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blankseplocked Suicide ganking of freighters
 
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Chandler Urandom
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2011.05.21 22:25:00 - [1]
 

I've recently started thinking about buying myself a shiny freighter, but I hear oh so much about suicide ganks and such. Naturally the risk of someone killing you is always present, but at which point is the value of a potential drop enough to make people determined to suicide you? 1b? 5b? If it's going to have a high probability of being deathened just by leaving the station, I'm not sure I'll bother.

Does the ISK per m3 matter? What I'm primarily thinking of producing, is capital modules and battleships. So I will be transporting those as well as the minerals required, if that information is relevant.

What is the insurance rate/refund of a freighter btw? :P

Theon Viliana
Posted - 2011.05.22 00:58:00 - [2]
 

it becomes cost efficent to gank freighters when its moving more than 1.5b of goods at the very least. if your moving low volume high profit goods use an orca becuase the bay cant be scanned.

Tau Cabalander
Posted - 2011.05.22 19:56:00 - [3]
 

Assuming it takes about 16 battleships to destroy a freighter in 0.5 sec, and a 50 million drop per pilot, it takes about 2.5 billion of cargo with a 50% drop.

Red Frog Freight has a collateral maximum of 1 billion.

I've never had problems hauling 1b-2b, but then I also don't AFK haul with valuable cargo. I've hauled as much as 20b but I used scouts.

I don't insure anything other than PvP ships.

Frank Truck
Posted - 2011.05.23 18:48:00 - [4]
 

I think frieghter kills may be more urban legend than actual attacks. In the year I have been flying mine I have never been even targeted.

Besides eveything mentioned above, and assuming the cargo really had the m3 volume to justify a freighter, even if you make the kill you still have 900 m3 in cargo in floating in space. Since freigters can't open cans, that is trick 2, how to get 900 m3 home.


Gabriel Rosencrantz
Gods of Freight
Posted - 2011.05.23 18:59:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Frank Truck
I think frieghter kills may be more urban legend than actual attacks. In the year I have been flying mine I have never been even targeted.

Besides eveything mentioned above, and assuming the cargo really had the m3 volume to justify a freighter, even if you make the kill you still have 900 m3 in cargo in floating in space. Since freigters can't open cans, that is trick 2, how to get 900 m3 home.

They happen, though less frequently these days since insurance payouts changed and raised the "make it worth ganking" limit a little bit. Freighters can scoop from freighter wrecks; its the one exception to the general rules for freighters. The bottom line is that its a HP vs. ISK calculation.

ps: PP, for someone in a 'retirement home' you sure do post a lot! Razz

Tau Cabalander
Posted - 2011.05.24 23:09:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Gabriel Rosencrantz
ps: PP, for someone in a 'retirement home' you sure do post a lot! Razz

I'm not Proton Power (PP).

Proton Power doesn't post nearly as much as I do.

I think trimming down to only 15? accounts when his son was born may have been Proton's idea of retirement. Wink

Shasz
Angels of Anarchy
Posted - 2011.05.25 17:03:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Frank Truck
I think frieghter kills may be more urban legend than actual attacks. In the year I have been flying mine I have never been even targeted.

Besides eveything mentioned above, and assuming the cargo really had the m3 volume to justify a freighter, even if you make the kill you still have 900 m3 in cargo in floating in space. Since freigters can't open cans, that is trick 2, how to get 900 m3 home.



1) The legends are true.
2) Passive targeting modules don't let the target know he was targeted.
3) Freighters can loot from freighter wrecks.
4) 900 m3 is a little low for a freighter (900,000 maybe?)

And for the autopilot guy - it doesn't matter with a freighter if you autopilot or not. If they want your cargo, they'll get you. Freighters align way too slowly.


Aiwha
Caldari
101st Space Marine Force
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2011.05.25 17:32:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Frank Truck
I think frieghter kills may be more urban legend than actual attacks. In the year I have been flying mine I have never been even targeted.

Besides eveything mentioned above, and assuming the cargo really had the m3 volume to justify a freighter, even if you make the kill you still have 900 m3 in cargo in floating in space. Since freigters can't open cans, that is trick 2, how to get 900 m3 home.




Nope, I know a group of guys that target freighters exclusively. Battleships, loot scoop Indies, and their own freighter.

FeralShadow
NME1
Posted - 2011.05.25 17:57:00 - [9]
 

Then the solution is easy. Suicide gank their freighter after they suicide gank yours, then they suicide gank yours when you go to scoop the loot, and it keeps going Laughing

Shaemell Buttleson
Posted - 2011.05.25 18:11:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Tau Cabalander
Assuming it takes about 16 battleships to destroy a freighter in 0.5 sec, and a 50 million drop per pilot, it takes about 2.5 billion of cargo with a 50% drop.

Red Frog Freight has a collateral maximum of 1 billion.

I've never had problems hauling 1b-2b, but then I also don't AFK haul with valuable cargo. I've hauled as much as 20b but I used scouts.

I don't insure anything other than PvP ships.



I asked for proof about how many BS it took to suicide a freighter some time back in another thread. I was shown several killmails where it only took 10 BS's fitted mainly with T1/meta mods.

So it costs about 400 mil to suicide them or probably even less with insurance payouts.


Gabriel Rosencrantz
Gods of Freight
Posted - 2011.05.25 18:22:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Gabriel Rosencrantz on 25/05/2011 18:40:04
Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson
Originally by: Tau Cabalander
Assuming it takes about 16 battleships to destroy a freighter in 0.5 sec, and a 50 million drop per pilot, it takes about 2.5 billion of cargo with a 50% drop.

Red Frog Freight has a collateral maximum of 1 billion.

I've never had problems hauling 1b-2b, but then I also don't AFK haul with valuable cargo. I've hauled as much as 20b but I used scouts.

I don't insure anything other than PvP ships.



I asked for proof about how many BS it took to suicide a freighter some time back in another thread. I was shown several killmails where it only took 10 BS's fitted mainly with T1/meta mods.

So it costs about 400 mil to suicide them or probably even less with insurance payouts.



Everything depends on the HP of the freighter and the alpha of the gankers, which are both dependent on the skills, implants, and ships of the pilots. I know of several failed ganks where the pilot escaped from groups of 12 to 15 gankers. I've also seen ganks that took 24+ pilots. I've never seen one that took as few as 10, but then most of the pilots I know of were at least semi-well skilled. I'd be curious to see those killmails.

edit: found your previous comment/thread and checked out the KM's. Those have 8 to 9 pilots on each one. They look like mainly (but not exclusively) maxed out tempests. Looking at their KM's in general, it looks like they are looking for targets with 4 bill plus in the hold. Interesting stuff. thanks

Abdiel Kavash
Caldari
Paladin Order
Fidelas Constans
Posted - 2011.05.25 20:02:00 - [12]
 


Gabriel Rosencrantz
Gods of Freight
Posted - 2011.05.25 22:58:00 - [13]
 

I rechecked the numbers with a little help. Using the information from the previously mentioned KMs (1, 2, 3) to get rough fits and costs and using the assumption that 50million profit is the minimum to make it worth it to gank, the break even point, even for an 8 man tempest gank with T2 fits is approx 1.176 billion. This accounts for the 50% drop rate as well.

TheGreenFoX
Posted - 2011.05.29 11:17:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Abdiel Kavash
Surely, just a legend.

And how many of them are not war dec targets ?Rolling Eyes

Aviditas
Northstar Cabal
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2011.05.29 17:39:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Abdiel Kavash
Surely, just a legend.


Do you REALLY think people suicide gank in billion isk BS hulls?
Do you really think a fleet like that could really gank a freighter before dying? Rolling Eyes


 

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