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Bren Keilloram
Posted - 2011.05.11 07:24:00 - [1231]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave

It increases traffic in areas that are more accessible to players outside your alliance. It's a given that a POS with guns, shields and a jumpbridge to another friendly POS is inherently safer than a stargate. While it's certainly possible to kill people at POSs, it's a bit more complex than just roaming around, killing people in open space.


Well, actually killing ppl at a jb pos is easier than killing them at some gate is, mostly because they feel safe at a jb pos and they aren't.

WarriorTooth
Posted - 2011.05.11 07:24:00 - [1232]
 

Edited by: WarriorTooth on 11/05/2011 07:25:01
Originally by: Bren Keilloram
Well, actually killing ppl at a jb pos is easier than killing them at some gate is, mostly because they feel safe at a jb pos and they aren't.

Originally by: Bren Keilloram
Since someone can be ganked easily even in highsec (and without a wardec), I'm quite missing the point here.
A jumpbridge network add a layer of mobility to 0.0, not a layer of safety.

Subtle troll, +rep

Bren Keilloram
Posted - 2011.05.11 07:29:00 - [1233]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave

A wide range of options were considered, among those, different levels of guns on the POS. Everything from changing the fitting requirements to stripping them entirely. At the end of the day, I'm not entirely thrilled about basing smaller scale pvp around POSs. I really like the idea of having it out on the open, at a "neutral" structure like gates. It's much more visible than having to track down a POS that will still give your opponent an advantage.


Well, since jb noetworks map are quite public, there isn't any effort needed from a raiding party to track down a jb pos location.

Mithfindel
Zenko Incorporated
Posted - 2011.05.11 07:29:00 - [1234]
 

Edited by: Mithfindel on 11/05/2011 07:30:00
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Liang
Does this mean that you might take a look at current moon goo locations and/or T2 production pipelines?

-Liang


Yes, those are most definately prime candidates. Things like trit and datacore supplies, production slots etc.


Moving more things to exploration, perhaps? Admitted, having "jackpot" sites appear too often might not be desirable, but having sites with okay amounts of resources with a "jackpot" site appearing every once in a while might be interesting. These would of course need be monitored, and if needed, balanced. Which should be doable, as they're essentially dynamic resources. Some work for the good doctor to play god?

Some random thoughts about resources and small objectives

E: I fail at quoting.

Lruce Bee
Posted - 2011.05.11 07:30:00 - [1235]
 

Edited by: Lruce Bee on 11/05/2011 07:31:48
Originally by: Bren Keilloram
Originally by: CCP Soundwave

It increases traffic in areas that are more accessible to players outside your alliance. It's a given that a POS with guns, shields and a jumpbridge to another friendly POS is inherently safer than a stargate. While it's certainly possible to kill people at POSs, it's a bit more complex than just roaming around, killing people in open space.


Well, actually killing ppl at a jb pos is easier than killing them at some gate is, mostly because they feel safe at a jb pos and they aren't.


And all we really want is roam around killing in open space.. like Soundwave.. we dont want ganking to be complex affairs at bridges? lol
Actually the rest of the game we just threw in to keep some killboard padding around?. :D

DanMck
Amarr
Rionnag Alba
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2011.05.11 07:32:00 - [1236]
 

Originally by: Sister Bliss
A baby-step in the right direction, just like the anomaly weighting with trusec. Unfortunately these are such pitifully small changes in isolation and nowhere near far-reaching enough to make 0.0 the fascinating prospect that is needs to be.

CCP appears to have lost the ability to surprise and delight us and instead wheels out minor tweaks to a broken universe. What eve needs is bold and revolutionary changes.


exactly what i was going to post YARRRR!!

Bren Keilloram
Posted - 2011.05.11 07:34:00 - [1237]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave

I'd still aruge that a defender has much better terms than an attacker. You can still use jumpbridges, you have intel channels, shorter routes to change ships/fittings, shorter routes to getting reinforced.


Well, actually the attackers have the very same intel channels (they only need to figure out the name, you know).
And I won't be so sure about the shorter route to get reinforcement parts.

FellRaven
Minmatar
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.05.11 07:35:00 - [1238]
 

Originally by: Rumpelstilski
Fellraven, my good KOS buddy of old, don't fret about it, the changes will probably affect DRF a lot more then the NC considering the long logistic routes that they have and you don't.

Besides, CCP can't make or don't make policies based on player internal politics.


Hi Rumple surprised you remember me Very Happy, in th long-term you are probably right but in the short term the timing is really sus.

Ron Bacardi
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.05.11 07:36:00 - [1239]
 

First I was Shocked then I was Very Happy and then i read the thread and went Laughing and now I cant wait to start YARRRR!!

Keep up the good work CCP

Bren Keilloram
Posted - 2011.05.11 07:37:00 - [1240]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Zamiq
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Ay Liz
F
On to the great plan you have. Like others already pointed out, we haven't seen your outline for 0.0 and only see you taking away things that make our lives easier. Maybe you should add something new.. Incentives to live in 0.0 as you called it. Taking away all the good stuff (anomalies, now convenient JB networks) and making our lives miserable until you decide to add something new in 2 years doesn't sound very appealing to anyone.


Won't be two years. You'll hear the early parts of it before this month is up.


Hear being the key word. We wont actual see it for two years if ever. Half your content is either undeveloped or underdeveloped.


Now you're just inventing timeframes. You'll see changes this winter.


yeah, as in CCP notorious "soon TM"

still waiting for the mothership here.

Lruce Bee
Posted - 2011.05.11 07:40:00 - [1241]
 

7 days.. not acceptable..

Bren Keilloram
Posted - 2011.05.11 07:43:00 - [1242]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
No disagreement. Better resource distribution, more pvp goals etc.


Does this mean that you might take a look at current moon goo locations and/or T2 production pipelines?

-Liang


Yes, those are most definately prime candidates. Things like trit and datacore supplies, production slots etc.


Well, for the trit part, unless CCP introduce some way to get a lot of it in 0.0 only (something like ten times the amount per hour that you can get in empire), I don't really think more people will harvest it than those that are already mining it now.
I'm talking about or a new capital class mining ship with a mining capacity equal of ten times that of the hulk or about a new kind of ore that yeld 10 times more trit than the veldspar.

SioGyapot HUN
Posted - 2011.05.11 07:44:00 - [1243]
 

This is very nice!!!!

PVP back to the game, gate camp back to the game!

CCP Great!!!

\o/

Zargyl
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
Posted - 2011.05.11 07:46:00 - [1244]
 

Another short time nerf for those trying to eke out an existence far away from Empire right after the anomaly nerf. And then only some vague statement that there are long term plans but not specifying anything. To me (and I havenít yet used a jump bridge ever so I am not really affected mind you)it looks like the only goal of this blog was to make customers disillusioned about the game they pay for.

Please CCP do invest your time into working to add something to the game not taking away things. E.g. what about the promised additional sov-upgrades? What about treaties? What about comets and mining them? What about T3 frigates, what about ... (list goes on).

Kronossan
Bellum Esca
Posted - 2011.05.11 07:47:00 - [1245]
 

Originally by: Random Comment
from this action I gather that CCP supports the Gate Camp as the preferred method of PvP.



Bren Keilloram
Posted - 2011.05.11 07:48:00 - [1246]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
No disagreement. Better resource distribution, more pvp goals etc.


Does this mean that you might take a look at current moon goo locations and/or T2 production pipelines?

-Liang


Yes, those are most definately prime candidates. Things like trit and datacore supplies, production slots etc.


For the moon goo part, you know, the oil industry to increase the oil output in real life:
1) found multiple ways for getting more oil out of an oilfield
2) look constantly for more eve unconventional sources of oil

The amount of moon goo that can be estracted from a moon is almost the same since eve went live 8 years ago (with minor changes, for example since 8 years ago we got some new regions).
I think it's time to add more resources, not to shift the placement of the current ones (for example).

Bren Keilloram
Posted - 2011.05.11 07:53:00 - [1247]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave

Jumpbridges were an original part of the little things, far before we got the go-ahead for a 0.0 review. They're also really time sensitive (need time to reconfigure the networks). It also functions independently, compared to many other larger changes.


Yes, but they bend with all the other stuff so, from this point of view, they aren't an isolated system.

Miso Hawnee
Posted - 2011.05.11 07:55:00 - [1248]
 


n4d444
Volition Cult
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2011.05.11 07:56:00 - [1249]
 

I guess CCP soundwave plays the game as roaming griefer so he boosts his game?

I understand that you need to nerf the sov holding people to have it easier for you.

Bren Keilloram
Posted - 2011.05.11 07:57:00 - [1250]
 

Originally by: FellRaven
Edited by: FellRaven on 11/05/2011 07:03:04
NO CHANGES UNTIL CURRENT SOV WAR ENDS

THE TIMING OF THIS CHANGE IS APPALLING. A CHANGE OF THIS TYPE IN THE MIDDLE OF A MAJOR SOV WAR IS TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE AS IT HUGELY DISADVANTAGES ONE SIDE ONLY


It's obvious which Alliances have most DEVs are in, we can't win fairly left cheat should be CCPs motto



Well, it's no secret that when a DRF campaign start, the NC will end up fighting both DRF and CCP.
It's not the first time.

oodin
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.05.11 07:58:00 - [1251]
 

Excellent changes CCP - good job!

On the whole the way EVE has evolved since I started playing in 2005 has improved greatly. Back then running freighters with escorts out to 0.0 was truly tiresome so the advancements made with Carriers, then jump bridges, then jump freighters has made life a little too safe for nullsec dwellers.

Something as complex as EVE is never going to be easy to balance and I feel a lot of people don't appreciate this. Just as the races are constantly being balanced ( I remember when the Tempest was the only BS worth flying ) I consider these a step in the right direction.

Now make it so that anyone can use a jump bridge and they are not connected to POSes please ( ok maybe a little over balanced to the bad guys but it would be a lot of fun! )

"You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you canít please all of the people all of the time" - keep up the good work CCP!


Bailian Moxtain
NibbleTek
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.05.11 07:58:00 - [1252]
 

great idea ccp, keep it up. And look at all the bears cryingugh

WisdomPanda
Goatriders Horde
The Scapegoats
Posted - 2011.05.11 08:01:00 - [1253]
 

I'm liking all the trolls telling us how we use JB's to thwart their nefarious deeds. It would even make me all hot and bothered, were it true.

But that's OK, keep believing that JB's are the only thing stopping you from being 'forced' to stare at gates/undock for 5h strait. I'm sure when these changes do go live and the "omgah nullsec bears" learn to adapt (all be it slowly) to your new (actually old) pro-pvp tactics, you'll eventually realise it wasn't the JB's that ruined small gang PvP. Or you won't, which would be equally unsurprising.

Also loving the stupidly outdated references to "how it use to be" like the landscape is at all the same. :bittervet: more, :bittervet:

On the bright side I guess, I now have a semi-decent excuse to install a Jump Clone into a Rorq. Yay?

Waarph
Kernel of War
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.05.11 08:02:00 - [1254]
 

Edited by: Waarph on 11/05/2011 08:07:14
Edited by: Waarph on 11/05/2011 08:05:25
In my humble opinion thoses change are ok except the one jump bridge per system rule.

Simply because it makes life of single-account and not-yet-capital pilots (by will, time or isk's) in 0.0 extremely difficult.

It does not affect in the slightess way the multi-account capital pilot at all on the other hand.

So the main effect is raising the barrier of entry to 0.0. Once again I may even say.

Now, I have no doubt that shaking up 0.0 is a necessity. Just that your solution with Jump bridge is not the right one. It may be good with other changes but just not on its own. I could see it as a good one if there are more tiny npc 0.0 spread out everywhere, like those in foutain or delve (because this is the only thing that actually creates pvp, unlilke the rest of the proposals so far)... hint hint hint :)

So , I also feel you should come with a comprehensive plan regarding 0.0 instead of small partial breaking changes. I feel the pain of the logistic dudes setting up posses etc...

Zey Nadar
Gallente
Unknown Soldiers
Posted - 2011.05.11 08:04:00 - [1255]
 

Edited by: Zey Nadar on 11/05/2011 08:08:43
Some things that need clarifying:

the JB change will be in one months time, not in one week. Next week they will remove the jumpcapable ships from being able to use JBs.

Second: this change will increase overhead costs of maintaining JB network, as there will be more systems in which iHub is needed.

Consider a JB chain of two bridges, currently 3 systems. now an extra system is needed at midway, introducing 300 Misk/month extra costs. The total costs increased is not quite double the amount, but pretty hefty sum regardless.

David Hassan
Posted - 2011.05.11 08:04:00 - [1256]
 

Edited by: David Hassan on 11/05/2011 08:12:49
Edited by: David Hassan on 11/05/2011 08:07:23
This is a nice start. Next I think you need to look at Super capital spamming. People move in super fleets, only to log off and disappear from game. No required logistics, no beachheads, just phantom force projection. Please make it so that Ships never disappear from space, and force super cap spammers to maintain the infrastructure for their doomsday weapons. Super capitals are way to easy to use, people fly them like battleships. Holder alts are cheesy, if you want godlike power then you should actually have to put forth some ::effort::

Also, remove the ability for capital ships to use cloaking devices, something that large (especially supers which in the lore bend gravity wells) shouldn't be possible to cloak.

Miklas Laces
A.N.A.R.C.H.I.C.A
Posted - 2011.05.11 08:09:00 - [1257]
 

It's a very very small step in the right direction after years of big steps in the wrong direction.

Too little, too late.

debbie harrio
Posted - 2011.05.11 08:10:00 - [1258]
 

Originally by: Lucious Shakiel
So, if jump drive capable ships can't use a bridge.....how the hell are we supposed to get these ships in or through a cyno jammed system?


Out of all the tears in this thread, this comment caught my eye as worthy of further ridicule.

If you do not know how to get caps into a cyno jammed system when jump bridges are not available to do so, get back into a rifter.


This change is excellent, good for small gang PVP and makes 0.0 just that little bit more dangerous, competent players will not let it affect them but the supercoalitions with their minion blobs will have to up their game.

Good stuff and if I am honest, not enough.

Prof Fail
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.05.11 08:10:00 - [1259]
 

Why ffs nullsec is getting more and more nerfed by ccp? Dominion introduced alot new features with the aim to attract more people into 0.0 space.

CCP introduced high sovbills and high fees for every upgrade in a certain system.

To compensate ccp ctreated the option to improve the space with juicy upgrades (anomalies, plexes, sites, wormhole stuff). Just a few were really usefull....most were crap...but at least the anoms were a nice addition and made space attractive...made up for the bills.

The big problem is now that ccp removes -step by step- all this nice features. They took away the only good thing dominion brought to us: The anomalies. And now they want to make 0.0 live even more unattractive by removing JB networks and reducing the effectivity of cynojammers.

The only things which remain are obviously the far too high sov and upgrade bills. At the end Dominion ist just a huge moneysink without granting something useful in exchange. Just bills and alot useless upgrade with no real advantage.

What will be the future? Will ccp remove even more features from player owned space? When is it not longer worth to own space? Isnt it alot easier to just base out of NPC space and **** expensive player owned space?

You cant just always nerf nerf nerf nerf without giving something back.

Where ist the candy?

Give us some usefuls upgrades in exchange. There are enough ideas around. upgrades which allow to probe cloakers, gateguns, upgrades which create the chance of officer spawns, even in ****ty space.....etc. etc. CCP ffs give us something in exchange for our bills we have to pay? GIVEEE not REMOVE!

Dirty Little Secrets
Posted - 2011.05.11 08:18:00 - [1260]
 

Originally by: David Hassan

This is a nice start. Next I think you need to look at Super capital spamming. People move in super fleets, only to log off and disappear from game. No required logistics, no beachheads, just phantom force projection. Please make it so that Ships never disappear from space, and force super cap spammers to maintain the infrastructure for their doomsday weapons. Super capitals are way to easy to use, people fly them like battleships. Holder alts are cheesy, if you want godlike power then you should actually have to put forth some ::effort::

Also, remove the ability for capital ships to use cloaking devices, something that large (especially supers which in the lore bend gravity wells) shouldn't be possible to cloak.



Excellent Idea. The only thing better than bear tears is bitter vet tears. Think how much some of the elite will cry if they actually have to log in for more than 2 hours. OMG I actually have to support an infrastructure...I just want to do drive by shootings all day... YARRRR!!


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