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blankseplocked Turning Points in the History of Eve and How CCP Ruined it
 
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Sir Oliver Midwestshire
Amarr
Posted - 2011.05.16 20:24:00 - [121]
 

Originally by: Fuzzy Wuzzi
Originally by: Hermann Fegelein
No pvpers= no demand for ships= no carebears.

Fixed. In my experience pvpers are a lot more resourceful than carebears and can easily figure out how to supply themselves. It'd just be more expensive without bears.


Only for PVP oriented ships. Ships that can do well in missions as well as industrials will still be in demand. Even if missions are removed then EVE will turn into a space mining game, which wouldn't be fun for many people but whatever.

Also the PVP community still has most of the benefits here despite how much you want to whine about not having as much as you used to.

CCP not deciding to take major action against botting is resulting in very low ship and module prices.

PVP can still happen anywhere at anytime, maybe with some CONCORD intervention but is still possible. By taking advantage of game mechanics high sec PVP is possible

Sovereignty in Nullsec has allowed the corps to have major wars and keep carebears out

Another thing, the actions of carebears don't effect you at all, in fact the prices get lower and lower because of the increasing amount of carebears. The changes that the OP was crying about is no biggy. If they didn't kill the game then then the game is fine now.

Kunming
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
Xenon-Empire
Posted - 2011.05.16 20:38:00 - [122]
 

But Rells, socialism is good.. it means even if ur kids are dumb they'll get a good education Very Happy

Seriously dont bite troll bait, national/racial discussions usually end in a locked thread.

Back to topic:

EVE got toned down in hardcoreness over the years, this was a compromise by CCP to attract the more casual player. Unfortunately the more casual player (I've been playing more casual as well actually) didnt understand EVE, or didnt had enough time to understand EVE. I played other MMOs and mentioned EVE in chats, the players that tried it had one thing in mind "EVE is the game where you work your arse off for months to lose it all in seconds".. this was the idea EVE was portraying. So, I can understand that those that enjoy the theme but not the game would like a melange environment with low risk where they can just enjoy the scenery, but this is a game its meant to be difficult and challanging, especially in the end game.

Jack Abramof
Posted - 2011.05.16 20:54:00 - [123]
 

Edited by: Jack Abramof on 16/05/2011 20:54:29
Originally by: Rells


I have never not had health care. I dont know anyone who has ever not had healthcare. I also lived in europe and I know what their idea of healthcare is. If you need a flu shot, its great. If you need a trauma 1 surgeon, a cardiologist, an oncologist or a neurosurgean, you are, frankly, screwed. Name one major medical invention in the past 30 years that has been invented in europe.




Maybe you should stick to talking about Eve online where you may have a clue, fyi neither you or myself knows who invented what during the last 30 years since neither you or myself are doctors. However saying that if you need 1 specialist in europe, you re screwed is very silly.

Our doctors are as good in europe as they re in the states or anywhere else, why should it be different ?


MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2011.05.16 20:55:00 - [124]
 

Edited by: MotherMoon on 16/05/2011 20:56:22
he's right on a number of points though.

everyone used to scream *wrap to zero ruined pvp"

it wasn't wrap to zero, it was drone salvage.0.0 should be the ONLY PLACE to grind/mine some materials. Back then people would serious defend their little spot on the map so they could get these materials in order to build their army.


however rell, take into account, if most of your concerns WERE acted on by ccp, then conchord being as strong as it is right now, wouldn't be an issue anymore.

it's the combination of conchord with drone loot. lvl 4 missions, that messes up the whole system.

LHA Tarawa
Posted - 2011.05.16 22:01:00 - [125]
 

I have only been playing for 2 years, so do not recall any of the changes mentioned in the OP. Since I started, there has always been undefeatbale CONCORD, always been L4 high sec missions, always been stations and jump drives.

However, as a new player, I think I may have a slighlt different POV than the OP.

Let's say I just started playing. I accept the tutorial curior mission that is intended to teach you how to dock, warp, jump, etc. I undock, warp to jump gate, jump in and POOF. I get killed by someone that has been playing for 5 years. What happens? I log out and never even activate my trial account into a paid subscription.

Now, let's say I have been playing a few months and am pretty easily doing L3 missions making.. maybe 1 million ISK an hour. So, I would have to grind for like... oh 40 hours to be able to buy and fot a battlecruiser. Well, I would not have been out losing ships left and right in PVP if I had to grind that long to replace them. Instead of spengin 75% of my time in PVP and 25% grinding, would would have been spending 75% or more grinding and maybe 25% missioning... if I was still bothering to even play.

POS mechanics suck. I can't imagine trying to live in 0.0 without a station.

Without jump? So I have to sit in station for a few hours waiting for enough people to log in to go chase off the station camp. Weeeee... that sounds like fun.


Yes, PVP is fun, but make it all PVP and you lose most of the potential player base.

Yes, maybe high sec L4s pay too close to low sec ratting, but really, most low sec ratting is no more risky than high sec missions if you are doing it right. High sec missions gives me something easy to do on my alt while I wait for the reds to clear our area in 0.0.... making me more ISK to buy ships to replace my PVP losses so I can do more PVP.



If you hate the changes listed in the OP, then I must assume you want a game with 10K hard core PVPers that are all 7+ year vets roaming through 5000 solar systems, hoping to bump into each other, with everyone flying in frigs because there is no safe way to make the ISK needed to replace more expensive ships.

Virtually no new players would join a game were they could so easily be destroyed by anyone else. Virtually no one that only plays 5-10 hours a week would play if there was norhign you culd do without joining in a riving gang to go PVP, and maybe shoot a few rats while scouting for the enemy.


Have they "dumbed down" Eve to apeal to the masses instead of the few hard-core PVPers that were first in? YEP! Any company interested in profits would... Which of course can be simplified to Any company would.

So, if you envision a game where players have absolute free reign to roam around anywhere, killing any other payer at any time.... then keep dreaming. Such a game would be unable to continually attract the ample supply of new players needed to replace those that move on, nor grow income sufficiently to continue development of the game.

Rells
Caldari
Fusillade.
Posted - 2011.05.16 23:44:00 - [126]
 

Originally by: LHA Tarawa

So, if you envision a game where players have absolute free reign to roam around anywhere, killing any other payer at any time.... then keep dreaming. Such a game would be unable to continually attract the ample supply of new players needed to replace those that move on, nor grow income sufficiently to continue development of the game.


Your view of 0.0 and PvP is from the point of view of a carebear and, as such, is not a complete one. Carebears tend to vastly overestimate the lethality of 0.0, the amount of points and equipment needed to be effective in PvP and their own importance in the economy. There are many people who are as sick of empire as I am and risk ratting in 0.0 and make a significant amount of isk. Unfortunately there are less than 50 systems in all of 0.0 where that really pays off versus the risk. Most of 0.0 is a barren wasteland and that is one of the maor problems.

I also dont buy the premise that there isnt an audience for a player driven game. You would call it a PKer game but I know better and that is why I call it player driven. In a player driven game it is the players that enforce peace as it exists. Someone going out and griefing a Veto player is likely to feel the wrath, not of CONCORD, but of a more virulent and persistent threat of the Veto corp and alliance itself. People in 0.0 group up for collective safety and just attacking anyone is a game few can play. Those that play it have to very good and are under constant pressure.

It isnt black and white as carebears see it. It isnt "safe carebear game or total PKer uncontrolled insanity." A player driven game uses different, player made, mechanics to govern political issues.

However, I have not advocated the crushing of high sec at this time. What is done is done. However, CCP could do many things to make PvP in 0.0 and living in 0.0 more rewarding than living in the safety of empire. The whole rixk vs reward thing could be fixed fairly easily by ccp. They dont lack the technology or tools, merely the will to do so.

Lady Spank
Amarr
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2011.05.17 00:04:00 - [127]
 

Originally by: Verone
Edited by: Verone on 16/05/2011 15:01:06
had to remove the full quote due to the post word count but its on the last page.

Verone, I am impressed with your putdowns towards this guy. He raises interesting arguments in his first post but it becomes clear he is simply clueless to the way the game has actually adjusted over the years.

Also I was sad that Veto never spoke to me when I tried to chat with them ingame when I met them in lowsec, but then again its common practice not to fraternise with the enemy Razz

Avon
Caldari
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
Posted - 2011.05.17 01:13:00 - [128]
 

I have to agree with Rells that the risk vs reward dynamic was much better when there was more need in hisec space for minerals from 0.0

People who wanted to go all shooty shooty made a lot of ISK from those who didn't want to PvP, but *needed* what the PvPers had access to.

It was all very gold-rush-gunslinging-prospector and it had an excitement about it.

Now 0.0 is more about moon-goo and powerblocs. Mining in 0.0 is not the income source it once was - and when it is done the tools now available make it a one-man-and-his-alt system cleanout session (and then jump the minerals away).

Eve has evolved in many ways, but that hasn't really made it a better game - in some ways the development has moved away from that exciting *risky* universe, and that is a shame.

Eve is still a good game, but I do understand what Rells is talking about (and agree with him in many respects).

For me the fun came not just from the killing, but from the dying - or at least the *fear* that it could happen at any time.
It was exciting because of the risk, not in spite of it.
That is what Eve lacks now.

Eve may be far more popular than it was "back in the day"; but does that mean it is better now?

Justin Bieber is popular.

Aarin Wrath
Caldari
East Khanid Trading
Khanid Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.05.17 01:32:00 - [129]
 

Edited by: Aarin Wrath on 17/05/2011 01:36:32
Originally by: Abrazzar
Originally by: Valrandir
Be silent peons.

Rells is right.


Rells is always right. Even when he's wrong. At least in his mind. Try to convince him otherwise. An exercise in futility.


Yup that sounds like my opinion of Rells too. A sad bitter vet who believes he is always right, reality be damned.
I really wish he diden't take up the 5 day offer and just stayed away.Neutral

Jorhan Brimve Stahl
Posted - 2011.05.17 02:18:00 - [130]
 

Originally by: Rells

1)We argued that once introduced the non-pvpers would demand that they be more and more effective until they were invincible.


Apocalypse with 1400mm arties doesn't care about invincible CONCORD.

Quote:

2) Only so much could be made in empire and to strike it rich you had to go to 0.0. However, that all changed when zydrine and mega were added to empire space. We argued that this would mean most of 0.0 would be a worthless wasteland and that zed and mega farmed in empire would overtake 0.0 imported. Again we were flamed to hell and back.


Statistics or it didn't happen. Your opinion doesn't count, since I know for a fact that people mine in 0.0 and w-space, plus we all know what drone regions export. Also you might want to calculate how many drone missions should you loot to build a tier 3 battleship.

Quote:

3) Introduction of the level 4 mission. This was a carebears dream. The carebear could patiently work himself up billions of isk with very little in danger. It also presented a further reason to avoid 0.0 like the plague.


Yeah, because we all know that poor people in 0.0 only made like 100mil per hour in those sweet sanctums. Also we all know that radar/mag plexes in 0.0 are utterly useless and combat plexes don't produce anything of value.


Quote:

Since these events Eve has been trending more and more towards the carebear.


That's why CONCORD reacts instantly and there are no insurance payouts for suicide ganks. And you can't loot other people's stuff and can't wardec anyone. Damn carebears!

Tobiaz
Spacerats
Posted - 2011.05.17 03:07:00 - [131]
 

Originally by: Eyup Mi'duck
Pure PvP is at the top of the EVE foodchain. PvP'ers carnivorous activity doesn't actually create anything, it just consumes and redistributes stuff made by the herbivores and pond life lower down the food chain. And yes, it takes a lot of herbivores to feed one carnivore - hence the EVE demographics and CCP's motivation to help carebears. Without carebearing, EvE's economy would grind to a halt.

IMHO it was the introduction of bubbles that ruined a whole chunk of the game. It threw up a fence around 0.0 that has stopped much of the traffic in and out of nullsec, and created the need for jumpdrives. Being able to leapfrog along critical traderoutes has killed many types of gameplay. Now nullsec is only really viable with a jumpdrive and connections.

Yes I am an 8 year old player, and now live self sufficiently in empire space, getting my high-end mins from L4 drone missions, and additional revenue from manufacturing, PI and research. It was the bubbles drove me to this. It was either that, or become a serf in a mega-corp wracked by political ego-maniacs and high tax rates. Not my style.

C'est la vie, yes it could be so much better but it's still a damn good game.




Most of EVE's PvP is funded by alts, which is a bit too schizophrenic for your analogy to work, I think.

Fuzzy Wuzzi
Amarr
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2011.05.17 03:09:00 - [132]
 

Originally by: Avon
People who wanted to go all shooty shooty made a lot of ISK from those who didn't want to PvP, but *needed* what the PvPers had access to.

It was all very gold-rush-gunslinging-prospector and it had an excitement about it.


I yearn for this, CCP, plz bring it back! Carebears will whine at first but thank you later for making their game more exciting!

Zaerlorth Maelkor
The Maverick Navy
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2011.05.17 03:26:00 - [133]
 

Originally by: Rells
When it comes to guns, the first stept in totalitarianism is to disarm the population.


You did not just turn this into a pro-guns thread. Everything you have said and will say from now on is invalid.

Rells
Caldari
Fusillade.
Posted - 2011.05.17 16:38:00 - [134]
 

Originally by: Avon
I have to agree with Rells that the risk vs reward dynamic was much better when there was more need in hisec space for minerals from 0.0

People who wanted to go all shooty shooty made a lot of ISK from those who didn't want to PvP, but *needed* what the PvPers had access to.

It was all very gold-rush-gunslinging-prospector and it had an excitement about it.

Now 0.0 is more about moon-goo and powerblocs. Mining in 0.0 is not the income source it once was - and when it is done the tools now available make it a one-man-and-his-alt system cleanout session (and then jump the minerals away).

Eve has evolved in many ways, but that hasn't really made it a better game - in some ways the development has moved away from that exciting *risky* universe, and that is a shame.

Eve is still a good game, but I do understand what Rells is talking about (and agree with him in many respects).

For me the fun came not just from the killing, but from the dying - or at least the *fear* that it could happen at any time.
It was exciting because of the risk, not in spite of it.
That is what Eve lacks now.

Eve may be far more popular than it was "back in the day"; but does that mean it is better now?

Justin Bieber is popular.



Avon, you and I dont often agree but I agree with you here.

The real shame is that it doesnt have to end this way. It can be changed. Many of the high sec issues will not go away but 0.0 can be made to be significantly richer than empire (boosters, more valuable moons, rat buffs) and CCP could spend some significant time working on tools to allow players to not just hang out in 0.0 for arena style battle but actually build kingdoms out there. Its all possible. However, I fear they will never do it. Look at their current intiatives and you see where their heart now lies; in carebearing and irrlevant fluff like walking in stations.

Xylengra
Posted - 2011.05.17 16:46:00 - [135]
 

Yesterday, you said you had spent 4 days tooling around in nullsec, so if you are to be believed, this is the last day of your free Eve.

Goodbye.

Rells
Caldari
Fusillade.
Posted - 2011.05.17 16:58:00 - [136]
 

Originally by: Xylengra
Yesterday, you said you had spent 4 days tooling around in nullsec, so if you are to be believed, this is the last day of your free Eve.

Goodbye.


Never fear, I have a lot of isk and could mess around with my current experiment for months without giving CCP another dime. I appreciate your concern though. ;)

Corbulo Typhonius
Caldari
Posted - 2011.05.17 17:55:00 - [137]
 

Originally by: Rells
Every now and then I get an email in my inbox inviting me to reactivate my account for a few days for free and see what has changed. Invariably I take them up on the offer, hoping to see vast improvements in the gameplay. Unfortunately there is nothing compelling about the game anymore and I invariably end up canceling again. This got me to thinking about what exactly killed Eve for the PvPer? There are four main turning points of note that we can point to that have pushed Eve into becoming a carebear game that has a bit of "arena" PvP.

1) The creation of CONCORD. Concord was supposed to be this mild mannered police force when it was created but the developers went to great pain to tell us that they were not invincible and that they could be defeated. Many of us screamed that the introduction of CONCORD would invariably lead to them becoming ubiquitous and undefeatable. We argued that once introduced the non-pvpers would demand that they be more and more effective until they were invincible. We were, of course, flamed out of existence, excoriated as being irrational and overreacting.

2) Addition of Zydrine and Megacyte to NPC drone loot via compounds. Prior to the introduction of dropped refillable compounds the only source for zydrine and megabyte was 0.0. This made a very compelling reason to go to 0.0 to gain more riches. Only so much could be made in empire and to strike it rich you had to go to 0.0. However, that all changed when zydrine and mega were added to empire space. We argued that this would mean most of 0.0 would be a worthless wasteland and that zed and mega farmed in empire would overtake 0.0 imported. Again we were flamed to hell and back.

3) Introduction of the level 4 mission. This was a carebears dream. The carebear could patiently work himself up billions of isk with very little in danger. It also presented a further reason to avoid 0.0 like the plague. Why risk ratting expensive rats in 0.0 when you could burn through missions in peace in high sec. 0.0 went from being the end game to being a 99% complete wasteland. There are 2 or three areas in all of 0.0 now that are worth even owning. The rest of it is a glorified WOW arena.

4) The introduction of Jump drive. Once upon a time alliances made huge convoys of freighters to get critical equipment into 0.0. Those convoys were often attacked by those with the moxy and that required their protection. Supply lines were critical to maintain and the deeper you went in 0.0 the harder it was. After the introduction of jump drives, carriers and jump freighters load up in empire and jump safely to POS shields and stations. Interdiction is pretty much impossible if the logistics people have any idea what they are doing. Strategic warfare was eliminated.

Since these events Eve has been trending more and more towards the carebear. CCP has made half hearted attempts to shore up pvp but introducing new and expensive types of ships doesn't do anything to address the fundamental problems introduced into the game. Furthermore, CCP has been unwilling to provide the tools for players to carve out their own little kingdoms in 0.0. Currently the blob rules 0.0 space and strategic warfare is a joke at best. CCP has failed to introduce things like faction bubbles, faction locked gates, player deployed gate guns or any of a billion ideas proposed by hundreds of players over the years.

..... Continued below ....


In a way I do agree, I personaly am a carebear ATM, I do wish to go into low sec and even 0.0, Yet from what you say, There is no reason bar fighting, I do agree there should be hidden richs in 0.0 to tempt people to come out, As I'v never been there, The rest of you will know what's out there better than I do but I do hope there is something very valuable out there to make it worthleaving high sec, Other wise it's pointless, As I'v stated I have no ambition to go into 0.0, Yet I hope they improve it for everyone else and make it worth it.

Kerppe Krulli
Posted - 2011.05.17 18:30:00 - [138]
 

I've played EVE off and on for years now and watched it grow every time I came back. CCP is doing what they should, growing a game and the company. How many subs were in this game when it was mostly PVP, how many subs are in this game now? Guess which number CCP cares about?

The game has grown from High sec, low sec, 0.0, WH. Each has a unique play style. The discussion to force people out of high sec sounds more like you want more targets to simply kill for the **** of it because you can. This will cause a vast majority of those "carebears" to quit the game which equals less subs which equals fired developers and lessening of server resources which equals a crappier game. You need to look at the game as a whole and how it is constantly growing and evolving. CCP is doing a great job growing the game and the company.

The other discussions regarding minerals are similarly self-serving and are aimed only at lining someone's personal pockets rather than balancing the entire game. People live in high sec and WH why shouldn't they have access to the resources to make stuff without being entire dependent on 0.0 space? What makes 0.0 space so revered. Currently the best Moons rats belts and ice are in 0.0, it sounds more like the 0.0 alliances and players want a complete lock to dictate all prices and thus really inflate their wallets. This is not game balance and adding the minerals elsewhere does not break anything, it balances the needs of people enjoying high sec and people in 0.0.

As to 0.0 space, currently there is a forum to let CCP know when you will have a fight out there so the node doesn't crash. In its current form, CCP could never run servers with even half the high sec population in 0.0 space, the game experience would degrade and cause people to quit and more whines about how bad the game is.

Its amazing how far this game has come over the years and I'm excited on how it will grow and change. Nothing stays the same and you must adapt to the new changes. Remember, CCP has to balance the needs of current users but still make the game exciting and fulfilling enough to attract new users. That is their only concern.

Ghurthe
Posted - 2011.05.17 18:47:00 - [139]
 

I completely agree that the proliferation of Megacyte and Zydrine was the start of the big declines in pvp.

Drone loot was one cause, and lately, the introduction of things like grav sites to all space with high mining indices.

This normalization of 0.0 space has to stop, make nullsec work again.

Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
Posted - 2011.05.17 19:01:00 - [140]
 

Edited by: Le Skunk on 17/05/2011 19:03:35
Originally by: Jorhan Brimve Stahl

Apocalypse with 1400mm arties doesn't care about invincible CONCORD.

That's why CONCORD reacts instantly and there are no insurance payouts for suicide ganks. And you can't loot other people's stuff and can't wardec anyone. Damn carebears!


Fairly irrelevant

* Buy item in jita 4-4
* Put in jump freighter
* Undock, Cyno to station in lowsec before being tacklable
* Spam dock
* Undock, wait 30 seconds, cyno to staion in 0.0 whilst not being tackelable
* Spam dock

Repeat Process a few times

* Arrive in 0.0 system, dock and put Item on market.
* Reverse process with 11 gillion worth of moon goo.

There is, in reality and baring a computer failure, absolutley ZERO risk for the item bought in the heart of empire and transported as far as possible in eve to the depths of 0.0

None at all.

Even spitter stations were removed by ccp some months ago as that posed a TINY WEE RISK that if you were slack and messed up you wouldnt be able to redock.

As for wardecs... RIGHT CLICK... LEAVE CORP. Done! Hooray for Risk vs Reward

SKUNK





Jorhan Brimve Stahl
Posted - 2011.05.17 19:37:00 - [141]
 

Edited by: Jorhan Brimve Stahl on 17/05/2011 19:40:47
Originally by: Le Skunk
Edited by: Le Skunk on 17/05/2011 19:03:35
Originally by: Jorhan Brimve Stahl

Apocalypse with 1400mm arties doesn't care about invincible CONCORD.

That's why CONCORD reacts instantly and there are no insurance payouts for suicide ganks. And you can't loot other people's stuff and can't wardec anyone. Damn carebears!


Fairly irrelevant

* Buy item in jita 4-4
* Put in jump freighter
* Undock, Cyno to station in lowsec before being tacklable
* Spam dock
* Undock, wait 30 seconds, cyno to staion in 0.0 whilst not being tackelable
* Spam dock

Repeat Process a few times

* Arrive in 0.0 system, dock and put Item on market.
* Reverse process with 11 gillion worth of moon goo.


Right, because you can light a cyno at Jita 4-4 undock and anyone can transport anything anywhere using a jump freighter.
Obviously you've missed hundreds of suicide ganks against both haulers and mission-fit ships.

Anyway, it's not the point since OP insists that EVE Is Dying (tm) BECAUSE OF CAREBEARS (tm). IIRC those carebears were whining about both ganks and wardecs for at least three years now, but somehow these activities didn't fall victims to nerfbat of doom.


Quote:

As for wardecs... RIGHT CLICK... LEAVE CORP. Done! Hooray for Risk vs Reward


Damn those POSes quitting wardeced corps and people disbanding wardeced alliances at once!
Oh, and certain Kestrel with 74 plexes didn't happen.

Also, this crap about "risk vs. reward" boils down to "people do what I don't like and get away with this!".
W-space is more profitable than highsec. 0.0 is more profitable than highsec. Highsec's crushing advantage is that it is convenient. To anyone telling me that all EVE space must be a second full-time job I have only one answer: sod off.

elenasa
Posted - 2011.05.17 19:44:00 - [142]
 

A gate is doscovered in Eveworld that has not been seen before. It allows only frigate size ships to pass through, and what it leads to is a universe that is unchartered, unexplored, untainted by exploitation and colonisation. In this part of space, or new universe in a multi-verse, there is no security, no police, no laws, no rules, no conventions, no safe areas, and, very significantly: no way back.

If CCP were to open-up such a server, who would jump through?

Jorhan Brimve Stahl
Posted - 2011.05.17 19:54:00 - [143]
 

Edited by: Jorhan Brimve Stahl on 17/05/2011 19:57:28
Originally by: elenasa. It allows only frigate size ships to pass through, and what it leads to is a universe that is unchartered, unexplored, untainted by exploitation and colonisation. In this part of space, or new universe in a multi-verse, there is no security, no police, no laws, no rules, no conventions, no safe areas, and, very significantly: no way back.
[/quote


Do you mean c1-c2 w-space without probe launcher?

Wolfric Draksmile
Posted - 2011.05.17 20:06:00 - [144]
 

I agree with one thing.
0.0 should be like Wormholes withaout local.
But the scanner should be enhance A radar should automaticall rescan. all 15s, All 30s?

Opertone
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2011.05.17 20:07:00 - [145]
 

Originally by: garus banta
Edited by: garus banta on 16/05/2011 17:59:16

You fail to realize a very important point.
When you started playing eve, the very first pod pilots to begin their adventure in new eden,all were balanced. All of you had the same starting point and skill sets which had to be trained up.

Fast forward 5 years into the future as new players join the game. You have an unfair advantage over noobs, they can't compete with you, you make their lives miserable, and unlike your experience in eve theirs is much more harsh. They can't start like you, with every player balanced. They start UNBALANCED.

Do you see where I'm going with this? The introduction of lv4, jump bridges, was not meant for you. It was meant for smaller / younger players. Now one can argue that it's unfair but the truth is you are a dinosaur. You are too old to play eve online and your character has too much experience.

You need to retire your toon and start over. But most people will not biomass a 100 million SP, so, to keep the game balanced empire space has to be rewarding as well.

It's not easy in empire either, there is much more competition then 0.0 or even lowsec. Making money via lv4 is also no picnic either, and you are dead wrong about the risk. lv 4 has risks if you don't know what you are doing, it also takes a few months of grinding to get to level 4.

So please old man, stop *****ing about the old days and enjoy your retirement. You are obsolete.


/thread

eve can't be fresh, just like you can't eat 5 L of honey without rash.

Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
Posted - 2011.05.17 20:09:00 - [146]
 

Edited by: Le Skunk on 17/05/2011 20:20:08

Originally by: Jorhan Brimve Stahl

Right, because you can light a cyno at Jita 4-4 undock and anyone can transport anything anywhere using a jump freighter.



All your points are totaly wrong


So you have no issue with my point that you can transport an item from jita to the depths of 0.0 with no risk. Its just the last couple of jumps on the RETURN journey you find scary?

The scarey return journey is indeed a risky one, and goes as follows.

* Cyno to station one jump off highsec.
* Spam dock.
* Undock, stop ship, are unlockable for 30 seconds wherupon you instantly dock if ANY sign of trouble.
* If no trouble outside, warp to ZERO on a high sec gate and jump through
* 3 Jumps to Jita through no system lower then 0.8.

Switching to an armor tanked cloaky legion can be done in station for small items.

Item has now gone from jita 4-4 to deep nullsec and back to jita 4-4 with ABSOLUTLEY NO RISK baring a computer failure,

Quote:

Obviously you've missed hundreds of suicide ganks against both haulers and mission-fit ships.



Missed them? Ive been the one firing. No hauler need be ever suicide ganked (use a cloaky or an orca) and faction items have nosedived so badly in price (due to 0.0 cheesers semi afking/macroing through anoms) most mission ships aint worth the bother (baring the idiots who fit all officer)

The only peeps who get suicide ganked are the ones who have taken shortcuts, are carrying to much in the wrong hull, are not aware of the game mechanisms, or are killed for a loss out of grief tactics.

Quote:

Anyway, it's not the point since OP insists that EVE Is Dying (tm) BECAUSE OF CAREBEARS (tm). IIRC those carebears were whining about both ganks and wardecs for at least three years now, but somehow these activities didn't fall victims to nerfbat of doom.



* Insurance has been nerfed rasing suicide prices
* War dec avoidance has been judged legal by ccp
* War dec prices were made cumulative
* Concord timers have been sped up
* Sec drops have been increased

Theres a few off the top of my head.

Quote:

Damn those POSes quitting wardeced corps and people disbanding wardeced alliances at once!

Oh, and certain Kestrel with 74 plexes didn't happen.



* Poses exist in lowsec and nullsec and dont need a wardec to kill so thats totally irrelevant.

* If you have ever wardecced an alliance the first thing you notice is 5-10 corps immediatly dropping the alliance to avoid the dec. You get a nice little mail in your inbox for each corp that drops. Sometimes you get three or four mails within an hour of setting the dec.

* Kestrel popped was an example of a pilot choosing the wrong ship for his haul (see above). If put in the correct ship, the 74 plex would have been transported RISK FREE!

CONCLUSION


Everything you said was demonstratably wrong and you should think before posting on subjects you do not known about

SKUNK

Sorted
DEATH'S LEGION
Posted - 2011.05.17 20:18:00 - [147]
 

Edited by: Sorted on 17/05/2011 20:19:19
Le Skunk 4 points, Random noob 0 points.
We have a clear winner. Mr Skunk.
Random Noob, your posting privilages should be revoked.

Whistler Vinci
Perkone
Posted - 2011.05.17 20:23:00 - [148]
 

Originally by: Dranadar
Originally by: Jorhan Brimve Stahl
crap.


ahahahaha your an idiot.


posting to confirm. That guy's a tool

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Posted - 2011.05.17 20:27:00 - [149]
 

Agree with point 2-4, in fact I'd expand on the mega/zydrine point and say it should be purely from mining in null and a major requirement for supercap building. Hell, even make the size of the actual minerals ten times the size of today so it's a ***** to haul them, and make it unable to get them from reprocessing.

(Nullsec) miners need some love, and supercap production needs to be helluva lot more expensive, it seems like the perfect fit to match them together.

When it comes to point one tho; it'd be way too abuse if there was a weakened CONCORD around. Players can easily field hundreds, if not thousands of players if they want. A proper RR BS blob that could tank CONCORD? They'd effectively shut down highsec pipes, tradehubs, etc. It'd be beyond griefing. It has to be a limit somewhere. Maybe slow down CONCORD somewhat, and make it possible to deagress and get out in a reasonable time, or similar.

Either case, refreshing post, to see some constructive points that isn't the usual whineage. +internets to you, sir.

O Wren
Caldari
Posted - 2011.05.17 20:33:00 - [150]
 

Originally by: Dalmont Delantee
I can see your points, but also agree with the other guys, adapt or die, games change.

EVE has so many options, if pvp is the only thing you want to do then its there, you just have to find it.






This. Short, well put, no immature jabs. In other words DEAL


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