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Woodywilson
Posted - 2011.05.16 17:45:00 - [2161]
 

Originally by: Reidsol
Originally by: knobber Jobbler
It's about forcing small gang pvp


Looks like the neighborhood cat has altered your concept of a sandbox...

Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari
draketrain
Posted - 2011.05.16 21:04:00 - [2162]
 

I am currently happy 0.0 dweller.

However.

This blog makes me ask how is CCP (hopefully with happy help from players and CSM) going to improve low sec and npc 0.0 in same way than "ordinary" 0.0

I think currently low sec is in need of even bigger overhaul than 0.0

Taizho Traumeel
Posted - 2011.05.17 00:55:00 - [2163]
 

CCP screwing 0.0 again. I hope your patch breaks the servers and you have to spend all day/night fixing it. What will you take away from us next? You are really screwing logistics in 0.0. I am not sure why. Have you given reasons why?

Blaad Booyashaka
Minmatar
Appetite 4 Destruction
Posted - 2011.05.17 01:12:00 - [2164]
 

I thought that JB in every other system and 20 large bubbles on every gate are working as intended.

Rebnok
Body Count Inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.05.17 01:54:00 - [2165]
 

:hi5: ccp

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.05.17 07:57:00 - [2166]
 

Originally by: Taizho Traumeel
CCP screwing 0.0 again. I hope your patch breaks the servers and you have to spend all day/night fixing it. What will you take away from us next? You are really screwing logistics in 0.0. I am not sure why. Have you given reasons why?


Go on, please do tell us all how having to make 2 warps between jump bridges instead of one is "really screwing" logistics.

Kandarus
Minmatar
Lyonesse.
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2011.05.17 08:40:00 - [2167]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Taizho Traumeel
CCP screwing 0.0 again. I hope your patch breaks the servers and you have to spend all day/night fixing it. What will you take away from us next? You are really screwing logistics in 0.0. I am not sure why. Have you given reasons why?


Go on, please do tell us all how having to make 2 warps between jump bridges instead of one is "really screwing" logistics.


I guess obvious math is not so obvious... Multiply x by 2 and you will see the difference. Not to mention ALL fine jb networks have to re-planned and setup. These guys seriously put more thought into these endeavors then it seems *insert company name here* about *insert game here*. Rolling Eyes

Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2011.05.17 10:12:00 - [2168]
 

Originally by: Kandarus
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Taizho Traumeel
CCP screwing 0.0 again. I hope your patch breaks the servers and you have to spend all day/night fixing it. What will you take away from us next? You are really screwing logistics in 0.0. I am not sure why. Have you given reasons why?


Go on, please do tell us all how having to make 2 warps between jump bridges instead of one is "really screwing" logistics.


I guess obvious math is not so obvious... Multiply x by 2 and you will see the difference. Not to mention ALL fine jb networks have to re-planned and setup. These guys seriously put more thought into these endeavors then it seems *insert company name here* about *insert game here*. Rolling Eyes


Your whining is absolutely delicious.

Zan Atropus
Posted - 2011.05.17 11:03:00 - [2169]
 

While you are at changing the cap of JB's in a solar system, you should really do the same to CSAA's.
At the moment setting up one CSAA is very costly, and basically it just becomes a lot cheaper the more you add, cause the Cyno Jammer defends more CSAA's and in terms of logistics you only ever need one logistic plan to support one or more CSAA's up until the point where you have use up all the moons in the system.

Add a cap for anchored/onlined CSAA's set it to 4 personally i would rather want it at 2 but there will be way to much whine about it. Hopefully this could help put a stop to the insane amount of super caps that are being build.

xsnakebytex
The Remnant Legion.
Posted - 2011.05.17 11:48:00 - [2170]
 

CCP's thoughts: Subcaps are too easy to move around, but dropping supers on everything is still very much fine and dandy.

This change will cause a lot of gate camps, and moving ships and fleets around EVE to engage eachother will take longer.

I guess we can all look forward to supers being used even more.

Cantina Pinata
Posted - 2011.05.17 13:55:00 - [2171]
 

For the whiners

1: "Adapt or die"
2: Being in 1 place for 7 years doesnt buy you ccp shares. In the end you paid for a few pixels.
3: You can always try WoW



JT Black
Amarr
ALPHA REACTION
Posted - 2011.05.17 15:03:00 - [2172]
 

CCP if this is the start of your 0.0 revision keep it up !

You lot got to confortable living like worms used to all sorts of safety behind your glass empires.

Nul sec should be hard not made easy . Learn to navigate as it was supposed to be, use the blessed gates . Not enought protection? Outposts,unlimited POS's ,sirens to warn you we are in local...local system chat being spammed by idiots who screaaamm for help and other things...
You have your intel channels stop moaning bunch of wimps.

But no for you lot has to be 110% safety and no risk ! 100% profit only .
Nerf them , Nerf them hard CCP and by the way nerf anomalies more and make all rats to scramble this army of ***g*ts ! Let them use the belts at their own leisure with their own " tweaks " ...

Looking at the amount of tears in this post this has the desired effect !Twisted Evil




Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.05.17 15:46:00 - [2173]
 

Originally by: xsnakebytex
CCP's thoughts: Subcaps are too easy to move around, but dropping supers on everything is still very much fine and dandy.

This change will cause a lot of gate camps, and moving ships and fleets around EVE to engage eachother will take longer.

I guess we can all look forward to supers being used even more.


Right, because it's not like CCP just said that supers are on the "rebalance" shortlist or anything Rolling Eyes

xsnakebytex
The Remnant Legion.
Posted - 2011.05.17 16:12:00 - [2174]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: xsnakebytex
CCP's thoughts: Subcaps are too easy to move around, but dropping supers on everything is still very much fine and dandy.

This change will cause a lot of gate camps, and moving ships and fleets around EVE to engage eachother will take longer.

I guess we can all look forward to supers being used even more.


Right, because it's not like CCP just said that supers are on the "rebalance" shortlist or anything Rolling Eyes


Anything else you would like to contribute?Wink

El'Niaga
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.05.17 16:15:00 - [2175]
 

Originally by: Cantina Pinata
For the whiners

1: "Adapt or die"
2: Being in 1 place for 7 years doesnt buy you ccp shares. In the end you paid for a few pixels.
3: You can always try WoW





Its attitudes like this expressed by the Devs and their focus groups in SWG that led to the massive collapse of the game after the NGE. Today they remove or affect something that doesn't bother you but because of narrow viewpoint you can't see the greater implications. Tomorrow they remove or change something you like. It is always how it goes.

Blaad Booyashaka
Minmatar
Appetite 4 Destruction
Posted - 2011.05.17 17:16:00 - [2176]
 

JBs in every other system and 20+ large bubbles on gates is GOOD SANDBOX! ugh

Psycho Therapy
Posted - 2011.05.17 17:41:00 - [2177]
 

Originally by: ReK42


Lastly, this change will not have the effect you want. You said this is being done to promote player interaction but it will do the exact opposite. Without the ability to create cross-region chained bridge networks such as the eye of terror, which would essential double in length in terms of jumps needed to cross it, moving fleets of any size, from terrible lag-inducing blobs to small 10-20 man recon gangs, into combat areas will become many times more difficult. It also severely affects an alliance's ability to defend its space for the same reasons: more jumps means a longer response time for home defense fleets which means more chance for the reds to get away and less chance of player interaction (ie, a fight).



So you don't think making hit and run gangs more viable by reducing the sov holders' ability to respond quickly with a large overpowered force will result in more hit and run gangs? Interesting.


Elite28
Caldari
BURN EDEN
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2011.05.17 18:52:00 - [2178]
 

Edited by: Elite28 on 17/05/2011 18:52:37
For those who didn't want to read the previous 73 pages....

Summary of thread: CCP: Hello, soon we will be removing some advantages to those who own space to make it fair for others.

Carebears: But but but WWaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!
8 (:::::::::::::::::::::

Miagi Sans
Amarr
PURgE-Corp
PURgE Alliance
Posted - 2011.05.17 19:40:00 - [2179]
 

People keep saying that this will hurt smaller alliances. As a member of a smaller alliance i call rubbish on this statement. Over a year ago we snuck into the south (we got 2-3 plots of land) doing nothing but freighter escorts into deep south space (we stole a little plot of land from initiative) and we lived there for months with NO jump bridge support, and we had maybe 2 carriers and 1 jf. We did everything the hard way.

We got our sov up to lvl 5 military and lvl 4 indy before we were "evicted" Very Happy (no hard feelings...had a blast with our neighbors and some great times!" We had to travel a minimum of 20 jumps in and out. It was not that bad. It actually was quite fun. We made plenty of money and had plenty of good (and bad) times as a group.

The point is not to spread yourself out too thinly...you dont need 100 systems if 25 will do everything you need it to do. Thats the point i hope of the JB and upcoming 0.0 changes....get the ball moving on more localized and smaller land owners (without having to become renters) and hopefully thinning out the bloated space we see on the sov map.

I could be delusionally idealic...but a man can dream.

Oh and since we live in low sec...could we please get some lovin' for low sec!


Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.05.17 20:18:00 - [2180]
 

Edited by: Andski on 17/05/2011 20:20:17
Originally by: Vince Draken
Intresting to see its only NC moaning in this thread out of all the 0.0 Alliances / Groups of dudes.

Carebear heaven shall be no longer AS safe as it is now, All we need now is remove cyno jammers + becons and... Welcome back 2003 0.0:-D




Probably because it's not just the NC?

You're a drooling moron if you think that sovereignty-holding alliances shouldn't have the upper hand in their own space. The odds should be stacked against any attacker.

But I guess it's too hard to think when you're oh so excited about all those haulers you'll get to pop to pad your ~k/d ratio~

Fesecious
Gallente
Eye of God
Posted - 2011.05.17 20:45:00 - [2181]
 

CCP puts it right out infront of you in their post. They do not really care anymore about what the players want its what they want. Back in the day they actually listened to the players. They clearly state that they want it to meet their goals.

Yes EVE is going more and more carebearish. I like the difference between highsec, low and null but things like the removal and consolidation of skills is also going along the carebear route. New players no longer have to spend a couple of weeks in the beginning training the learning skills in order to save months of training down the road. Now they are consolidating the social skills. I liked the idea of if you go to a security agent you get combat and mining you get mining. That is logical but no reason to condense down or take skills out. Part of what makes EVE great is that it makes you think about what you are doing and plan ahead.

My idea of what 0.0 was is a place for the players to settle call home and build an infrastructure like what the NPC corps did with empire. Which from what i can see is what NC did and the rest of null is more or less 3rd world tribes fighting. If someone was to get all the tribes to unite you have SC and then have a well developed area there also. Which would lead to CCP needing to add a story line or something in of new territory to be explored and or settled. I dont know thats just my thoughts off the top of my head. Just throwing the idea out there.

The biggest complaint i have with them is allowing the sales of characters. This i think would adjust the cap and super cap quite drastically and corps would be more inclined to try to keep those players in game. It would be a serious thing to lose a cap or super cap pilot. Right now its just a mater of ISK to get another.

javer's donkey
Posted - 2011.05.17 20:59:00 - [2182]
 

well ccp is bunch of brain dead monkeys when it comes to understanding 0.0 and they seem to wanna provide us with more and more evidence about this

it took you guys ages to fix the c*ck up you made in dominion now you wanna go and drive us into empire with making the logistics even more hatefull and time consuming?

after you launched lvl 4 missions then 0.0 was a wasteland and now your heading to override the changes that made 0.0 a decent place to live were risk vs reward was in a semi balance

ccp=cant code properly

Elite28
Caldari
BURN EDEN
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2011.05.17 21:42:00 - [2183]
 

Edited by: Elite28 on 17/05/2011 21:49:34
Originally by: Andski
Edited by: Andski on 17/05/2011 20:20:17
Originally by: Vince Draken
Intresting to see its only NC moaning in this thread out of all the 0.0 Alliances / Groups of dudes.

Carebear heaven shall be no longer AS safe as it is now, All we need now is remove cyno jammers + becons and... Welcome back 2003 0.0:-D




Probably because it's not just the NC?

You're a drooling moron if you think that sovereignty-holding alliances shouldn't have the upper hand in their own space. The odds should be stacked against any attacker.

But I guess it's too hard to think when you're oh so excited about all those haulers you'll get to pop to pad your ~k/d ratio~



Sure lets do that. No wait it's already like this. The consistent stream of intel, the cyno jammers, the Player stations only the ones who built it or are blue can dock at, the POSs, the easy access that Jump bridges allow, used all the time to get infront of hostiles to camp them down a pipe. The ease of creating fleets on a moments notice. etc etc.

So lets keep this how it is. Lets give all the advantage to the space owner. But then how do the small pvp corps do anything taking conventional small roams to enemy space. You get reported on intel channels, you gather a fleet from all around the region, JBs ease this. Blob created. Blob is sent to kill the small pvp gang or to camp them with having better maneuverability, better fits/composition for hostiles.

People get bored of this.

Also for the people who want to throw their ego into this post. Ya, it happens to you too.
Feel free to dissect this and whine some more.

Flesh Slurper
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.05.17 22:01:00 - [2184]
 

Originally by: Elite28

Sure lets do that. No wait it's already like this. The consistent stream of intel, the cyno jammers, the Player stations only the ones who built it or are blue can dock at, the POSs, the easy access that Jump bridges allow, used all the time to get infront of hostiles to camp them down a pipe. The ease of creating fleets on a moments notice. etc etc.

So lets keep this how it is. Lets give all the advantage to the space owner. But then how do the small pvp corps do anything taking conventional small roams to enemy space. You get reported on intel channels, you gather a fleet from all around the region, JBs ease this. Blob created. Blob is sent to kill the small pvp gang or to camp them with having better maneuverability, better fits/composition for hostiles.

People get bored of this.

Also for the people who want to throw their ego into this post. Ya, it happens to you too.
Feel free to dissect this and whine some more.


Changing bridges wont give you what you want. The best tactic to keep roaming gangs out of space is simply to deny them what they want: good fights. The best ways to do so are either to avoid them completely till they leave out of boredom or crush them with overwhelming numbers so they get tired of loosing. You may have more spots you can camp, but that doesn't mean that sov holders will let you grief their people any more than before. The end result, is generally people *don't want* to be attacked unless they feel like fighting and the point of holding sov in the first place is to build infrastructure. Sov's very nature is contrary to the idea of small gang warfare. People who want small gangs don't hold sov, they live in NPC null or lowsec.

Elite28
Caldari
BURN EDEN
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2011.05.17 23:50:00 - [2185]
 

CHanging bridges gives them less chance to out maneuver small faster gangs. Ignoring them is not always the case and you should know this. Also stop posting with alts...

SirLANsalot
Posted - 2011.05.18 01:24:00 - [2186]
 

Null is STILL as dangerous as it was before. Only now you have large alliances, or groups of alliances working together to make it safer then it was before. If CCP could see all the industrial ships that are killed on JB's every day, they would know that null is as dangerous as it was before. So adjusting the game to what the players have done or are doing is just plain stupid (granted the obvious exploit here and there). However changing the game entirely all because players have started to work together to create a "new" high sec is something that has been a part of the game since day 1, PLAYER INTERACTION. If we all were flying supers, I think CCP would do something to change them. Not because there overpowered (even tho they are right now) but because most of the eve players have reached the point in the game to where they all can fly 20 supers and you would have super on super fighting. The game GROWS every day, new players that never have flown a cap, now fly them almost every day. Players that have normal carriers are upgrading to supers, its how the game works and plays.

It's the same with the JB's now, before they were a nice perk, just like supers, and now there a bread and butter thing, just like how supers will be one day. Only reason there "safe" at all is because the game has moved to the point where they can be. People are used to the current system, and instead of progressing the game farther, CCP is digressing the game. As such people are going to scream about it and either CCP will revert there horrid change (they have done it before) or we all will, grudgingly, adapt.

I have pitched an alternate idea (that seems to have been ignored) that would give CCP there goal of making JB's no longer safe. Make the JB module it self take more Power-grid or CPU. So that you will have nothing but the JB mod on that POS, and it becomes the fast travel system that the network was made to be. Only now, there just like normal gates with no defenses (or just a few LOL guns) that go else where in the universe, 5LY at a time.

If CCP wants more ISK sinks since this is going to make a big one (if anyone watched the Fan-fest vid on economy you would know this is a part of there ISK sinks). They should think of something else other then punishing current SOV holders. Like adding MORE benefits to being in Null, by ways of adding more types of upgrades for your Ihub and adding better Ihubs. Even making an Ihub upgrade to allow more then 1 JB in a system, thus creating an even bigger ISK sink (then the current update) for your economy guys.

There are many other (and better) options then doing this, current update. Ones that would give CCP what they want while still making players happy.

P.S: people posting on there alts is smart, so you don't get flamed in game with your real one Razz

Royaldo
Gallente
Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch.
Sev3rance
Posted - 2011.05.18 01:24:00 - [2187]
 

So this 1 thing keeps poping up alot. People ***** and whine about intel channels.
Whats the deal *****es?

Dendel Hypermach
Posted - 2011.05.18 01:59:00 - [2188]
 

Originally by: xsnakebytex
CCP's thoughts: Subcaps are too easy to move around, but dropping supers on everything is still very much fine and dandy.


**** yeah, nerfing the newbies just getting out to 0.0 is bull ****ing **** and Soundwave &all ought be ashamed for even having considered this path.

Side note, the Dominion cost for having a JB in system better be dropped to 1/5 what it is now.

CCP you're really being a bunch of @#$@#$ @#$@#$ tosser @#$@#$s.


Dendel Hypermach
Posted - 2011.05.18 02:01:00 - [2189]
 

Given that you need to gate out of a JB link, why on earth would caps be banned from JB's? A Single JB per system fixes your perceived cap ship problem, don't double fix i.t

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.05.18 05:10:00 - [2190]
 

Edited by: Hirana Yoshida on 18/05/2011 05:12:49
Originally by: SirLANsalot
..If CCP could see all the industrial ships that are killed on JB's every day,..

It is called PvE, it is one step up from ganking ratters but still PvE. Bet "all those industrials" amount to less than what is killed on a single generic busy gate in low-sec .. just sayin' Smile

Had I "grown up" with omni-present bridges I'd be pretty irate as well, but I actually moved to low-sec when the spam started partially because null was being dumbed down to Blob! vs Blob! .. fun and challenge went AWOL.

Being able to pay ones way to an advantage as huge as that offered by omni-present bridges is part of why they are were broken .. look at what you get per ISK when buying/using faction stuff: single digit performance % increases at insane mark-ups, if that was to be applied to bridges and the power the represent the costs would be so high that only real world millionaires with daily PLEX orders could compete.
ISK makes for a really crappy balancing mechanism in all areas which is why it is not used.

I'll say it again, JB's could be so much more than they are but CCP lacks the inspiration/people to think outside the box:
- Highway Bridges: Anchored at planetoids, open for all, owners able to offline fast/online slow.
- Conflicted Bridges: Unable to online bridge in system with anchored jammer.
- .....

Originally by: Dendel Hypermach
Given that you need to gate out of a JB link, why on earth would caps be banned from JB's? A Single JB per system fixes your perceived cap ship problem, don't double fix i.t

Because we all want (and need) some of the 3000+ supercapitals to die in a fire which is nigh impossible if they can be moved into jammed parking systems on a whim.


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