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DahMainMan
Posted - 2011.05.15 19:59:00 - [2131]
 

Edited by: DahMainMan on 15/05/2011 20:00:19
you think its about null?? you think its about anything other than more gtc's for ccp? if you think this is for the players..or the game, you are wrong..dead ass wrong!

here ill make it easy for yah, more chance of death=more gtcs sold or bought by the players=more money in ccps pockets..period.


face it, ccp just w***ed up big time.

way to go. btw i havent used a jb in many years. however if you make the alliance have to fule it..support it and THEN act like its a feckin cake walk for said persons... shows how detached from your player base/game you guys rly are.

all in all, just die and buy more gtc's for ccp to get yet more money. <====THE IS THE TRUTH! PERIOD! PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!

Panda Name
Amarr
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2011.05.15 21:52:00 - [2132]
 

Originally by: DahMainMan
Edited by: DahMainMan on 15/05/2011 20:00:19
you think its about null?? you think its about anything other than more gtc's for ccp? if you think this is for the players..or the game, you are wrong..dead ass wrong!

here ill make it easy for yah, more chance of death=more gtcs sold or bought by the players=more money in ccps pockets..period.


face it, ccp just w***ed up big time.

way to go. btw i havent used a jb in many years. however if you make the alliance have to fule it..support it and THEN act like its a feckin cake walk for said persons... shows how detached from your player base/game you guys rly are.

all in all, just die and buy more gtc's for ccp to get yet more money. <====THE IS THE TRUTH! PERIOD! PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!


so you're saying that you are really bad at this game, and have to resort to buying time cards for isk. looks like you can't hack it in 0.0, so please report to motsu. thanks for sharing, brah.

SexxxSlave
Posted - 2011.05.15 23:35:00 - [2133]
 

Still think theres nothing wrong with the current iteration of Jump Bridges and that they DONT need to be nerfed?

Take a look at this, maybe you'll change your mind.

Current NC Jump Bridge Map

Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.05.16 00:35:00 - [2134]
 

Originally by: SexxxSlave
Still think theres nothing wrong with the current iteration of Jump Bridges and that they DONT need to be nerfed?

Take a look at this, maybe you'll change your mind.

Current NC Jump Bridge Map



What is wrong with 18 alliances interconnecting 11 regions to form a state of risk free logistics and power projection Zen?

Perinol
Posted - 2011.05.16 00:44:00 - [2135]
 

Originally by: SexxxSlave
Still think theres nothing wrong with the current iteration of Jump Bridges and that they DONT need to be nerfed?

Take a look at this, maybe you'll change your mind.

Current NC Jump Bridge Map



So ?

They put the time an effort in to create that. Then time an effort to fuel it. Good for them.

I would have built less JB's an got some more supercaps to defend it all.

Has all those JB's made the NC unbeatable ? The current situation would suggest not.

Selnix
Gallente
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.05.16 01:32:00 - [2136]
 

Originally by: FellRaven
Originally by: Selnix
Well then at least we can agree on removing unprobable ships from the game, no more easy mode - Original post

No disagreement there. I'm pretty sure you'll get your wish too :)- Soundwave

Dearest Soundwave,

While I do love that you have finally chosen to give people reason to use those stargate thingers that the art department made us new models for a while back, please do make a couple of changes to the Warfare Processor subsystems for Tech III Cruisers before you remove unprobability.

  • Role Bonus: 99% reductin in Warfare Link module CPU need. Can use 3 Warfare Link modules simultaneously.

  • Subsystem Skill Bonus: 7.5% bonus to all Shield(Minmatar & Caldari)/Armor(Gallente & Amarr) resistances per level


I see no reason to not make them just as vulnerable to being probed down as any other ship, but if they are going to be put back in the battle where they belong it would be nice if they can fill their given role without mids full of command processors and lows full of co-procs. Let them tank like a Command Ship and get doomsday'd like command ships. YARRRR!!


So why then should it be unprobable as that would appear to defeat your own argument. As it stands now T2 ship have more than doubled in price due to CCP changes, in addition faction ships and T3 are getting better bonuses.

Yes people are flying Dramiels and Cynabals instead of Crows and Vagabonds. In my opinion the gap between Faction and T2 should be smaller if indeed there should be one at all. As for T3 well they are a joke, instead of being jack of all trades they are masters of all trades and this seems just a tad overpowered to me. Sure they cost a lot more and in many configurations (excluding, Covert Ops Nullified and Unprobable)you stand to lose a lot but for my money they are too flexible and can perform too many roles better than other ships.

They are after all cruisers and they can have a better tanks than a BS, can be faster than a vaga, can better a specialist prober, can warp through bubbles, can have a **** ton of DPS, and you want then to be infinitely better than a Commandship too. Yes I know you have to use different sub-systems for each set-up but it's still way overpowered for the skills requirement.


I shall now dub myself Glenn Beck... Arguing with Idiots:

  • I agree with the removal of unprobability. Read my first post.

  • Even if CS have doubled in price, T3s cost double what they do

  • When you attempt to argue that T3s can fill all roles, try finding fits that all utilize the same T2 rigs so you aren't destroying a couple hundred million isk in rigs every time you refit for a fleet.

  • T3s are only faster than vagabonds when both fit ABs, otherwise they are relatively equal or the Vaga is faster.

  • Covops have the same probing strength bonus of a T3, neither can fit more than 2 probing rigs, covops can also light covert cynos where a T3 can not

  • Better tanks than BS is ambiguous as tank will always be proportionate to isk investment. Deadspace active tank Tengu can't touch Maelstrom or Golem so I don't see what you're on about.

  • If 6-700 is a S-ton of DPS, then you are a fool. Raven with T1 torps can do that.

  • 2% per level to Gang Link bonuses is not infinitely better than Command Ships.

  • Check insurance payouts for T3s sometime br0



You want EVE to be a game of paper, paper, OMGWTFBSBLOB! What CCP likes is our current game of rock, paper, sciss0rz where you can potentially find more than one solution to a given situation and it does not always just come down to how many people can you get into ships they don't have a reason to care about losing.

Selnix
Gallente
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.05.16 01:39:00 - [2137]
 

Originally by: Perinol
Originally by: SexxxSlave
Still think theres nothing wrong with the current iteration of Jump Bridges and that they DONT need to be nerfed?

Take a look at this, maybe you'll change your mind.

Current NC Jump Bridge Map



So ?

They put the time an effort in to create that. Then time an effort to fuel it. Good for them.

I would have built less JB's an got some more supercaps to defend it all.

Has all those JB's made the NC unbeatable ? The current situation would suggest not.


All of those Jump Bridges, while not making the NC completely invulnerable, has made it simply impossible for small entities in EVE to have a chance of carving out a little place in space for themselves without becoming pawns of a larger Alliance. Speaking hypothetically, should a small group who could match numbers with the people in Fountain have tried to launch an invasion, the NC and other allies of the residents would simply have hopped in gang, Jump Bridged across EVE over the course of an hour or less and simply curbstomped the crap outta the little guys then hopped right home with little or no effort. In an EVE without Jump Bridges, force projection of that type would require a commitment to either take the fight across the map or stay at home to defend the castle. Making power blocs harder to run logistically is a good thing in terms of opening up 0.0 to the little Empire pubbies that may want to come be targets for those of us who could care less about holding sov.

Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.05.16 02:10:00 - [2138]
 

Originally by: Selnix
I shall now dub myself Glenn Beck... Arguing with Idiots:

  • I agree with the removal of unprobability. Read my first post.

  • Even if CS have doubled in price, T3s cost double what they do

  • When you attempt to argue that T3s can fill all roles, try finding fits that all utilize the same T2 rigs so you aren't destroying a couple hundred million isk in rigs every time you refit for a fleet.

  • T3s are only faster than vagabonds when both fit ABs, otherwise they are relatively equal or the Vaga is faster.

  • Covops have the same probing strength bonus of a T3, neither can fit more than 2 probing rigs, covops can also light covert cynos where a T3 can not

  • Better tanks than BS is ambiguous as tank will always be proportionate to isk investment. Deadspace active tank Tengu can't touch Maelstrom or Golem so I don't see what you're on about.

  • If 6-700 is a S-ton of DPS, then you are a fool. Raven with T1 torps can do that.

  • 2% per level to Gang Link bonuses is not infinitely better than Command Ships.

  • Check insurance payouts for T3s sometime br0



You want EVE to be a game of paper, paper, OMGWTFBSBLOB! What CCP likes is our current game of rock, paper, sciss0rz where you can potentially find more than one solution to a given situation and it does not always just come down to how many people can you get into ships they don't have a reason to care about losing.


Don't forget that you lose skill points when you die in a T3.

Shepard Book
Posted - 2011.05.16 02:34:00 - [2139]
 

Is 0.0 industry currently geared to support the population living there?
Is the relationship between 0.0 and empire balanced well enough?
Does the current sovereignty system meet our goals?
Are there enough incentives for conflict/pvp outside sov?
Are we happy with movement/player interaction?
Does the plan for DUST 514 need changes?

I am glad you are saying this. I think we all know 0.0 is out of wack and needs improvement in all categories. BTW, what is the current plan for 514 and at this point are we looking at 2012 if we are lucky?

Trader Jen
Posted - 2011.05.16 03:13:00 - [2140]
 

Originally by: Perinol
Originally by: SexxxSlave
Still think theres nothing wrong with the current iteration of Jump Bridges and that they DONT need to be nerfed?

Take a look at this, maybe you'll change your mind.

Current NC Jump Bridge Map



So ?

They put the time an effort in to create that. Then time an effort to fuel it. Good for them.

I would have built less JB's an got some more supercaps to defend it all.

Has all those JB's made the NC unbeatable ? The current situation would suggest not.


see selnix's post...

Alghara
Posted - 2011.05.16 07:26:00 - [2141]
 

Originally by: Selnix
Originally by: Perinol
Originally by: SexxxSlave
Still think theres nothing wrong with the current iteration of Jump Bridges and that they DONT need to be nerfed?

Take a look at this, maybe you'll change your mind.

Current NC Jump Bridge Map



So ?

They put the time an effort in to create that. Then time an effort to fuel it. Good for them.

I would have built less JB's an got some more supercaps to defend it all.

Has all those JB's made the NC unbeatable ? The current situation would suggest not.


All of those Jump Bridges, while not making the NC completely invulnerable, has made it simply impossible for small entities in EVE to have a chance of carving out a little place in space for themselves without becoming pawns of a larger Alliance. Speaking hypothetically, should a small group who could match numbers with the people in Fountain have tried to launch an invasion, the NC and other allies of the residents would simply have hopped in gang, Jump Bridged across EVE over the course of an hour or less and simply curbstomped the crap outta the little guys then hopped right home with little or no effort. In an EVE without Jump Bridges, force projection of that type would require a commitment to either take the fight across the map or stay at home to defend the castle. Making power blocs harder to run logistically is a good thing in terms of opening up 0.0 to the little Empire pubbies that may want to come be targets for those of us who could care less about holding sov.


False.

The projection is still very simple. Ask to somebody to make a contract of one item where you would like to go (new form-up). When you have this item in the station change the station where you clone come back. Succid clone and it's ok. And carrier for logistics (ship).

They are not impact to the big battle for the big alliance. The impact will be more for small alliance or some place where they are not a lot of people to live.


Selnix
Gallente
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.05.16 07:57:00 - [2142]
 

Originally by: Alghara
Originally by: Selnix
Originally by: Perinol
Originally by: SexxxSlave
Still think theres nothing wrong with the current iteration of Jump Bridges and that they DONT need to be nerfed?

Take a look at this, maybe you'll change your mind.

Current NC Jump Bridge Map



So ?

They put the time an effort in to create that. Then time an effort to fuel it. Good for them.

I would have built less JB's an got some more supercaps to defend it all.

Has all those JB's made the NC unbeatable ? The current situation would suggest not.


All of those Jump Bridges, while not making the NC completely invulnerable, has made it simply impossible for small entities in EVE to have a chance of carving out a little place in space for themselves without becoming pawns of a larger Alliance. Speaking hypothetically, should a small group who could match numbers with the people in Fountain have tried to launch an invasion, the NC and other allies of the residents would simply have hopped in gang, Jump Bridged across EVE over the course of an hour or less and simply curbstomped the crap outta the little guys then hopped right home with little or no effort. In an EVE without Jump Bridges, force projection of that type would require a commitment to either take the fight across the map or stay at home to defend the castle. Making power blocs harder to run logistically is a good thing in terms of opening up 0.0 to the little Empire pubbies that may want to come be targets for those of us who could care less about holding sov.


False.

The projection is still very simple. Ask to somebody to make a contract of one item where you would like to go (new form-up). When you have this item in the station change the station where you clone come back. Succid clone and it's ok. And carrier for logistics (ship).

They are not impact to the big battle for the big alliance. The impact will be more for small alliance or some place where they are not a lot of people to live.




You seem to assume that you can clone in a station which your corporation has no offices. That assumption is a fallacy. Furthermore, it would require having ships for the entirety of said 2-500 person blob already fitted and awaiting them in the destination system.

In the future, before you start attempting to contradict people, check your facts and perhaps look into the game mechanics so you can base your argument on facts instead of assumptions.

Resender
Posted - 2011.05.16 08:22:00 - [2143]
 

I would agree with CCP that this would be good but under the current circumstances in this nerf could lead to nothing but misery
Yes, JB weren't around in the early days but a lot has changed
For one the population has grown exponentially; super capitals especially titans can serve as a bridge; lag is being used as a war strategy especially by the Russian alliances,PL and BoB's latest incarnations (no offence to the hard work of these alliances but there is some truth to it); we got T3 that can literally get to any system in game if they have interdiction nullifier and there pretty overpowered when they just have to intercept a mixed fleet; qwe got to make our own fuel and last and not least the new sov mechanics force people to concentrate on only a handful of systems cause it ridiculous expensive to hold sov over a small hand of systems that are of no value.

Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.05.16 09:03:00 - [2144]
 

Originally by: Resender
lag is being used as a war strategy especially by the Russian alliances,PL and BoB's latest incarnations (no offence to the hard work of these alliances but there is some truth to it)


This guy for real?

FellRaven
Minmatar
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.05.16 09:22:00 - [2145]
 

Originally by: Selnix
Originally by: FellRaven


So why then should it be unprobable as that would appear to defeat your own argument. As it stands now T2 ship have more than doubled in price due to CCP changes, in addition faction ships and T3 are getting better bonuses.

Yes people are flying Dramiels and Cynabals instead of Crows and Vagabonds. In my opinion the gap between Faction and T2 should be smaller if indeed there should be one at all. As for T3 well they are a joke, instead of being jack of all trades they are masters of all trades and this seems just a tad overpowered to me. Sure they cost a lot more and in many configurations (excluding, Covert Ops Nullified and Unprobable)you stand to lose a lot but for my money they are too flexible and can perform too many roles better than other ships.

They are after all cruisers and they can have a better tanks than a BS, can be faster than a vaga, can better a specialist prober, can warp through bubbles, can have a **** ton of DPS, and you want then to be infinitely better than a Commandship too. Yes I know you have to use different sub-systems for each set-up but it's still way overpowered for the skills requirement.


I shall now dub myself Glenn Beck... Arguing with Idiots:

  • I agree with the removal of unprobability. Read my first post.

  • Even if CS have doubled in price, T3s cost double what they do

  • When you attempt to argue that T3s can fill all roles, try finding fits that all utilize the same T2 rigs so you aren't destroying a couple hundred million isk in rigs every time you refit for a fleet.

  • T3s are only faster than vagabonds when both fit ABs, otherwise they are relatively equal or the Vaga is faster.

  • Covops have the same probing strength bonus of a T3, neither can fit more than 2 probing rigs, covops can also light covert cynos where a T3 can not

  • Better tanks than BS is ambiguous as tank will always be proportionate to isk investment. Deadspace active tank Tengu can't touch Maelstrom or Golem so I don't see what you're on about.

  • If 6-700 is a S-ton of DPS, then you are a fool. Raven with T1 torps can do that.

  • 2% per level to Gang Link bonuses is not infinitely better than Command Ships.

  • Check insurance payouts for T3s sometime br0



You want EVE to be a game of paper, paper, OMGWTFBSBLOB! What CCP likes is our current game of rock, paper, sciss0rz where you can potentially find more than one solution to a given situation and it does not always just come down to how many people can you get into ships they don't have a reason to care about losing.


OK maybe I didn't explain myself well, so I'll try again. I wasn't arguing that a Single T3 hull can be reused to be the best at everything I was trying to make the point that by training T3 you could perform a multitude of roles to at least the same capabilities of the equivalent T2 role specific ship.

So instead of having to train Recons, HACs, Logistics, Command Ship you could choose to train T3. Yes you will have to training many of the roll specific skills to be effective but you wouldn't have to train Recon V, Battlecruiser V etc.

As regards the insurance payout t2 payouts are just a ****ty and the cost of T3 is in part determined by supply and demand, if people didn't want them (to give them an edge) they wouldn't cost as much.

Final you said you supported removing unprobability, true but you then asked for a major buff to allow T3s to run 3 Warfare processors!

madmax 27
Madhatters Inc.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.05.16 10:13:00 - [2146]
 

Thinking about quitting eve over this nerf?

Please contract all your assets to me if you are.

I also accept isk.

Thanks
madmax 27

JC Anderson
Caldari
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2011.05.16 10:16:00 - [2147]
 

Originally by: Shepard Book
IBTW, what is the current plan for 514 and at this point are we looking at 2012 if we are lucky?



Seeing as dust 514 is being released for consoles only, I would hope they aren't allocating devs to work on that as opposed to all the things that need attention in Eve.

Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.05.16 11:40:00 - [2148]
 

Originally by: Incursion 1.5 Patch Notes
The capabilities of the onboard scanner have been substantially increased. The range is now 64 AU and the delay to return results is only 10 seconds.


Things are looking up. Twisted Evil

JC Anderson
Caldari
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2011.05.16 11:46:00 - [2149]
 

Originally by: Marlona Sky
Originally by: Incursion 1.5 Patch Notes
The capabilities of the onboard scanner have been substantially increased. The range is now 64 AU and the delay to return results is only 10 seconds.


Things are looking up. Twisted Evil


Yeah I just posted that on our corp forums a little bit ago. I like these patch notes. ;) Funny part is the change that will remove agent quality from all agents in the game in that patch as well.

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.05.16 12:01:00 - [2150]
 

Originally by: Resender
....

Bridges were added to help with the mad logistics requirement of the POS based sovereignty system. They should have been killed off with Dominion, when POS no longer had that role, but someone dropped the ball.
1. Higher population means more able bodies to go on patrols.
2. Capitals are getting revised in near future, expect jump/bridge ranges to take a serious hit.
3. Lag has been used/abused by everyone involved in null, some just put in the effort to analysing its effects in order to be better than the enemy when it hits.
4. T3's are also likely to be revised in near future, some are godly while others rarely see starlight. If by "mixed fleet" you mean ****fit ratting ships, then yes they will die .. same as if you dropped a bunch of combat interceptors on them.
5. Still have Ice mining last I checked. Fuel from PI is an extra for people who have already scratched their eyes out in the belts.
6. Sovereignty is likely to be revised in the near future. Dominion had the exact opposite effect of what was intended with blobs increasing, expect price to be low for entry level sov with costs ballooning as you add systems.

PS: Kick your CSM rep to push CCP into getting the null industry revamp in place ASAP.

Sabastian Cro
Posted - 2011.05.16 12:25:00 - [2151]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Edited by: CCP Soundwave on 10/05/2011 20:16:58
Originally by: Ship Type
In eve, you apparently cannot avoid PVP if you want to play with friends.

The only way to avoid PVP is to stay in the NPC corps to avoid war decs, obviously avoid low sec, and now you must avoid null sec. Previously, people who were not into PVP could go to 0.0 and avoid it all for the most part.

This is also why almost every person I've asked to come play this game has said they didn't like it.


It should be difficult to avoid PVP in nullsec. Right now that's relatively easy due to jumpbridges being so convenient and easy to use. The downside is that nullsec, an area that should be our pvp flagship, is relatively boring and lifeless when it comes to pvp, apart from territorial conquests. Hopefully this will shake it up a bit and create more opportunity for pvp.


do you even look at your own game... seriously there is pvp to be had in 0.0 all the time, but i guess when people buy 20,000 gtc's ccp will do whatever they want for them... nice one. CCP once again bends over the player base who liked that part of the game. no pat on the back from me!

knobber Jobbler
Holding Inc.
Posted - 2011.05.16 12:44:00 - [2152]
 

Originally by: Selnix
Originally by: Perinol
Originally by: SexxxSlave
Still think theres nothing wrong with the current iteration of Jump Bridges and that they DONT need to be nerfed?

Take a look at this, maybe you'll change your mind.

Current NC Jump Bridge Map



So ?

They put the time an effort in to create that. Then time an effort to fuel it. Good for them.

I would have built less JB's an got some more supercaps to defend it all.

Has all those JB's made the NC unbeatable ? The current situation would suggest not.


All of those Jump Bridges, while not making the NC completely invulnerable, has made it simply impossible for small entities in EVE to have a chance of carving out a little place in space for themselves without becoming pawns of a larger Alliance. Speaking hypothetically, should a small group who could match numbers with the people in Fountain have tried to launch an invasion, the NC and other allies of the residents would simply have hopped in gang, Jump Bridged across EVE over the course of an hour or less and simply curbstomped the crap outta the little guys then hopped right home with little or no effort. In an EVE without Jump Bridges, force projection of that type would require a commitment to either take the fight across the map or stay at home to defend the castle. Making power blocs harder to run logistically is a good thing in terms of opening up 0.0 to the little Empire pubbies that may want to come be targets for those of us who could care less about holding sov.


Changing JB's isn't going to help small groups get into 0.0 any more than completely removing them. It will take a little longer to do the curb stomping but they will never the less get kicked out. There is no way a 100 man corp is going to survive holding sov in the same region is a 3000 man alliance. They'll be used for killboard padding until they run out of ISK or decide they've had enough. No mechanics change will alter that.

Surely in that respect that is what EVE is all about, making friends, making corps, alliances, mutual protection agreements, mercenary alliances etc.

What EVE probably needs is:
More space to hold SOV in; that is of no attraction to large organisation but attractive to small ones.
More natural barriers to expansion of organisation (could be worked into the above), not stupid short term mechanic changes.
Reasons for the big alliances not to curb stomp the small ones.


Remember also that if these changes mean the large coalitions get broken up eventually, some of you guys in merc corps won't be getting those large contracts any more, the ISK won't be there (won't be there anyway now DRF can't bot) nor will the customers.

Ogogov
Gallente
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.05.16 13:25:00 - [2153]
 

Originally by: Selnix

I shall now dub myself Glenn Beck... Arguing with Idiots:



If you honestly believe that you have that the right way around then it tells us everything we need to know both regarding the quality of your character and your cognitive ability.

Ghurthe
Posted - 2011.05.16 13:39:00 - [2154]
 

I see alot of comments on unscannable set ups. Is this confirmed? Or just something rumored?

I'd love for my freshly purchased Virtue Set to be even more useful. Even though I'd be upset that even more level 5s became totally worthless to run.

Keitaro Baka
Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises
Babylon Project
Posted - 2011.05.16 14:20:00 - [2155]
 

It's a curious change for sure, on its own like this.

I understand the desire for a change in JBs and I think the 'ships with jump engines won't be able to use 'em (bar BO)' change could be implemented today.

The 1 JB per system though, is one that really should be including in a larger 0.0 tweak package.. Setting up posses is horribly annoying work, redesigning routes will probably not be a fun fun fun session either.

I've tried null sec quite a few times, even in the old days. The trouble now is the imbalance of certain ship types.. Supercap hotdrops are just so easy. Logistics titans as owned by many larger entities make sure this nerf doesn't hit them half as hard. Cloakers, unprobable t3's, ships that ignore bubbles, insta lock recons etc, make for very scary normal player transports.

Now on the one hand, I feel it doesn't hurt to make single player stuff more scary, it does however make it less interesting (again) to go to null sec unless you're in a power house huge/blob/well organized alliance. It also means that these targets will probably die out pretty soon, and you'll either find uncatchable roaming gangs (due to cloak/interdiction nullifier/etc) or huge blobs, or, small gangs with huge hotdrops available.

Yes, making null sec less safe, probably means more pvp in the short run. But a lot of this will be ganking and gate camping, which as far as pvp goes, are pretty low on the ladder for most people. Also, getting ganked or gate camped is about as fun as losing your ship in a lagfest and even less useful, so don't be surprised if after a month or two this tweak (again, on its own like this) actually lowers the amount of targets in null sec.
Between the pve nerf and this one, I just can't imagine why any casual player would keep their pve-ing in null sec, iso just in high sec. And nerfing missions in high sec, while indeed lowering the incentive to make isk in high sec, would probably lead to people just leaving eve, something CCP most definitely does not want..

All in all, this change changes very little for people with many titans, promotes gate camping with cloaky/unprobable/hotdrop set ups, forces people to do everything in a manner that makes it even harder to get a fight, makes it harder for smaller gangs to move around (well harder, just more time consuming, again annoying mostly people that can only play a couple of hours) and does absolutely nothing to stop the nap fest way of null sec, in fact, it makes it more important to have loads of caps spare and hanging around, and, indeed just buffs supercaps.

Don't get me wrong, I'm going to spend a lot of time the next few months on my pvp char, ganking and gate camping, but I'll know I'm just pushing more and more people away and will be supercap hotdropped twice a week. For me it doesn't add up to the whole 'we want to improve 0.0' but hey, I don't live there anymore..

Reidsol
Blood Covenant
Posted - 2011.05.16 15:13:00 - [2156]
 

Originally by: knobber Jobbler
Changing JB's isn't going to help small groups get into 0.0 any more than completely removing them.


U don't get the concept dude. It's about forcing small gang pvp where u don't have to go 70 jumps for 5-6 kills, and sov holders have to do some more than blobbing up for a sbu kill if they want "safe" place to live.

knobber Jobbler
Holding Inc.
Posted - 2011.05.16 15:46:00 - [2157]
 

Originally by: Reidsol
Originally by: knobber Jobbler
Changing JB's isn't going to help small groups get into 0.0 any more than completely removing them.


U don't get the concept dude. It's about forcing small gang pvp where u don't have to go 70 jumps for 5-6 kills, and sov holders have to do some more than blobbing up for a sbu kill if they want "safe" place to live.


It was a response to someones comment that it will help small groups get thier own SOV in 0.0. I think it might help small gang PVP a little but what needs to be understood is the large coalitions have several thousand active players on at any time, in many different systems and no FC really turns people down for fights when he has so many willing.

As soon as any credible threat, especially composed of those flying expensive ships are put over intel channels then the people who don't want to fight dock up or go elsewhere and those that do want a fight form and go squash them. Removing a few JB's will just slow them up a little but won't affect the numbers who'll turn up.

I think the risk v reward thing in 0.0 escapes people as well. Look at the NC vs DRF. At least two NC alliances have lost everything, rather than just a couple of ships. The reward was huge JB networks and good places to rat, the risk is they could and have lost everything. Billions of ISK in ships and infrastructure. 0.0 appears to be working just fine in that respect.

WisdomPanda
Goatriders Horde
The Scapegoats
Posted - 2011.05.16 16:29:00 - [2158]
 

Originally by: Marlona Sky
Originally by: SexxxSlave
Still think theres nothing wrong with the current iteration of Jump Bridges and that they DONT need to be nerfed?

Take a look at this, maybe you'll change your mind.

Current NC Jump Bridge Map



What is wrong with 18 alliances interconnecting 11 regions to form a state of risk free logistics and power projection Zen?


I pity you and your alliance if you can't use that map to bring maximum gankage upon your foes.
(I'm as fluffy as they come and even I see obvious choke points.)

Although don't feel too bad, it seems CCP Soundwave can't either, so you're in.... well you're in his company at least.

Vince Draken
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2011.05.16 17:31:00 - [2159]
 

Intresting to see its only NC moaning in this thread out of all the 0.0 Alliances / Groups of dudes.

Carebear heaven shall be no longer AS safe as it is now, All we need now is remove cyno jammers + becons and... Welcome back 2003 0.0:-D


Woodywilson
Posted - 2011.05.16 17:41:00 - [2160]
 

Originally by: Vince Draken
Welcome back 2003 0.0:-D




I too welcome the removal of T3 ships and moms.


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