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blankseplocked And so Eve follows WOW to the grave...
 
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Traejun DiSanctis
Caldari
Posted - 2011.05.17 17:53:00 - [61]
 

Anyone that can honestly compare EvE to WoW either:

1. Has never played WoW
2. Is just a whiny, little baby that cries at the first sign of change.
3. Both.

It's apples and oranges, girls. You could remove every grind from EvE, you could make skills require half the time to train, you could cater to carebears and new players in every conceivable way...

...and this still wouldn't be anything like WoW.

Indeterminacy
THORN Syndicate
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2011.05.17 18:59:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: CCP Guard
I'll dare to remind that EVE didn't even have jump bridges in the beginning Rolling Eyes



This is not a very good argument in favor of nerfing jumpbridges. By the way, how many more subscribers do you have now compared to when jump bridges didn't exist? How many more people reside in 0.0 now compared to when bridges didn't exist.

Just sayin'

CCP should stop making the game less fun (harder for some to make ISK in 0.0, harder and more time consuming to get from point A to point B) and ****ing nerf supers already so the rest of us can PVP again.

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Posted - 2011.05.17 19:14:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: Indeterminacy
Originally by: CCP Guard
I'll dare to remind that EVE didn't even have jump bridges in the beginning Rolling Eyes



This is not a very good argument in favor of nerfing jumpbridges. By the way, how many more subscribers do you have now compared to when jump bridges didn't exist? How many more people reside in 0.0 now compared to when bridges didn't exist.

Just sayin'


That is not a very good argument in favour of not nerfing jumpbridges. By the way, how many more subscribers do CCP have now compared to when there was no stacking nerf? (or: boot.ini, or: nos-fix, or: overpowered damps, or: pre-wcs fix, etc) How many people play EVE now without even pvping.

Just sayin'

I'm too lazy to write it a more striking reply, but simply put:
a) with your reasoning every change that ever happened since jumpbridges were introduced, could be argued to be a 'good' change since it increased the playerbase
b) with your argument that numbers alone shows a state is good/better, no matter what they actually do, then Empire must be bloody ****ing awsome with it's 80% of the playerbase today, and probably null- and lowsec is kickass as well with the increase over the years

The above totally disregard simple things like how even industrialists in high- and lowsec Empire used to have PvP wings, friends, allies or mercenaries. As a pirate I knew my targets, even if industrial focused, would fight back. Now? They just run/flee. The same went for null. Our pet alliances would bring 50 pitchfork frigs/cruisers against those ten roaming PvPers. It'd be a good fight that we usually lost, but both sides would be happy. Both sides got to fight, we got to keep our space, and they generally got to win. Not to mention all the PvP opportunities the shorter POS timers, the lack of jumpbridges/JF's/Capitals etc that the hauling would create. Defence ops of haulers/Freighters, was a great instigator of semi-small scale fights.

That does not happen today, it's all about moongoo or to avoid fights (especially in highsec). Stacking enough people in your system so hostiles cannot even load.

Judging by your love of these changes, I'm quite sure you're one of those who actually believes that it's a good thing for EVE that every player get superrich, don't really lose ships, or fight. Then I wonder if you had ever thought who the producers are going to produce things for? Unless they purely get ammo. And I wonder what your isk will be worth since everyone has craploads of it?

But hey what do I know, it's great for CCP they're making loads of money, clearly there's no room for improvements anymore. Razz

Indeterminacy
THORN Syndicate
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2011.05.17 19:45:00 - [64]
 

Edited by: Indeterminacy on 17/05/2011 19:47:00
My logic is [at the least] equally sound as CCPs so I don't really see a problem here.

Just what in the hell does your piracy have to do with jump bridges? How will nerfing anomalies and jbs make the industrialists you attack in high/low sec suddenly decide to fight back? The mind boggles...

I'd like to know why CCP are walking back a series of 0.0 changes except the [now increasingly] overpowered supers?

And you can save your personal attacks and judgement of my play style and way of thinking for your next appearance on the Maury Povich show. I'm not the one whining for CCP to change the game so I can feel good about myself.

Maverick2011
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2011.05.17 19:56:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: Jitatolemy Aurilen
Yes i played WOW and loved it for a time. However they began to cater to new players, for the obvious income. While I understand the need for profit and a corporation to grow, Its beginning to smell alot like Blizzard around here.

First, Learning skills, I was happy to see them go, good ridance, but it was a precurser to ...

Agent restructuring and complex changes in 0.0

I dont live in 0.0 so i didnt think much of it at the time, but now i see the isk making plexes removed from null AND the agent restructuring in HS and it all makes sense.

Its too bad.

I havent been playing Eve since the beginning but ive been around and I see the signs.

Cater to the carebear and get new players and new money coming in.

It can be done wihout such drastic changes, but its gone the way of the Inc.

I love Eve for its intensly skill oriented play(not SP) so much but real skill.

I hope this game goes on in its original fashion.





Counter Strike----> that way and please take some pseudo pvpers (hi-sec campers)with you as well when you go.

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Posted - 2011.05.17 20:19:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: Indeterminacy
Edited by: Indeterminacy on 17/05/2011 19:47:00
My logic is [at the least] equally sound as CCPs so I don't really see a problem here.

Just what in the hell does your piracy have to do with jump bridges? How will nerfing anomalies and jbs make the industrialists you attack in high/low sec suddenly decide to fight back? The mind boggles...

I'd like to know why CCP are walking back a series of 0.0 changes except the [now increasingly] overpowered supers?

And you can save your personal attacks and judgement of my play style and way of thinking for your next appearance on the Maury Povich show. I'm not the one whining for CCP to change the game so I can feel good about myself.


5/10

Well played mr troll Razz

Argosus
Waverunners
Posted - 2011.05.17 20:22:00 - [67]
 

Edited by: Argosus on 17/05/2011 20:22:29
Originally by: salty Milk
Originally by: Argosus
Originally by: Shira Elan
Originally by: Alara IonStorm

Deleted boot.ini



I remember that...that patch must have been designed by the same team that did the new forums.


yeah cost me 3 weeks worth of work that i'd not backed up. And my job! But thanks for your hard work making this game "better" ccp, as long as i can play internet spaceships who needs a paying job? lol


i think you can work out who is at fault for you losing your job


indeed. Its still a pretty f@#king ret@rded fail from ccp tho. Boot.ini, Its not like its a little unimportant thing lol. Never mind. have better job and dont do work on a games pc anymore :P

EnslaverOfMinmatar
Amarr
Posted - 2011.05.17 23:36:00 - [68]
 

Originally by: CCP Guard
Note that I still fully expect you guys to kick our butts about it from time to time. Sometimes we even deserve it a little bit.




Since you're too far away from here, I authorize the nearest CCP employee to you to do what you just said. Don't forget to make a video.

Heedless
Posted - 2011.05.18 00:07:00 - [69]
 

This is the worst whine post I've ever read.

Your examples don't make any sense relative to your conclusions, and your comparison to WoW is quite strange as a result.

Yeah, complex changes really was a ball buster scheme to grab new subscribers and cater to carebears...

FFS

Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.05.18 00:39:00 - [70]
 

Strange isn't it.

WoW made everyone in the MMO industry stand-up and take notice when they expanded their playerbase by dumbing down the game more (possible?).

What was obvious however and amazing that CCP missed it, was the mass exodus which was also taking place.

Sure WoW picked up record customers. They also killed their product for the future.

CCP saw the record numbers and ignored the fail. Then just drove straight on down the same road.

Orania Solette
Posted - 2011.05.18 02:46:00 - [71]
 

Edited by: Orania Solette on 18/05/2011 02:53:58
I really don't understand 80percent of people who post on these forums. WoW was a grind at first a grind that few people in the "EMPLOYED" world had little time to invest in. New players don't wanna join a game and suddenly find themselfs backed against the wall with little to do for months(hince this games slow number growth). I swear people on here think eve is their private little clubhouse, CCP I can't imagine would just blindly nerf, remove, or buff something that didn't make since. As damn near eveyone lives in High sec why wouldn't you cater to that majority more?

And removing learning skills is considered dumb down?? I think the degree of the skill queue as it is reflects the very lack of content available, space its virtually limitless with possibilites for developers to create new material. And although not sure if the way of the game is because of CCPs desire to keep things the way they want or because they dont no what direction to take the game. Eve to me is almost an enigma its the only real Sci-fi MMO out there with limitless potential to be great yet remains as a minor player in the MMO market cause of the few changes its willing to make or create. I don't know any corporation in this dirt ball we live on who wouldn't take advantage of increasing their profit, so if CCP realises they could generate more numbers by lowering the learning curve well my hats off to them for taking their own road.



Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris
Etherium Cartel
Posted - 2011.05.18 03:09:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: Orania Solette
Edited by: Orania Solette on 18/05/2011 02:53:58
I really don't understand 80percent of people who post on these forums. WoW was a grind at first a grind that few people in the "EMPLOYED" world had little time to invest in. New players don't wanna join a game and suddenly find themselfs backed against the wall with little to do for months(hince this games slow number growth). I swear people on here think eve is their private little clubhouse, CCP I can't imagine would just blindly nerf, remove, or buff something that didn't make since. As damn near eveyone lives in High sec why wouldn't you cater to that majority more?

And removing learning skills is considered dumb down?? I think the degree of the skill queue as it is reflects the very lack of content available, space its virtually limitless with possibilites for developers to create new material. And although not sure if the way of the game is because of CCPs desire to keep things the way they want or because they dont no what direction to take the game. Eve to me is almost an enigma its the only real Sci-fi MMO out there with limitless potential to be great yet remains as a minor player in the MMO market cause of the few changes its willing to make or create. I don't know any corporation in this dirt ball we live on who wouldn't take advantage of increasing their profit, so if CCP realises they could generate more numbers by lowering the learning curve well my hats off to them for taking their own road.


Thank you for your text, unfortunately the OP isn't interested in conversation, but he does want to whine on your face.

best
AG

Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2011.05.18 03:13:00 - [73]
 

CCP, I spent 40 minutes trying to probe down a mission runner by probing for his drones (yes, I do suck at Eve Razz)... turned out the drone was sitting at the gate my corp was camping. Why not make it so probes just give instant warp-to points on whatever they see? Very Happy

Spineker
Caldari
Posted - 2011.05.18 03:19:00 - [74]
 

Edited by: Spineker on 18/05/2011 03:19:14
Quote:
Originally by: Serpents smile

Ehh, first they dumbed down probing. Tough I don't think many people regretted that!

Then they killed of all racial differences, which I still think sux.

Then the learning skills, pointless time wasters, indeed goodbye not gone miss ya.

Now they kill of agent quality and division, because they were
Quote:
adding complexity to an already complex game.
Lol what a load of crap of bs! Next they'll probably remove falloff and tracking speed, because THAT IS WAY TOO COMPLICATED. What the fekk is CCP thinking? I'm a 6 year old ADHD kid not a science student!

You know what they want, money, and fast. Soon (no ) wow in space will become rality.
Mhuwhahahaha!



Right on they made exploration stupid no skill required unlike the original version. OMG I have to think! How horrible I have to watch a few videos of people who did think and learn something! I made a couple few billions off of the original exploration which took time and skill and energy. Then they made it easy mode. Now all agents are the same with different avatars nice work there. Who is running this ship Ronald McDonald?

FFS









Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos
Word of Chaos Undivided
Posted - 2011.05.18 06:03:00 - [75]
 

Originally by: Miss Rabblt
Originally by: Jitatolemy Aurilen
First, Learning skills, I was happy to see them go, good ridance

so you really want to see WoW here. I'm sorry.

For me removing of a learning skills was the first sign of new path of Eve: "easyer, stupidier and oriented to 2 days noobs want pew-pew"


It was only the first sign if you started late on the path.

Kandarus
Minmatar
Lyonesse.
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2011.05.18 06:05:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: CCP Guard

Same with agent quality and divisions really. That system was intended to be something it didn't turn out to be. It was supposed to add depth to the game play, but only added arbitrary complexity. Complexity is cool if it adds depth, provides a meaningful challenge, and takes some smarts to overcome but if it doesn't hit those marks it's usually just a pain in the B-hind.



I remember the first time I realized, or it was brought to my attention, that agent quality did matter.

What did I do?

I did my research. I checked out the different factions. I looked at what they offered in LP stores. I checked out locations of top agents and what hazards might be near. More specifically if an agent would occasionally request me to go to low-sec. And later, when I joined my first corp, which ones had cloning facilities easily accessible.

Overall I think it gave me a better grasp of how deep eve is, when you take time to LEARN.

But hey, I guess easy mode is good too... frankly, I enjoyed learning.

Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.05.18 07:22:00 - [77]
 

Eve is a niche product with a very strong and well captured niche audience.

Hilmar and CCP marketing department think it's has, or can have, a mass-market broadcast appeal.

Resulting in it losing it's niche and rotting.

Jitatolemy Aurilen
Posted - 2011.05.18 07:49:00 - [78]
 



Thank you for your text, unfortunately the OP isn't interested in conversation, but he does want to whine on your face.

best
AG



I am indeed insterested in convo. My point is simple. Its painfully obvious that ccp wants more people in high sec.

As there will be more money to be made, and relatively safer.

Its too bad. Eve is entertaining because it is dificult.

Difficult to make that first billion isk, difficult to find a solid corp to stick with, and difficult to stay interested.

I live in low sec so i dont have hours and hours to run missions. Cant stand the polotics of living in 0.0, im in it just to have fun.

And living in low sec, yes, sometimes its a money pit, but its enjoyable.

And every once in awhile you catch a few nice faction mods off a wreck and your stoked.

Can anyone honestly say that CCP is not trying to cater to new players, to make high sec more attractive to bring in the masses?

GREAT! more players, cheaper minerals, more people to kill....

But in the end its a slow collapse of the 0.0 infrustructure. Why live in 0.0 when you can be far wealthier living in high sec?

I really didnt expect the thread to go this far, but it makes you think, so many people have an opinion on what many claim here is a minor change, but in the long run its not so minor.

Just trying to make you think a little

P.S. Buy tengus now and sell em later, thats a money maker after a SP reimbursmant

mkint
Posted - 2011.05.18 07:50:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: CCP Guard

the 0.0 changes... I won't dive deep into that discussion.


That's because there is no 0.0 discussion because not a single member of CCP is willing to discuss with the players what's going on. No one in CCP has the balls to address any of the player concerns, just arbitrary "this is happening, and if you don't like it, **** off." Personally, I'm ambivalent about the JB nerf. It actually seems fairly reasonable to me, but what is not reasonable is the flat-out disrespect CCP has for it's players. Just a bunch of bureaucratic codemonkey asswipes wanting to get big projects on their resumes to say "we had the courage to **** in the cheerios of 300,000 gamers." Disrespect CCP. Disrespect.

Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
Posted - 2011.05.18 08:06:00 - [80]
 

Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 18/05/2011 08:06:58
Originally by: Jitatolemy Aurilen
I am indeed insterested in convo. My point is simple. Its painfully obvious that ccp wants more people in high sec.

As there will be more money to be made, and relatively safer.

Its too bad. Eve is entertaining because it is dificult.

I don't think that's 100% correct. CCP wants more subscribers or even more acurate: more money. If it appears that most people aren't attracted to low/nulsec for various reasons they may want to cater the mass by making their ecology better, simpler. Simple isn't always bad, you know.
Another option is that CCP wants people to make their money in highsec easier to finance their low/nulsec activities.

And well what exactly is so difficult about EVE? Sure there's a lot of stuff in EVE but none of it is really hard to learn, there's just a lot of it, it's more complexity by quantity.

If they really want to attract new players the best thing they can do is open a second server. So honestly I don't think this change is meant to cater newbs at all.

Ded Moroz
Caldari
Posted - 2011.05.18 08:21:00 - [81]
 

interesting....I am rather bored with WoW and I reactivated EVE today, having not played since 2007.

Curious to see if this game went downhill also.

First topic i see on the forums is this. Certainly hope that this game is still going good.

Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.05.18 09:05:00 - [82]
 

Edited by: Constantinus Maximus on 18/05/2011 09:06:06
Originally by: Jitatolemy Aurilen

Difficult to make that first billion isk, difficult to find a solid corp to stick with, and difficult to stay interested.



"Difficult" conflicted with Hilmars goal of 600k subscribers.
Everyone who wanted to play eve was already a highly loyal paying customer.
They wanted more people, so they had to make it have broader appeal, i.e. make it dumb.

edit: also customers recruited with flashy bull****, demanded more flashy bull****, who would have thunk.

Justice Comes
Posted - 2011.05.18 09:19:00 - [83]
 

I'll believe that carebears are being "catered to" when I see a revamp of the insanely repetitive and unimaginative missioning system.

Daniela Darr
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.05.18 10:25:00 - [84]
 

Originally by: Constantinus Maximus
Edited by: Constantinus Maximus on 18/05/2011 09:06:06
Originally by: Jitatolemy Aurilen

Difficult to make that first billion isk, difficult to find a solid corp to stick with, and difficult to stay interested.



"Difficult" conflicted with Hilmars goal of 600k subscribers.

600k subscribers or 600k accounts?

Miss Rabblt
Posted - 2011.05.18 11:17:00 - [85]
 

Originally by: Val'Dore
It was only the first sign if you started late on the path.

It was first time i ever read patch notesLaughing

Scarlet des Loupes
Gallente
University of Caille
Posted - 2011.05.18 12:23:00 - [86]
 

Originally by: Jitatolemy Aurilen
And so Eve follows WOW to the grave...

Some say we're born into the grave ..

Miso Hawnee
Posted - 2011.05.18 12:41:00 - [87]
 

Originally by: mkint
Originally by: CCP Guard

the 0.0 changes... I won't dive deep into that discussion.


That's because there is no 0.0 discussion because not a single member of CCP is willing to discuss with the players what's going on. No one in CCP has the balls to address any of the player concerns, just arbitrary "this is happening, and if you don't like it, **** off." Personally, I'm ambivalent about the JB nerf. It actually seems fairly reasonable to me, but what is not reasonable is the flat-out disrespect CCP has for it's players. Just a bunch of bureaucratic codemonkey asswipes wanting to get big projects on their resumes to say "we had the courage to **** in the cheerios of 300,000 gamers." Disrespect CCP. Disrespect.


Welcome to eve, here's a Rubik's cube. Now go **** yourself.


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