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Calathea Sata
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.05.30 10:26:00 - [61]
 

So EVE IS REAL™ doesn't actually mean anything about how fun or enjoyable the game is but it's about your wallet being brutally squeezed dry.

Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Sanctuary Pact
Posted - 2011.05.30 10:48:00 - [62]
 

After seeing all these threads, I got to say, I love AUR. TIp my hat to you CCP, you are the master trolls of EVE.

Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
Posted - 2011.05.30 11:24:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: Halcyon Ingenium
After seeing all these threads, I got to say, I love AUR. TIp my hat to you CCP, you are the master trolls of EVE.


I would agree if this were a troll.

Andreus Ixiris
Gallente
Mixed Metaphor
Posted - 2011.05.30 11:28:00 - [64]
 

No microtransactions.
Not now, not ever.

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2011.05.30 11:47:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: Andreus Ixiris
No microtransactions.
Not now, not ever.



OMG why do people ignore my posts then post **** like this?

You can exchange real life money, for in game isk. Is this not a micro-transaction? Is this not giving a non-vanity in game advantage for money?


No one will buy AUR for cash. Would you rather make your 15$ turn into vanity items or 300-500 million isk?

Would you rather make your 15$ turn into vanity items or 300-500 million isk?

everyone that is mad wasn't at plex for isk. why? that IS a micro-transaction,

Elayae
Gallente
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
Posted - 2011.05.30 11:53:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: CCP Zulu
Aurum is created by breaking up a PLEX. Each PLEX gives you a bunch of Aurum that you can spend in the virtual goods store.


Originally by: CCP Zulu
If you're concerned at this point that this will in some way impact PLEX prices then we're ahead of you there. We'll be monitoring the PLEX market extremely closely and making sure certain equilibrium is maintained in pricing. We have various tools to ensure that, but the most important one is keeping Aurum as a separate currency with set conversion from PLEX.


Are CCP going to control PLEX prices by adjusting the number of AURUM you get for a PLEX?

P.S. Repeating myself from an earlier post but I have not seen an answer to this yet.

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2011.05.30 11:55:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: Elayae
Originally by: CCP Zulu
Aurum is created by breaking up a PLEX. Each PLEX gives you a bunch of Aurum that you can spend in the virtual goods store.


Originally by: CCP Zulu
If you're concerned at this point that this will in some way impact PLEX prices then we're ahead of you there. We'll be monitoring the PLEX market extremely closely and making sure certain equilibrium is maintained in pricing. We have various tools to ensure that, but the most important one is keeping Aurum as a separate currency with set conversion from PLEX.


Are CCP going to control PLEX prices by adjusting the number of AURUM you get for a PLEX?

P.S. Repeating myself from an earlier post but I have not seen an answer to this yet.


Getting Aurum for plex will never give as big an advantage has trading the plex for isk.

the only people that will trade a plex for Aurum are people who bought the plex for isk.

Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
Posted - 2011.05.30 12:00:00 - [68]
 

Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: Andreus Ixiris
No microtransactions.
Not now, not ever.



OMG why do people ignore my posts then post **** like this?

You can exchange real life money, for in game isk. Is this not a micro-transaction? Is this not giving a non-vanity in game advantage for money?


No one will buy AUR for cash. Would you rather make your 15$ turn into vanity items or 300-500 million isk?

Would you rather make your 15$ turn into vanity items or 300-500 million isk?

everyone that is mad wasn't at plex for isk. why? that IS a micro-transaction,
Plex for isk isn't a microtransaction. Plex = Subscription time, therefor by definition is not an after-subscription commodity bought with real money.

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2011.05.30 12:01:00 - [69]
 

Originally by: Blane Xero
Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: Andreus Ixiris
No microtransactions.
Not now, not ever.



OMG why do people ignore my posts then post **** like this?

You can exchange real life money, for in game isk. Is this not a micro-transaction? Is this not giving a non-vanity in game advantage for money?


No one will buy AUR for cash. Would you rather make your 15$ turn into vanity items or 300-500 million isk?

Would you rather make your 15$ turn into vanity items or 300-500 million isk?

everyone that is mad wasn't at plex for isk. why? that IS a micro-transaction,
Plex for isk isn't a microtransaction. Plex = Subscription time, therefor by definition is not an after-subscription commodity bought with real money.


Then trading plex for Aurum is not a microtransaction

Elayae
Gallente
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
Posted - 2011.05.30 12:02:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: Elayae
Originally by: CCP Zulu
Aurum is created by breaking up a PLEX. Each PLEX gives you a bunch of Aurum that you can spend in the virtual goods store.


Originally by: CCP Zulu
If you're concerned at this point that this will in some way impact PLEX prices then we're ahead of you there. We'll be monitoring the PLEX market extremely closely and making sure certain equilibrium is maintained in pricing. We have various tools to ensure that, but the most important one is keeping Aurum as a separate currency with set conversion from PLEX.


Are CCP going to control PLEX prices by adjusting the number of AURUM you get for a PLEX?

P.S. Repeating myself from an earlier post but I have not seen an answer to this yet.


Getting Aurum for plex will never give as big an advantage has trading the plex for isk.

the only people that will trade a plex for Aurum are people who bought the plex for isk.


Well you can also control the AURUM price by adjusting the number you get for PLEX so indirectly influencing PLEX prices. Well that is how I see it. Very Happy

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2011.05.30 12:05:00 - [71]
 

Right I really don't think ccp expects ANYONE to buy a plex with cash with turning it into Aurum in mind. Unless Aurum happens to have higher isk value at the time.

In the end it gives a double sided scale in which to balance plex prices. Calling it Mirco-transactions is just a way of making it make sense.

If plex is really expensive, then trade your plex you bought for isk!

If plex is cheap, trade your plex for Aurum and sell the 1000 pairs of pants it buys you on the market for more isk than the plex would of given you.



TADA

balance

Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
Posted - 2011.05.30 12:07:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: Blane Xero
Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: Andreus Ixiris
No microtransactions.
Not now, not ever.



OMG why do people ignore my posts then post **** like this?

You can exchange real life money, for in game isk. Is this not a micro-transaction? Is this not giving a non-vanity in game advantage for money?


No one will buy AUR for cash. Would you rather make your 15$ turn into vanity items or 300-500 million isk?

Would you rather make your 15$ turn into vanity items or 300-500 million isk?

everyone that is mad wasn't at plex for isk. why? that IS a micro-transaction,
Plex for isk isn't a microtransaction. Plex = Subscription time, therefor by definition is not an after-subscription commodity bought with real money.


Then trading plex for Aurum is not a microtransaction
Yes it is. Because AURUM has nothing to do with the subscription, which is kind of entirely what people are taking issue with.

Nothing bought with AURUM can come into the game without real money being spent, therefor, the items to do with AURUM are behind a paywall. Therefor, items gained via AURUM (or rather, AURUM itself) is a Microtransaction. Plex really has nothing to do with it once you take into account PLEX mechanics are not changing, AURUM is just being tacked onto it as an extended feature.

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2011.05.30 12:16:00 - [73]
 

Edited by: MotherMoon on 30/05/2011 12:18:05
Originally by: Blane Xero


Yes it is. Because AURUM has nothing to do with the subscription, which is kind of entirely what people are taking issue with.





So if I trade Plex for aurum it's not ok because aurum has nothing to do with my subscription...

but if I trade it for isk it's ok because isk has everything to with my subscription?

I can trade isk I earned on my own for aurum, does that make it bad?


Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
Posted - 2011.05.30 12:31:00 - [74]
 

Originally by: MotherMoon
So if I trade Plex for aurum it's not ok because aurum has nothing to do with my subscription...


Exactly.

Originally by: MotherMoon
but if I trade it for isk it's ok because isk has everything to with my subscription?


Right now, yes, because eventually the PLEX will be redeemed for sub time, or, in a small percentage of cases, other services (Char transfer) that don't affect the game any more than if they had not been used for it.

Originally by: MotherMoon
I can trade isk I earned on my own for aurum, does that make it bad?
You can only trade isk for AURUM when someone has redeemed plex for AURUM, in which case, refer to my previous statement about PLEX > AURUM being Microtransaction.

Let me make this crystal clear:

Buy Plex (RL$/£), sell for Isk = Plex changes hands. Isk changes hands = No microtransaction.
Buy Plex (RL$/£), exchange for Aurum = Plex consumed (Money consumed). Aurum gained = Microtransaction
Isk > Aurum = Isk changes hands, aurum changes hands. By itself, not a microtransaction.

In either case if you buy the PLEX with isk, the burden of who enacts the microtransation is just shifted to the owner of the PLEX at the time.

I really hope it makes sense.

Tenaj
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
Posted - 2011.05.30 13:07:00 - [75]
 

Edited by: Tenaj on 30/05/2011 13:09:45
As other people have said in this and other posts on the subject the bottom line here is that CCP will accept money to give you a leg up in the game. it's an immoral, unethical and plain greedy act, with a level of diregard for the integrity of the game that would make FIFA blush. And yes, you can dress it up with names like PLEX, Aurum and present me with little pictures and flow diagrams, but the whole thing is a steamy great turd that ain't ever gonna become a sugar cube no matter how much you try and make it look like one.

CCP stop ****ing about, respect my intelligence and just let me pay a GM £9.99 via paypal for a Navy raven, then put it in my hangar and be done with it, and everyone knows where everyone stands and we all either stay or we go. Have the balls to be open about your greed instead of trying to sell me the idea that tapping me up for extra cash is some kind of "game feature" and maybe you'd get some respect.

Adrian Idaho
Posted - 2011.05.30 13:31:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: Blane Xero
rabble rabble rabble

Confirming that writing a rant in big, red letters makes your point more convincing and legitimate.

Originally by: Tenaj
As other people have said in this and other posts on the subject the bottom line here is that CCP will accept money to give you a leg up in the game. it's an immoral, unethical and plain greedy act, with a level of diregard for the integrity of the game that would make FIFA blush. And yes, you can dress it up with names like PLEX, Aurum and present me with little pictures and flow diagrams, but the whole thing is a steamy great turd that ain't ever gonna become a sugar cube no matter how much you try and make it look like one.

By that logic you would also demand that CCP forbids players to have more than one account. After all, you give CCP more money (the second subscription fee) and get an in-game advantage in return (the second account, which has a Falcon pilot Very Happy).

I don't like brown-nosing, but I have to say: once again Akita says it best. If you have a problem with Aurum, then you have to have a problem with PLEX, too, otherwise you're a either a hypocrite, or unable to understand the connections, or both.

And why shouldn't you be rewarded for paying more for the game (by selling GTCs/PLEX or by having a second account)? You show more dedication. After all, if you show more dedication by playing the game more, you're also rewarded. You can make up for not being able to sell PLEX by being smarter and/or more hard-working in-game and thus earning more ISK. Of course, if you're poor and neither smart nor hard-working, then you're ****ed (just like in real life). And I'm saying this even though I've bought and used more PLEX from the market than I've sold.

Heck, I even go so far as to say: offer remaps for PLEX! If you can't/don't want to afford buying a GTC, then you can earn your remap by playing the game and gathering ISK. If you don't want to do either of these, then you don't deserve your additional remap.

Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Sanctuary Pact
Posted - 2011.05.30 13:42:00 - [77]
 

Originally by: Tenaj
Edited by: Tenaj on 30/05/2011 13:09:45CCP will accept money to give you a leg up in the game. it's an immoral, unethical and plain greedy act


Greed? Yes, congratulations, you just figured out the primary motivator for doing anything, ever.

Immoral and unethical? Not really. I would say more but you didn't point out how it was immoral or unethical.

Ludacrys
Posted - 2011.05.30 13:48:00 - [78]
 

CCP is being clever with their circle of plex/currency graphic.

http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/2011/currencyCycle.jpg

The thing about this Cycle is that it only works one way, PLEXES are always removed from the game, Lots of plexes are going to be converted to AUR, yes AUR can be sold for ISK and ISK used to buy ANOTHER PLEX, but this only removes more plex from the market again.
As Aur cannot be made back into plex and AUR cannot be used to pay the subscription the only one who wins here is CCP (and the people that buy PLEX FOR CASH, if you can call that winning)

This whole scheme is basically a huge PLEX sink, dont let the "cycle" fool you, it only works one way

Dave Day
Amarr
Universal Freelance
CONSORTIUM UNIVERSALIS
Posted - 2011.05.30 13:50:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: Adrian Idaho
Heck, I even go so far as to say: offer remaps for PLEX! If you can't/don't want to afford buying a GTC, then you can earn your remap by playing the game and gathering ISK. If you don't want to do either of these, then you don't deserve your additional remap.


And if you can't /don't want to learn to drive, you can buy a fake licence. If you can't / don't want to train for athletics you can take steroids. So in effect, to hell with everyone who would ever make a genuine and worthwhile effort to attain anything that can simply be bought without merit. God help your kids when you buy them all the winners medals at their school sports day mate.

Tenaj
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
Posted - 2011.05.30 13:55:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: Halcyon Ingenium
Originally by: Tenaj
Edited by: Tenaj on 30/05/2011 13:09:45CCP will accept money to give you a leg up in the game. it's an immoral, unethical and plain greedy act


Greed? Yes, congratulations, you just figured out the primary motivator for doing anything, ever.

Immoral and unethical? Not really. I would say more but you didn't point out how it was immoral or unethical.


I would have thought it was glaringly obvious and that i did in fact spell it out in some detail, but i'll try and break it down for you...Ready?.. Putting finacial gain above the integrity of the game and players who are prepared to make a genuine effort being disadvanted by players who are too lazy to actually earn what they need is immoral and unethical.....How's that?

Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Sanctuary Pact
Posted - 2011.05.30 14:02:00 - [81]
 

Originally by: Tenaj
Originally by: Halcyon Ingenium
Originally by: Tenaj
Edited by: Tenaj on 30/05/2011 13:09:45CCP will accept money to give you a leg up in the game. it's an immoral, unethical and plain greedy act


Greed? Yes, congratulations, you just figured out the primary motivator for doing anything, ever.

Immoral and unethical? Not really. I would say more but you didn't point out how it was immoral or unethical.


I would have thought it was glaringly obvious and that i did in fact spell it out in some detail, but i'll try and break it down for you...Ready?.. Putting finacial gain above the integrity of the game and players who are prepared to make a genuine effort being disadvanted by players who are too lazy to actually earn what they need is immoral and unethical.....How's that?


Still a poor effort. Your still asking me to accept as axiomatic that financial gain and game integrity are mutually exclusive and that cash over effort is a definite disadvantage, let alone the fact that socks as far as I can see impart no advantage in pvp, unless they are very cozy socks, then maybe.

Adrian Idaho
Posted - 2011.05.30 15:25:00 - [82]
 

Edited by: Adrian Idaho on 30/05/2011 15:30:29
Originally by: Dave Day
Originally by: Adrian Idaho
Heck, I even go so far as to say: offer remaps for PLEX! If you can't/don't want to afford buying a GTC, then you can earn your remap by playing the game and gathering ISK. If you don't want to do either of these, then you don't deserve your additional remap.


And if you can't /don't want to learn to drive, you can buy a fake licence. If you can't / don't want to train for athletics you can take steroids. So in effect, to hell with everyone who would ever make a genuine and worthwhile effort to attain anything that can simply be bought without merit. God help your kids when you buy them all the winners medals at their school sports day mate.

Wow, your response was an excellent example for straw man arguments and reductios ad absurdum.
  • Buying a fake driver's license doesn't teach you how to drive.

  • Taking steroids doesn't make you a good athlete, it can only give you a slight advantage over someone with the same talent and who's been training as much as did.

  • Your example with the medals is akin to buying killmails with PLEX. Buying ISK through PLEX, however, is rather like buying good running shoes for my kids. Is that immoral as well?

  • Buying a faction BS with PLEX does not give you an I Win button.

Tell me, a you in favor of prohibiting more than one account per player, too?

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.05.30 16:00:00 - [83]
 

Originally by: Ludacrys
CCP is being clever with their circle of plex/currency graphic.
http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/2011/currencyCycle.jpg
This whole scheme is basically a huge PLEX sink, dont let the "cycle" fool you, it only works one way

True, it's a PLEX sink.
And the more appropriate flowchart looks something like this:

time
|
pla|yers
|
v
/----> ISK <-----\
| ^ |
play|ers | pla|yers
| | |
v pl|a- v
$$$ ---> PLEX ye|rs AUR items
v | ^
| | |
sys|tem | sys|tem
| v |
\----> AUR >-----/

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2011.05.30 21:37:00 - [84]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Ludacrys
CCP is being clever with their circle of plex/currency graphic.
http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/devblog/2011/currencyCycle.jpg
This whole scheme is basically a huge PLEX sink, dont let the "cycle" fool you, it only works one way

True, it's a PLEX sink.
And the more appropriate flowchart looks something like this:

time
|
pla|yers
|
v
/----> ISK <-----\
| ^ |
play|ers | pla|yers
| | |
v pl|a- v
$$$ ---> PLEX ye|rs AUR items
v | ^
| | |
sys|tem | sys|tem
| v |
\----> AUR >-----/




This is all I've been saying! lol

CCP don't expecting people to pour real money into these MT. They expect people to pour isk into plex, into Aurum. thus destroying plex.


We'll see if it works or if it's terrible. but it won't be terrible because there is a way to buy vanity items.

Skydell
Caldari
Space Mermaids
Posted - 2011.05.30 22:00:00 - [85]
 

Originally by: MotherMoon

Getting Aurum for plex will never give as big an advantage has trading the plex for isk.

the only people that will trade a plex for Aurum are people who bought the plex for isk.


Keep in mind 90% of EVE is alleged to be notorious caebear.

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2011.05.30 22:08:00 - [86]
 

Originally by: Skydell
Originally by: MotherMoon

Getting Aurum for plex will never give as big an advantage has trading the plex for isk.

the only people that will trade a plex for Aurum are people who bought the plex for isk.


Keep in mind 90% of EVE is alleged to be notorious caebear.


actully, considering that, there is a chance that there are 1000s of players that will trade isk for plex day one, and destroy the plex market xD


Mara Rinn
Posted - 2011.05.30 22:42:00 - [87]
 

Originally by: MotherMoon
actully, considering that, there is a chance that there are 1000s of players that will trade isk for plex day one, and destroy the plex market xD


How does severely inflating the price of PLEX constitute "destroying" the PLEX market? Check out the prices of PLEX since the MT store was announced :)

As for the argument about the "ethics" of Aurum, it boggles my mind that people are quite happy for other players to gain an ingame advantage from playing for 18 hours a day, but they whine and complain if other players gain an ingame advantage from spending the salary of 2 hours of their work day, when they only play 3 hours a day.

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2011.05.30 23:02:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: Mara Rinn
Originally by: MotherMoon
actully, considering that, there is a chance that there are 1000s of players that will trade isk for plex day one, and destroy the plex market xD


How does severely inflating the price of PLEX constitute "destroying" the PLEX market? Check out the prices of PLEX since the MT store was announced :)

As for the argument about the "ethics" of Aurum, it boggles my mind that people are quite happy for other players to gain an ingame advantage from playing for 18 hours a day, but they whine and complain if other players gain an ingame advantage from spending the salary of 2 hours of their work day, when they only play 3 hours a day.




because what just happen i jita was the speculative market. plex turned into Aurum destroys said plex, while other players destroy their plex to make game time. The more used up lex the more the market will change.

Right now it's all been speculative trading. all of the plex that were bought were not turned into game time. Just being held by people that want a profit.

Vincent Athena
Posted - 2011.05.31 05:04:00 - [89]
 

Originally by: CCP Spitfire
Originally by: Skydell
I am assuming you can only obtain Aurm from RMT? I can't sell another player Aurum for ISK?



Yep, you can.




OK, we can give others aurum. But will we be able to put up aurum buy and sell orders? Will be be able to contract it?


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