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Wearfield
The Junkyard Dogs
Posted - 2011.05.28 00:35:00 - [541]
 

Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 5% off the price of Adidas shoes and 5% bonus to all Adidas store credits per level.

Alec Freeman
Minmatar
The Dark Space Initiative
Revival Of The Talocan Empire
Posted - 2011.05.28 00:36:00 - [542]
 

Its times like this where I think that the next good space MMO to come along may acually kill eve. Horrable idea CCP but its not as if you listen to your playerbase anymore.

Sahmul
The Grimreapers.
Posted - 2011.05.28 00:36:00 - [543]
 

Originally by: LordElfa
Not to derail man, but what exactly do you mean by carebear themeparks?


WoW essentially, Rift, LotRO, all of those games where PvP is an afterthought and grinding the next shiny Raid Boss is the only actual content.

Junko Sideswipe
Broski Enterprises
Elite Space Guild
Posted - 2011.05.28 00:38:00 - [544]
 

Originally by: Alec Freeman
Its times like this where I think that the next good space MMO to come along may acually kill eve. Horrable idea CCP but its not as if you listen to your playerbase anymore.


LOL. Name one. Black Pro- OH WAIT, IT'S TERRIBLE.

Shut up and enjoy your cat ears. Cool Cool Cool

Ron Bacardi
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.05.28 00:45:00 - [545]
 

Holy ****, look at the serious business, "oh no microtransactions" whiners in this thread.

It's internet spaceships, not real life spaceships. Chill the **** out.

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2011.05.28 00:48:00 - [546]
 

Originally by: Ron Bacardi
Holy ****, look at the serious business, "oh no microtransactions" whiners in this thread.

It's internet spaceships, not real life spaceships. Chill the **** out.


THIS

it's vanity only, and it's 100% optional. it's not killing the game.

plus unlike TF2 this game has a more serious tone, so we'll never have party hats on spaceships. So in my opinion, as long it doesn't put you at a disadvantage, yo don't have to buy anything.

why do you think people still play TF2?

LordElfa
Gallente
Golden Lyon Warriors
Posted - 2011.05.28 00:50:00 - [547]
 

Originally by: Sahmul
Originally by: LordElfa
Not to derail man, but what exactly do you mean by carebear themeparks?


WoW essentially, Rift, LotRO, all of those games where PvP is an afterthought and grinding the next shiny Raid Boss is the only actual content.


Well, not everyone enjoys non-consensual PVP or gets off on ruining the gaming experience of other players. You call them carebears, I call them well adjusted individuals. For my money, most MMO's use PVP as a reason to not have to develop or deliver any story content which costs more to make.

Thanks to CCP's support of the PVP mob in EVE, while they have the chance for some epic stories to be told in the EVE Universe, they've delivered next to none and by giving so much power to their playerbase, they've essentially trapped themselves into a static corner where they can't make significant changes to their own game without the masses having a Myocardial Infarction, essentially stalling out all possible story progression, leaving only the ability to add crap like this.

You say in EVE, players make the story? Well, here is your story, it's one of static nothingness and negativity caused by populating your game with those who can only reach climax by feasting on the tears of others.

So, I ask you, what do you expect from CCP when every change they attempt to make either large or small brings on these sorts of slathering reactions.

Olivia Berett
Caldari
Brasfleet Networking Co.
Posted - 2011.05.28 00:52:00 - [548]
 

Just left the test server. There are really issues about the light/shadow rendering, but I noticed that not only in CQ, but when in space, stations and other structures also have light/shadow problems which arent currently in tranquility.
Before asking, I was using the max graphic setting and yes, the PC I was using can afford that. Btw, the light/shadow oddness is a little less when in lower graphic settings.

About the controls and animations, placements and so on, it has some issues deppending on camera angles and position regarding the use of the screens and ship controls.

One last thing:
- Plex prices going to the roof, and people leaving EVE because they only afford to play because of plex ? I fail to see what is the point thinking that CCP is a business and more people playing, more usage, more costs with less income really doesnt "make an aim to direct to".

I like the idea of using plex for vanity itens, and I like the idea of plex getting higher prices. Lately there was a boom in economy and too many "beggers" and other "non contributors whatsoever to any aspect of EVE universe". People are easly buying plex, making ships inexpensive and contributing to the ease you can replace a ship, therefore no worries about losses and about dumb PvP, wardecs, and so on.

Some can argue that plex higher prices will inject more ISK, thus, making losses even more meaningless, but plex higher prices also will drop the number of players buying them, and reserve this to players really into EVE. 400M/month is something really effortless to make if you dedicate yourself just a lil bit for that, and doesnt match the "paying by playing" status. Either lower the prices in IRL money or let the market in ISK make its wishes, because dropping the ISK prices to a point anyone can buy it by playing 1h/day will really be unfair to those who pay IRL money for it.

And market-wise, think about this:
- Cheaper Plex, more people using plex instead of paying;
- More people using plex, more demand, less offer, prices go high;
- Tempering the market by CCP makes the price stay low;
- Marketing plex with high demand by low prices doesnt pay;
- People start not buying plex by IRL money because it gets non profitable ISK wise;
- Soon shortage of plex;
- The same way, people relying on plex to play the game "for free" will have to change plans;

This is one scenario, where there are many others:

- Instead of being restricted under market schemes to lower plex prices, people start to trading plex by their own, resulting in more schemes, higher prices and risky offer;
- If plex still the same IRL price but doesnt reflect its value in ISK, people will see that instead of selling plex, they earn much more making Aur, buying vanity itens and selling them, in other words, making plex cost go higher;

One way or another, adding "value beyond money" to plex (expanding its possibilities) MUST result in its value in ISK getting higher, or its value in IRL currency getting higher. For CCP as a business, it is much more intersting to let the ISK value get higher.

4N631
Posted - 2011.05.28 00:53:00 - [549]
 

Edited by: 4N631 on 28/05/2011 00:57:48
Originally by: Alhambra Rainwalker
PLEX are extremely cheap still. How much isk can average person make in month? Many billions. So few hundred million isk for 30 days of gametime is pittance.

Originally by: Alhambra Rainwalker
Sure you can, just run enough missions. 500m can be made in a daily grind no problem.

You are failing at knowing what "average person" is, read few QEN back and then talk.

Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation
RONA Directorate
Posted - 2011.05.28 00:56:00 - [550]
 

So the question is how many of you guys are losing corpmates or alliance mates now that plex prices are going up?


remember some people in eve pay for it using plex. All inflated plex values are going to do is just force people to well quit.

Yes i am fighting to keep plex and aurummmumumm or what ever they call it seperate.

Sister Megarea
Sisters of Agony
Posted - 2011.05.28 01:01:00 - [551]
 

Originally by: Olivia Berett

One last thing:
- Plex prices going to the roof, and people leaving EVE because they only afford to play because of plex ? I fail to see what is the point thinking that CCP is a business and more people playing, more usage, more costs with less income really doesnt "make an aim to direct to".


Except you forgot the fact that you cannot make PLEX in game, or purchase it from NPCs: Any PLEX bought with ISK was originally bought by a human being, meaning CCP doesn't lose out. (It really is an ingenious system)

Tying that PLESK system to the vanity purchases, however, means those who do only play to pay cannot afford it, which means they'll stop buying the PLEXes, because they can't afford them. This then means those people paying RL cash for the PLEXes will stop doing so, as their market for those purchasing them just got a lot smaller - Everyone loses.

Sahmul
The Grimreapers.
Posted - 2011.05.28 01:08:00 - [552]
 

Edited by: Sahmul on 28/05/2011 01:25:37
Originally by: LordElfa
Originally by: Sahmul
Originally by: LordElfa
Not to derail man, but what exactly do you mean by carebear themeparks?


WoW essentially, Rift, LotRO, all of those games where PvP is an afterthought and grinding the next shiny Raid Boss is the only actual content.


Well, not everyone enjoys non-consensual PVP or gets off on ruining the gaming experience of other players. You call them carebears, I call them well adjusted individuals. For my money, most MMO's use PVP as a reason to not have to develop or deliver any story content which costs more to make.

Thanks to CCP's support of the PVP mob in EVE, while they have the chance for some epic stories to be told in the EVE Universe, they've delivered next to none and by giving so much power to their playerbase, they've essentially trapped themselves into a static corner where they can't make significant changes to their own game without the masses having a Myocardial Infarction, essentially stalling out all possible story progression, leaving only the ability to add crap like this.

You say in EVE, players make the story? Well, here is your story, it's one of static nothingness and negativity caused by populating your game with those who can only reach climax by feasting on the tears of others.

So, I ask you, what do you expect from CCP when every change they attempt to make either large or small brings on these sorts of slathering reactions.


I expect nothing from CCP, I told you, I have unsubscribed.

I am amused at your implication that PvP is the province only of those into schadenfreude, but that doesn't describe me in the slightest. I can fight NPCs in a single player game, and recieve a more satisfying story for the most part as well. Why would I pay x dollars a month to play a single player game? For that matter, why would you pay x dollars a month to play a game of "static nothingness and negativity"?

I use the term carebear merely as a description of playstyle incidentally, not as an attack. I have played carebear games in the past and enjoyed them for what they are. Ultimately, however, I found them hollow and unsatisfying as my play experience was totally directed by the devs, and they lacked any real challenge. Defeating an NPC that has no realistic chance of beating anyone who is alive and at the keyboard is not something I feel any sense of accomplishment over.

Oh, and I don't actually think that "non-consensual" PvP exists in EVE :)

Enough derailment however, much as I enjoyed the discussion LordElfa, we are rather off topic :)

Olivia Berett
Caldari
Brasfleet Networking Co.
Posted - 2011.05.28 01:12:00 - [553]
 

It is a train of thought I assumed people would see.

IT DOESNT MATTER for the business of CCP if someone buy plex to sell to others or to use by themselves. Artificially manipulating the prices to convey the wishes of "play to pay" players will just make less people buy plex. The ones for vanity itens will then spend plex on them, the ones against it will just see that selling vanity itens is more profitable. Anyway, tempering the marketing for "play to pay" people will only make less people sell plex, hence, less income IRL for CCP.

If the price goes up, is for a reason. And letting the "ships fall where they may" in the market will only raise a problem for those, as mentioned above, who doesnt really value EVE enought to spend money on it.

I know that any player taking eve seriously wont be that whiner about 20 euros/month.

Gogela
Freeport Exploration
Posted - 2011.05.28 01:13:00 - [554]
 

Edited by: Gogela on 28/05/2011 01:18:40

PLEX prices have been pretty stable at about 400 mil today, actually. I'm concerned about it too, since I use PLEX atm to pay my sub. However, in watching it, and despite the speculation, it's still trading at a level that makes sense still. If it goes over 400 mil I probably will be less inclined to use PLEX.
Originally by: Sister Megarea
Tying that PLESK system to the vanity purchases, however, means those who do only play to pay cannot afford it, which means they'll stop buying the PLEXes, because they can't afford them. This then means those people paying RL cash for the PLEXes will stop doing so, as their market for those purchasing them just got a lot smaller - Everyone loses.

You know, it should be noted the reverse also holds true. The 'player types' being drawn in because they now have avatars probably care a whole hell of a lot more than us about how they look. Those nubs may flood the market with PLEX for ore-um and ISK... ...particularly because they are newer players they will be low on ISK. I think that's a given. So what happens then? PLEX prices could very well crash big time. I'm hoping for 250 mil isk PLEX, personally. You know, we could be entering into a golden age of EvE here... where the PLEX is cheap and so are the yuks when you pop a nub with a hauler full of short-shorts (who wears short shorts?). It is the fool who looks to the unknown with fear, and the rich and victorious who see opportunity in uncertainty. Just my 2 ore-um.

Originally by: Junko Sideswipe
Shut up and enjoy your cat ears. Cool Cool Cool

This. Meow.

Zephyrus II
Posted - 2011.05.28 01:16:00 - [555]
 

You know what? I don't mind the new system. At all.

There is one proviso, however: Don't rub the new "AUR" in our faces. Don't put it on the main wallet tab, don't tell us how much we have (Generally 0 except in special circumstances) on every cursed screen. Make it a seperate tab in the wallet and only bring up the "AUR" where it applies; i.e nowhere near the market screen or contract section.

I don't want to have to look at the new "golden isk" everywhere. That's not to say I won't use the system, mind you, but having microtransactions shoved in our faces even while in our ships is just not on. (Not to say also that I wouldn't be partial to some paint jobs and decals, but again, not on the market screen, not in contracts (for aur anyway.))

tl;dr: I don't mind the new currency, but do try and keep its use in a seperate area to isk; I don't want to see it beside my isk value on the wallet screen.

Ayumikata
Posted - 2011.05.28 01:19:00 - [556]
 

Lets start a PETITION to prevent CCP from implementing Aurum as a currency. Clothing is fun, but it is coming at too great of a price for the community.

Ice Pirateer
Posted - 2011.05.28 01:21:00 - [557]
 

Originally by: Ayumikata
Lets start a PETITION to prevent CCP from implementing Aurum as a currency. Clothing is fun, but it is coming at too great of a price for the community.


Lets not. Rolling Eyes

J Kunjeh
Gallente
Posted - 2011.05.28 01:29:00 - [558]
 

To all the haters, ragequitters, and uber-boobers: it's REAAAALLY easy to make this all go away if you really hate it that much. How you ask? Just don't buy the stuff and it'll shortly crash and burn...because NOBODY likes this change according to many of you, right?

Cole Ontor
Posted - 2011.05.28 01:31:00 - [559]
 

Give me monocles or give me death!
death its is to this game,micro transaction ! ugh

MrShooter
Caldari
Posted - 2011.05.28 01:31:00 - [560]
 

Originally by: MotherMoon

leave our drivers license photos alone please. I mean , whats going to happen with incarna on a whole? Once we can walk around bars and stuff. Are we going to change our equipment if we have to redo our carefully crafted photo every single time we just want to change our shirt?


Please this. I'd like the option of leaving my public portrait completely alone when re customizing my character so I don't have to spend several minutes getting the portrait back into position when I want to try on a new pair of boots.

Surely Scotty the paparazzi manager doesn't care that much about what I am wearing at every moment?

Ceci Mariz
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.05.28 01:31:00 - [561]
 

Didn't read all of the thread, sorry. Why another currency? Can we get an answer from someone in the the economics team Question

Wu Phat
Posted - 2011.05.28 01:31:00 - [562]
 

Originally by: Bienator II
The main question here is:
will i be able to take your monocle if i pod you? :)


This takes piracy to a whole new level. I am hoping to get a yes and corpse collecting becomes a new salvaging window. Also I am guessing pets and stuff will also be bought with this new income.

Will I also be able to deface, vandalize, more or less if allowed in someones captains quarters take a fat dump or **** in there fish tank.

Wu Phat
Posted - 2011.05.28 01:38:00 - [563]
 

Originally by: Leah Solo
Edited by: Leah Solo on 27/05/2011 23:03:29
Edited by: Leah Solo on 27/05/2011 23:02:52
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk

Tying Aurum to plex is a bad idea. PERIOD - plex prices are going though the roof now and will most likely never come down. They are starting to break past 400 million, and YOU WILL / ARE losing people who can only afford to play the game with plex. EITHER put a price cap on plex, or lose more people.



This..O-M-F-G this!! Shocked

A year ago, when i started, bought my first PLEX for under 300 mil! Now it's closing to 450 mil! Sad

As I live in a ****ty little country with it's own currency, 60 day GTC, when converted costs me 50 USD. And being a student, that just ain't affordable. So please don't make plex pilots grind even more for the game we love..FFS!

Quote:
- Mictrotransactions are not the best idea in the world, how do we know you will keep your word and keep them limited to vanity items only. Nathan or Hillmar need to flat out stake their reps on this one and publicly say this.


Also this..slippery slope is slippery!







Looks like these guys need to learn to use Bots

Olivia Berett
Caldari
Brasfleet Networking Co.
Posted - 2011.05.28 01:44:00 - [564]
 

Some people fail to see that CCP is business and the community itself isnt that coherent to "claim" something like that.

First of all, Idk if it is due to my experience elsewhere online, or just that I run a Internet Entertainment business IRL, but these new things smell the same as the things they are doing all around the MMO industry: MMORPG "in the strict sense" only appeals to those in tune with GAMES, where as, and virtual universe will appeal for more than 200% the gamers number in people who just chill out in virtual reality or live in VR because they dont like RL. This is a HUGE sume of money for people that will be consuming far less tech resources, have machines far more powerful, and have far more money. There are people in SL who spend about 1000 USD monthly, and SL is far less cool in graphics than even the present form of CQ.

Do you really think that if CCP hit the pot of VR fanatics, there will be "community effort" to avoid vanity itens and so on ? People around spend thousand of dollars to buy farmville cash, SL dolars, Habbo Dolars. As the things are going in EVE, I really can see some people moving to eve and spending at least 500 USD a month to run a pub in some station and paying ISK for other people to make the space part for them. That thing about running a business inside a station, I clearly see people spending that 500 USD or more monthly even if they arent seeing profit.

That is the difference in business, if you lose 1000 players bringing market to those selling plex, for 200 players spending 10 times what that 2000 used to generate, it wont matter. And I totally see it happening for the best.

Now that SL hit the bubble cask, and cant do nothing better, closed in an obsolete graphic engine, and an obsolete concept that people like to build things from the ground up, another VR where things are handled to you ready, and you can even play some SciFi if you want without having to build it, it is wonderful.

If CCP really want money and players, this is the way to go. Those malcontent with it will be replaced for people willingly paying much more money for far less things.

Smart people should wait and enjoy the beauty of CCP full of "cat eared spenders" giving money to make their game better.

LordElfa
Gallente
Golden Lyon Warriors
Posted - 2011.05.28 01:49:00 - [565]
 

Originally by: Sahmul


Enough derailment however, much as I enjoyed the discussion LordElfa, we are rather off topic :)


I don't intend to carry this on farther than this post but I wanted to clarify 2 things very quickly.

First, not all PVP'ers are of the schadenfreude variety in my mind, I like to PVP myself from time to time. And I understand what you mean about no non-consensual PVP existing in eVE as you're essentially consenting to PVP by signing up for the game, fair enough.

However, I'm referring to PVP where one party wants it and the other doesn't. Nearly all MMO's have PVP but most let both players decide if its something they want to do while EVE lets those with schadenfreude tendencies simply **** on other players who aren't interested, thereby drawing those who enjoy being nasty to others into the game.

The only challenge you can find in PVP is from those who want it. I would argue that there is less challenge to be found by attacking some guy in a hauler who is unarmed than attacking an NPC bot. Therefor those who do attack non PVP interested players aren't looking for a greater challenge than that presented by NPC's, but to grief others because they get off on it.

Also I would argue that most people who play MMO's do so in order to share a story with others in the spirit of cooperation. This also happens in EVE, though all too often these groups end up leaving EVE due to realizing that you are forced to PVP in order to progress. Remember, CCP never said anyone was required to PVP in this game, they simply made a game where non-consensual PVP was possible and those who new what that entailed came here.

I wouldn't change most of it though, I enjoy the risk it adds, I just wish CCP would add more to the story of EVE which has the ability for richness beyond what most MMO universes could hope to achieve.

It's been enjoying speaking with you Sahmul, good luck in all your future endeavors.

Cassidy Dee
Posted - 2011.05.28 01:52:00 - [566]
 

Fantastic idea CCP. Essentially an optional subscription increase for those who have a little extra (money or isk).

The only thing I'm wondering - Are skiis on the agenda so that we can handle this 'slippery slope' the detractors keep talking about?

Siramar Thi
Posted - 2011.05.28 01:54:00 - [567]
 

WHY CAN'T I JUST USE ISK???

Sahmul
The Grimreapers.
Posted - 2011.05.28 01:58:00 - [568]
 

Originally by: LordElfa

It's been enjoying speaking with you Sahmul, good luck in all your future endeavors.


To you as well, peace.

Jeff Severasse
Posted - 2011.05.28 01:58:00 - [569]
 

I have only read about the first 4 pages so if this was asked and answered I do apologize but why not just make it all available with isk? I know that CCP wants to increase PLEX sales and thus increase their bottom line (ok that IS the reason but whatever) but couldnít this be an actual isk sink that I have heard many players say this game needs? I mean look at (please donít crucify me for this) WoW and how much people spend on stupid stuff like pets!

Ardamalis
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2011.05.28 02:20:00 - [570]
 

I must say CCP I am impressed. I had my doubts about micro-transactions in the past but the way this is implemented is genius. I for one like the fact that I never have to spend a real life cent for vanity items (but someone else does Cool).

Originally by: Siramar Thi
WHY CAN'T I JUST USE ISK???


You can. Just buy it from some other player who is selling on the market.


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