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Avy Alvhenor
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2011.06.01 23:46:00 - [1411]
 

Originally by: Kerrisone
Originally by: Renan Ruivo

The problem is that companies tend to become dependant upon the income generated by their cash stores. It is heavy income, after all entire F2P games are funded that way.

And you always want to increase your income source, so they'll add more and more itens to the store. It might not be game-affecting, but it will be something that will be brainwashed into everyone's mind so that they'll feel like buying it. And that, is the best case scenario.

CCP will feel more and more need to keep their cash store updated with new goods, therefore they will divert man-power from the T3 laboratories to this piece of dung.



This is good post.


No, it's FUD. You're worried about CCP "brainwashing" you?

The whole point of the Aurum vanity items is so CCP can keep paying the artists they have to develop all the 3D content to fill this new Incarna without pulling resources from core development. Otherwise they'd have to lay off all the artists and have a stale, empty 3D world or significantly raise subscription fees.

What do you think higher subscription fees would do to the price of PLEX? Sheesh, you people should be grateful CCP is giving you all this new fancy content without making you pay more (or any) cash for it!!!

And if they're not making any new content, features, or fixing any bugs that affect subscription payers, then people will cancel subscriptions and CCP will lose money. These fears of yours are completely irrational.

For example, airlines are making more and more revenue charging fees for secondary services like checked baggage, food, drinks, traveling with children or pets, etc. This allows them to keep the basic flight charges relatively low for people who don't need any of that extra stuff, even in the face of rising fuel, security, and regulatory costs. Now, is anyone worried that United Airlines will put all of its resources into improving their for-pay beverage service and stop, you know, flying airplanes?

CCP isn't going to do this stuff at the expense of their core customers. As I've said over and over, CCP has had eight years to screw you. Get over it already!

So take a few deep breaths and learn some basic economics. I'd be happy to teach you, might even be willing to work for isk. Wink


Kerrisone
Posted - 2011.06.01 23:53:00 - [1412]
 

Originally by: Avy Alvhenor
Originally by: Kerrisone
Originally by: Renan Ruivo

The problem is that companies tend to become dependant upon the income generated by their cash stores. It is heavy income, after all entire F2P games are funded that way.

And you always want to increase your income source, so they'll add more and more itens to the store. It might not be game-affecting, but it will be something that will be brainwashed into everyone's mind so that they'll feel like buying it. And that, is the best case scenario.

CCP will feel more and more need to keep their cash store updated with new goods, therefore they will divert man-power from the T3 laboratories to this piece of dung.



This is good post.


No, it's FUD. You're worried about CCP "brainwashing" you?
CCP isn't going to do this stuff at the expense of their core customers. As I've said over and over, CCP has had eight years to screw you. Get over it already!

So take a few deep breaths and learn some basic economics. I'd be happy to teach you, might even be willing to work for isk. Wink




Nope, says you, and no thanks you seem to have your hands full here with Olivia et al spinning your messaging.

Olivia Berett
Caldari
Brasfleet Networking Co.
Posted - 2011.06.01 23:57:00 - [1413]
 

Lets see, the people who attack my posts are basically:

- Distorting what CCP wrote long ago using the chance that no one is smart enought to put together 3 key words to find out what CCP really said;
- Distorting what CCP devs are doing to look bad;
- Distorting what I say to drive my point towards a null direction;
- Basing in assumptions and arguments easly nulified by a basic knowledge of programming, computers, market and management;

And I am the one who doesnt accept any point of view other than my own.

That is for sure what smart people do ...right ?

Doc Fury
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.02 00:03:00 - [1414]
 

Originally by: Olivia Berett
Edited by: Olivia Berett on 01/06/2011 23:48:37
Originally by: Doc Fury

What exactly does any of that wall of text have to do with Plex for gold, MT, CQ, or vanity items? Ya' know, the actual topic of this thread? This thread isn't about Incarna as a whole, or new graphics, your life experiences, blind faith in CCP to do the right thing, or any of the other crap you keep spewing on about. You don't have any inside information or any special insight about their development process or goals, and you definitely have no idea what CCP has planned for later.

You are not quoting anyone and are still posting non sequitur nonsense. I truly think you just post here try to convince others you are smart. I know a lot of other "teachers" who do that too.

If CCP says they will never do something, count on them doing it sooner than later, most of their promises to "never" do something turn out to be lip service. Those who fail to learn from the past are doomed to repeat it.



Doc, You usually make good arguments. This time, it is an empty one. But I wont try to counter it because, simply, there is not to counter, because there is no argument in there.

Kerrisone, I just see things objectively. People get emotional and make points mostly about their view of the game in simplistic ways. You wont have a fair point when you fuel your arguments with your malcontent or comparing different things as if they were equal.


I didn't make an argument, I stated the truth. I and others are just waiting for you to either get back on point and stay there, or for you to stop posting, whichever comes first.

Your self-proclaimed objectivity notwithstanding, you continue to come across here as a child with their fingers in their ears who loudly proclaims "la la la la la la" whenever they hear something contrary to their fixated viewpoint.





Olivia Berett
Caldari
Brasfleet Networking Co.
Posted - 2011.06.02 00:13:00 - [1415]
 

Edited by: Olivia Berett on 02/06/2011 00:13:15
From the point of view of an absolute iliterate, a text directing to a free restaurant to a company employee will seem a useless piece of paper. For those who know how to read, is the mean to find a feature of their company which is the solution of a problem.

And probably the iliterate would make a point to his superior like:
"Why instead of spending money in useless papers, you dont give us free meal yet that we work so hard and have little time to go home for lunch."

As the iliterate is stubborn, if the one who knows how to read explain that the paper is to inform them where is a place to eat for free nearby, the iliterate would probably say that "You cant accept my complain and try to show are smart because you know how to read ?"

Cant believe this one you didnt get.

Kuroki Meisa Kennedy
Posted - 2011.06.02 00:22:00 - [1416]
 

I like the idea of items used in walking in stations to be sold by players on a marketplace for isk. Any word on when these markets will open?

Doc Fury
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.02 00:23:00 - [1417]
 

Originally by: Olivia Berett
Edited by: Olivia Berett on 02/06/2011 00:13:15
From the point of view of an absolute iliterate, a text directing to a free restaurant to a company employee will seem a useless piece of paper. For those who know how to read, is the mean to find a feature of their company which is the solution of a problem.

And probably the iliterate would make a point to his superior like:
"Why instead of spending money in useless papers, you dont give us free meal yet that we work so hard and have little time to go home for lunch."

As the iliterate is stubborn, if the one who knows how to read explain that the paper is to inform them where is a place to eat for free nearby, the iliterate would probably say that "You cant accept my complain and try to show are smart because you know how to read ?"

Cant believe this one you didnt get.


Who exactly is the audience for this? You quote no-one so one must assume you are talking to yourself.

/+1 for keeping whatever this has to do with MT, plex to gold, and vanity items to below 12 lines of text during your last edit. Literates and illiterates alike also often glaze over and become deaf when some people speak at great length without saying anything relevant to the discussion.



Olivia Berett
Caldari
Brasfleet Networking Co.
Posted - 2011.06.02 00:24:00 - [1418]
 

Edited by: Olivia Berett on 02/06/2011 00:26:06
Originally by: Kuroki Meisa Kennedy
I like the idea of items used in walking in stations to be sold by players on a marketplace for isk. Any word on when these markets will open?


21th all that is duality will go to tranquility.

Probably with more adequate prices in AUR, but as soon as the first people buy using AUR, sure many people will start the ISK market aswell.
________________________________________________________________________________

Doc, again, no argument in your post.
You just saying that you dont know what it has to do, but the fact that you dont know what it has to do with it all, doesnt mean it doesnt.

Persephone 66
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.02 01:10:00 - [1419]
 

Well if it has not been said, griefers are going to love this.

I was playing around with Incarna on duality. I like the Captain's Quarters, I really think CCP did a fine job. However, I did take a PLEX and convert it to Aurum. Let's take a look at a few things concerning that.

1 PLEX = 3500 Aurum

PLEX is currently selling for 406 million ISK in Dodixie.

406,000,000 / 3,500 = 116,000

I bought a pair of goggles in the store for my character in the store for 1 AUR. So I paid 116,000 ISK for a pair of goggles. That's a pretty average price for a pretty average frigate, making these one expensive pair of goggles.

Over the last month the price of PLEX on the market has been on an upward spike. If this trend continues, PLEX will be over 500 million ISK by the time Incarna goes live. I suspect after the release it will continue on more of an upward trend. This means the value of AUR and the items purchased with it will increase as well.

I don't think it is unreasonable to forsee a market value of store items going in to the millions of ISK. I also don't think it is unreasonable to forsee the market value of PLEX increasing as well, even approaching a billion ISK.

That being said, soon one can buy 2 PLEX and make a billion ISK without even really playing the game. In a few months, it will just take 1 PLEX. This will drive up the cost of everything on the market.

Thanks CCP, you did us a real solid.

And, getting back to what I openned with, the only way I see to put on your new clothing items is to go through the character customisation. Which means you have to take a new picture for the change to take. Which means if you buy anything that shows in the picture, you are advertising that you have expensive items on you that are going to be destoyed if you get podded. Makes it easier for greifers to know who to get the best ransoms from. Or the most tears.

Olivia Berett
Caldari
Brasfleet Networking Co.
Posted - 2011.06.02 01:26:00 - [1420]
 

The prices are still to be decided. The 1 Aur and the ammount of Aur for a plex is said to not be decided yet.

The fact that aways you change you need to take a new picture is really annoying. They should make the two things apart. In the mirror you change your clothing, in another place, maybe a camera or a photo booth, you change the picture.

Persephone 66
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.02 01:57:00 - [1421]
 

Originally by: Olivia Berett
The prices are still to be decided. The 1 Aur and the ammount of Aur for a plex is said to not be decided yet.

The fact that aways you change you need to take a new picture is really annoying. They should make the two things apart. In the mirror you change your clothing, in another place, maybe a camera or a photo booth, you change the picture.


So it's quite possible that vanity items will have a market value in the millions.

Persephone 66
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.02 02:06:00 - [1422]
 

Just my 0.02 ISK, the clothing items should be able to be produced by players using blueprints (patterns?) and resources from Planetary Interaction. Not only does this make more sense, it encourages more use of PI and does not greatly impact the market or the value of ISK.

Avy Alvhenor
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2011.06.02 04:50:00 - [1423]
 

Originally by: Persephone 66
Just my 0.02 ISK, the clothing items should be able to be produced by players using blueprints (patterns?) and resources from Planetary Interaction. Not only does this make more sense, it encourages more use of PI and does not greatly impact the market or the value of ISK.

We may get there eventually. This is just a first step, remember, and CCP wants to tread cautiously, slowly introducing new Incarna features so as not to mess up the rest of the game too much.

Originally by: Persephone 66

Over the last month the price of PLEX on the market has been on an upward spike. If this trend continues, PLEX will be over 500 million ISK by the time Incarna goes live. I suspect after the release it will continue on more of an upward trend. This means the value of AUR and the items purchased with it will increase as well.

I don't think it is unreasonable to forsee a market value of store items going in to the millions of ISK. I also don't think it is unreasonable to forsee the market value of PLEX increasing as well, even approaching a billion ISK.

That being said, soon one can buy 2 PLEX and make a billion ISK without even really playing the game. In a few months, it will just take 1 PLEX. This will drive up the cost of everything on the market.

Thanks CCP, you did us a real solid.


Lots of people are concerned about inflation in the EVE economy. That's one of the reasons why CCP hired a Ph.D. economist, and that's something they're going to be keeping a close eye on with the new Aurum system. In fact the new system will give them more control over the money supply in EVE--more tools to help fight inflation. For example, all these new items can be destroyed, making them an isk sink which should help.

But really the biggest cause of inflation in EVE seems to be the overly-generous mission system, pumping tons of isk into the economy that play-for-payers grind for PLEX. Grinding by mining and other activities that create resources instead of pumping isk out of NPCs puts downward pressure on prices. Given the recent major simplifications of the agent system as well as the new agent finder interface, I expect CCP has some bigger changes in mind for missioning. The so-called "insurance" system is another problem.

So all you play-for-payers, do us all a favor and avoid grinding missions!

Spuzum
Posted - 2011.06.02 05:18:00 - [1424]
 

Why the new vanity items aur currency. Why not just add clothes to the eve market place and buy/sell with isk. Textiles is already a market commodity in eve. It wouldn't be difficult to seed blueprints.Question

Elda Amamiya
Posted - 2011.06.02 05:26:00 - [1425]
 

Originally by: Spuzum
Why the new vanity items aur currency. Why not just add clothes to the eve market place and buy/sell with isk. Textiles is already a market commodity in eve. It wouldn't be difficult to seed blueprints.Question


Because doing it Aurum way will make more money for CCP to pay for their artists to make better vanity items.

Elda Amamiya
Posted - 2011.06.02 05:28:00 - [1426]
 

Edited by: Elda Amamiya on 02/06/2011 05:29:01
Originally by: Doc Fury


Who exactly is the audience for this? You quote no-one so one must assume you are talking to yourself.

/+1 for keeping whatever this has to do with MT, plex to gold, and vanity items to below 12 lines of text during your last edit. Literates and illiterates alike also often glaze over and become deaf when some people speak at great length without saying anything relevant to the discussion.




I dont think you always have to quote someone. Some statements are general and have no need to be directed at someone directly.

Spuzum
Posted - 2011.06.02 05:29:00 - [1427]
 

Originally by: CCP Incognito
Edited by: CCP Incognito on 27/05/2011 13:29:20
Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab
What exactly are those PLEX price equilibrium forcing tools?

E.g. when you say 'set conversion rate' is that ever going to be adjusted or will it always remain constant? And will it be possible to convert from AUR->PLEX and will AUR be on the market like PLEX?


The Aurum can be converted to plex by selling stuff you bought with Aurum for Isk, and using the Isk to buy Plex.

The Aurum are a new currency and will be stored in your wallet like Isk is.


I see even more market scams with confusion over multiple currencies. Thank you, CPP.

Spuzum
Posted - 2011.06.02 05:31:00 - [1428]
 

Originally by: Elda Amamiya
Originally by: Spuzum
Why the new vanity items aur currency. Why not just add clothes to the eve market place and buy/sell with isk. Textiles is already a market commodity in eve. It wouldn't be difficult to seed blueprints.Question


Because doing it Aurum way will make more money for CCP to pay for their artists to make better vanity items.


Why do we need CPP to make the vanity items? Can't cpp design it so it can be crafted?Very Happy

Avy Alvhenor
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2011.06.02 06:07:00 - [1429]
 

Originally by: Spuzum

Why do we need CPP to make the vanity items? Can't cpp design it so it can be crafted?Very Happy

It hardly costs anything to make millions of virtual copies of something once it's designed. It's the designing that's costly, duh.

If any of you had read up to the third paragraph of the dev blog it's clearly explained this is so CCP can pay artists to make all kinds of nice 3D stuff for Incarna, appropriate to the game world (user-created content please no!), and without having to raise subscription fees.

Would it be fair to raise subscription fees of everyone not to fix bugs or add real features or story content but purely for vanity items that have no real function or benefit in game and that only a fraction of players even care about? And you think there's screaming now?

In my brief foray into these forums I've discovered there's simply no pleasing a certain segment of players, many of whom aren't even paying for the dang game. No matter what CCP adds or fixes, they're only going to make the game worse somehow. Where do you think this game we all love came from in the first place? Let CCP keep making it better, and don't sweat the small stuff. I myself can't believe there's still no undo in text boxes after 8 years. But one day soon, with the new UI framework under the hood yesterday, we'll be able to do things like change font sizes. Give it time. And money to CCP helps too.

Morar Santee
Posted - 2011.06.02 07:31:00 - [1430]
 

Originally by: Avy Alvhenor
I didn't read the linked post or didn't understand it. But I'm still full of ****e.

Okay, I guess that was predictable. The sheer amount of crap in your posts should've been an indicator you wouldn't be able to follow it. Then again, I really don't have to do much to point out you are a moron, since you're doing a pretty fine job of it yourself. Fine with me, as it's saving me time.

Your obvious idiocy aside, I think it's humorous you are raging about people who "earn ISK for you" because you're seemingly incapable of playing an online game. I really wonder who's the bigger ******: The guy who can fund his gaming habit simply by being good at it, or the guy who's too stupid to play the game and has to pay double in order to have in-game currency.
Here's a hint, though: It's all the same to CCP, as they're paid on a "per account" basis. They earn 15$ per active account, and miss PLEX users and PLEX sellers all the same, as the in-game market (which is the incentive to buy PLEXes with cash in the first place) relies on both to function. So no, CCP doesn't give a **** you suck at playing their game and spend an additional 30$ a month on PLEX. Sorry.

But since I do feel a bit bad for you, here's a hint free of charge: Start over studying something other than economics. You suck at that, too.

Elda Amamiya
Posted - 2011.06.02 08:02:00 - [1431]
 

Edited by: Elda Amamiya on 02/06/2011 08:06:51

Originally by: Morar Santee
The guy who can fund his gaming habit simply by being good at it, or the guy who's too stupid to play the game and has to pay double in order to have in-game currency.


What is the connection?? Selling PLEX for ISK doesnt mean you are suck at game and cant earn in-game currency.

While you can make 100$++ an hour (which cover 6+ PLEXs) you dont have any need to grind for hours for the same amount of ISK. lol

I dont think it that difficult to judge who is more stupid between who can fund his/her game by playing it or who can earn more $$$ and fund his/her game.

Morar Santee
Posted - 2011.06.02 08:37:00 - [1432]
 

Originally by: Elda Amamiya
Edited by: Elda Amamiya on 02/06/2011 08:06:51

Originally by: Morar Santee
The guy who can fund his gaming habit simply by being good at it, or the guy who's too stupid to play the game and has to pay double in order to have in-game currency.


What is the connection?? Selling PLEX for ISK doesnt mean you are suck at game and cant earn in-game currency.

While you can make 100$++ an hour (which cover 6+ PLEXs) you dont have any need to grind for hours for the same amount of ISK. lol

I dont think it that difficult to judge who is more stupid between who can fund his/her game by playing it or who can earn more $$$ and fund his/her game.


Yup. As I said, if you suck at playing the game and can't compete without throwing RL money at it to fix that problem / get you where you want.. it's all good. I mean, that's why we're playing an MMO, after all. To compete with other players online by investing $$$.

I do know a few people who are exceptionally good at playing EVE and simply can't be bothered with funding their more expensive in-game habits by earning ISK through in-game means. The difference between those people and Avy/yourself is roughly 20 IQ points and the fact they don't have such a worthless attitude and/or personality.

Elda Amamiya
Posted - 2011.06.02 08:51:00 - [1433]
 

May I ask.. In what criteria is to judge is something worth or worthless ?

Avy Alvhenor
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2011.06.02 08:58:00 - [1434]
 

Originally by: Morar Santee

Cursing, name-calling, mindless insults


This is why I wish EVE was still a pay-only game, keeps the riff raff out. Christ it's like public transportation in here any more. I don't even know what your problem is, Morar, but do yourself a favor and take your Ritalin when Mom lets you out of the basement.

Morar Santee
Posted - 2011.06.02 09:02:00 - [1435]
 

Originally by: Elda Amamiya
May I ask.. In what criteria is to judge is something worth or worthless ?

See above. It's that simple.

Elda Amamiya
Posted - 2011.06.02 09:05:00 - [1436]
 

Originally by: Morar Santee
Originally by: Elda Amamiya
May I ask.. In what criteria is to judge is something worth or worthless ?

See above. It's that simple.


May I ask... For a direct answer ?

Morar Santee
Posted - 2011.06.02 09:23:00 - [1437]
 

Originally by: Elda Amamiya
Originally by: Morar Santee
Originally by: Elda Amamiya
May I ask.. In what criteria is to judge is something worth or worthless ?

See above. It's that simple.


May I ask... For a direct answer ?


Alright. So let's have a look at the facts:

N accounts are being paid for via PLEXes.
CCP receives Nx15$ due to this.
Without people using PLEXes, CCP would receive (N-X)x15$.
(That's because a number would of course go back to paying with a regular subscription.)
Both PLEX sellers and buyers are part of the same equation, which creates revenue for CCP and keeps EVE running. There's no difference.

But for some reason, Avy insists on somehow being "worth more" or "contributing more" than any of the players running accounts via PLEXes, or even regular subscribers who also pay less than s/he does. For all the reasons I explained in more detail previously, this isn't the case. Did you notice how she did not once try to find an argument against the reasoning? It's because she can't - but it doesn't keep her from insisting she's "right" and "worth more".
That makes her ignorant and dangerous as a person, and a waste of resources - because frankly, there's hundreds of millions of people on this planet who deserve water, food and even oxygen more than s/he does. For the simple reason they're not entirely devoid of human decency and intelligence.

And since you decided to side with her, I had very little choice but to assume you held similar views. I have to admit I didn't pay as much attention to your posts as I did to hers, simply because they didn't strike me as being just as stupid.
Sorry if you feel misinterpreted by that - but supporting people who share a common goal with you but are otherwise useless is usually prone to draw the wrong kind of attention.

Kerrisone
Posted - 2011.06.02 09:27:00 - [1438]
 

Originally by: Elda Amamiya
Originally by: Morar Santee
Originally by: Elda Amamiya
May I ask.. In what criteria is to judge is something worth or worthless ?

See above. It's that simple.


May I ask... For a direct answer ?


I would say it is your buddy Avy's superior condescending attitude that is present in nearly every post. If you read them it is easy to see that mentality, it might also have to do with ignoring arguments presented like has been done over and over throughout this trainwreck of a threadnaught for pages now.

Elda Amamiya
Posted - 2011.06.02 09:32:00 - [1439]
 

Originally by: Morar Santee
Originally by: Elda Amamiya
Originally by: Morar Santee
Originally by: Elda Amamiya
May I ask.. In what criteria is to judge is something worth or worthless ?

See above. It's that simple.


May I ask... For a direct answer ?


Alright. So let's have a look at the facts:

N accounts are being paid for via PLEXes.
CCP receives Nx15$ due to this.
Without people using PLEXes, CCP would receive (N-X)x15$.
(That's because a number would of course go back to paying with a regular subscription.)
Both PLEX sellers and buyers are part of the same equation, which creates revenue for CCP and keeps EVE running. There's no difference.

But for some reason, Avy insists on somehow being "worth more" or "contributing more" than any of the players running accounts via PLEXes, or even regular subscribers who also pay less than s/he does. For all the reasons I explained in more detail previously, this isn't the case. Did you notice how she did not once try to find an argument against the reasoning? It's because she can't - but it doesn't keep her from insisting she's "right" and "worth more".
That makes her ignorant and dangerous as a person, and a waste of resources - because frankly, there's hundreds of millions of people on this planet who deserve water, food and even oxygen more than s/he does. For the simple reason they're not entirely devoid of human decency and intelligence.

And since you decided to side with her, I had very little choice but to assume you held similar views. I have to admit I didn't pay as much attention to your posts as I did to hers, simply because they didn't strike me as being just as stupid.
Sorry if you feel misinterpreted by that - but supporting people who share a common goal with you but are otherwise useless is usually prone to draw the wrong kind of attention.


Fair points.
I agree with you.

And for my posts I did not side with anyone, I have my own reason and point of view which they may or may not be in the same way of someone.

Morar Santee
Posted - 2011.06.02 09:34:00 - [1440]
 

Originally by: Elda Amamiya

Fair points.
I agree with you.

And for my posts I did not side with anyone, I have my own reason and point of view which they may or may not be in the same way of someone.

In that case I want to apologize for jumping to conclusions. I might be a tad irate by now.


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