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Sister Bliss
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.05.10 23:25:00 - [871]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave

We'll be looking at 0.0 this winter. We're hammering down the principles we'll work by as we speak, and they're being reviewed by the CSM. Once they've had their chance to give feedback in person (later this month), I'll happily post the groundwork for everyone to see. From there on, detailed designwork and implementation.


What the **** have you been doing for the past 18 months? No, I mean seriously.

psycho freak
Minmatar
Advanced Planetary Exports
Intergalactic Exports Group
Posted - 2011.05.10 23:25:00 - [872]
 

Edited by: psycho freak on 10/05/2011 23:26:09
hmmm

a good day indeed

to all the whiners

its not like we never had jb's b4

npc 0.0 as no jb do you see them so called small allainces crying

adapt or die or go join another game

yo ccp while your at it why not change moon goo

make it random or some sh!t

good job ( for a change ) ccp

Giselle Garner
Posted - 2011.05.10 23:26:00 - [873]
 

Originally by: Molly Roger
I haz and idea. Before we encourage more and larger fleet fights...lets fix fleet fight lag!!!!

Yeah I went there. Had problems shooting at targets with 300 in system the other day, neither fleet was a drake blob either so we cant blame missiles.


U are lame, and your family doesn't know it :)

Patty Patrick Patterson
Posted - 2011.05.10 23:26:00 - [874]
 

Originally by: StuRyan
Nerf 0.0 by Nerfing ISK making opportunities and now Nerf how people move around 0.0 and in general how Jita will be seeded once people go **** that.

JEEEEEZE do you actually want people to live in 0.0?



GB2WOW

I hear there are goons there aswell, but i'm not sure they cry as hard.

CCP Soundwave


C C P Alliance
Posted - 2011.05.10 23:26:00 - [875]
 

Originally by: Sister Bliss
Originally by: CCP Soundwave

We'll be looking at 0.0 this winter. We're hammering down the principles we'll work by as we speak, and they're being reviewed by the CSM. Once they've had their chance to give feedback in person (later this month), I'll happily post the groundwork for everyone to see. From there on, detailed designwork and implementation.


What the **** have you been doing for the past 18 months? No, I mean seriously.


Incursions and little things.

GKO
Posted - 2011.05.10 23:26:00 - [876]
 

I already wrote that for the last changes, but mööööööh:

Soundwave is a cool guy with lots of ideas, but his consultants tell him bull****. I personally invite you to fly with me through 0.0 to see the areas, where changes are needed. We will move through lowsec, please use a nano fit (hit me up if you need help).

anyway, great priorisation from CCP here, this was the change most of us needed right now. Please buff hel next.

Sovox
Amarr
Mercurialis Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2011.05.10 23:27:00 - [877]
 

Edited by: Sovox on 10/05/2011 23:37:55
Edited by: Sovox on 10/05/2011 23:31:45

Welcome to gate camp and super caps online.. Sounds exciting Neutral

I did not know using dictors with infinite point and warp scrams with a 99.999999% chance of hitting while ganking on a gate was uber PVP. And i am talking as both being the invader or defender both options suck and are boring!

Good job CCP for removing yet another strategic part of 0,0 warfare and instead of making war more strategic by removing choke points you created it so that all we have to look forward to is being traffic controlled and ganked on a gate while not being able to quick respond to invaders or try to trap supers or red fleets..

No worries dude been through this before with S.O.E and i figure the average good MMO's peak is 4 to 6 years before the development takes a huge dump. You guys peaked just before Dominion and its been crap ever since then.

You just cant go around changing systems and mechanics in a sand box type of game. I mean really whats the point of building anything when the rules keep changing. EVE was once a pretty stable game now its just an average run of the mill buggy crap mmo with a whole bunch of unfinished systems such as factional War and WH space, and with an ever changing set of rules like any other typical theme park MMO. Whats next Battle Grounds and War Fronts? lol

BTW thanx for fixing Gallente with the same urgency you are nerfing ****!

Peace out good luck with the Vampire MMO you ***s!!!





Tango Zulu
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.05.10 23:27:00 - [878]
 

Originally by: WisdomPanda
So why rush this now?

Edit: Let me rephrase that; Why not bundle it? Why no grace period?


Because it's easier to seek forgiveness than permission, and the CSM will be seeing them soon.

Cellistara
Posted - 2011.05.10 23:27:00 - [879]
 

Originally by: psycho freak
Edited by: psycho freak on 10/05/2011 23:26:09
hmmm

a good day indeed

to all the whiners

its not like we never had jb's b4

npc 0.0 as no jb do you see them so called small allainces crying

adapt or die or go join another game

yo ccp while your at it why not change moon goo

make it random or some sh!t

good job ( for a change ) ccp


Yes because a 0.0 NPC corp that takes only 2 jumps to get from one side of their space to another has a reason to complain about travel.

Giselle Garner
Posted - 2011.05.10 23:28:00 - [880]
 

Originally by: psycho freak
Edited by: psycho freak on 10/05/2011 23:26:09
hmmm

a good day indeed

to all the whiners

its not like we never had jb's b4

npc 0.0 as no jb do you see them so called small allainces crying

adapt or die or go join another game

yo ccp while your at it why not change moon goo

make it random or some sh!t

good job ( for a change ) ccp


More coward PVP'ers under a 1000+ member alliance XD
This thread is full of it :P

Feyleaf
Posted - 2011.05.10 23:29:00 - [881]
 

Originally by: Rainus Max
I have no objection to the change if its part of a larger plan that everything slots together however its just another 'lets have another prod at the 0.0 souffle' we'll if you keep prodding the whole bloody thing with crash around you.

DONT implement this as a stand alone alteration, there is simply NO reason to do it other than to **** off sov holding alliances.


nice timing too..

Im Super Gay
Posted - 2011.05.10 23:30:00 - [882]
 

Originally by: StuRyan
Nerf 0.0 by Nerfing ISK making opportunities and now Nerf how people move around 0.0 and in general how Jita will be seeded once people go **** that.

JEEEEEZE do you actually want people to live in 0.0?


Based on the recent and upcoming 0.0 changes, CCP doesn't want people to live in 0.0.

While we're at it lets remove warp to 0 to increase pvp opportunities.

Giselle Garner
Posted - 2011.05.10 23:31:00 - [883]
 

Edited by: Giselle Garner on 10/05/2011 23:31:34
I found out what they want!
They want to destroy the big alliances!
If there are no so easyness for JB's, that large alliance won't accumulate 500 pilots in a 0.0 system, so part of the alliance will change of alliance.

so.... ===>>>> more PVP

EDIT: the more ironic is the stupid CEO of the largest one giving support to this XD

Mr LaForge
Posted - 2011.05.10 23:31:00 - [884]
 

Edited by: Mr LaForge on 10/05/2011 23:31:21
Quote:
"The first change is the removal of ships with jumpdrives from the jumpbridge eligibility list. This isn’t very dramatic and long overdue. Basically if your ship has a jumpdrive, it can’t use the jumpbridge (Black Ops ships are exempt from this rule). This change will go in on the 17th of this month."


Ok, then let me end my cyno whenever I want without waiting 10 minutes doing nothing.

Levarr Burton
B0rthole
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.05.10 23:31:00 - [885]
 

Originally by: Weaselior


Could you comment on the reasoning behind nerfing 0.0 now, and then revamping it "later" rather than a coherent overall change that makes sense and addresses the region in a unified way - instead of this "make bad change, promise fix in six months", especially given CCP's extremely bad record on delivering things promised in advance.


Skipping a dozen or so pages here, but I would like to see this answered. CCP has, frankly, a horrible track record when it comes to feature iteration. FW is crap, PI was pushed out the door both behind schedule and under finished, the Dominion Sovereignty updates were never completely implemented, T3s haven't been fully implemented (lol still can't refit @ POS), Lowsec is still waiting for a reason to exist, Incarna has been on the way for at least 4 years, new ship skins started rolling out last year, and so far we have 5 that I'm aware of, POSes still suck, etc. Hearing "later" from CCP has a long history of meaning "we'll never get around to that."

Regardless of the concrete pros and cons surrounding the impending nerf, it is simply irresponsible to make such a drastic change so suddenly (not enough notice to even remap existing networks). It is especially irresponsible when not only are the changes which are supposed to offset the nerf and provide incentive to once again live in 0.0 sov space not ready for prime time, but there are no concrete ideas about what such a buff should entail, how it will be implemented or when, if at all, we will see the nullsec buff(s). "9 months" will likely get pushed closer to a year (at CCP's rate, 15 years before all the mechanics are implemented and function properly) where sovereign null security space will be less lucrative than highsec without having any concrete advantages of accomplishing the feat of motivating and organizing hundreds, if not thousands, of individuals to work towards a common goal.

Saying "we should have mini-objectives, and hopefully we will" is bullhit. It's saying "we have no plan to make sovereign 0.0 space a viable and desirable place to live, but we might think of something, sometime, maybe."

As for 0.0 being "stale" and not having "enough PvP," I'm going to once again call bull****. The largest war in EVE's history is currently playing out between the DRF & associated groups and the NC/CF/BFFs. On top of that, billions of isk worth of ships are killed every week in nearly every inhabited nullsec region. Anyone who can't find PvP simply isn't trying.

All in all, regardless of my opinion on this change, I get the feeling that CCP either has a master plan for the game which they will implement without any consideration of its actual effect on the player base, or they have no good plan and are willing to throw any half-assed idea onto TQ without proper vetting and testing and, once again, no consideration or understanding of its actual effect on the population in the affected areas. Either way, it is disheartening.

On top of that, there are dozens of pieces of unfinished business which ought to be higher on the priority list than tweaking nullsec logistics. Like taking care of that backlog of issues which remove all credibility of the "this winter" "9 months" and "soon" statements. Frankly, with CCP's track record of feature implementation, 0.0 grunt-level players in sov space have just been dealt a kick in the teeth, and there is no guarantee that any improvement will ever materialize. There is even less hope that any "improvement" will be functional on delivery, or within a reasonable time-frame of that delivery.

StuRyan
Posted - 2011.05.10 23:32:00 - [886]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave


It should be difficult to avoid PVP in nullsec. Right now that's relatively easy due to jumpbridges being so convenient and easy to use. The downside is that nullsec, an area that should be our pvp flagship, is relatively boring and lifeless when it comes to pvp, apart from territorial conquests. Hopefully this will shake it up a bit and create more opportunity for pvp.


You boys ****ed that up when you speed nerfed.

Miso Hawnee
Posted - 2011.05.10 23:32:00 - [887]
 

Originally by: Sovox
You guys peaked just before Dominion and its been crap ever since then.



People have been screaming this for years now. CCP is 3 little monkies that hear no, see no, speak no evil.

**** em, stop feeding them with money and let them starve. Iceland doesn't need the money anyway.

Svennig
Posted - 2011.05.10 23:33:00 - [888]
 

Originally by: Sister Bliss
Originally by: CCP Soundwave

We'll be looking at 0.0 this winter. We're hammering down the principles we'll work by as we speak, and they're being reviewed by the CSM. Once they've had their chance to give feedback in person (later this month), I'll happily post the groundwork for everyone to see. From there on, detailed designwork and implementation.


What the **** have you been doing for the past 18 months? No, I mean seriously.


Space Barbies. AKA passing off World of Darkness development time as an important upgrade of the EVE experience.

Soundwave: still waiting on an answer as to why we can't delay this and evaluate it in the wider context of the proposed winter changes.

Raivi
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.05.10 23:34:00 - [889]
 

This is an excellent start, and I'm also very glad to hear that you are focusing on iterating other aspects of 0.0 in the coming months.

Don't worry about the naysayers, 0.0 survived fine before jump bridges, and it will survive fine with the occasional gate in between them.

Molly Roger
Posted - 2011.05.10 23:35:00 - [890]
 

Quote:
Originally by: Molly RogerI haz and idea. Before we encourage more and larger fleet fights...lets fix fleet fight lag!!!!

Yeah I went there. Had problems shooting at targets with 300 in system the other day, neither fleet was a drake blob either so we cant blame missiles.



U are lame, and your family doesn't know it :)


Yeah I know but someone should have said it.

Quote:

Quote:"The first change is the removal of ships with jumpdrives from the jumpbridge eligibility list. This isn’t very dramatic and long overdue. Basically if your ship has a jumpdrive, it can’t use the jumpbridge (Black Ops ships are exempt from this rule). This change will go in on the 17th of this month."



Ok, then let me end my cyno whenever I want without waiting 10 minutes doing nothing.


It's called self destruct.

Rainus Max
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.05.10 23:36:00 - [891]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Sister Bliss
Originally by: CCP Soundwave

We'll be looking at 0.0 this winter. We're hammering down the principles we'll work by as we speak, and they're being reviewed by the CSM. Once they've had their chance to give feedback in person (later this month), I'll happily post the groundwork for everyone to see. From there on, detailed designwork and implementation.


What the **** have you been doing for the past 18 months? No, I mean seriously.


Incursions and little things.


So are we right to assume you dont want 'static' 0.0 entities? You want everyone to pew 24/7?

Do ANY of you actually play in 0.0 for any length of time greater than one hour?
Do you have ANY idea how much effort it takes to run the infrastructure alliances have to run?

Dont fart around with 0.0 in little piddly patches your only going to muck things up even further. If you REALLY have to have a patch in a week give fighter bombers the DPS of a frig with 2 round of ammo.

Giselle Garner
Posted - 2011.05.10 23:36:00 - [892]
 

Originally by: Levarr Burton

bleh...Lowsec is still waiting for a reason to exist...bleh


Lowsec is the real light for us the true believers. The real path of getting really rich. The high-sec habitants don't want to risk his ISK there, the 0.0 habitants find stupid to live there. And meanwhile we still get the most part of the ISK in the game XD

The secret won't be revealed to you, as only true believers can find the path, but don't suffer for us. We are really well :)

Miso Hawnee
Posted - 2011.05.10 23:37:00 - [893]
 

Originally by: Giselle Garner
Originally by: Levarr Burton

bleh...Lowsec is still waiting for a reason to exist...bleh


Lowsec is the real light for us the true believers. The real path of getting really rich. The high-sec habitants don't want to risk his ISK there, the 0.0 habitants find stupid to live there. And meanwhile we still get the most part of the ISK in the game XD

The secret won't be revealed to you, as only true believers can find the path, but don't suffer for us. We are really well :)


The secret is Farming LP in faction war since nobody actually plays it anymore. Busted.

Smoking Blunts
Posted - 2011.05.10 23:38:00 - [894]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Sister Bliss
Originally by: CCP Soundwave

We'll be looking at 0.0 this winter. We're hammering down the principles we'll work by as we speak, and they're being reviewed by the CSM. Once they've had their chance to give feedback in person (later this month), I'll happily post the groundwork for everyone to see. From there on, detailed designwork and implementation.


What the **** have you been doing for the past 18 months? No, I mean seriously.


Incursions and little things.


why are you not added all changes at once, so we can see your grand plan?
as a nerf with no boost is a NERF

Ben Derindar
Dirty Deeds Corp.
Posted - 2011.05.10 23:38:00 - [895]
 

This thread grew 23 pages in the time it's taken me to read it, hehe. Good times.

While I don't think the changes have gone far enough (nerf cap ship jump ranges and jump clone timers please), it's a step in the right direction. Hell, keep going like this and I might even be tempted to re-sub.

Indy Rider
Amarr
Firebird Squadron
Terra-Incognita
Posted - 2011.05.10 23:39:00 - [896]
 

Edited by: Indy Rider on 10/05/2011 23:39:40
Originally by: Svennig


What the **** have you been doing for the past 18 months? No, I mean seriously.


Space Barbies. AKA passing off World of Darkness development time as an important upgrade of the EVE experience.



And in true CCP style, they'll release Dust on the 360 a month before the new xbox comes out.

I'm all for nullsec change, the problem is that its consistant nerfs to Grunts. With anom nerfs and the risk incereasing, its just going to make grunts think twice about spending the harder to get isk in 0.0 on crappy little gang pvp while also fighting in the big wars.

Im Super Gay
Posted - 2011.05.10 23:39:00 - [897]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave

Jumpbridges were an original part of the little things, far before we got the go-ahead for a 0.0 review. They're also really time sensitive (need time to reconfigure the networks). It also functions independently, compared to many other larger changes.

Announce this 1 week before the winter patches then Rolling Eyes

Alice Katsuko
Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2011.05.10 23:39:00 - [898]
 

Edited by: Alice Katsuko on 10/05/2011 23:40:59
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Sister Bliss
Originally by: CCP Soundwave

We'll be looking at 0.0 this winter. We're hammering down the principles we'll work by as we speak, and they're being reviewed by the CSM. Once they've had their chance to give feedback in person (later this month), I'll happily post the groundwork for everyone to see. From there on, detailed designwork and implementation.


What the **** have you been doing for the past 18 months? No, I mean seriously.


Incursions and little things.


Is this where we learn that you spent 72,000 man-hours making slightly lighter icons for BPCs?

The complaint is not so much about the nerf to jump bridges, but that all we've seen so far are haphazard nerfs which make null-security space less desirable to live in. Aside from vague promises about making unspecified improvements to nullsec in the future, we've seen virtually no attempts at making life in nullsec better or easier. Even small changes such as decoupling jump bridge and POS passwords seems to be too much to ask.

Considering the terrible track record CCP has accumulated regarding fulfilling promises, I hope you understand that most of us would drink battery acid before trusting you to actually deliver on all that nice content like revamped starbases and improved sovereignty mechanics.

StuRyan
Posted - 2011.05.10 23:40:00 - [899]
 

Originally by: Levarr Burton
Originally by: Weaselior


Could you comment on the reasoning behind nerfing 0.0 now, and then revamping it "later" rather than a coherent overall change that makes sense and addresses the region in a unified way - instead of this "make bad change, promise fix in six months", especially given CCP's extremely bad record on delivering things promised in advance.


Skipping a dozen or so pages here, but I would like to see this answered. CCP has, frankly, a horrible track record when it comes to feature iteration. FW is crap, PI was pushed out the door both behind schedule and under finished, the Dominion Sovereignty updates were never completely implemented, T3s haven't been fully implemented (lol still can't refit @ POS), Lowsec is still waiting for a reason to exist, Incarna has been on the way for at least 4 years, new ship skins started rolling out last year, and so far we have 5 that I'm aware of, POSes still suck, etc. Hearing "later" from CCP has a long history of meaning "we'll never get around to that."

Regardless of the concrete pros and cons surrounding the impending nerf, it is simply irresponsible to make such a drastic change so suddenly (not enough notice to even remap existing networks). It is especially irresponsible when not only are the changes which are supposed to offset the nerf and provide incentive to once again live in 0.0 sov space not ready for prime time, but there are no concrete ideas about what such a buff should entail, how it will be implemented or when, if at all, we will see the nullsec buff(s). "9 months" will likely get pushed closer to a year (at CCP's rate, 15 years before all the mechanics are implemented and function properly) where sovereign null security space will be less lucrative than highsec without having any concrete advantages of accomplishing the feat of motivating and organizing hundreds, if not thousands, of individuals to work towards a common goal.

Saying "we should have mini-objectives, and hopefully we will" is bullhit. It's saying "we have no plan to make sovereign 0.0 space a viable and desirable place to live, but we might think of something, sometime, maybe."

As for 0.0 being "stale" and not having "enough PvP," I'm going to once again call bull****. The largest war in EVE's history is currently playing out between the DRF & associated groups and the NC/CF/BFFs. On top of that, billions of isk worth of ships are killed every week in nearly every inhabited nullsec region. Anyone who can't find PvP simply isn't trying.

All in all, regardless of my opinion on this change, I get the feeling that CCP either has a master plan for the game which they will implement without any consideration of its actual effect on the player base, or they have no good plan and are willing to throw any half-assed idea onto TQ without proper vetting and testing and, once again, no consideration or understanding of its actual effect on the population in the affected areas. Either way, it is disheartening.

On top of that, there are dozens of pieces of unfinished business which ought to be higher on the priority list than tweaking nullsec logistics. Like taking care of that backlog of issues which remove all credibility of the "this winter" "9 months" and "soon" statements. Frankly, with CCP's track record of feature implementation, 0.0 grunt-level players in sov space have just been dealt a kick in the teeth, and there is no guarantee that any improvement will ever materialize. There is even less hope that any "improvement" will be functional on delivery, or within a reasonable time-frame of that delivery.


I can only assume they think it will cause conflict..... I remember reading that before, when was that?????? OH about 5 weeks ago!

Giselle Garner
Posted - 2011.05.10 23:41:00 - [900]
 

Edited by: Giselle Garner on 10/05/2011 23:40:54
Originally by: Miso Hawnee

The secret is Farming LP in faction war since nobody actually plays it anymore. Busted.


I was being ironic as saying it "the secret". All the pleople know it. However, missioners don't want to come. And 0.0 think that's coward task (as all missioning tasks) and won't come.
And about no one playing anymore, better for me. Don't you think?


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