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Orkasm
The Remnant Legion.
The Remnant Legion
Posted - 2011.05.11 14:29:00 - [1501]
 

Originally by: Froosh
ARE U GUYS F*CKIN SERIOUS?


^ He Mad!

Jenn aSide
Posted - 2011.05.11 14:30:00 - [1502]
 

Originally by: Gnaw LF

Then the 0.0 alliance should be able to retaliate and chase the small gangs/corps/npc 0.0 alliances away from their NPC stations. Otherwise you would have one side with risk free pvp and the other with risk everything pvp.


+1

CCP has a habit of "tweaking" one thing while forgetting how it's inter-connected with everything else. The anom nerf is a perfect example, if they'd nerf Hi-sec NPCing income too, it would be balanced, but now you can make the same isk in empire much more safely. Before the nerf there was a reason for "carebears" to go Null, now, not so much, which means fewer good targets for roaming gangs to go after.

In the past I've suggested that CCP hire a psycologist to go along with that economist, because they don't seem to understand the things that drive player behavior.

Sirus Prime
Caldari
Xero Corporation
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
Posted - 2011.05.11 14:31:00 - [1503]
 

SO, let me make sure I have this right. I can't make as much isk as a highsec carebear, and NOW I can't even move around efficiently?? Way to f**k sh*t up CCP, way to f**k sh*t up. Now that it's getting to the same level maybe I'll just go play WoW.

Note: We all realize that CCP isn't going to read this thread don't we?

PDP Kordal
Gallente
The New Era
C0NVICTED
Posted - 2011.05.11 14:32:00 - [1504]
 

DAm CCP.... one stupid nerf to o.o after another. way to go !!!!

•Is 0.0 industry currently geared to support the population living there?
hmm... lets nerf the player income and Logistics to support living there.

•Is the relationship between 0.0 and empire balanced well enough?
Hmm... no. So lets make empire better to reduce the numbers and "lag" in 0.0

•Does the current sovereignty system meet our goals?
hmmm.. it's not taking enough isk out of the game for 0.0 alliances/ corps yet

•Are there enough incentives for conflict/pvp outside sov?
hmmm.. lets reduce lag (lol) and the ablitly to defend space. by limiting jb's. more gate lag from 20 man fleets. got to wuv turkey shooting

•Are we happy with movement/player interaction?
hmmm. since when has CCP actually ####

Cellistara
Posted - 2011.05.11 14:33:00 - [1505]
 

Originally by: Sirus Prime
SO, let me make sure I have this right. I can't make as much isk as a highsec carebear, and NOW I can't even move around efficiently?? Way to f**k sh*t up CCP, way to f**k sh*t up. Now that it's getting to the same level maybe I'll just go play WoW.

Note: We all realize that CCP isn't going to read this thread don't we?


Of course, its all venting and sperging with rage. And PL trolling. Notice there's almost no responses from the one group that stands to benefit most.

Philip Jones
Gallente
Thundercats
Posted - 2011.05.11 14:33:00 - [1506]
 

Originally by: Alissa Solette
Originally by: AntISGhey
Not really, you need a password for players in your alliance to use them. So learn about the game you play.


And it's PL and CCP that are forcing you to go AFK in your scrub titan at a JB POS with password "bff" right? It has nothing to do with your members being utterly **** and totally ******ed. I can totally see that.

Imagine having to anchor a second secure POS somewhere and idle in there... oh god no... that would require an IQ above 5.


Read what I wrote. I said I was annoyed at scrubs reds using said JB pos to escape PVP. They can simply go inside the POS with the pass and warp out. If CCP wants more PVP then they should remove this.

Titans being killed at POS was more about them being ECM burst before they logged. Were they idiots for using pos with passwords, I wasn't there so don't know their choice at the time. CCP decided this mechanic wasn't as intended and changed it. The jump bridge change doesn't affect me, remove them all. First thing I learnt in nul sec was how to travel about way before bridges.

Froosh
Incidental Damage
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2011.05.11 14:33:00 - [1507]
 

Edited by: Froosh on 11/05/2011 14:34:10
Originally by: Orkasm
Originally by: Froosh
ARE U GUYS F*CKIN SERIOUS?


^ He Mad!


Got that right sir! Looks like somebody at CCP got surprise ********* in their once a year endeavor into 0.0, FASCISTS!!

Profanity filter, eh? ***'s = butt_secks

Jenn aSide
Posted - 2011.05.11 14:33:00 - [1508]
 

Originally by: Sirus Prime


Note: We all realize that CCP isn't going to read this thread don't we?


Pretty much, but Venting is fun lol.

Megy Feel
V.L.A.S.T.
V.L.A.S.T
Posted - 2011.05.11 14:33:00 - [1509]
 

Quote:
pretty much my standard reply to boring trolls, some trolls are amusing :D

Your previous post looks more like an il-adjusted teenager then a 4yo.. so i guess ur 1 up on me hehe


There is no need for me to troll you, you just troll yourself with your pathetic moaning and tears.
Good to hear i'm amusing the scrubs...

Feyleaf
Posted - 2011.05.11 14:35:00 - [1510]
 

Originally by: Megy Feel
Quote:
pretty much my standard reply to boring trolls, some trolls are amusing :D

Your previous post looks more like an il-adjusted teenager then a 4yo.. so i guess ur 1 up on me hehe


There is no need for me to troll you, you just troll yourself with your pathetic moaning and tears.
Good to hear i'm amusing the scrubs...



Whatever dude.. just keep believing in urself :D

Levioux
Posted - 2011.05.11 14:36:00 - [1511]
 

Originally by: Froosh
ARE U GUYS F*CKIN SERIOUS?


+1

KFenn
Percussive Diplomacy
Posted - 2011.05.11 14:36:00 - [1512]
 

ITT: Unholy 0.0 carebear rage. Seriously, 0.0 should be a PvP area, not somewhere to farm sites to make your pretty wallet numbers numbers grow bigger. Don't like it, farm Level 4s in Highsec, or learn to PvP.

GJ on the plan to finally nerf carebear 0.0 CCP, it's long overdue.

Ghurthe
Posted - 2011.05.11 14:36:00 - [1513]
 

Originally by: Cellistara
Originally by: Sirus Prime
SO, let me make sure I have this right. I can't make as much isk as a highsec carebear, and NOW I can't even move around efficiently?? Way to f**k sh*t up CCP, way to f**k sh*t up. Now that it's getting to the same level maybe I'll just go play WoW.

Note: We all realize that CCP isn't going to read this thread don't we?


Of course, its all venting and sperging with rage. And PL trolling. Notice there's almost no responses from the one group that stands to benefit most.


Which groups stand to benefit?

Rene Lacoste
Luxury Yacht Club
Posted - 2011.05.11 14:39:00 - [1514]
 

Originally by: Levioux
Originally by: Froosh
ARE U GUYS F*CKIN SERIOUS?


+1


+2

Ah'line Too'Dahsun
Posted - 2011.05.11 14:40:00 - [1515]
 

I think its too soon to say if this is a good or bad change. Like most changes CCP has pushed through recently. There is a pretty large gap between what they say they want and the actual outcome.

It was my understanding the issue was force projection. Being able to bring a very massive fleet across a large region of space. By making the fuel bays larger, They will only increase the size of fleets able to use the network.

Do you really think a 500 man fleet is going to care about a few neuts camping a gate between two jump bridges? Not really.

At best this will slow down a large fleet by 20 or so minutes travel time, while increasing the overall capacity of the size of the fleet. So how long until CCP realizes this and ushers in a new change?

Also, what ever happened to the sandbox? I cannot help but feel that no matter what happens the player base is going to get screwed by having their supply lines cut off during a war.

I think I could live with the 1 jb per system, If they doubled the range of the JB, Seems reasonable to me.

Just for all the PL trolls in this thread. I think CCP should seirously take a look at titan bridges. Are they really needed? Should they be allowed to be activated inside of POS shields?

I think if you are going to **** with jump bridges. It's high time that you remove the ability for a titan to open a portal from within pos shields, same for black ops.

More risk, More pew. :)

Shawna Gray
Gallente
Posted - 2011.05.11 14:40:00 - [1516]
 

Originally by: KFenn
ITT: Unholy 0.0 carebear rage. Seriously, 0.0 should be a PvP area, not somewhere to farm sites to make your pretty wallet numbers numbers grow bigger. Don't like it, farm Level 4s in Highsec, or learn to PvP.

GJ on the plan to finally nerf carebear 0.0 CCP, it's long overdue.


0.0 is not a pvp arena its a place for empire building.

Cellistara
Posted - 2011.05.11 14:40:00 - [1517]
 

Originally by: KFenn
ITT: Unholy 0.0 carebear rage. Seriously, 0.0 should be a PvP area, not somewhere to farm sites to make your pretty wallet numbers numbers grow bigger. Don't like it, farm Level 4s in Highsec, or learn to PvP.

GJ on the plan to finally nerf carebear 0.0 CCP, it's long overdue.


I disagree, you want ganking and small gangs which is what lowsec is for. Null should be about large fleets (50-100 people) and massive wars (thousands of ships at one time). Stop trying to make 0.0 boring, if you want to fight, get 50 people and head out. Don't whine and call for nerfs just because you don't have enough friends to do things on our level.

Abraxus Lazzurs
Posted - 2011.05.11 14:41:00 - [1518]
 

Ahh, the amount of tears shed in this thread alone is gonna be enough to get me through the winter months. I think this is a great idea and lets face it, it's not exactly a game ender. It's just people out in 0.0 who've become too used to jumping on to a JB network and getting where they want to go.

PS - Once again, all these beautiful, beautiful tears.

KFenn
Percussive Diplomacy
Posted - 2011.05.11 14:43:00 - [1519]
 

Originally by: Shawna Gray
Originally by: KFenn
ITT: Unholy 0.0 carebear rage. Seriously, 0.0 should be a PvP area, not somewhere to farm sites to make your pretty wallet numbers numbers grow bigger. Don't like it, farm Level 4s in Highsec, or learn to PvP.

GJ on the plan to finally nerf carebear 0.0 CCP, it's long overdue.


0.0 is not a pvp arena its a place for empire building.


It's a place for said empires to fight empires. That's how it's always been intended. You wanna build an empire, sure, build one. But if it all comes tumbling down because you can't defend it, then too bad. That's just the way EVE works.

Yeep
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.05.11 14:44:00 - [1520]
 

Originally by: Philip Jones

If game mechanics are fine, why are so many PL happy about this change in the future?


Because PL is 10% old money so rich the game has effectively become meaningless and 90% sycophantic puppies who follow them around mindlessly parroting their opinions as fact.

Fix Lag
Posted - 2011.05.11 14:45:00 - [1521]
 

Soundwave, you clearly don't realize that if we are in an alliance and have an intel channel, we're still going to be pretty damn safe regardless of whether or not we use a gate.

It's our empire, we police it. We provide our own security. The whole point of this being a sandbox game is that you don't interfere with what players make.

Which, coincidentally, is why giving everyone SEVEN ****ING DAYS TO REROUTE THE ENTIRE NETWORK ****ING STUPID. Of course, given your previous hate for the NC after they burned your characters' home to the ground I am not surprised the change came on such short notice.

AntISGhey
Posted - 2011.05.11 14:46:00 - [1522]
 

CCP should just go the whole hog and remove JB completely along with titan portals, which are more broken than JB ever were.

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2011.05.11 14:46:00 - [1523]
 

Originally by: KFenn
ITT: Unholy 0.0 carebear rage. Seriously, 0.0 should be a PvP area, not somewhere to farm sites to make your pretty wallet numbers numbers grow bigger. Don't like it, farm Level 4s in Highsec, or learn to PvP.

GJ on the plan to finally nerf carebear 0.0 CCP, it's long overdue.

So what you are saying is that you want a pvp arena? And you call others carebears? Lmao.

This (and previous changes) does indeed what you apparently want, 0.0 only as place for pvp and where you need to make your ISK in high sec (probably one of the major reasons for CCP to do such things, selling more high sec alt accounts). Please do remember that that means LESS easy ganks by your blob (if you camp with 10 men a gate and gank a hauler it is much more of a blob than when 100 ships attack your 10 pvp ships), since short term you might get a bit more people, until they simply leave for high sec. (And I read here people saying we claimed the same thing after anomaly nerf, well it also happened after anomaly nerf. Here people in system significantly lowered. People actually undocked and doing something lowered enormously, easily with a factor 3-4.)

But I see the goal of 0.0 to actually live there, not to import everything from high sec, not to be forced to use high sec alts for your income, to be relatively independent of high sec, in other words, empire building. This achieves the opposite.

Shawna Gray
Gallente
Posted - 2011.05.11 14:47:00 - [1524]
 

Edited by: Shawna Gray on 11/05/2011 14:48:21
Originally by: KFenn
Originally by: Shawna Gray
Originally by: KFenn
ITT: Unholy 0.0 carebear rage. Seriously, 0.0 should be a PvP area, not somewhere to farm sites to make your pretty wallet numbers numbers grow bigger. Don't like it, farm Level 4s in Highsec, or learn to PvP.

GJ on the plan to finally nerf carebear 0.0 CCP, it's long overdue.


0.0 is not a pvp arena its a place for empire building.


It's a place for said empires to fight empires. That's how it's always been intended. You wanna build an empire, sure, build one. But if it all comes tumbling down because you can't defend it, then too bad. That's just the way EVE works.


sighRolling Eyes
Yes pvp is a part of empire building. But the only reason why one bothers with building it is to get places to make isk. Small gangs are irrelevant when it comes to building or tearing down the empires. Atm its not really worth it to be a grunt in a 0.0 alliance.

FellRaven
Minmatar
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.05.11 14:51:00 - [1525]
 

Originally by: rcs619
The amount of b'awwing and doom-saying in this thread is amazing.

You guys DO realize that they aren't removing jump bridges from the game, right? They're still going to be there. You can still have a large, far-reaching jump bridge network, you'll just only be able to have one jump bridge per system. All it will mean is reshuffling and optimizing the jump bridges already in place. Instead of being able to jump bridge to the system right next door, the bridge network may just be limited to connecting key systems together, or connecting various constellations. You'll still be able to travel around fairly quick, this will just mean that you'll need to travel through a stargate between every jump bridge.

Honestly, it isn't even that much of a change, and most of the people in this thread are acting like the sky is falling.

At worst, this change won't do anything. At best, it will encourage more skirmishes at the gates between jump bridge systems, and lead to more opportunities for everyone to PvP.

For all the people talking about how it will be a ganker's paradise, just look at the current jump bridges. The only effective way to camp a jump bridge is with bombers. Ganking is all there is. You sit there, and hope to catch some lone hauler or battlecruiser. This will encourage people to not travel alone, and maybe even create more instances of the travel fleets coming into contact with the roaming skirmish gangs that are out looking for kills.

Also, all you NC people that are complaining, imagine how many billions of isk will be freed up if the NC sheds some of its extraneous jump bridges. That's more isk for ship reimbursment, POS fuel, ammo, and so on. Assuming it doesn't wind up just padding someone's pocket.

Come on people, stop running around and screaming like some kind of streetcorner bum with a tinfoil hat, and maybe this thread could get a decent discussion going.


So why not wait to apply these changes until after our little SOV war? Timing is everything you know. CCP have not offered any explanation of why they need to do this now and not in say 2 months time.

bitters much
Nekkid Inc.
Posted - 2011.05.11 14:51:00 - [1526]
 

Originally by: knobber Jobbler
Originally by: Alissa Solette
Edited by: Alissa Solette on 11/05/2011 11:13:09
Originally by: Miso Hawnee
DRF pro PVP? Which server are you playing eve on? GG you are out of touch...


I didn't say they're pro anything but they're definitely out-perfoming you guys at every turn. They also seem to be fielding a lot more supers then you guys... come to think of it perhaps there is some causal relationship between those two statements?



Question: Why is CCP making these changes?
Answer: To much ISK in game.

Question: Why is there to much ISK in game?
Answer: Because of Bots and RMT.

Question: Why does DRF have so many super capitals?
Answer: Botted ISK.

Question: Why is DRF outpeforming the NC
Answer: Botted ISK to pay PL and replace losses without issue.

Question: Why is DRF leaving the South to take over the North?
Answer: Because there bot accounts are being banned and they want the tech moons to make income.

Everyone else living in Null Sec knows this, the only people who seem to be ignoring the effects of ill gotten ISK is CCP. CCP then makes changes because there is to much ISK and to many capitals in null sec so they make changes affecting all players rather than dealing solely with the players who have to much ISK.

Now you're gonna say this is tears, its not, its just a game. Its pointing out that without the ill gotten gains of botting the DRF wouldn't have been able to pay PL to fight for them and wouldn't be able to field supercapital blobs at will.

I know others are also guilty of botting and RMT so its not all on DRF's shoulders but lets face facts for a moment.



One of the few who read the daily Plaque Black newsletter about the state of the BFFism.

Free advice to you: Resist to read it.


Avar Davola
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.05.11 14:52:00 - [1527]
 

all these juicy tears, never stop being yourself CCP

Rumpelstilski
Caldari
Blood Covenant
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.05.11 14:53:00 - [1528]
 

Edited by: Rumpelstilski on 11/05/2011 14:55:04
Is 0.0 industry currently geared to support the population living there?

All meaningful 0.0 industry is geared toward cap and supercap production, all other stuff is bought in Jita, because it's THAT easy, even for non-sov holding entities living in deep 0.0, jump freighters, capital proliferation and disposable cyno accounts are solely responsible for that

Is the relationship between 0.0 and empire balanced well enough?

They don't have a relationship tbh, risk vs reward.... Rewards in 0.0 surpass those of lvl4 whoring, but only if you take advantage of it. Belt npcing won't get you far, titan plexing will.

Does the current sovereignty system meet our goals?

No, far too static. Only entities that lost sov in the last year where

a) obliterated through overwhelming force in all timezones through consistent grinding
b) failed to pay bill
c) were griefed into not wanting that space anyway

Also, pretty much all invasions start from npc stations, the lack of npc stations in certain parts of space contribute greatly to their static sov history.

I'd suggest that rfing a station into it's first cycle (drop shields) makes the station a free port, this will give more incentive for dying entities to continue fighting after stations fall (to get assets out), will allow invading entities a forward beachead and will force the defenders to react on the first rf as if it mattered anything.

Are there enough incentives for conflict/pvp outside sov?

There are incentives, there aren't opportunities. Locals always have a logistical advantage and are capable to deploy in any part of their domain in too short time to have any meaningful small gang fights before blobs arrive.

Are we happy with movement/player interaction?

Depends on play style, those who want to move and interact do so, those who do not have all the game mechanics in place to not move and not interact with each other, sov benefits made joining awful bloated 0.0 alliances little more then npc corps.

bitters much
Nekkid Inc.
Posted - 2011.05.11 14:54:00 - [1529]
 

Originally by: FellRaven

So why not wait to apply these changes until after our little SOV war? Timing is everything you know. CCP have not offered any explanation of why they need to do this now and not in say 2 months time.


What does it matter, in 2 month another war will be on and your JB network is history.



KFenn
Percussive Diplomacy
Posted - 2011.05.11 14:54:00 - [1530]
 

Originally by: Furb Killer
So what you are saying is that you want a pvp arena?


I never said 'Arena'. I don't want some system where fixed numbers of pilots fight other pilots, unrestricted PvP is best. But jumpbridges effectively ruin any sort of fleet maneuvering. Trying to move your fleet around a constellation becomes meaningless if the enemy can just zip light-years away in an instant, and removes some of the more tactical side of fleets.

Back in my day we had to warp to gates at 15, and we had no jumpbridges. We managed just fine, with some smart piloting and general common sense.


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