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Lyn Farel
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2011.05.16 11:27:00 - [31]
 

Edited by: Lyn Farel on 16/05/2011 11:27:16
Originally by: Jesmine Kyriel
Originally by: claire xxx
Originally by: Lyn Farel
This does not make any sense.


I know it's difficult for someone, such as yourself, with limited mental capacity to comprehend big words, and you probably stare blankly at your screen when all those big words are formed into sentences and paragraphs, so I'll make it very simple for you.


Dear Miss. xxx, you insult people's intelligence with such.. finesse, that I'm quite impressed. I do not speak for KOTMC nor do I think I ever have to, but let me try and underline what I believe the target for your unwarranted insult meant;

Star Fraction is very fond of insuring that people always know of their anti-governmental ideals and other viewpoints. As such it would appear bizarre to some that you seem willing to slack - for lack of a better term - on these principles by setting I-RED, a dedicated pro-Ishukone and pro-State - a governmented nation, that is - back to neutral.

To some it simply makes no sense to return to 'do not fire upon unless provoked' status when the entity in question clearly don't share your ideals and in fact, hold to ideals that you have stated clearly that you, as an organization, do not like.

Of course, feel free to ignore my words here in favor of more insults or belittlement if you feel so inclined.

Yours,
Jesmine Kyriel,
Colonial Administrator



When one comes out of contructed arguments, ad hominem attacks ensue. I would not bother too much about such things. People acting like this are just making fools of themselves.

Anyway, SF having sided with governemental institutions like the Republic (the TLF) for ages, I am not surprised. I always find interesting the ensuing clunky justifications either.

In any case, I thank you for your support.

Best regards,
Farel.

Salicaz
Caldari
Wolfsbrigade
Posted - 2011.05.16 11:44:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Salicaz
Originally by: Senn Typhos
A band of Caldari expats running from their grievous mistakes calling a ceasefire with a gang of washed-up anarchists and failed revolutionaries. Probably in hopes of gaining military support for the next time they fire at the wrong ship.

Sounds right to me.


They also claim their war against us is to rid areas of piracy, yet their CEO has a security rating of -0.6 as of yesterday. Oh the double standards...


That is a rather strained point to be honest. I believe concord categorize my security rating as rather worse than that and I am the CEO of one of the oldest neutral respecting NRDS entities in New Eden. How did I earn this terrible stain? Shooting -10 hostiles in lowsec in full support of Fraction Rules of Engagement.

Concord is not the supreme arbiter of right and wrong in New Eden.




Well, I could refer to an engagement where we engaged IRED pilots at a planet, seconds later Intaki Liberation Front pilots (who were positve standings) landed with IRED pilots and made a criminal act against WBR pilots and engaged us.

IRED will camp up with Gallente Militia, will actively fly and allow pirate agression in their fleets and their CEO has a sec status which suggests he has done criminal acts also.

IRED are a joke who's morales change daily.

Tecam Hund
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2011.05.16 11:50:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Silas Vitalia

We the readers of this thread attempting to unravel the various conflicting statements on display.



Good to know. I was attempting to measure the extend of your feeling of self-importance. Claiming to speak for perhaps a hundred individuals without their consent is consistent with the notion that you are in a position to dictate to others who their friends or enemies should be based on your limited perception.

Originally by: Silas Vitalia

Not in the slightest. Fractionists are always up-front about their goals to the point of nausea. The misguided intentions of your terrorist group are always quite genuine.

It's just that for some of us who can't be bothered to keep the ever-changing swirls of who is in bed with who these days, the pairing does seem a bit odd.

And no one is truly 'neutral,' dear. Not shooting someone is just a loud a statement as shooting them. Not shooting someone you've shot, often, in the past, is such a statement.



So you do not think that our intentions need to be proven genuine now? I think you just solved your own problem.

You claim that you can not be bothered yet you persist with fake surprise and confusion.

And believe me, as a member of the Star Fraction, I know all about the difficulty with which many struggle to grasp concept of neutrality on diplomatic level. It is precisely the reason Star Fraction has only few true allies. Your feeling that our "pairing" with I-RED is "odd" stems directly from your failure to grasp the concept.

Mammal Tafren
Gallente
Intaki Liberation Front
Intaki Prosperity Initiative
Posted - 2011.05.16 12:55:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Salicaz
Well, I could refer to an engagement where we engaged IRED pilots at a planet, seconds later Intaki Liberation Front pilots (who were positve standings) landed with IRED pilots and made a criminal act against WBR pilots and engaged us.


I'm not sure I see the relevance of this to your argument, but I will address the facts of your post.

While we may have been blue to you, you were certainly not blue to us. No contact had been made by Wolfsbrigade diplomats to the Intaki Liberation Front prior to this incident. You attacked allies of ours (Intaki Security and Intelligence) and legal agents of the Intaki Assembly. We intervened to defend our friends and allies, and I'm sure you would.

This being said, we were subsequently contacted by one of your superiors and the whole mess was ironed out. Trotting it out again does not serve your aims. Nor, as I advised your diplomat, does continued warring with Ishukone-Raata. That will only serve to weaken the State Protectorate and further the cause of your enemies.

Not that I care, overmuch. Just a thought.

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2011.05.16 13:09:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Salicaz

Well, I could refer to an engagement where we engaged IRED pilots at a planet, seconds later Intaki Liberation Front pilots (who were positve standings) landed with IRED pilots and made a criminal act against WBR pilots and engaged us. IRED will camp up with Gallente Militia, will actively fly and allow pirate agression in their fleets and their CEO has a sec status which suggests he has done criminal acts also. IRED are a joke who's morales change daily.


Well monsieur Salicaz, I can certainly understand your annoyance at being engaged by blues. I can tell you from our perspective when that happens the Free Captains take an extremely poor view of it and make sure the friendship betrayal is dealt with accordingly in space. But beyond that, I think it is a mistake to consider that all acts of aggression that occur in lowsec are "piratical" just because GCC and gate fire is triggered. It often means that declared reds are ignoring Concord rules to pursue their enemies. I only raise the point because I think the term "pirate" is often misused and becomes quite devalued when applied to every act of aggression in the face of concord restrictions in lowsec.

As for I-RED's own reputation. What can I say really. Star Fraction has had quite a checkered history but with their stepping away from the extreme imperialist folly of Amarrian bloc interests and now apparent return to Ishukone liberalist radicalism at the forefront we have to recognize the change of focus from open-minds prevailing in their organization.

But then you will appreciate monsieur Salicaz with respect, we have always been foes of the State Protectorate and we do consider Tibus Heth an appalling crypto-fascist dictator who placed your people very badly in hock to Amarrian Imperialism.

As such our views will obviously differ.


Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2011.05.16 14:01:00 - [36]
 

Edited by: Jade Constantine on 16/05/2011 14:07:06


Originally by: Jesmine Kyriel

Star Fraction is very fond of insuring that people always know of their anti-governmental ideals and other viewpoints. As such it would appear bizarre to some that you seem willing to slack - for lack of a better term - on these principles by setting I-RED, a dedicated pro-Ishukone and pro-State - a governmented nation, that is - back to neutral.


Miss Kyriel. One of the things you doubtless detect is a level of shall we say impatience on the part of Free Captain's listening to the usual background radiation of our enemies.

As you know well Lyn Farel is a member of the Knights of the Merciful Crown - a pro Amarrian 24th Crusade militant corporation that actively fights to ensure the supression of Matari rights and freedoms in the conquered territories. As such it is hardly likely we'd consider any comment from this source as being genuinely independent and unladen with rhetorically-manipulative payload.

However. I will pay you the respect of suggesting you look a little deeper into the role that Ishukone corporation have played in the development of capsuleer technology and progressive scientific development in this star cluster. They are very far from your stereotypical statist tyranny barking platitudes and snapping down genuflections to the prevailing order of the Hethite state.

Indeed Star Fraction first came into conflict with I-RED on our belief that they were betraying the liberal/radicalist potential of Ishukone by cooperating with hardline Amarrian imperialists and insulting the contributions made by Otro Gariushi and his family.

So what does it say for the quality of our intellectualism and indeed the honesty of our diplomacy if we do not recognise the progressive changes in the status of a foe and realize that the time has come to talk and persuade rather than make war and destroy?

And yes, we all understand quite well that its quite scary for our foes to see us making progressive diplomatic gestures and reaching agreements with those we fought in the past. After all, the simple categorization of "those anarchists they hate everyone" is a useful fiction for hardliners to frighten their children but it never has and never will be remotely true.

Originally by: Jesmine Kyriel
To some it simply makes no sense to return to 'do not fire upon unless provoked' status when the entity in question clearly don't share your ideals and in fact, hold to ideals that you have stated clearly that you, as an organization, do not like.


I think you are quite mistaken on this judgement perhaps from a genuine misunderstanding of the nature of Ishukone and the Fraction itself. I will say here and now that there are ideals in common. There is a reason the Fraction pays great interest to the memorial events and we respect the deeds of Otro Gariushi. I would suggest you read the transcript of the speech I delivered yesterday evening at the memorial which will prove quite revealing if approached with a genuinely open mind.

Originally by: Jesmine Kyriel
Of course, feel free to ignore my words here in favor of more insults or belittlement if you feel so inclined.


Oh come now. The summit is not a place for a thin skin. I have said nothing in the least part insulting to you and indeed treat your questions and involvement in this debate with great respect.

All I ask in return is you resist the urge to fall into the traditonal patterns of dishonest debating prefered by our enclosurist foes and approach the discussion with honesty and an open mind.


Andreus Ixiris
Gallente
Mixed Metaphor
Posted - 2011.05.16 14:08:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Jade Constantine
Well monsieur Salicaz, I can certainly understand your annoyance at being engaged by blues.


Nothing of the sort happened. W-BR are simply learning that just because you have someone set blue, it doesn't mean that someone has you set blue.

Silas Vitalia
Khanid Provincial Vanguard
Vanguard Imperium
Posted - 2011.05.16 15:25:00 - [38]
 

Fair enough, I can possibly see a -few- areas of mutual overlap here. I will tack slightly now and take another approach:

The Caldari as a people are collectivist. The individual serves the collective good. Individual identity is shunned in favor of group identity. Support your department, support your corporation, support your State. Overwhelming strength through unity.

This is one of the reasons we Amarr get along so well with our Caldari brethren, and so poorly with the Gallente and Matari; we both understand and desire to see our successes as a larger whole, and petty individual needs/wants/desires pale in service to those of our nation.

Your group, Jade, are individualists. Personal freedom. Personal liberty. The individual as the arbiter of choice and path in life.

This seems an odd marriage. So either IRED are becoming less Caldari, or the Fraction are becoming less Anarchist.


Nausea
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.05.16 15:35:00 - [39]
 

Ah. Well, to chime in with another 'peanut gallery' comment I suppose...

Two sides, having long thrown spears and stones at each other, have stopped fighting long enough to look puzzled, and ask each other, "Why are we fighting again?".

The original-original reasons for direct conflict seem to be nonexistent, so it makes sense to re-evaluate why exactly you're fighting them in the first place.

There are stances one can take towards organisations beyond all-guns-blazing, and hand-in-hand skipping down the lane.

Butler Starbuckington
Posted - 2011.05.16 15:55:00 - [40]
 

Edited by: Butler Starbuckington on 16/05/2011 15:55:25
ergh did it

Cheiftan
Minmatar
Shinryaku
Posted - 2011.05.16 15:58:00 - [41]
 

Quote:
This seems an odd marriage. So either IRED are becoming less Caldari, or the Fraction are becoming less Anarchist

I could pipe up here and add the third option, maybe we have agreed to disagree on the finer points of life in New Eden, but have realised with recent changes, while we cant always agree, we find no reason to continue an agressive stance.

Besides despite the glaring disparity here we both suport free trade, equality and freedom. maybe it is enough to recognise what we have in common than shoot eachother for our diffrences.

P.S.

I Hate that stupid butler

Kohiko Sun
Caldari
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
Posted - 2011.05.16 16:19:00 - [42]
 

Why are so many foreigners here trying to put their view of Caldari or Ishukone forward as the one true example? Please allow us to define ourselves.

Originally by: Jade Constantine
Ishukone liberalist radicalism
Radicalism? My family has served Ishukone for generations in some form or another; you will find they might not be fond of being mislabeled as radicals.

Originally by: Silas Vitalia
Support your department, support your corporation, support your State. Overwhelming strength through unity. [...] The individual as the arbiter of choice and path in life.
These are not mutually exclusive concepts. One can choose to be selfless for the whole without shunning the individual.


Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2011.05.16 16:29:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Kohiko Sun
Why are so many foreigners here trying to put their view of Caldari or Ishukone forward as the one true example? Please allow us to define ourselves.


Welcome to the world of post-national capsuleer debate. You are welcome to an opinion. But your opinion has no greater value than any other and I for one consider your race irrelevant.

Kohiko Sun
Caldari
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
Posted - 2011.05.16 16:34:00 - [44]
 

I do not recall saying my opinion weighed more than any other's. I do recall wondering why you are fond of placing dubious labels on things to make you happy.


John Revenent
Caldari
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
Posted - 2011.05.16 16:47:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Salicaz
Well, I could refer to an engagement where we engaged IRED pilots at a planet, seconds later Intaki Liberation Front pilots (who were positve standings) landed with IRED pilots and made a criminal act against WBR pilots and engaged us.

IRED will camp up with Gallente Militia, will actively fly and allow pirate agression in their fleets and their CEO has a sec status which suggests he has done criminal acts also.

IRED are a joke who's morales change daily.



To aid in your understanding..

Ishukone-Raata ROE:

-5 Standing KOS (Kill on Sight for acts of piracy outside State boarders, or small hostile organizations / Will GCC)
-10 Standing KOS (Kill on Sight for acts of Piracy inside State boarders, or larger hostile organizations / Will GCC)
-5 - -10 Security Status KOS (Blues not applicable)

Ishukone-Raata does not engage neutrals unless fired upon or they have -5 to -10 Sec Rate.

Ishukone-Raata does not engage blues unless fired upon. (Blues witnessed commiting acts of piracy are delt with by Ishukone-Raata's diplomatic core.)

Ishukone-Raata is NBSI in the following Regions: Intaki Syndicate / Cloud Ring / Outer Ring / Geminate. (This is a step to ensure the safety of our pilots in daily operations.)

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2011.05.16 16:48:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Kohiko Sun
I do not recall saying my opinion weighed more than any other's.


Then I misunderstood your interjection for which I certainly apologize.

Kohiko Sun
Caldari
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
Posted - 2011.05.16 17:31:00 - [47]
 

I humbly accept, but there is no need for such apology. It has sadly become more of a delightful surprise when questions do not draw instinctive combativeness. In truth, it is something I have become almost accustomed to finding among pilots.


Lyn Farel
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2011.05.16 17:56:00 - [48]
 

Edited by: Lyn Farel on 16/05/2011 17:57:06
[edited for syntax]
Originally by: Jade Constantine


As you know well Lyn Farel is a member of the Knights of the Merciful Crown - a pro Amarrian 24th Crusade militant corporation that actively fights to ensure the supression of Matari rights and freedoms in the conquered territories. As such it is hardly likely we'd consider any comment from this source as being genuinely independent and unladen with rhetorically-manipulative payload.



Biaised and blatant lies. You are obviously a very confused person. Oversimplifying things and resorting at every time to poor demagogic rhetorics that are not even the slighiest true will lead you nowhere, and is making your argument irrelevant.

Silas Vitalia
Khanid Provincial Vanguard
Vanguard Imperium
Posted - 2011.05.16 18:05:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Jade Constantine

...actively fights to ensure the supression of Matari rights and freedoms in the conquered territories.



You say that as if it were a bad thing, dear.




Tetsu Nakahama
Girochin Sha
Posted - 2011.05.16 18:12:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Lyn Farel

Originally by: Jade Constantine


As you know well Lyn Farel is a member of the Knights of the Merciful Crown - a pro Amarrian 24th Crusade militant corporation that actively fights to ensure the supression of Matari rights and freedoms in the conquered territories. As such it is hardly likely we'd consider any comment from this source as being genuinely independent and unladen with rhetorically-manipulative payload.



Biaised and blatant lies. You are obviously a very confused person. Oversimplifying things and resorting at every time to poor demagogic rhetorics that are not even the slighiest true will lead you nowhere, and is making your argument irrelevant.


Pilot Farel,

I have been following this discussion with interest but I do not understand your latest post. When I read it, I saw you had highlighted a statement and then said that it was blatant lies. I assumed this meant that your corp is not pro-Amarr or in the 24th Imperial Crusade.

But having checked, I see your corp is in the 24th Imperial Crusade. Your own CEO holds the rank of Divine Commodore in the Crusade. I believe this makes your corporation pro-Amarr.

As to the aims of the crusade, it is obvious to anyone that it fights to enact Imperial policy in the contested Minmatar systems and this includes the suppression of the Minmatar living there.

I am left with the impression that you have just decided to call your opponent a liar in the hope no-one would do some basic research and the mud would stick.

This does not seem to fit with your complaints about 'ad hominem' remarks.

John Revenent
Caldari
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
Posted - 2011.05.16 18:13:00 - [51]
 

I continue to hear the words "pairing" and "aligning".. We are not working alongside Star Fraction in any capacity, nor do we plan to. This agreement is a very simple one that some of you are finding it hard to understand, we have used diplomatic means to come to an arrangement to ensure we do not continue needless hostilities. If either side breaks the agreement such hostilities will most likely continue.

Take it the way you wish, but I see no need to justify our standings to low standing entities. If our allies (Entities with +5 or greater standings) have a issue with such an agreement we suggest they contact a Blake Rathen, then we will take it under consideration.


Andreus Ixiris
Gallente
Mixed Metaphor
Posted - 2011.05.16 18:26:00 - [52]
 

Edited by: Andreus Ixiris on 16/05/2011 18:26:26
By the way, I was thinking that now we've made it abundantly clear we don't have, and never had the Amarrian sympathies you were implying we did, you don't really have any reason for having us red anymore, either.

I mean, I could make a public statement to the effect that I have no sympathy with the Amarr Empire, but I can't shake the feeling it might be a touch... redundant.

Sinjin Mokk
Stillwater Corporation
Posted - 2011.05.16 18:35:00 - [53]
 

Taisho Revenant,

If you do not take a stand against terrorist organizations like Star Fraction, then you aid and abet them by default. Given your recent "friendships" your enabling of the anarchists is not surprising.

I will confirm that Andreus has no popular standing with any members of the Amarr Bloc to the best of my knowledge. You kids play nice and keep to your side of the sandbox.


Nausea
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.05.16 19:01:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Andreus Ixiris


I mean, I could make a public statement to the effect that I have no sympathy with the Amarr Empire, but I can't shake the feeling it might be a touch... redundant.




You know, i've been around a while, albeit more just watching and being amused than actually contributing, and i've never actually heard you say a good word about those pilots who happily place them firmly in Camp Amarr.

Like, not once. Ever.

Not even for a bet.

John Revenent
Caldari
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
Posted - 2011.05.16 21:22:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Sinjin Mokk
Taisho Revenant,

If you do not take a stand against terrorist organizations like Star Fraction, then you aid and abet them by default. Given your recent "friendships" your enabling of the anarchists is not surprising.



Ishukone-Raata took our stand alongside the Amarr for years. We stood alongside them, and in return were continued to be disrespected, and judged for our actions outside your own borders.

Our recent standing changes have little to do with friendship. Profit maybe, removing despicable pirates/corruption from our State very much so..

Sophie Starsparrow
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2011.05.17 00:02:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Jade Constantine
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

For our part the Free Captains of the Star Fraction recognize that political alignments change and past animosity however rightfully declared must sometimes be revised in the light of new understandings and fresh perspectives.

As executor Revenant correctly indicates, the source of hostilities between Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive and the Star Fraction may be laid fully at the door of CVA-era standings enclosurism in Providence and while we certainly regret little of past decisions in this matter, we would be unwise to forgo the wisdom of diplomatic and commercial progression where matters of confrontation are voided by the natural evolution of public events.

In the last year following our assassination of Executor Revenent at Malkalen in demonstration of our discontent with Ishuk-Raata positions and policies regarding CVA slavery in Providence, many changes have come and passed.

Ishuk-Raata have learned for themselves firsthand the treachery of Imperialist Amarrian crusaders and taken progressive steps to free themselves from the yolk of memetic serfdom enforced on the “holders” of that benighted region and further asserted more general principles of sovereign individualist separation from cloying nationalist sentiment across New Eden.

The Star Fraction movement is and always will be an active and vigorous advocate of change and individual freedom but it is wise to understand that not all change needs come at the barrel of a gun. Sometimes persuasion, influence, commerce and simple conversation can yield great rewards and mutually-profitable outcomes. A revolutionary must be a persuader as well as a fighter.

So today I will salute an Ishuk-Raata that has severed its bonds to slavery and imperialism, that has seen itself rise past tawdry nationalism to consider itself a strong independent sovereign entity in its own right, free to make its own decisions and seek prosperity amongst the stars.

It is my pleasure to report that the open council of the Free Captains voted in majority to restore neutral standings to Ishuk-Raata Enforcement directive and jointly affirm the re-establishment of this status by formal public announcement.

It is our hope that guided by the example of the great Otro Gariushi, Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive will take up the cause of freedom and prosperity and prove themselves an influential and powerful foe to those who would deny the dignity of independence and liberation to all the peoples of New Eden.

Today the Fraction stands with hands outstretched to make peace, with eyes turned upward to a brighter future, with our hearts open and mind resolved on the trials and challenges to come.


So, Sophie was right. Interesting.

Lyn Farel
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2011.05.17 10:41:00 - [57]
 

Edited by: Lyn Farel on 17/05/2011 10:41:44
Originally by: Tetsu Nakahama
Originally by: Lyn Farel

Originally by: Jade Constantine


As you know well Lyn Farel is a member of the Knights of the Merciful Crown - a pro Amarrian 24th Crusade militant corporation that actively fights to ensure the supression of Matari rights and freedoms in the conquered territories. As such it is hardly likely we'd consider any comment from this source as being genuinely independent and unladen with rhetorically-manipulative payload.



Biaised and blatant lies. You are obviously a very confused person. Oversimplifying things and resorting at every time to poor demagogic rhetorics that are not even the slighiest true will lead you nowhere, and is making your argument irrelevant.


Pilot Farel,

I have been following this discussion with interest but I do not understand your latest post. When I read it, I saw you had highlighted a statement and then said that it was blatant lies. I assumed this meant that your corp is not pro-Amarr or in the 24th Imperial Crusade.

But having checked, I see your corp is in the 24th Imperial Crusade. Your own CEO holds the rank of Divine Commodore in the Crusade. I believe this makes your corporation pro-Amarr.

As to the aims of the crusade, it is obvious to anyone that it fights to enact Imperial policy in the contested Minmatar systems and this includes the suppression of the Minmatar living there.

I am left with the impression that you have just decided to call your opponent a liar in the hope no-one would do some basic research and the mud would stick.

This does not seem to fit with your complaints about 'ad hominem' remarks.



Captain Nakahama,

You may not have done the basic research you are talking about. There is nothing contradictory in my statement. Being pro-amarr is not the same thing than being pro (orthodox) Reclaiming. I myself hold the Divine Commodore rank. A lot of us do. Our corporation is centered around the defence of the imperial systems. We are not taking part in the conquest of enemy territories, merely defending our own.

As to the aims of the TLF, it is obvious to anyone that it fights to enact republican policy in the contested Amarr systems and this includes the suppression of the Amarr living there : Like your similar statement, this one is painted in black and white, and I do not support it.

And yes, this had nothing to do with ad-hominem attacks coming from the first SF pilot as I was answering to Jade Constantine statement (that had nothing to do with ad hominem attacks).

Sinjin Mokk
Stillwater Corporation
Posted - 2011.05.17 11:19:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: John Revenent

Ishukone-Raata took our stand alongside the Amarr for years. We stood alongside them, and in return were continued to be disrespected, and judged for our actions outside your own borders.

Our recent standing changes have little to do with friendship. Profit maybe, removing despicable pirates/corruption from our State very much so..


How said that it has come to this.

It is true that you enjoyed a mutually beneficial relationship with those of us who are loyal to the Empire. But disrespect? I think not. You know full well that you were a valued ally of the Kingdom if nothing else. We are all judged of our actions in the court of public opinion. It has only gone against you recently by your sometimes inexplicable actions.

Your recent actions obviously have little to do with "profit." If all you were interested in was ISK, you would have stood firm with us.

And you'll forgive me I hope for saying so, but I don't see how being in league with despicable pirates and corrupt federalists helps to remove them from the State.

You walk in darkness among decievers. I pray you will find your way out.


John Revenent
Caldari
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
Posted - 2011.05.17 12:04:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Sinjin Mokk


How said that it has come to this.

It is true that you enjoyed a mutually beneficial relationship with those of us who are loyal to the Empire. But disrespect? I think not. You know full well that you were a valued ally of the Kingdom if nothing else. We are all judged of our actions in the court of public opinion. It has only gone against you recently by your sometimes inexplicable actions.


There was more then just one group making threats, attempting to force who we and who we cannot conduct business with. This lead to the reset of the entire Amarrian Bloc.

Originally by: Sinjin Mokk

Your recent actions obviously have little to do with "profit." If all you were interested in was ISK, you would have stood firm with us.


We came to the conclusion that we were done being play things.

Originally by: Sinjin Mokk

And you'll forgive me I hope for saying so, but I don't see how being in league with despicable pirates and corrupt federalists helps to remove them from the State.

You walk in darkness among decievers. I pray you will find your way out.



Stop being so narrow-minded it might enlighten you, perhaps even help you with your diplomatic skill.

As for walking amongst deceivers.. Apparently with some of my past dealings over the years with the Amarr I have the ability to navigate around them.

Silas Vitalia
Khanid Provincial Vanguard
Vanguard Imperium
Posted - 2011.05.17 14:15:00 - [60]
 

Let's not be too harsh on them my Brothers and Sisters; don't forget that when they were our friends they received just as much grief for that relationship.....of course this was before their relationship with the federation mercenaries, before their relationship with various scoundrels, before their friendship with the Star Fraction...Let's check back in a few weeks to see if they've struck up any deals with Kuvakei, Omir, and the rest?



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