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blankseplocked WE CANT SEE CROSS NPC STANDINGS!!!
 
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Cosmoes
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.05.20 14:51:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: Alaura Aquila
I want to know why CCP is so silent on this, they must not give a **** and want to sweep this under the rug. This is so ****ing dumb on so many levels.


Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Archestratidas
>>The show info page won’t show another players standing to EVERYTHING IN THE UNIVERSE. From now on, it will only display standings relevant to you. This basically limits your ability to be a creepy stalker that keeps an eye on other people’s standings to random agents. It also simplifies the UI.

So is this going to fix the problem of 'Show Info' pages that default to the standings tab locking up the client for 5-15 seconds while it loads all that useless crap?


Yeah, there's the performance increase too.


from page 3 of the dev blog.

thats the only explanation/response I've seen

Serpents smile
Posted - 2011.05.20 15:02:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: Cosmoes
Originally by: Alaura Aquila
I want to know why CCP is so silent on this, they must not give a **** and want to sweep this under the rug. This is so ****ing dumb on so many levels.


Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Archestratidas
>>The show info page won’t show another players standing to EVERYTHING IN THE UNIVERSE. From now on, it will only display standings relevant to you. This basically limits your ability to be a creepy stalker that keeps an eye on other people’s standings to random agents. It also simplifies the UI.

So is this going to fix the problem of 'Show Info' pages that default to the standings tab locking up the client for 5-15 seconds while it loads all that useless crap?


Yeah, there's the performance increase too.


from page 3 of the dev blog.

thats the only explanation/response I've seen


Yeah its a
dumbification = "simplifying" the UI (taking stuff away with no replacement is "good")
numbification = we're forced to be more carebear (ohh, its such a dark place this EVE, yes? Only every patch a bit less)
and an unforeseen performance boost (gosh really?)



Whispering Monk
Posted - 2011.05.20 16:03:00 - [63]
 

Quote:
Yeah, I thought this was stupid too, what can you do.


Make post on a forum and hope they see sense?


For new players to the game, they have unnecessary gutted a core part of the EVE lore...


...Seeing what FACTIONS dislike what FACTIONS and how much so.

I understand the player change to stop spying/stalking(although some players worked hard on their reps and WANT to show them off... Can't now.), but the NPC change is pointless and removes a useful tool for RP and working out what factions to work for. Neutral

Alaura Aquila
Minmatar
Matari Legion Holding
Matari Legion
Posted - 2011.05.20 16:05:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: Whispering Monk
Quote:
Yeah, I thought this was stupid too, what can you do.


Make post on a forum and hope they see sense?


For new players to the game, they have unnecessary gutted a core part of the EVE lore...


...Seeing what FACTIONS dislike what FACTIONS and how much so.

I understand the player change to stop spying/stalking(although some players worked hard on their reps and WANT to show them off... Can't now.), but the NPC change is pointless and removes a useful tool for RP and working out what factions to work for. Neutral


I agree, CCP has ****ed up yet again.

Whispering Monk
Posted - 2011.05.20 16:10:00 - [65]
 

They might as well just make 4 NPC corps. Why bother with all the sub corps. The variety don't matter any more.


Hey... what's Amarr's view on Thukker Tribe?

Fkd if I know... Don't matter any more. Games not about immersing yourself in a great universe with it's own lore now.

Dumb.

Valeo Galaem
New Eden Advanced Reconnaissance Unit
Sentient World Observation and Response Directive
Posted - 2011.05.20 16:22:00 - [66]
 

Edited by: Valeo Galaem on 20/05/2011 16:23:15

What about the trickle down effect of standings?!?

People who run lots of Caldari based missions will find they their standings with Gallente and Amarr drop while Minmatar increases slightly. They may also find that their highest standing is with Mordu's Legion despite never even talking to one of their agents. How did that happen? I have no idea (it's barely covered in the backstory), but I would have even less of a clue without cross NPC standing lists.

This effects everyday mission runners who give a crap about their standing with other factions and corps - which I hope is a significant amount of the playerbase. None the least concern is the effect on RP facets of the game.

CCP might as well remove cross faction standings all together at this point! Next year each NPC faction/corp will live in its own bubble. Picking which agent, corp, or faction to align yourself with won't mean a thing and half of the backstory will be thrown out the window. After all, the only reason to bother with any of it is to grind missions, right?

Ripley Nostromo
Posted - 2011.05.20 16:42:00 - [67]
 

For everyone unhappy with this:

Can I have yer stuff???

Cave Lord
Posted - 2011.05.20 16:44:00 - [68]
 

Where is the CSM in all of this? As "representatives" of the EVE community, surely we should contact the CSM?

Akira Samposeppa
Gallente
Arthashastra
Posted - 2011.05.20 18:12:00 - [69]
 

Originally by: Cave Lord
Where is the CSM in all of this? As "representatives" of the EVE community, surely we should contact the CSM?


The csm only care about their 0.0 no life outside of eve gay nap fest...
and their free game time supplied by many other grunt slaves in their alliances

Brooks Puuntai
Minmatar
Nomadic Asylum
Posted - 2011.05.20 18:36:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: Cave Lord
Where is the CSM in all of this? As "representatives" of the EVE community, surely we should contact the CSM?


I doubt the CSM even knew about it let alone could actually do anything about it. Even with having a 0.0 based CSM, CCP is still rolling out nerfs across the board whether the CSM like it or not. Which shows that the CSM don't really have any power when it comes to the way CCP makes changes. This should be no surprise to anyone. Also when it comes to current issues with the game that the CSM COULD go for, I doubt something as insignificant to the majority as hidden standings is high on the list.

Ghoest
Posted - 2011.05.20 19:10:00 - [71]
 

CSMs represent 0.0 voting blocks.

Im not going complain about the program here. Just leave it at the CSMs for a variety of reasons do no represent the fairly large number of players effected by this.

Rixiu
The Inuits
Posted - 2011.05.20 19:21:00 - [72]
 

This is so plain and boring by ccp. I remember when CCP was trying to make eve an epic and immersive world the seemed "real" but that time is long gone. Nowdays design decisions are based on "reducing DB-queries" rather than anything else. Eve really is becoming "plastic" and soulless.

dosperado
Denial of Service
Posted - 2011.05.20 19:33:00 - [73]
 

Let us at least toggle the visibility of our standings (faction/corp) like the cert system. PLEASE

Ky Vatta
Majority 12
Posted - 2011.05.20 19:48:00 - [74]
 

Is this just further proof that CCP devs don`t actually play the game??

Also, it points towards the fact that proper research was not done again



Alaura Aquila
Minmatar
Matari Legion Holding
Matari Legion
Posted - 2011.05.20 20:05:00 - [75]
 


Cave Lord
Posted - 2011.05.21 00:37:00 - [76]
 

Edited by: Cave Lord on 21/05/2011 00:38:17
I apologize, I didn't mean to flesh out flaws in CSM.

(*edit* formatting fail)
So as I understand it, CCP in one change, does the following:
- People with negative faction standings to "covertly" destroy corp standings
- POS setup will be negatively effected.
- Ostrasize (sp?) the role playing community as now no one knows who has what standings with who.
- Allows 3rd party programs to be the PRIMARY means of getting information from a character on their faction standings. (effectively, telling your customers to go elsewhere for needed information)

Someone mentioned earlier (I can't see posts while writing this) that ALL of this could be solved by making faction information OPTIONAL. Kind of like certificate information, with the default setting as "non-public".

I believe this is by far, the best solution. If we can agree on this or some other compromise between CCP's goals and old functionality, we can rally behind it unify as one voice.

Thoughts?

Akira Samposeppa
Gallente
Arthashastra
Posted - 2011.05.21 07:46:00 - [77]
 

Imho they dont need to put back "show standings" option in info if they dont want to...

...but they MUST provide an alternative way to find out that information...

I honestly dont care where, few more clicks wont kill me, but it must be somewhere.
Put it on eve gate, or as a optional something (like some already stated in this thread) or something else...

But this information MUST be available in the game somehow at least for npc corps and (if nothing else) for players which have excellent standings towards you maybe...

Among other problems this change has caused, it has nerfed role play, proving once again that ccp wants to remove rp from eve and turn eve into counterstrike in space ... and i hate counterstrike (and any other fps/3rd shooter/shooter in general for that matter) so they can expect people like me to leave the game soon if they continue in this way.

But as i see that the devs havent even looked at this thread i fear that this problem will go into oblivion like ton of everything else.

Whispering Monk
Posted - 2011.05.21 11:24:00 - [78]
 

Just the simple fact that new players can't click on a factions info...

...say Amarr, and see what their ingame relation is with the other factions is.

New players can't even goto a factions info tab to find out WHAT other factions there are.

A new player now, could PVE for months before he even learned there was a faction called THUKKER or AMAATAR, let alone choose to run missions for them for RP reasons.

Hell... It don't even really matter on an immersion/rp level now, as no one could see what corp you worked for anyway.

They've done away mission types. They might as well get rid corps next. So all you are left with is...

I mission for Caldari Distribution. The individual corps serve no purpose any more.

Barbelo Valentinian
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.05.21 13:04:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: Whispering Monk
Just the simple fact that new players can't click on a factions info...

...say Amarr, and see what their ingame relation is with the other factions is.

New players can't even goto a factions info tab to find out WHAT other factions there are.

A new player now, could PVE for months before he even learned there was a faction called THUKKER or AMAATAR, let alone choose to run missions for them for RP reasons.

Hell... It don't even really matter on an immersion/rp level now, as no one could see what corp you worked for anyway.

They've done away mission types. They might as well get rid corps next. So all you are left with is...

I mission for Caldari Distribution. The individual corps serve no purpose any more.


I remember when I first started the game doing precisely what you are talking about - I would follow a "chain" through the standings, finding out about different factions and their relations to each other.

For me, this gave the game a tremendous background sense of depth - like this was a universe with something going on in it, some life.

It's sad to think of a new player today not being able to stumble on that richness of relationships.

It's sad to think that EVE may eventually turn into a pew-pew game with a chat lobby.

CCP, what's happening to our virtual world?

Tobiaz
Spacerats
Posted - 2011.05.21 13:37:00 - [80]
 

  • Return list with inter-NPC standing (shouldn't have to be a big load on the server, hint: these values have not changed much since launch)
  • Make showing Faction&Corp standing optional like certificates (crucial for corps with high-sec pos or FW, shame on CCP for not caring)

/signed

I have the feeling a couple of devs have ugh-chars that got tracked by their agent-standing so they smacked it bit the nerfbat.

Nyveg
Hyperborea Re
Posted - 2011.05.21 14:00:00 - [81]
 

I welcome the change, was a surreal feature.

Ghoest
Posted - 2011.05.21 15:06:00 - [82]
 

Originally by: Tobiaz
  • Return list with inter-NPC standing (shouldn't have to be a big load on the server, hint: these values have not changed much since launch)
  • Make showing Faction&Corp standing optional like certificates (crucial for corps with high-sec pos or FW, shame on CCP for not caring)

/signed

I have the feeling a couple of devs have ugh-chars that got tracked by their agent-standing so they smacked it bit the nerfbat.


Those are the changes we need.

I have a feeling you give the devs too much credit. I suspect it was someone who had never used the faction standing sheet thought it was an easy way to get credit for reducing lag.

Zaotome
Posted - 2011.05.21 15:28:00 - [83]
 

Originally by: Tobiaz
  • Return list with inter-NPC standing (shouldn't have to be a big load on the server, hint: these values have not changed much since launch)
  • Make showing Faction&Corp standing optional like certificates (crucial for corps with high-sec pos or FW, shame on CCP for not caring)



/signed

Linda Shadowborn
Gallente
Dark Steel Industries
Posted - 2011.05.21 15:47:00 - [84]
 

Originally by: Tobiaz
  • Return list with inter-NPC standing (shouldn't have to be a big load on the server, hint: these values have not changed much since launch)
  • Make showing Faction&Corp standing optional like certificates (crucial for corps with high-sec pos or FW, shame on CCP for not caring)

/signed

I have the feeling a couple of devs have ugh-chars that got tracked by their agent-standing so they smacked it bit the nerfbat.


pff im a carebear and i want them back. then again i have multiple agents across all four empires anyway :)

Blnukem 192
Amarr
The Imperial Fedaykin
Posted - 2011.05.21 15:50:00 - [85]
 

This brilliant change has made recruiting in a faction war corp a complete nightmare.

Good job CCP. You effectively killed FW for good. Neutral

Natasha Yi
Posted - 2011.05.21 20:56:00 - [86]
 

Which clueless DEV decided to remove the standings tab? The removal of agent standings is ok, but NOT faction or corp standings!

Fire that DEV immediately! Right NOW!

Berneh
LEGI0N
Everto Rex Regis
Posted - 2011.05.21 21:25:00 - [87]
 

Originally by: Alaura Aquila
I want to know why CCP is so silent on this, they must not give a **** and want to sweep this under the rug. This is so ****ing dumb on so many levels.


you should know by now that ccp say nothing for quite a long time when they have ****ed up

Jaina Kort
Posted - 2011.05.27 05:59:00 - [88]
 

I just found this topic as I was trying to find agents to run with. I don&t really care about the personal agent standings and the like, but, they should have the faction standings there.

Had a friend saying that he was -4.16 with Gallente and was wondering how to get them up. I suggested SoE as I "thought" they were good with Gallente, and was not too sure if they were actually 0 with Caldari or a slight negative. Checked it out on the net and a few sites report them as 0 and some as a tad negative. oh well.....

This information is really useful. I wish that they would at have alliance and faction standings between each.

Oh well, there goes being helpful to people.....

CCP Spitfire


C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2011.05.27 06:03:00 - [89]
 

Hello everyone,

Sorry for the delayed response. Unfortunately I cannot provide any specifics at this point, but let's just say that the team working on these changes is aware of the issues. I hope to have some more information for you next week (fingers crossed).


Jaina Kort
Posted - 2011.05.27 06:14:00 - [90]
 

Thanks for the update.. looking forward to hearing about it.


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