larger bit, and 90% of the blaster's imbalance will be solved.


The base speed and agility of Gallente Blaster boats is indeed an issue,
but there are many more issues compounding the problem.....such as,

"Ship performance issues"
(fitting plates and armor rigs to a ship slow it down compounding the issue of low speed and agility)
this is a drastic consequence for the Gallente ship line up as lack of damage projection requires more mobility as you have to move to your target to damage it.
this is less of an issue for Amarr Armor tankers as they can project there damage out further and their ship bonuses are more suited to Buffer tanking.
Gallente ships mostly have Active tanking bonuses so receive no added benefit from buffer tanking.....which raises the next Issue

"Fitting issues"
(getting the necessary mods onto any given blaster boat seem unnecessarily hard)
the reason people Buffer tank blaster boats as far as i can see is that the grid requirement to fit a reasonable active tank on a PVP blaster boat
just gimps its DPS too much and makes it too vulnerable to Cap warfare..hello PVP!
Blaster Boats just all seem a little Grid staved...point blank is the most demanding form of combat ..and in a slow ship..you need the grid to fit all those nifty mods..this for me is my biggest bug bear and would go the longest way to fixing "hybrids"
sh-it try fitting a full rack of highest tier rails on you blaster boat and see how much grid is left?


"cap usage"
Hybrids use cap / microwarp drive use cap / active reppers use cap /
as per what i said above...Cap boosters are also required on Blaster fits stretching Grid even tighter
looking at blaster boat cap pools might be in order..but its lower down the list.

remember no one is asking for Blaster ships to be the only PVP ship in eve
just some minor adjustments to make them more viable..

Rails on the other hand.....saving that one for later though






You're 0/3. None of those is the primary issue.

The primary issue is simply one of budget. Followed closely by a distinct lack of "CCP Giving a ****".

It is easier to design ships for two races than four.
Minmatar for PvP, caldari for PvE.

Stop fighting it.

It if pretty funny to read fitting threads from various forums and wikis when entire forums get hacked.

Choice quotes
"Stop posting Gallente fittings. Don't make us suffer because you trained Gallente"
"The answer to everything in PvE is 'More Tengus'"

Dizeezer Velar
Caldari
League of Disgruntled Fast Food Employees
Posted - 2011.06.01 00:24:00 - [27]
 

Caldari has always been king at pve, so what.

I fly legions and i'm not complaining.

Yvelt Aldurald
Posted - 2011.06.01 01:58:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Yvelt Aldurald on 01/06/2011 01:59:21
Slag off hybrids and give projectiles to gallente, lasers to caldari hybrid ships. Adjust former hybrid ship stats of these races accordingly.

Done.

Edit: Seriously hot for a tachyon rokh.

Batelle
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2011.06.01 02:18:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Yvelt Aldurald
Edited by: Yvelt Aldurald on 01/06/2011 01:59:21
Slag off hybrids and give projectiles to gallente


immediately hundreds of whines that the brutix, domi, and hype are now imba.

Yvelt Aldurald
Posted - 2011.06.01 02:27:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Batelle
Originally by: Yvelt Aldurald
Edited by: Yvelt Aldurald on 01/06/2011 01:59:21
Slag off hybrids and give projectiles to gallente


immediately hundreds of whines that the brutix, domi, and hype are now imba.


And then projectiles get the proper nerf they deserve. Voila.


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