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blankseplocked Removal of 'X Connections' skills on Sisi
 
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IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69
The Seal Cub Clubbing Club.
Posted - 2011.05.11 07:50:00 - [1]
 

Why are you doing this CCP? I really don't understand the logic

Firstly this game needs more skills to train, when people run out of things to train they start getting bored, it especially needs charisma skills as at the moment there are so few of these that are useful.

Secondly LP is one of, if not the biggest ISK sink in game, and the game needs more sinks, not less. Not only do these skill produce more LP (likely removing more ISK) they also cost 10m ISK from the shop, so 2-3 skills per char is helping to remove quite a bit more ISK from the game.

If this is about balancing missions/high sec tweak the default LP payments + reward, nerf mission loot and nerf rat bounties. If this is some kind of high sec nerf to balance with the recent 0.0 nerf can you at least give the low sec people something back. The people hit hardest by this will be in low sec, Level 5 and FW missions are all about LP and this will hurt us most, please CCP don't make this a blanket nerf to all LP, low sec is dire enough as it is.

For anyone saying this is trivial its a 40% drop in LP with skills at 4.

Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
Posted - 2011.05.11 08:03:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 11/05/2011 08:04:38
Originally by: IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69
Why are you doing this CCP? I really don't understand the logic

Firstly this game needs more skills to train, when people run out of things to train they start getting bored, it especially needs charisma skills as at the moment there are so few of these that are useful.

Secondly LP is one of, if not the biggest ISK sink in game, and the game needs more sinks, not less. Not only do these skill produce more LP (likely removing more ISK) they also cost 10m ISK from the shop, so 2-3 skills per char is helping to remove quite a bit more ISK from the game.

If this is about balancing missions/high sec tweak the default LP payments + reward, nerf mission loot and nerf rat bounties. If this is some kind of high sec nerf to balance with the recent 0.0 nerf can you at least give the low sec people something back. The people hit hardest by this will be in low sec, Level 5 and FW missions are all about LP and this will hurt us most, please CCP don't make this a blanket nerf to all LP, low sec is dire enough as it is.

For anyone saying this is trivial its a 40% drop in LP with skills at 4.

Ehm .. with no more agents having types like command, internal security and such but only hauling, combat and mining left those social skills have no use anymore.

I hope/expect/bet CCP will increase the mission rewards accordingly.

And not sure if you're really serious about "this game needs more skills to train, when people run out of things to train they start getting bored", I never met anyone who's playing EVE for 22 years yet. In fact I never met anyone at allwho didn't have anything to train left.

Personally I think a little LP reimbursement would be great. After all SP is the only bottleneck in EVE.

IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69
The Seal Cub Clubbing Club.
Posted - 2011.05.11 08:08:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69 on 11/05/2011 08:08:42
Yes I'm serious, when people start seeing 40 days to get another 2% they do start getting bored, with a greater range of skills people see a better return on their time and smaller more attainable goals.

I had forgotten when they messed around with the mission system that agent types were removed, not quite sure why this happened either tbh, oh well.

Also getting SP refunded for this is a joke, the cost of the skills is the LP + ISK cost, they barely take 1 day to train

Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
Posted - 2011.05.11 08:32:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 11/05/2011 08:32:19
Originally by: IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69
Yes I'm serious, when people start seeing 40 days to get another 2% they do start getting bored, with a greater range of skills people see a better return on their time and smaller more attainable goals.

Oh well we have extra PI skills now .. and there's still a few months of leadership stuff.
Who knows what extra social skills Incarna wil bring .. ?

And btw i don't think 40 days to get another 2% will be solved by more skills. It's still 40 days for 2%. Sometimes I train skills like that for 5 days, then switch to another skilll, then another 5 days .. having even more skills to train doesn't ease the pain for me, so to speak ...

Xtreem
Gallente
The Collective
White Noise.
Posted - 2011.05.11 08:35:00 - [5]
 

I would be happy for them to give me back the SP i wasted on them, i think i have them all to lvl5, so the extra sp could be better used elsewhere.

Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
Posted - 2011.05.11 08:36:00 - [6]
 

Is there any post about this removal somewhere?

Sarmatiko
Posted - 2011.05.11 08:38:00 - [7]
 

I wonder why still there is no bounty nerf? It looks more logical and useful to the game than this mess with agents.
Six days till next "little things" patch, still no devblog. Now it really looks like "You want changes? Take this "change" and gtfo to 0.0; Wait there until we fix nullsec in distant future"

RaTTuS
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2011.05.11 09:04:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Chribba
Is there any post about this removal somewhere?

apart from here no.

and the Test forum would of been the best place for this, as we know that everything that appears on Sisi always makes it into TQ Rolling Eyes

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2011.05.11 09:05:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Jennifer Starling
Ehm .. with no more agents having types like command, internal security and such but only hauling, combat and mining left those social skills have no use anymore.

I hope/expect/bet CCP will increase the mission rewards accordingly.

And not sure if you're really serious about "this game needs more skills to train, when people run out of things to train they start getting bored", I never met anyone who's playing EVE for 22 years yet. In fact I never met anyone at allwho didn't have anything to train left.

Personally I think a little LP reimbursement would be great. After all SP is the only bottleneck in EVE.


actually, the only social skill that will be irrelevant would be negotiation since they intend to make agent quality dynamic and not static.

dunno why connections skills would be removed since altho the agents will dish out one type of mission only, instead of a mixture, the agent sections could remain the same.

Erik CoolBreeze
Amarr
Posted - 2011.05.11 09:08:00 - [10]
 

getting ready to train them all to 5 if they do plan to remove them Smile

Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
Posted - 2011.05.11 09:08:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Chribba
Is there any post about this removal somewhere?

Not about the removal, there was a blog around the fanfest about this though but it was mainly about the removal of all the agent types, the consequence of which of course is that the "X connections" social skills have no use anymore.

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2011.05.11 15:16:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Jennifer Starling
Originally by: Chribba
Is there any post about this removal somewhere?

Not about the removal, there was a blog around the fanfest about this though but it was mainly about the removal of all the agent types, the consequence of which of course is that the "X connections" social skills have no use anymore.

I think, as I said above, it was more about the removal of the mixing of mission types, and not agent sections proper, and the removal of static quality, replaced by a dynamic quality mechanism, thus rendering the "negotiation" skill useless, and not the "X connections" ones.

Drykor
Minmatar
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2011.05.11 15:19:00 - [13]
 

Eep, those were kinda expensive. Oh well.

Xtreem
Gallente
The Collective
White Noise.
Posted - 2011.05.11 15:32:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Drykor
Eep, those were kinda expensive. Oh well.


If they were removed I am sure CCP would compensate.

Persikas
Posted - 2011.05.11 16:00:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Xtreem
Originally by: Drykor
Eep, those were kinda expensive. Oh well.


If they were removed I am sure CCP would compensate.


I hope they do...

ivar R'dhak
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.05.11 16:12:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: ivar R''dhak on 11/05/2011 16:13:41
Originally by: Grimpak


actually, the only social skill that will be irrelevant would be negotiation since they intend to make agent quality dynamic and not static.
No. There will NOT be any type of dynamic quality mechanic. That was a misunderstanding/miscommunication.

AFAIK on Sisi all LP skills are removed, the core ones not(I think). So this looks like a LP nerf, for now.
Some early feedback on Agent/Quality/Division changes
Also:in-before-move-2-missions

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2011.05.11 23:35:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: ivar R'dhak
Edited by: ivar R''dhak on 11/05/2011 16:13:41
Originally by: Grimpak


actually, the only social skill that will be irrelevant would be negotiation since they intend to make agent quality dynamic and not static.
No. There will NOT be any type of dynamic quality mechanic. That was a misunderstanding/miscommunication.

AFAIK on Sisi all LP skills are removed, the core ones not(I think). So this looks like a LP nerf, for now.
Some early feedback on Agent/Quality/Division changes
Also:in-before-move-2-missions
well **** me, that's worse than I thought.

CCP will simply kill Gicodel with that.



on the plus side, Sister probes and launchers will rise in price by a ****ton

Clolo
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Squad.
Posted - 2011.05.11 23:55:00 - [18]
 

The tears will be delicious on this one. Good move CCP. Now please nerf mission bounties as well. The risk vs reward is to highly in high secs favor.

tla s'hpyt
Posted - 2011.05.12 09:38:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Clolo
The tears will be delicious on this one. Good move CCP. Now please nerf mission bounties as well. The risk vs reward is to highly in high secs favor.


The tears will mostly be from lvl 5 mission runners and FW mission runners. Those both rely heavily on LP for their rewards.

ah well it seems CCP are trying their very hardest to nerf 0.0 and low sec isk income down to the same as lvl 4's then we can all be even regardless of where we play.

Miso Hawnee
Posted - 2011.05.12 11:34:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: tla s'hpyt
Originally by: Clolo
The tears will be delicious on this one. Good move CCP. Now please nerf mission bounties as well. The risk vs reward is to highly in high secs favor.


The tears will mostly be from lvl 5 mission runners and FW mission runners. Those both rely heavily on LP for their rewards.

ah well it seems CCP are trying their very hardest to nerf 0.0 and low sec isk income down to the same as lvl 4's then we can all be even regardless of where we play.


Level 4 missions have been the best source of income for a very long time. There are no threats in empire, nothing to disrupt grind sessions. Sure you can potentially make more in null, but thats assuming that nothing hostile inturrupts your grind. Due to the safety empire, you can also use things like marauders and pimp fits to make it even more profitable. You can do the same in null, but it really puts a dent in profits when you 2 billion isk golem gets BLOPS dropped.

Jacob Holland
Gallente
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
Posted - 2011.05.13 08:18:00 - [21]
 

The elimination of Charisma based skills, particularly where you can't use an alt to substitute (if you need to expand your corp you can easily use a specialised alt, similarly with trade and even more so with Leadership (simply because you need a minimum of two characters to gain the benefits of leadership skills and mods)) makes Charisma seem even more of a dump stat.

From the discussion I saw at FanFest I was under the impression that the existing divisions would remain but that they would become more predictable (Security agents would remain Security but they would offer 100% combat missions) rather than eliminating most of them as this change seems to promise... and I would rather that was how they did it, not least because it still makes these galactic scale mega-corporations feel like corporations rather than objects of instanced content.

Of course the old agent tables have been wrong (at least in my experience) since the courier mission nerf (2006? 2007?) and I applaud a change which will remove it from so many bios but I'd much rather retain the division structure with a different meaning* or reassign the skills than lose them entirely.

*eg: Command give 100% encounter but with a higher proportion of missions like Enemies Abound, missions against the four Empire factions, Internal Security also give 100% encounter but with a higher proportion of Mercenary missions like Stop the Thief and Silence the Informant, Storage give 100% courier but favour short trips with large volume cargos while Distribution (who also give 100% courier) favour long trips with smaller ones.

Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
Posted - 2011.05.13 08:56:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Jacob Holland
The elimination of Charisma based skills, particularly where you can't use an alt to substitute (if you need to expand your corp you can easily use a specialised alt, similarly with trade and even more so with Leadership (simply because you need a minimum of two characters to gain the benefits of leadership skills and mods)) makes Charisma seem even more of a dump stat.


You should read the Some early feedback on Agent/Quality/Division changes thread on the test feedback forum.
The X connection skills will be replaced with 3 rank 2 skill that have the same effect.

There was also a good idea to get a seperate "warfare" division that only gives faction missions.

My main gripe with the new system is that a lot of divisions that had a majority of combat missions now will be 100% couriers. Corporations like Vherokior tribe or Royal Amarr Institute will only have L4 courier agents, which will make them far less attractive than they used to be.


 

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