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Jugulator Boloskarl
Posted - 2011.05.13 10:04:00 - [2011]
 

All I see is a bunch of bleeding heart bears crying over having to jump through a nasty stargate and the NC desparately trying to validate there massive blue list by trying to claim that the changes will promote more incentive to nap up.

Natalia Kovac
Minmatar
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2011.05.13 10:23:00 - [2012]
 

NC u mad? U mad NC? U mad? You seem mad.

Murauke
EvE Cookie Collective
Posted - 2011.05.13 11:03:00 - [2013]
 

Edited by: Murauke on 13/05/2011 11:07:05
Originally by: Natalia Kovac
NC u mad? U mad NC? U mad? You seem mad.


Nope not really - I think its a good move personally - a completely removal of JBs would not have impressed a lot of people no matter how you play the game. This is a better solution and balances up completely mind numbing tasks and joyment. I do not believe there are many in the NC that is against this nerf - i think more poeple are against the anomoly nerf becuase the end game of owning your own systems requires numbers and if space is sh!te then how are you to sustain yourself?

I'm overall, happy - I was more digusted with the anomolly nerf becuase in one aspect CCP without really directly saying it - Dominion was a great patch for players but a bad one for CCP becuase of the amount ISK injected in the game.

side note: makes you wonder if the deep space is really worth it.

ssgt slaughter
Posted - 2011.05.13 11:22:00 - [2014]
 

i think the one thing ccp fallout has missed is there are ready such pockets where jumpbridges have to leave the route from one network to another and there are many of them.
these pockets very seldomly see traffic if ever so what do you think is going to change.
your going to force pvp in null sec?
well how about starting with a game mechanic where a cloak ship automatically uncloaks every half an hour hmmmmmmmm.
that would force some pvp huh these ashats who sit in systems for days on end and never uncloak and a lot of tiems they come to the keyboard from thioer alt only to smack in local.
what a bunch of bull**** that is and ccp says is part of the game mechanics to sit cloaked afk in a system for days.

lance goodtrusts
Posted - 2011.05.13 11:27:00 - [2015]
 

oh on a much more joyful note this nerf will be a huge death blow to the nc.
the defensvie bridge network they have accross the front is now history its been there for a few years now .
awesome lets see mh come help razor now on a whim.
ccp fallout has done his own little bit to divide and conquer the nc awesome job on that regard.
i guess ccp is tired of the nc smack talkers in local as much as the rest of us.

Klausan
GK inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.05.13 11:55:00 - [2016]
 

I resubbed with my 5 accounts because of this change, and my friends are resubbing with atleast 30 more accounts.

MrCaptAwsm
Ghosts of Ragnarok
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.05.13 12:02:00 - [2017]
 

Originally by: knobber Jobbler
Question: Why is CCP making these changes?
Answer: To much ISK in game.

Question: Why is there to much ISK in game?
Answer: Because of Bots and RMT.

Question: Why does DRF have so many super capitals?
Answer: Botted ISK.

Question: Why is DRF outpeforming the NC
Answer: Botted ISK to pay PL and replace losses without issue.

Question: Why is DRF leaving the South to take over the North?
Answer: Because there bot accounts are being banned and they want the tech moons to make income.

Everyone else living in Null Sec knows this, the only people who seem to be ignoring the effects of ill gotten ISK is CCP. CCP then makes changes because there is to much ISK and to many capitals in null sec so they make changes affecting all players rather than dealing solely with the players who have to much ISK.

Now you're gonna say this is tears, its not, its just a game. Its pointing out that without the ill gotten gains of botting the DRF wouldn't have been able to pay PL to fight for them and wouldn't be able to field supercapital blobs at will.

I know others are also guilty of botting and RMT so its not all on DRF's shoulders but lets face facts for a moment.
death2rmt

free our JBs

Geralden
Posted - 2011.05.13 12:24:00 - [2018]
 

Now we just need to get rid of all supercapitals and T3 ships from the game.
They give unfair advantages and are not in touch with the other ships, so because it's more easy to remove than rebalance they should be deleted from the game.

Since 95% of supers have been build by RMT'ers, supers should be deleted without any form of compensation. CSAA's will still be there, and will cost 500% more to upkeep, since there will be a big influx of players needing regular capital ships beeing build, after the death of all supers.

T3 ships are too powerfull compared to their sig radius, so damage migration is not in balance with any other ships in the game.
They should be compensated, so there will be 2 racial HACs in your hangar instead of the racial t3 version.

Now, we're closer to a more open PVP enviroment.

davet517
Body Count Inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.05.13 12:28:00 - [2019]
 

Edited by: davet517 on 13/05/2011 12:36:34
Edited by: davet517 on 13/05/2011 12:29:23
Originally by: Tango Zulu


Back on topic:
If Pandemic Legion wants to speak about sovereign space related issues, let me point you to them losing NOL-M9 to TEST. Just showing for those out of the loop that PL either legitimately doesn't care about sovereignty, and thus shouldn't be speaking of sovereign space module related issues, or they are literally the worst at eve now that BoB has died, again. (Don't give me that RaidenDOT crap, you're 4 months old.)


On topic? This thread is about PL now? And, WTF? We still owned NOL? Did the Testies have, like, a cloaker in there for a few weeks to make sure the bogey man was gone before boldly conquering it?

Quote:
You say we shouldn't be safe in our space, because it's 0.0. I say you shouldn't be safer in our 0.0 because of an administrative decision. For every action, there is an equal but opposite reaction. Now you will see how it works to you:


There are only a couple of significant effects of this change.

First, you will not be able to move capitals and super-capitals from cyno-jammed system to cyno-jammed system anymore without exposing them, at least briefly, to attack by other capitals and super-capitals. So, you won't be able to move capitals and supers around between cyno-jammed systems to protect those jammers. But you're the sov expert, so you know this, right?

The second is that small groups and individuals will not be able to move in complete safety from other small groups and individuals. I'll be able to camp your choke point gates with one, or a few, and if you want to be safe, you'll have to bring more than one, or a few, to negotiate that gate.

Quote:
You want enemy sovereign space to be safer for yourselves PL, and for that I attest you are deep-pocketed cowards.


No, I'd like to be able to attack your caps and super-caps with my caps and super-caps when you move them around, and I'd like to be able to engage you with something less than a blob.


Quote:
Of course herein lies the point where someone out here goes "U mad?"


Well, not to be Captain Obvious, but you do seem pretty mad, and it seems to be keeping you from looking at this objectively.

Quote:
Some statistics (Not giving locations, you can dotlan the rest):
We have 68 systems.
We have 28 outposts.
Goonwaffe owns 13 jumpbridge links, some systems have more than one.



You have my sympathy. I've had to maintain that kind of crap myself.

Quote:
You try to make the NC look bad through speculation, we successfully make you look bad through fact. :dealwizit:


Actually, most of us just want you to keep raging so we can laugh at you. Some geezers like me, though, might take a little pity and try to talk you down out of the tree you're in. Here, kitty kitty kitty.

One thing that I'll give you is that the timing of this stinks. Making changes that are literally game changing in the middle of a major conflict isn't the greatest, but, CCP has a history of that. Goons would have been utterly crushed by Bob and friends a long time ago if remote doomsdays hadn't been taken away in the middle of a war. If that was before your time, ask around.

This isn't CCP moving away from the "sandbox" concept, at all. They just recognize that passive defenses are a little too good right now, and the balance needs to move back toward requiring players to put up an active defense.


bitters much
Nekkid Inc.
Posted - 2011.05.13 12:36:00 - [2020]
 

Originally by: ssgt slaughter
i think the one thing ccp fallout has missed is there are ready such pockets where jumpbridges have to leave the route from one network to another and there are many of them.
these pockets very seldomly see traffic if ever so what do you think is going to change.
your going to force pvp in null sec?
well how about starting with a game mechanic where a cloak ship automatically uncloaks every half an hour hmmmmmmmm.
that would force some pvp huh these ashats who sit in systems for days on end and never uncloak and a lot of tiems they come to the keyboard from thioer alt only to smack in local.
what a bunch of bull**** that is and ccp says is part of the game mechanics to sit cloaked afk in a system for days.


time for my sig again:


Rumpelstilski
Caldari
Blood Covenant
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.05.13 13:05:00 - [2021]
 

Originally by: Klausan
I resubbed with my 5 accounts because of this change, and my friends are resubbing with atleast 30 more accounts.


I can confirm I'm resubbing 20 accounts so I can afk cloak an entire region

John McCreedy
Caldari
Eve Defence Force
Posted - 2011.05.13 13:22:00 - [2022]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave

It should be difficult to avoid PVP in nullsec. Right now that's relatively easy due to jumpbridges being so convenient and easy to use. The downside is that nullsec, an area that should be our pvp flagship, is relatively boring and lifeless when it comes to pvp, apart from territorial conquests. Hopefully this will shake it up a bit and create more opportunity for pvp.


That's a load of bunkum, Soundwave. Between choke-point gate camps, hostile roams and black ops hot drops there's no shortage of opportunity for PvP. Us nullsec dwellers don't use Jump Bridges to avoid PvP, we use it to get to where it's going on faster.

Most Eve players can't power play for hours on end. If we log on and a fleet has left our only realistic way of participating in it is by using Jump Bridges to catch up. Now you want to remove that meaning more people who miss fleets leaving will be more inclined to log right off again.

You also say it's relatively lifeless and boring and yet these changes, coupled with the previous soverignty changes are forcing nullsec dwellers into a smaller concentration of systems. If you want to make the whole of 0.0 exciting for PvPers then you need to give those who live there a reason to spread out lessening the number of jumps a fleet has to go to find targets. The tighter the concentration of pilots, the harder it is for a small gang to engage in combat and the higher the likelihood of them being blobbed.

davet517
Body Count Inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.05.13 13:47:00 - [2023]
 

Originally by: John McCreedy
Stuff


John, you're about the only guy I know who can utterly contradict himself in the span of three paragraphs with a straight face. First you say this is bad 'cause people won't be able to catch up with and form teh blob. Then you say it's bad because it's going to cause blobs. Choose one argument please.

You want to be able to blob up from all over the map with your stragglers safe from being picked off, ok fine, but man up and just be pro-blob rather than trying to have it both ways.

Carcusian
Global Criminal Countdown
Posted - 2011.05.13 14:16:00 - [2024]
 

Originally by: davet517
This isn't CCP moving away from the "sandbox" concept, at all. They just recognize that passive defenses are a little too good right now, and the balance needs to move back toward requiring players to put up an active defense.


Couldn't have said it better. Give this guy a beer, it's friday.

DaSumpf
Posted - 2011.05.13 14:26:00 - [2025]
 

HELL YEAH ! Twisted Evil

I still can't decide if i like the JB nerf more than the NC tears.

Jackson Millenius
Posted - 2011.05.13 14:42:00 - [2026]
 

Edited by: Jackson Millenius on 13/05/2011 14:45:13
Ya I like this.


It WILL create more pvp in null. having to use 1 gate after 1 jumpbridge will lead to more gate camps deeper in null, and less safety for carebears.

Costs for the fuel may also decrease because there wont be as many bridges to support as well as the increased storage space.

edit:

Holy Jesus I didn't realize there was 80 pages of whine.

Talon Calais
Defilers Of The Cross
Posted - 2011.05.13 14:44:00 - [2027]
 

I know how to increase pvp interaction: encourage players to stay docked up so they can walk around in stations. Brilliant idea. Rolling Eyes

Jackson Millenius
Posted - 2011.05.13 14:46:00 - [2028]
 

Originally by: Talon Calais
I know how to increase pvp interaction: encourage players to stay docked up so they can walk around in stations. Brilliant idea. Rolling Eyes


Unless I can dry hump random ppl in stations I will get bored of it quick

ReddSky
Posted - 2011.05.13 14:46:00 - [2029]
 

Originally by: davet517

There are only a couple of significant effects of this change.

First, you will not be able to move capitals and super-capitals from cyno-jammed system to cyno-jammed system anymore without exposing them, at least briefly, to attack by other capitals and super-capitals. So, you won't be able to move capitals and supers around between cyno-jammed systems to protect those jammers. But you're the sov expert, so you know this, right?

The second is that small groups and individuals will not be able to move in complete safety from other small groups and individuals. I'll be able to camp your choke point gates with one, or a few, and if you want to be safe, you'll have to bring more than one, or a few, to negotiate that gate.

.....

This isn't CCP moving away from the "sandbox" concept, at all. They just recognize that passive defenses are a little too good right now, and the balance needs to move back toward requiring players to put up an active defense.




^^ This

Krieg Taniss
Caldari
Posted - 2011.05.13 14:58:00 - [2030]
 

Limit the number of jump bridge to 1 will literally kill small industrial who are living in null-sec. They needs a relatively safe place in order to develop an industrial activity, because they are easy prey for pirates.

It would be much more intelligent to restrict the range of jump-bridges to a constellation, because the effect will be the same, but it will also create a relatively safe space for manufacturers.

Kernel Flux
Intaki Armaments
Posted - 2011.05.13 15:06:00 - [2031]
 

So once again the people who actually USE the game mechanics that were designed by CCP are being penalized. That's just super! While you're at it limit JB's to only be able to jump cruisers or smaller sized ships. Don't want those nasty battleships going through to project undue force over large distances.

CCP you are effectively undoing man-years of effort in one fell swoop; again. This does not improve the game and seriously annoys a large portion of your player base; you know, the people who have been subscribers a long time? Your customers? The people who pay you money??




Kernel Flux
Intaki Armaments
Posted - 2011.05.13 15:29:00 - [2032]
 

Edited by: Kernel Flux on 13/05/2011 15:29:54
Originally by: John McCreedy
Originally by: CCP Soundwave

It should be difficult to avoid PVP in nullsec. Right now that's relatively easy due to jumpbridges being so convenient and easy to use. The downside is that nullsec, an area that should be our pvp flagship, is relatively boring and lifeless when it comes to pvp, apart from territorial conquests. Hopefully this will shake it up a bit and create more opportunity for pvp.


That's a load of bunkum, Soundwave. Between choke-point gate camps, hostile roams and black ops hot drops there's no shortage of opportunity for PvP. Us nullsec dwellers don't use Jump Bridges to avoid PvP, we use it to get to where it's going on faster.


Most Eve players can't power play for hours on end. If we log on and a fleet has left our only realistic way of participating in it is by using Jump Bridges to catch up. Now you want to remove that meaning more people who miss fleets leaving will be more inclined to log right off again.

You also say it's relatively lifeless and boring and yet these changes, coupled with the previous soverignty changes are forcing nullsec dwellers into a smaller concentration of systems. If you want to make the whole of 0.0 exciting for PvPers then you need to give those who live there a reason to spread out lessening the number of jumps a fleet has to go to find targets. The tighter the concentration of pilots, the harder it is for a small gang to engage in combat and the higher the likelihood of them being blobbed.




^^ this - well said!

/signed

FalconX Blast
Posted - 2011.05.13 15:36:00 - [2033]
 

I'm a PVP player, and I've always considered JBs to be the sole reason for holding sov as it gives you a "home court" advantage in PVP. JBs allow you to get in front of a hostile fleet that is invading your space as they are required to take conventional gates. Otherwise, you'll never catch them when they retreat. So what's the point of owning space if you are required to fight with the exact same tactics regardless of being in your space or hostile space? JBs are built for mixing it up for PVP in my opinion.

Ogogov
Gallente
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.05.13 15:53:00 - [2034]
 

Originally by: Klausan
I resubbed with my 5 accounts because of this change, and my friends are resubbing with atleast 30 more accounts.



- implying you have friends. elohel.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.05.13 17:03:00 - [2035]
 

Originally by: FalconX Blast
I'm a PVP player, and I've always considered JBs to be the sole reason for holding sov as it gives you a "home court" advantage in PVP. JBs allow you to get in front of a hostile fleet that is invading your space as they are required to take conventional gates. Otherwise, you'll never catch them when they retreat. So what's the point of owning space if you are required to fight with the exact same tactics regardless of being in your space or hostile space? JBs are built for mixing it up for PVP in my opinion.


Just FYI, this patch isn't removing JBs. They'll still work for what you said.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.05.13 17:05:00 - [2036]
 

Originally by: Ogogov
Originally by: Klausan
I resubbed with my 5 accounts because of this change, and my friends are resubbing with atleast 30 more accounts.



- implying you have friends. elohel.


You'd think that out of the 105 characters they can have on 35 accounts that at least one or two would be scout alts?

scarfo
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.05.13 17:06:00 - [2037]
 

Long term:

We’re currently looking into a long term plan for 0.0. I say long term, not because it’s planned for 2014, but because the work will begin this winter and hopefully go on for a while

Ccp are you telling me that after x amount of years you have no long term plan for 0.0?

I think the community as well as CCP feels that 0.0 is in need of a bit of an overhaul, so that’s what we’ll do.

Why not just ask the csm deligates what they think instead of just assuming what the community tthinks? (they are supposed to represent a broad cross section of the community)

scarfo
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.05.13 17:13:00 - [2038]
 

The starting point for that is identifying 0.0s weaknesses, and developing guidelines for what 0.0 “should” be. Luckily, the CSM will be joining us this month so the players are adequately represented. We’ll have several sessions with them and hopefully they will be able to contribute to our goal. To give you a quick peek at the type of topics we’re looking at when doing this evaluation (in no particular order):

Are you telling me that you havent allready identified 0.0s weaknesses?, that there are no guide lines allready in place? and you dont know what 0.0 should be?

Ccp it seems that youre just blindly lurching from pillar to post and that there is no overall stratagey and no sense of a cohesive direction, i hope you prove me wrong!!! typos and stupid clumsy fingers :/

Karles
Posted - 2011.05.13 17:26:00 - [2039]
 

I have some suggestions for CCP

- Remove all capitals, cynos, cynojammers, jumpbridges and Jump beacons. Whover wants ships moved has to move them by gates.

- Until you get 75m sp you will not be able to use BS's. Everyone using a drake will be banned for life.

- T2 can only be used if you have more than 4k kills. T3 only when you get 4k kills IN T2 SHIPS.

- No more nullsec, lowsec or concord. Everyone can be killed everywhere. And if you look badly someone you became automatically bountied and pursued through all universe.

- Rats from now on have 10m bounties for starter frigates and 3b for BS.

- Rat ships from now on are supplied by the former Concord ship supplier.

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.05.13 17:31:00 - [2040]
 

Originally by: scarfo
..(they are supposed to represent a broad cross section of the community)

"Supposed to" as opposed to "Are" .. huge difference. Asking the current CSM about base changes is like asking for gun control advice from a gun manufacturer Smile
PS: Read the Assembly Hall. Topics for the upcoming summit are mostly null related with very few exceptions. CCP apparently mean business this time.

Wonder if the bloat entities that have relied on mechanics to keep their space (space, not sov) safe are able to adapt .. policing the space-lanes is proper oldschool Eve and was one of the most fun parts to boot, glad its coming back.


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