open All Channels
seplocked EVE General Discussion
blankseplocked Turning Points in the History of Eve and How CCP Ruined it
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6

Author Topic

Rells
Caldari
Fusillade.
Posted - 2011.05.15 10:21:00 - [1]
 

Every now and then I get an email in my inbox inviting me to reactivate my account for a few days for free and see what has changed. Invariably I take them up on the offer, hoping to see vast improvements in the gameplay. Unfortunately there is nothing compelling about the game anymore and I invariably end up canceling again. This got me to thinking about what exactly killed Eve for the PvPer? There are four main turning points of note that we can point to that have pushed Eve into becoming a carebear game that has a bit of "arena" PvP.

1) The creation of CONCORD. Concord was supposed to be this mild mannered police force when it was created but the developers went to great pain to tell us that they were not invincible and that they could be defeated. Many of us screamed that the introduction of CONCORD would invariably lead to them becoming ubiquitous and undefeatable. We argued that once introduced the non-pvpers would demand that they be more and more effective until they were invincible. We were, of course, flamed out of existence, excoriated as being irrational and overreacting.

2) Addition of Zydrine and Megacyte to NPC drone loot via compounds. Prior to the introduction of dropped refillable compounds the only source for zydrine and megabyte was 0.0. This made a very compelling reason to go to 0.0 to gain more riches. Only so much could be made in empire and to strike it rich you had to go to 0.0. However, that all changed when zydrine and mega were added to empire space. We argued that this would mean most of 0.0 would be a worthless wasteland and that zed and mega farmed in empire would overtake 0.0 imported. Again we were flamed to hell and back.

3) Introduction of the level 4 mission. This was a carebears dream. The carebear could patiently work himself up billions of isk with very little in danger. It also presented a further reason to avoid 0.0 like the plague. Why risk ratting expensive rats in 0.0 when you could burn through missions in peace in high sec. 0.0 went from being the end game to being a 99% complete wasteland. There are 2 or three areas in all of 0.0 now that are worth even owning. The rest of it is a glorified WOW arena.

4) The introduction of Jump drive. Once upon a time alliances made huge convoys of freighters to get critical equipment into 0.0. Those convoys were often attacked by those with the moxy and that required their protection. Supply lines were critical to maintain and the deeper you went in 0.0 the harder it was. After the introduction of jump drives, carriers and jump freighters load up in empire and jump safely to POS shields and stations. Interdiction is pretty much impossible if the logistics people have any idea what they are doing. Strategic warfare was eliminated.

Since these events Eve has been trending more and more towards the carebear. CCP has made half hearted attempts to shore up pvp but introducing new and expensive types of ships doesn't do anything to address the fundamental problems introduced into the game. Furthermore, CCP has been unwilling to provide the tools for players to carve out their own little kingdoms in 0.0. Currently the blob rules 0.0 space and strategic warfare is a joke at best. CCP has failed to introduce things like faction bubbles, faction locked gates, player deployed gate guns or any of a billion ideas proposed by hundreds of players over the years.

..... Continued below ....

Rells
Caldari
Fusillade.
Posted - 2011.05.15 10:25:00 - [2]
 

.... Continued from original post ....


It makes one wonder what happened. Those that created eve were visionaries. They advertised a hard-nosed, pvp centric game. Did the bean counters get ahold of eve and demand that it be made like WoW? Did the bean counters point at the success of WoW and say "yeah do it like they did!!" That is the only logical conclusion I can reach. After all no one in the MMOG industry has innovated since eve came out. Stripping off graphics and sound, almost all other MMOGs play exactly the same. The industry has almost frozen turning out clones of the same tired old gameplay. The beancounters seem to have forgotten what it is like to innovate, take risks and come up with something new. Instead their eyes glaze with avarice at the WoW market and fail to consider there might be other untapped markets out there.

So many games purport to be the next best thing in pvp; Shadowbane, Darkfall, Mortal Online, and all of them end up getting flushed down the toilet of carebearism and turned into wow clones. Is it possible that no one is able to innovate anymore in the industry? Like movies that have gotten so stale in their creativity that they are remaking old classics, the MMOG industry seems to be slapping new graphics on the same gameplay once a year. Once the players find out that the game is the same, the would be pvpers drift away, and are flamed out the door. A vast audience that is of yet untapped. An audience that includes myself as well as most of the old eve pvpers that no longer play anymore.

At any rate this post is likely to get flamed as well. Just as all of the other posts on those 4 turning points have gotten flamed. Its just too bad that we end up being right about these things so often. The irony of the carebear is that despite being the "non-violent" type in game, those that are carebears are often nasty violent in the forums. *shrug* Go figure.

CCP could change their tune and start pushing eve back to a pvp centric game. I doubt they will but they could. I guess I will await my next email of free time to find out.

Xavier Isaacson
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2011.05.15 10:25:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Xavier Isaacson on 15/05/2011 10:27:43
Your stuff, I can haz?

Also, I should point out that yes, this thread is likely to get flamed to hell and back because all you are doing is whining. You offer no insights, no proposals for change, in fact you offer nothing at all but a stellar example of bitter vet syndrome.

Oh and by the by, I've been playing EVE for almost 7 years, which in a lot of peoples eyes makes me a vet. The difference between me and you is that I recognise the need for change in an ever changing world.

Koss Rells
Posted - 2011.05.15 10:27:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Xavier Isaacson
Your stuff, I can haz?


How original. Only a feeble mind could think of such a reply to such a post.

ZenSun
SniggWaffe
FREE KARTTOON NOW
Posted - 2011.05.15 10:28:00 - [5]
 

Things change..

Adapt or die.

Xavier Isaacson
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2011.05.15 10:29:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Koss Rells
Originally by: Xavier Isaacson
Your stuff, I can haz?


How original. Only a feeble mind could think of such a reply to such a post.


Just making a placeholder for a longer comment is all. Also it could be argued that only a feeble mind offers nothing new, which is pretty much sums up the entirety of your massive post.

Rells
Caldari
Fusillade.
Posted - 2011.05.15 10:33:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Xavier Isaacson
Edited by: Xavier Isaacson on 15/05/2011 10:27:43
Your stuff, I can haz?

Also, I should point out that yes, this thread is likely to get flamed to hell and back because all you are doing is whining. You offer no insights, no proposals for change, in fact you offer nothing at all but a stellar example of bitter vet syndrome.

Oh and by the by, I've been playing EVE for almost 7 years, which in a lot of peoples eyes makes me a vet. The difference between me and you is that I recognise the need for change in an ever changing world.


Clearly you failed to read the whole post. That or you suffer from insipid stupidity. I stated that there have been billions of ideas proposed by hundreds of players over the years to revive both 0.0 and pvp, to give tools to create more coherent and lifelike kingdoms in 0.0. I need not go over all of those suggestions yet again. They are easily findable for all to see.

I wouldnt be surprised if you had played several years but if you have and agree with where the game is, that just means you have been an empire rat the majority of your gameplay time. Perhaps a builder of ships, a trader, who knows. But a pvper would have to be out of his friggin mind to agree with the direction of the game as it stands.

Sarmatiko
Posted - 2011.05.15 10:39:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Sarmatiko on 15/05/2011 10:43:06
YC113.10.05 Angel Cartel Incursions to the Amarr/Khanid border systems. More PVE.
Go ahead, cry more Smile

Originally by: Rells
Fortunately I have ample firearms to protect her from creeps like you.

You know, countries where people without brain or sense of humor are prohibited from gun ownership is much more safer than your current cowboy land.

Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
Posted - 2011.05.15 10:39:00 - [9]
 

One proposal to change EVE drastically: remove clones.

Joking aside, I'm sometimes a bit sad that I haven't played EVE in the starting days when a battleship was still an impressive vessel, there wasn't T2 stuff and the universe was still a vast and mostly empty explorable area without capital hotdrops.

Daemeon Fyral
Minmatar
Kinda'Shujaa
Posted - 2011.05.15 10:39:00 - [10]
 

Okay, so you have a couple good points, the core problem I see you having though is that you seem too want eve to be this giant pvp playground. and sure that may be fun for you for many other players that just isn't the way they roll. Sure eve isn't perfect and they are "working on" ways to try and fix some of its issues. The way things are currently actually works fairly well in my opinion, if someone wants safety they can stick to high-sec, they want to get involved in alliances they can head to 0.0 and if they just want to go and shoot at people theres always low-sec.

EVE will never be perfect, and it will never fit everyones play style. if they make changes you either adapt to it (which alot of the veterans have) or you leave (which is what you did) as for them "pushing away certain players" as I mentioned there is no way they could ever appease everyone, hell half of the changes that you lambaste as "ruining the game" are the exact same changes that prevented me and probably a lot of other players like me from leaving after the free trial.

CONCORD for example, smart idea in my opinion, gives a bit of a safe haven for new players while they get on their feet instead of being killed instantly the second they undock for the first time. new player retention = more people to shoot at in the long term. Sure I think they could be scaled back a little bit, make it so if your smart about it you MIGHT be able to escape em. but at the end of the day their presence helps the game far far more than it hurts it. if even for every 1 person that quits because they can't pew pew anywhere and everywhere eve manages to retain even 2 new players who wouldn't have stayed otherwise then their existence is justified.

Also, can I haz your stuff?

Tosser Galore
Posted - 2011.05.15 10:42:00 - [11]
 

0.0 is nerfed again, again and again.

Supply lines should be crucial. So begone "intricate" net of jump bridges.
(it's the same story in every game; it caters to teh blooooooooooooob)

Remove Local.

L4 is currently as good as or better than a lot of content (income wise) in 0.0.

Ps. Bring back Yulai.


Xavier Isaacson
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2011.05.15 10:45:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Rells
Originally by: Xavier Isaacson
Edited by: Xavier Isaacson on 15/05/2011 10:27:43
Your stuff, I can haz?

Also, I should point out that yes, this thread is likely to get flamed to hell and back because all you are doing is whining. You offer no insights, no proposals for change, in fact you offer nothing at all but a stellar example of bitter vet syndrome.

Oh and by the by, I've been playing EVE for almost 7 years, which in a lot of peoples eyes makes me a vet. The difference between me and you is that I recognise the need for change in an ever changing world.


Clearly you failed to read the whole post. That or you suffer from insipid stupidity. I stated that there have been billions of ideas proposed by hundreds of players over the years to revive both 0.0 and pvp, to give tools to create more coherent and lifelike kingdoms in 0.0. I need not go over all of those suggestions yet again. They are easily findable for all to see.

I wouldnt be surprised if you had played several years but if you have and agree with where the game is, that just means you have been an empire rat the majority of your gameplay time. Perhaps a builder of ships, a trader, who knows. But a pvper would have to be out of his friggin mind to agree with the direction of the game as it stands.


Perhaps it might be a good idea for you to re-read my posts Mr Rells, since I paid you the courtesy of reading your giant wall of whine. You did not offer any fresh insights, you did not back up ANY of your comments or statements with evidence of any kind at all and clearly did not read my post properly.

I can confidently state that not once did I say I agreed with all of the changes, nor that I was entirely satisfied with the direction of the game. And whilst I do now reside in empire it is more due to the fact that this suits my current available time in real life. I dwelt in both low security space and null sec space for quite some time when I was a new player and continued to do so for many years and found it to be quite satisfying. In fact there is still a great deal of satisfaction to be had living in null sec.

I happily confess that CCP have made mistakes, some of which have been rectified, others that haven't, but as I stated before, I recognise the need for (and to be utterly clear here, this does not mean "agree with any and all") changes in an ever changing world.

I hope this clarifies things for you.

Elayae
Gallente
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
Posted - 2011.05.15 10:47:00 - [13]
 

PvP orientated players (or killers) are parasitic on the other types of MMO players. MMO types

Although I agree with your points, to get more PvP orientated players you need larger numbers of the other types to get even more PvP players. EVE needs a good basis and balance in all MMO type departments, which has been done pretty good with the division of different security areas in the game. The first step that is going reverse a bit of your point 4 is the new jump drive adjustment, hopefully followed up by a zero security package of new things and goals for the PvP player. Zero security changes


Dalmont Delantee
Gallente
Shiloh Technologies
Posted - 2011.05.15 10:48:00 - [14]
 

I can see your points, but also agree with the other guys, adapt or die, games change.

EVE has so many options, if pvp is the only thing you want to do then its there, you just have to find it.




Rells
Caldari
Fusillade.
Posted - 2011.05.15 10:55:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Elayae
PvP orientated players (or killers) are parasitic on the other types of MMO players. MMO types

Although I agree with your points, to get more PvP orientated players you need larger numbers of the other types to get even more PvP players. EVE needs a good basis and balance in all MMO type departments, which has been done pretty good with the division of different security areas in the game. The first step that is going reverse a bit of your point 4 is the new jump drive adjustment, hopefully followed up by a zero security package of new things and goals for the PvP player. Zero security changes




You have it backwards. The PvPers were here before the carebears. And most of them have gone. The jump bridge adjustment is irrelevant and will only aid superalliances, hurting all other smaller alliances. If you want to be an empire dweller that is up to you, but it does make you wholly disqualified to talk about the issues I address in my post.

Originally by: Dalmont Delantee
I can see your points, but also agree with the other guys, adapt or die, games change.

EVE has so many options, if pvp is the only thing you want to do then its there, you just have to find it.



As I said to the other person, epire dwelers have no frame of reference to qualify them to talk on issues of 0.0 or pvp. Your statement alone would indicate you have not been out to 0.0 at all. It would also indicate you missed the other themes of the post.

Dalmont Delantee
Gallente
Shiloh Technologies
Posted - 2011.05.15 10:58:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Rells
Originally by: Elayae
PvP orientated players (or killers) are parasitic on the other types of MMO players. MMO types

Although I agree with your points, to get more PvP orientated players you need larger numbers of the other types to get even more PvP players. EVE needs a good basis and balance in all MMO type departments, which has been done pretty good with the division of different security areas in the game. The first step that is going reverse a bit of your point 4 is the new jump drive adjustment, hopefully followed up by a zero security package of new things and goals for the PvP player. Zero security changes




You have it backwards. The PvPers were here before the carebears. And most of them have gone. The jump bridge adjustment is irrelevant and will only aid superalliances, hurting all other smaller alliances. If you want to be an empire dweller that is up to you, but it does make you wholly disqualified to talk about the issues I address in my post.

Originally by: Dalmont Delantee
I can see your points, but also agree with the other guys, adapt or die, games change.

EVE has so many options, if pvp is the only thing you want to do then its there, you just have to find it.



As I said to the other person, epire dwelers have no frame of reference to qualify them to talk on issues of 0.0 or pvp. Your statement alone would indicate you have not been out to 0.0 at all. It would also indicate you missed the other themes of the post.


Actually I live in 0.0. Thnx bai

Void Kraken
Posted - 2011.05.15 11:06:00 - [17]
 

Rells...? Rells...?

Oh, right, 5 day reactivation offer.

Rells
Caldari
Fusillade.
Posted - 2011.05.15 11:08:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Rells on 15/05/2011 11:08:20
Originally by: Aeronwen Carys
Edited by: Aeronwen Carys on 15/05/2011 11:02:47
Originally by: Rells
Edited by: Rells on 15/05/2011 10:58:31
Anyone who thinks that is funny is patently sick. That is the reason my house is armed to theteeth of course. Because there are, unfortunately, a lot of psychotic wackos like you two out there. Despite my irritation at the game I know most poeple out there in the eve world are not as disgusting as you. Hopefully you will be caught, or shot by a father, before you hurt a child.


You need to chill out and get off the forums mate. I think you've had one too many cups of coffee today. You aren't reading anything anyone has to say, you dismiss anyone who disagrees with you and then start threatening to kill people and hoping they die.

Go play Call of Duty for a while, or perhaps you would prefer to go hunting?


I didnt threaten anyone with a different opinion about eve. I threatened those that think the molestation of my 5 year old would be funny. And absolutely I threaten them. They better stay in their respective sludge holes. If they come anywhere close to my children they will find out I am deadly serious.

Arguing about a game is one thing. Threatening a 5 year old girl in real life is something I will call out for the sick crap it is.

As for gaming, COD is a superfluous, shallow waste of time.

Sorted
DEATH'S LEGION
Posted - 2011.05.15 11:09:00 - [19]
 

Good post; I know so many that are waiting for the "next game". CoHo and WoT have been helping us pass the time, but something more long term is still missing.
I want to get on board with a game whos developers know where they are going and stick with it, and not merrily driving us over the hill to HelloKitty.

Substance has been sold out for subs. Crying or Very sad

Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
Posted - 2011.05.15 11:09:00 - [20]
 

Yes, CCP did all wrong. EVE population increased from 40.000 to 360.000, EVE is more diverse and richer than ever before. There are more out-of-game activites like Festivals, Lotteries, Books, Contests etc. than ever before.

Yeah, CCP did all wrong and some people know it all better.

Not that CCP did all right, no one does! But saying that they did all wrong is pretty messed up.

Ghoest
Posted - 2011.05.15 11:10:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Ghoest on 15/05/2011 11:14:37
Edited by: Ghoest on 15/05/2011 11:12:51
Nothing is "ruined", many still play the game , even though its not ideal - the title is bad.

And although things could be better but I doubt most people even agree that some of that stuff is a problem.

But I do agree that jump drives made little sense. They pretty much removed hauler as target of pirates, which makes little sense.
Imagine if pirates of the 1700s had tried to make a living attcking warships. Thats the silliness we have now.

Aeronwen Carys
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2011.05.15 11:14:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Dalmont Delantee

Nah it won't be coffee he's drinking, more likely neat moonshine. Any mention of guns always makes me think of redneck eating travellers with their mum/sister in a box under their bed. Maybe I've watched too much X-Files...


I actually laughed out loud at that X-files stuff, thanks, I needed that Very HappyVery Happy Also, I wonder if he hears the soundtracks for Vietnam based war movies and/or the theme music from "The hills have eyes" in his head?

Sorted
DEATH'S LEGION
Posted - 2011.05.15 11:16:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Gnulpie
Yes, CCP did all wrong. EVE population increased from 40.000 to 360.000, EVE is more diverse and richer than ever before. There are more out-of-game activites like Festivals, Lotteries, Books, Contests etc. than ever before.

Yeah, CCP did all wrong and some people know it all better.

Not that CCP did all right, no one does! But saying that they did all wrong is pretty messed up.


Eve was built on a niche market, they then changed the game to ater to the masses of whining ***gots. Eve has gone down hill in quality, became softer and easier; so it appeals to more people. This is why subs have gone up. From a business standpoint its good, from a loyalty to the origional fan base view point its a big "fufufufu ahahahah monies monies monies"

Darin Ahan Parmana
Posted - 2011.05.15 11:17:00 - [24]
 

Posting in "I don't like something about EVE Online so EVE Online MUST be turning into World of Warcraft" thread #98743.

I realize I'm a complete and utter noob since I've only been playing since just before Exodus, so I'm not a bitter, jaded and all-knowing authority myself, but here's a thought:

It's 2011. Most of what you're whining about happened in 2003 and 2004. You're saying PvP in EVE turned to crap about seven years ago and it's been a carebear game since. Yeah, right. Rolling Eyes

Ghoest
Posted - 2011.05.15 11:20:00 - [25]
 

I live less than 50 miles from Home PA.

Oddly enough its not really a redneck town. Not that we dont have some here in PA.

But yes we all have guns.

Shania Fox
Posted - 2011.05.15 11:20:00 - [26]
 

So they give you 5 days, so you come back to post, even though you almost certainly knew things would have not changed that much.

There's a new character creator if that helps Twisted Evil


3 main groups to Eve, PvPers, PvEers and a hybrid of both. CCP are a business they have to try and balance between the groups, so there will always be somethings that will not be popular with 1 or possibly 2 of the groups. Games evolve not always in the ways we like, there are some aspects I don't particularly like but I know others do, so I leave it at that.

CONCORD probably evolved into it current state because of griefing going on in high sec (started in 2005 but this must have been before that), it's usually the behaviour of the players that instigate such a change.

Mnengli Noiliffe
Posted - 2011.05.15 11:22:00 - [27]
 

Imagine for a second that there is no concord, no level 4 missions and therefore no carebears in game (yep there are also 10x less active accounts but let's ignore that for a second). Would you return then?

Did you answer "Yes"?

Well then why don't you return right now, and play in 0.0 which still has lots of players, and no carebears? Just how you like it!

The only reason I see is that you are jealous of empire dwellers that can earn without playing in 0.0.

But is there point in this jealousy? You are not jealous of WoW players are you? Because you don't play WoW. So why are you jealous of high sec dwellers if you don't play there anyway?

So as you see there is no logic in your intent. I believe that it is because the real reason you don't play is that you're bored of the game and hence, no matter what changes would CCP make according to your demands, you would cancel in a month of two anyway, since the any games are just not for you any longer.

Valek Noor
Amarr
Eternal Phoenix Rises
Dark Phoenix Rising.
Posted - 2011.05.15 11:23:00 - [28]
 

some nice points, nice post shame its gone off topic a little...

Would like to add you forgot one very important event.

The ASCN Vs BoB war in which devs were found cheating to win at PVP.........


Dalmont Delantee
Gallente
Shiloh Technologies
Posted - 2011.05.15 11:27:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Darin Ahan Parmana
Posting in "I don't like something about EVE Online so EVE Online MUST be turning into World of Warcraft" thread #98743.

I realize I'm a complete and utter noob since I've only been playing since just before Exodus, so I'm not a bitter, jaded and all-knowing authority myself, but here's a thought:

It's 2011. Most of what you're whining about happened in 2003 and 2004. You're saying PvP in EVE turned to crap about seven years ago and it's been a carebear game since. Yeah, right. Rolling Eyes


Quoted for truth!

Serpents smile
Posted - 2011.05.15 11:42:00 - [30]
 


Hey Rells, question even if it may offend you even more, lol, since you don't PLAY this game sans the 5 day reactivation invites, what makes you such an "expert" on how EVE got "killed for the PvPer"?

You clearly have no idea how things work these days in 0.0. And if anything, it's the player base that are responsible for how thing turn around these days with PvP, Just think of the giant nap fest called 'NC'.

And I wrote 'you clearly have no idea', since you're obviously living in the past. 'When everything was better'. Newsletter for you Rells, EVE evolved. If you don't like it, then please be so kind to silently dissolve out of our game.




Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only