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Evelgrivion
Gunpoint Diplomacy
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:08:00 - [211]
 

First time I've smiled with excitement for the changes being brought into the game in ages. Very Happy

ArmyOfMe
Hysera.
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:08:00 - [212]
 

JB MAP

This show why jb's had to be nerfed tbfh

Sealiah
Minmatar
Coffee Lovers Brewing Club
Care Factor
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:08:00 - [213]
 

Well, it'd be ok if there was also:

A: JBs would be visible on entry to system on the overview.

and

B: The JFs wouldn't lose the capability to jump threw them... This is sick, if you create an exception for the black ops, why not for the JFs? I don't own a JF, but it's just plain stupid to create different categories.

and

C: Make dreads jump as far as carriers -> the total jump distance limit

Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:08:00 - [214]
 

Edited by: Marlona Sky on 10/05/2011 19:33:34
http://www.jlh-design.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/simpsons_nelson_haha3.jpg

Extremely good changes CCP. Down with static null sec and those who rely on jump bridges for every single aspect of existing in null.

Time to use some :effort: guys when it comes to force projection and logistics. I know it will be impossible for some of you and high sec will welcome you with open arms. For those who rage quit the game, can I have your stuff?

phalanx III
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:08:00 - [215]
 

Y'all mad NC?

SavageBastard
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:09:00 - [216]
 

Stoffer man, why are you guys constantly breaking things before you plan on fixing them? One of the very few advantages of living in 0.0 and fighting to maintain control of space is bridges. The only other advantage at the moment (particularly now that you've nerfed anoms) is building supercaps. So your plan is to make living in 0.0 significantly harder and then perhaps sometime in the future making it better? Maybe you could roll out a JB nerf as part of an overall reworking package? Doesn't that make a little more sense? Especially considering CCP's track record of getting around to things "eventually?"

Cassius Longinus
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:09:00 - [217]
 

Should have been two per constellation, but up the ranges. Or alternatively move bridges/beacons off of POSses so they could be more normally interdicted. Still, better than nothing.


WisdomPanda
Goatriders Horde
The Scapegoats
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:09:00 - [218]
 

Originally by: Alissa Solette
Originally by: Prof Fail
Edited by: Prof Fail on 10/05/2011 18:18:52
CCP...how can you build a jb network with just 1 jb per system?

Thats really the dumbest idea I ever heard. It will be heaven for cloaking gatecampers and 0.0 Traffic will be impossible.


SHOCKER: when I started out in 0.0 there were neither JBs nor JFs nor titan bridges and people had like 1 carrier per corp to move stuff around.

Yes, it was more work (for logistics guys/carebears)
Yes, it was riskier (for everyone)
but also
Yes, PVP was a lot more commonplace (especially non boring non sov blob battles such as disrupting supply lines etc. which is currently very difficult due to super-safe and super-fast travel nearly for free)

Sure, if your only concern is how you can maximize your ratting earnings (or those of your bots) and reduce the risk then I can see how you'd find this bad. If you actually play the fun part of game on the other hand then you should be rejoicing.


You tried hard, but here is where you failed, bolded for your reading pleasure.

The problem is, we are already way past the time where these changes are viable, or even level handed. Anyone who has a primarily capital driven force (aka, PL) will rightfully so laugh at these changes. Heck, I'm 100% nub and I still have the capital resources to mostly avoid these effects.
(So why the hate? A change for changes sake =/= a good change, time better spent else where, it will waste more time in logistics, less time for pewpew, etc. take your pick.)

You honestly think this will create more "small" PvP? Because I'm sure you all know how much the power blocks stick to 10man gangs, right? As DRF/PL proved the other day, why use just a tengu fleet when you can drop titans as well!
(Comes back to that common thread; reducing risk. Players will ALWAYS do it, and nothing CCP does will change our natural instincts to be safe.)

This was a great change, like 1 year after JB's were introduced. Now, not so much.

Purrp Ledone
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:09:00 - [219]
 

Quote:
We will then start implementing changes that will hopefully end up making 0.0 a better place to live than it is today. This particular area of space should offer a lot more opportunities than it does today, and that’s what we’ll put in. Good things will come


Bwahahahahahahahaha! Ahhhhh, that's... that's just... that's rich, CCP... hahahahaha... I needed a good laugh. Oh man, that's good. I don't know how you come up with this stuff.

You're off to a great start, keep it up!

"Good things will come"... I can't stop laughing.

Major Stallion
The Money Shot Inc.
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:09:00 - [220]
 

Originally by: Karl Mort
Dear CCP:
While changes to 0.0 reflect your commitment to improvements in the game, I would recommend to seriously listen to CSM



you mean the NC-dominated CSM, who was blatantly ignored for the better of the game? I actually, for once, agree with CCP on ignoring the CSM. CCP realized that if they wanted to save their game, and make it appeal to small gang PVP, they needed to make this change, regardless of what some unpaid, self-centered windbags want changed.

Cellistara
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:09:00 - [221]
 

Originally by: Cynthia Ysolde
Edited by: Cynthia Ysolde on 10/05/2011 18:57:47
Originally by: Cellistara
Originally by: penifSMASH
QQ I'll need a scout now for my T1 shield purger Drake life is so unfair EmbarassedEmbarassedEmbarassed


Does anyone in PL fly drakes? I thought you were all in supers and t3s that DRF bought you.


mad cuz RUS are using the isk they have to actually win in the game instead of using it to pay for Vuk's rent?

NC have owned like 90% of the tech in game for ages and yet we're the ones with the money, ever wonder why?


Well I'm sure NC would have more isk if all their members had multiple accounts that did nothing but bot in supers 23/7. Though with you backing them, and them ddosing everyones forums, ts, and jabber servers they don't really have much to worry about right? CCP wants everyone to leave 0.0 but the russians so they can build their rmt empire.

Akmun Ra
United Kings
R.A.G.E
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:09:00 - [222]
 

Edited by: Akmun Ra on 10/05/2011 19:10:12
Originally by: Cellistara
Quit messing with 0.0, everything that's been done to it since the incursion patches started has been terrible. If your goal is to get everyone but the Russian rmt'ers to leave then keep it up. Otherwise stick to screwing up hisec and leave 0.0 alone.


I completely agree!

This makes cyno-jams less desireable and supercaps EVEN MORE of a tactical advantage than they already are.

CCP policy #1: If it is not broken, fix it until it is.

Firespyer
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:10:00 - [223]
 

Originally by: Vuk Lau
This is ****ing ******ed but nothing else to be expected from 0.0 dev team who wants to limit force projection by raping industrialist and common John 0.0 Doe with this change.

And the worst thing is giving only a week for a change to implement, while there is hundreds of things in backlog community is crying for years, but its more important for you guys to heal the frustrations and enjoy in drama on forums this change will cause. You are that really that horny to **** people up.

Before usual trolls emerge, I need to point my alliance will be the least affected with this cause we have small territorial footprint and we live 10j from Jita and 3j from highsec. Also cynojammers are not any protection for long time, but I pitty all semiserious industrialist in 0.0 and people who are living bit more far from high/low sec. CCP just got your life 10 times harder cause they are ****ing clueless how 0.0 operates.






QFT

MuppetsSlayed
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:10:00 - [224]
 

CCP should nerf Jita.

Impose a 10% sales tax on all sales in Jita as an isk sink and see how quickly the markets decentralise.

Kuar Z'thain
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:11:00 - [225]
 

So.... Goonfleet Blackops didn't camp a set of jump bridges to the point that the hostiles actually offlined them?

I guess bridges are too easy. That why you definitely cannot in any way deploy an interdiction bubble 300 off the tower. Nope, no sir. Can't sit a ****ton of recons on that buble outside of tower range either.

There was absolutely no way of preventing people from using bridges.

/sarcasm


God you people are dumb. You too CCP.

Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
Spreadsheets Online
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:11:00 - [226]
 

Nerf 0.0 anoms... exodus from 0.0.

Now more nerfs to 0.0...

Quote:
The first change is the removal of ships with jumpdrives from the jumpbridge eligibility list. This isn’t very dramatic and long overdue. Basically if your ship has a jumpdrive, it can’t use the jumpbridge (Black Ops ships are exempt from this rule). This change will go in on the 17th of this month.

So on 1 side this is a further nerf to the already useless cyno jammers. The other side means basically nothing as the large amount of LO made it pointless to do already.

Quote:
The second and third changes will go in next month, with the main patch. We will be limiting the number of jumpbridges you can have in a system to one, while upping the fuelbay to 30.000 (3x) to avoid suicide among players who do logistics. We would suggest you start reconfiguring your jumpbridge network as soon as possible.

So you buff the fuel bay size so as to avoid suicide from boredom. Except now there's a need to jump through a gate making the logistics that much harder as well.

Quote:
Is 0.0 industry currently geared to support the population living there?


It hasnt be able to since Ive been around.

Quote:
Is the relationship between 0.0 and empire balanced well enough?

Earn isk in highsec. Build everything in highsec. Fight in 0.0. lolwtf

Quote:
Does the current sovereignty system meet our goals?

If your goal is to make sov warfare as painful as possible that the majority of people want the old system of pos warfare back.Then yes.

Quote:
Are there enough incentives for conflict/pvp outside sov?

Roaming gangs happen just like they have always but it's sov that's useless to fight over.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:11:00 - [227]
 

Oh and…

Offering JF service. Cheap cheap (well… maybe… kind of… nah, not really)!

Laughing

Cassius Hawkeye
Minmatar
Body Count Inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:11:00 - [228]
 

Edited by: Cassius Hawkeye on 10/05/2011 19:12:16
A good change. Thank you CCP for actually looking at a critical flaw in the game, and the direction it is taking.

I lived in deep 0.0 in 2006/07, and it was a hard, but enjoyable life. We did freighter, ops, built titans, and dropped outposts, all funded by 45-50 man freighter ops going 45-50 jumps over a series of a few nights. No jump freighters, very few carriers, no bridges, minimal titans. Yet we still did it.

It really made you apprciate deep 0.0, and the risks associated with it. This change takes us a step closer to the good times. However, jump bridges remain, titans are all over the place, and also - we have jump freighters. So really the changes take us a step back, but not enough to make 0.0 desperatly difficult. It still is easy, and i wish perhaps the changes had been a little more extreme.

However - a definite step in the right direction. I would support these changes whether in a sov holding alliance or not.

Panem EtCircenses
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:11:00 - [229]
 

So, this changes nothing. POS get fuelled by JF, ships get hauled by Carrier, and force is projected by Super Carriers.

The average scrub gets into a huge fleet to move around anyway, so nothing different there ...

And most smart players will be making their ISK in empire anyway, so, um.


Yeah, changes absolutely nothing Rolling Eyes

Admiral Rufus
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:13:00 - [230]
 

haha this is amazing, looking forward to this opening up nullsec more

Forlorn Wongraven
Sarz'na Khumatari
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:13:00 - [231]
 

About time.

xttz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:14:00 - [232]
 

Originally by: CCP Fallout
If it’s difficult catching people moving around, roaming/open world pvp becomes more sidelined, which we’re against

Let's be clear - this change does not promote player vs player, it promotes player versus ganker.
One of the primary draws of conquerable space is the ability to define your own transport and shortcuts. This is of huge importance to the casual 0.0 player who doesn't want to stress about getting an escort fleet everytime he moves his hauler full of salvage somewhere. The net effect of this change will be less casual eve players in 0.0, and eventually less opportunity for exactly the kind of 'PVP' you claim to promote.

Where are the mini-objectives promised for roaming gangs in conquerable 0.0 over eighteen months ago? Why aren't these gangs currently running around with the ability to disrupt jumpbridges and force people to use stargates? This is a hugely regressive step where roamers no longer have to use cunning or specialised ships to kill people outside their own towers, or disrupt their logistics, but instead the aim of their op becomes 'gank hauler on gate, go home'.

Originally by: CCP Fallout
if you’re in an alliance with an intel channel and a semi-decent jumpbridge network, you have a pretty overwhelming degree of safety

This is entirely untrue. People get ganked using jumpbridges (and beacons) all the time. Bombers, HIC traps, drag bubbles, and supercapital drops happen every minute. Try looking for them instead of assuming they do not happen.


Originally by: CCP Fallout
We’re currently looking into a long term plan for 0.0. I say long term, not because it’s planned for 2014, but because the work will begin this winter and hopefully go on for a while

You're nerfing a key part of nullsec in June. You're starting work on our consolation prize 'this winter', meaning it'll be at least 9 months before we see any improvement. Nine months as people move away from living in from vulnerable conquerable stations with little benefit to NPC 0.0 stations with no downsides.

Let's balance the books a little. If conquerable space has to become even more open to NPC-space based gankers, give us the recourse to hit them back. Let use disable NPC 0.0 station services.

Here's a crazy idea - why not introduce your nerfs alongside a proper, well thought out rebalance of nullsec rather than shoving them in now and offering vague promises that something better is coming, hopefully!
Between this and the botched sanctum change, the only people left in conquerable space by that time will be the gankers wondering where all their targets went.

Widemouth Deepthroat
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:15:00 - [233]
 

Originally by: Kuar Z'thain
So.... Goonfleet Blackops didn't camp a set of jump bridges to the point that the hostiles actually offlined them?

I guess bridges are too easy. That why you definitely cannot in any way deploy an interdiction bubble 300 off the tower. Nope, no sir. Can't sit a ****ton of recons on that buble outside of tower range either.

There was absolutely no way of preventing people from using bridges.

/sarcasm


God you people are dumb. You too CCP.


true you can camp but with nc intel channels you get like 1-2 kills then everyone warps to the moon at zero or bounces to avoid the bubble or uses another jump bridge route to completely avoid the system

TornSoul
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:15:00 - [234]
 

1jb per system...

Seriously...

It's like saying a bullet to the head will cure a headache.

-----

Will this give more small scale PvP in 0.0?
In a few select places - yes it will (curing that headache)

In the grand scheme of things it won't do much in that regard however.

Instead (and this is the blowing of your head part) it will favor the large alliances, who has the logistics to simply plop down another JB next door.

Smaller alliances/groups gets screwed. Way to encourage smaller groups into 0.0... You know, for that "smaller warfare" stuff.

It adds even more of a logistics burden to 0.0 (regardless the larger fuel bays, it's still extra bays that needs to be maintained) - More POS's to maintain etc.

Meaning even less of an incentive to go to 0.0.

The large power blocks can handle this (grudgingly) - The smaller ones will proportionally get hurt a lot more.

This change does not _in the grand scheme of things_ achieve the effect you think - Quite the opposite.

---

If you *really* want to go the full mile, then revert to how 0.0 was before RMR (JB and gate wise).

Then you *might* achieve your goal.









Ikoma Sunblazer
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:16:00 - [235]
 

Originally by: Vuk Lau
This is ****ing ******ed but nothing else to be expected from 0.0 dev team who wants to limit force projection by raping industrialist and common John 0.0 Doe with this change.

And the worst thing is giving only a week for a change to implement, while there is hundreds of things in backlog community is crying for years, but its more important for you guys to heal the frustrations and enjoy in drama on forums this change will cause. You are that really that horny to **** people up.

Before usual trolls emerge, I need to point my alliance will be the least affected with this cause we have small territorial footprint and we live 10j from Jita and 3j from highsec. Also cynojammers are not any protection for long time, but I pitty all semiserious industrialist in 0.0 and people who are living bit more far from high/low sec. CCP just got your life 10 times harder cause they are ****ing clueless how 0.0 operates.






Hey Vuk m8 why so mad you didn't disagree with these changes in the last csm minutes:

Originally by: CSM Minutes
The CSM was somewhat divided on how aggressive CCP should be with any nerfing. However, one CSM suggested, with respect to the nerfing of jump bridges, “get rid of them.”

Greyscale: “Anyone disagree with that?”

CSM response varied between “Nope,” “Nah” and a simple “No”.

Greyscale: “Sweet!” – meaning that option will then not be discarded when the topic of jump bridges will be on CCP’s table.



Cadiz
Caldari
EXTERMINATUS.
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:16:00 - [236]
 

You'll be doing something to allow us to remove existing JB upgrades from ihubs with this change, right?

Right?

TheNewEclipse
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:16:00 - [237]
 

this is crap. ccp get ur head on straight. ur essentually runing what alot of ppl have worked hard and paid lots for.

Pallidum Treponema
Body Count Inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:16:00 - [238]
 

Edited by: Pallidum Treponema on 10/05/2011 19:18:18
Originally by: ArmyOfMe
JB MAP

This show why jb's had to be nerfed tbfh


You should be using this map instead. Much better:

http://nc-jb-map.appspot.com/

Woodywilson
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:17:00 - [239]
 

Originally by: Panem EtCircenses
So, this changes nothing. POS get fuelled by JF, ships get hauled by Carrier, and force is projected by Super Carriers.

The average scrub gets into a huge fleet to move around anyway, so nothing different there ...

And most smart players will be making their ISK in empire anyway, so, um.


Yeah, changes absolutely nothing Rolling Eyes


The more things change, the more they stay the same.

WilliamMays
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:17:00 - [240]
 

I am amazed at how quickly you impliment the bad ideas, without even thinking through all the side effects; but continue to ignore quality feedback and suggestions. This is obviously your method of preventing the defenders from jumping in a blob of capitals on the BS fleet attacking a cyno jammer. What do you say about rorquals entering cyno jammed refinery systems; but then it might be a fleet of battle rorqs, right? Is gate camping CCP's intended endgame pvp; I dont recall the epic marketing video of 20-30 highly skilled veterans waiting for the single industrial to uncloak after jumping. No, thats right, the game is shown as a great empire fighting against another great empire. You seem to be doing everything you can to take the game in the opposite direction.

Since the last big 0.0 nerf was accompanied by a mission buff mainly for hi sec, why not continue this trend? You should add level 6 missions, with garaunteed faction spawns and frequent officers, to +0.8 and higher systems, and make them best run in t1 cruisers.

Better yet, pull your heads out of that dark hole between your but cheeks and try playing different parts of the game before you decide "how it should be"


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