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Lawke Eislen
Caldari
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:17:00 - [721]
 

Originally by: Cynthia Ysolde
Originally by: ModeratedToSilence

Sounds like your missing the point and going for personal attacks instead of staying on topic. The point of my counter to CCP Soundwaves post is to illustrate to him he is missing a large part of the picture regarding how eve is actually played.
Going back to my original post in this thread - CCP need to change the way alliances interact to change 0.0. Tinkering with jumpbridges is going to have effects they haven't really thought about. My prediction is that these changes in isolation will make 0.0 less dynamic.
In regards to my personal opinion: I think my rapier will find a nice jumpbridge route sit within 2 au of a gate for 3-4 days afk after which I'll see who is stupid enough to ignore my presence. Probably easiest to do this in an alliance where I have a clean api alt to give me eyes on whats going on.
To respond to your baiting regarding big boys: Under the current development of CCP holding space is the most difficult thing to do. Try it out some time - oh wait your "big boys" dont have the attention span to do that.


As I've said before, holding space isn't and shouldn't be for everyone. Some alliances can cut it, some can't, and some don't want to even try because they're just not interested in it.

If your space can easily be shut down by a few guys who have access to your intel channels, maybe you should be a little stricter with recruitment and not use the "pack anyone with a pulse into this corp" strategy that seems so popular these days. Spies can be pretty easy to catch if you know what to look for.


You mean like a good old forum leak?

Miso Hawnee
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:18:00 - [722]
 

Originally by: Amber Villaneous
Sov upgrade nerf and now this, are you wanting people to unsub and do something more enjoyable?


//thread

ecoske
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:18:00 - [723]
 

dumb half-arsed change that wasn't on CSM radar - add that to last months anom nerf and they'll need bigger stargates to let the hordes out of 0.0. (Go on CCP - show some STATS and some DATA to prove us wrong not woolly b******t)

Reducing rewards and increasing risk/tedium travelling in 0.0 encourages more high-sec missioning - nothing else

Anom changes mean you go through system after system with no-one in them

Ganking PvE ships and haulers on gates between JBs.... that's your vision for achieving leet small gang pvp??

Svennig
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:18:00 - [724]
 

Originally by: Tango Zulu
Seeing as you agreed it's safety, ("Thatís not to say youíre invincible when using jumpbridges, but if youíre in an alliance with an intel channel and a semi-decent jumpbridge network, you have a pretty overwhelming degree of safety") not convenience, ("On the other hand, we don't want to take jumpbridges out, since they provide a great way of reaching whatever content youíre using quickly.") you're trying to nerf: if you really do think this will make a difference, why not balance it out for the everyman and make it so the singular JB per system has a slightly farther reach. say, one or two more light years?


Here's another decent idea. Thread's full of em. Problem is they aren't coming from CCP.

jm24
CRICE Corp
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:19:00 - [725]
 

This is a fantastic change. Now halve all jump drive range and double supercap aggression timers. Require supercarriers to siege to deploy fighter bombers and were golden.

CheckingAmarr
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:19:00 - [726]
 

Originally by: Cynthia Ysolde

As I've said before, holding space isn't and shouldn't be for everyone. Some alliances can cut it, some can't, and some don't want to even try because they're just not interested in it.


I guess with 'tried and failed' we know where PL stands in this hierarchy:
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Pandemic_Legion/stats

Kalissa
Sacred Templars
RED.OverLord
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:20:00 - [727]
 

All these tears over jump bridges. I've been playing Eve since '03 long before JB's were in the game and most of the people here are all moaning and groaning about the the fact you'll actually have to do some gate travel and actually *shock* TAKE A RISK!!

Stop crying like little girls, take it on the chin. Null sec is supposed to be risky thats the whole point.

And yes I do use JB's and it WILL make my life harder, but I fully support the changes.

Versuvius Marii
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:20:00 - [728]
 

Posting in a NC/DC nerf thread. Just taste those tears.

Shawna Gray
Gallente
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:21:00 - [729]
 

Edited by: Shawna Gray on 10/05/2011 22:21:21
Originally by: Kalissa
All these tears over jump bridges. I've been playing Eve since '03 long before JB's were in the game and most of the people here are all moaning and groaning about the the fact you'll actually have to do some gate travel and actually *shock* TAKE A RISK!!

Stop crying like little girls, take it on the chin. Null sec is supposed to be risky thats the whole point.

And yes I do use JB's and it WILL make my life harder, but I fully support the changes.


You have played since 03 and you dont have a cap or a noob scout?

jm24
CRICE Corp
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:22:00 - [730]
 

And make webs 75% thanks

Cellistara
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:22:00 - [731]
 

Originally by: Kalissa
All these tears over jump bridges. I've been playing Eve since '03 long before JB's were in the game and most of the people here are all moaning and groaning about the the fact you'll actually have to do some gate travel and actually *shock* TAKE A RISK!!

Stop crying like little girls, take it on the chin. Null sec is supposed to be risky thats the whole point.

And yes I do use JB's and it WILL make my life harder, but I fully support the changes.


I though everyone in your area had 10 bot accounts all flying supers, you must be new then.

WisdomPanda
Goatriders Horde
The Scapegoats
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:23:00 - [732]
 

Originally by: Innominate
Originally by: xttz
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Svennig


A "neutral" structure which imposes its own mechanics onto fleet fights that take place at it? Are you high right now? You're forcing gate games onto people. If you did it at an ungunned POS it would be a much more neutral fight.


A POS where the defender has access to the shields and has exclusive right to bringing in reinforcements through the bridge? No, we'll definately not agree that a gate is as safe as a friendly POS, even without the gun.

You seem curiously intent on putting all of the risk onto defenders rather than attackers.

Why shouldn't a roaming gang be baited and attacked by reinforcements, after the territorial owner went to the effort of setting up, fueling, and paying the tower?
0.0 wasn't designed for consensual pvp. You are not entitled to a fair fight where everyone lines up 10 ships of equal type to fight like gentlemen. You'll get both ganks, fair fight and massive cap ship fights, but there is no guarantee you can always chose exactly which one. We're not an instanced game that offers battlegrounds and I don't see any reason we should be.



Boosh.


Just ****ing this.

Aren't we suppose to be a in a sandbox anyways?

Fix Lag
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:23:00 - [733]
 

THANKS FOR BALANCING SUPERCAPITALS

ALSO, THANK YOU FOR DECIDING TWO AND A HALF YEARS AFTER DOMINION THAT MAYBE SOVEREIGN NULLSEC NEEDS ANOTHER BUNCH OF ****ING NERFS AND ****-UPS TO GO WITH THAT EXPANSION




I swear to God you people could not suck any more at game designing if you actually tried.

Cal Drid
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:23:00 - [734]
 

Can we fix null-sec's dependency on the Jita economy BEFORE we make it harder to access Jita?

I'm also a whole lot less interested in ever flying a carrier if I straight up can't bring it into a system with a cyno jammer... or is the point of this simply to get rid of cyno jammers?

deathpain
Gallente
The Graduates
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:23:00 - [735]
 

Last update for 0.0 you nerfed isk making in null, now you are nerfing transport, what next ? you really know how to upset your customers. Dont fix what isnt broken and look at fixing what is...

Word of warning: You have thousands of customers in null sec and they aint happy.

HairyButter
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:23:00 - [736]
 

1 vote = cancel 1 account and state reason.

thats the only way ccp will care what a player thinks.

Zzyzx Corionus
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:23:00 - [737]
 

Hey CCP, the PvP aspect of this game is the only thing that's keeping people in 0.0 and much of the subscription base here, the goal is to improve the PvE aspect and more goddammed travel times is not what we need.

darius mclever
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:24:00 - [738]
 

+1

I was always wondering why it should be more dangerous doing all the jumps through lowsec than traveling through nullsec.

Cellistara
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:25:00 - [739]
 

Edited by: Cellistara on 10/05/2011 22:25:45
Originally by: HairyButter
1 vote = cancel 1 account and state reason.

thats the only way ccp will care what a player thinks.



I cancelled 4, well not really cancelled since I use GTCs. Not doing that again, say bye bye to em CCP.

Im Super Gay
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:25:00 - [740]
 

Originally by: Kalissa
All these tears over jump bridges. I've been playing Eve since '03 long before JB's were in the game and most of the people here are all moaning and groaning about the the fact you'll actually have to do some gate travel and actually *shock* TAKE A RISK!!

Stop crying like little girls, take it on the chin. Null sec is supposed to be risky thats the whole point.

And yes I do use JB's and it WILL make my life harder, but I fully support the changes.

Risk vs. Reward. With the anom nerf and now the impending jump bridge nerf, CCP has made 0.0 more risky and less rewarding. Why does anyone bother to live in 0.0 these days?

Zamiq
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:26:00 - [741]
 

Originally by: Kalissa
All these tears over jump bridges. I've been playing Eve since '03 long before JB's were in the game and most of the people here are all moaning and groaning about the the fact you'll actually have to do some gate travel and actually *shock* TAKE A RISK!!

Stop crying like little girls, take it on the chin. Null sec is supposed to be risky thats the whole point.

And yes I do use JB's and it WILL make my life harder, but I fully support the changes.



I like mindless sheep like you. "I pay 14$ a month to have no content and to spend a great portion of my time working on logistics because thats how it was done when I started playing the game years ago. No, I dont want my money to go towards new content, nerfs is where its at".

Freyus Bargem
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:26:00 - [742]
 

Instead of being all gung ho about the 0.0 changes , why not ask the players what they want first... You know, the people who are paying your wages?
This apparent change and many others you have in the pipeline, I'll call it now, will lose you plenty of customers over the current months.

0.0 is supposed to be for the "experienced" players, make it more rewarding for them to spend their time out there, rather than sat in empire grinding lvl 4's.
That is the only change that should be made. The rest isn't broke so don't fix it ffs

Feyleaf
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:27:00 - [743]
 

Originally by: Kalissa
All these tears over jump bridges. I've been playing Eve since '03 long before JB's were in the game and most of the people here are all moaning and groaning about the the fact you'll actually have to do some gate travel and actually *shock* TAKE A RISK!!

Stop crying like little girls, take it on the chin. Null sec is supposed to be risky thats the whole point.

And yes I do use JB's and it WILL make my life harder, but I fully support the changes.


ofcoz u do... nice timing too

Ay Liz
Sacred Templars
RED.OverLord
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:27:00 - [744]
 

Edited by: Ay Liz on 10/05/2011 22:31:14
From a Sov-Battle PoV the thing about capitals not being able to use jump bridges sounds very interesting to me. I don't think this one is bad. I would still allow Jump Freigthers to use them though.

From a roaming PoV the change to only allow 1 JB per system sounds quite good. You rarely see people travelling by gates these days.
But from a Logistics PoV the change seems horrible. I am really uncertain here..

And like others already pointed out, we haven't seen your outline for 0.0 and only see you nerfing the **** out of 0.0. Maybe you should add something new WHILE you nerf stuff.. Incentives to live in 0.0 as you called it.
Taking away all the good stuff and making our lives miserable until you decide to add something new in 2 years doesn't sound very appealing to anyone.

And there's still that thing with supercarriers making dreads obsolete and generally being overpowered. Maybe you should do something about that next.

Cellistara
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:28:00 - [745]
 

Originally by: darius mclever
+1

I was always wondering why it should be more dangerous doing all the jumps through lowsec than traveling through nullsec.


The way I thought it worked was lowsec was the land of pirates, go at extreme risk, and 0.0 was the land of empires, where the massive wars happened, not the place where everyone spins in station because all the gates are camped and every sanctum and grav is filled with stealthbombers or IN t3s like ccp is trying to make it.

Celfea Dur
The Flying Tigers
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:29:00 - [746]
 

I've been living in nullsec for about 2 years...I moved out to nullsec within the first 2 months of starting the game. My entire EVE gaming experience has been based in nullsec with ventures into highsec only as needed to sell my wares and occasionally pick up new toys.

For my entire time in EVE, one of the most repeated "goals" for CCP has been to encourage more players and player interaction in nullsec.

I am not a cap ship pilot, so if I travel more than 6 jumps from my home system, I will generally head for the nearest jumpbridge entries. I routinely take 8 jumpbridges in order to save from making 12 stargate jumps. In every system, I am at risk from being reported in enemy intel by cloaky observers and if they have done their due diligence, they know where those jumpbridges are and have at least those 8 chances to burn me into dust. Yes, it is true that if every other system jump must be through a stargate, the enemy will have the opportunity to setup a proper gate camp without a hostile POS tower breathing down their neck...but as you have already stated -- with the simple use of an intel channel to monitor enemy actions, I can either route around the camp, contract my packages to a jump pilot, or just decide to log off and not even attempt to make the trip at that point in time.

The jumpbridge limitation will not solve the problem you think it will solve. Jumpbridge networks are not used in the ways that you believe they are used. Jumpbridge networks are conducive to forming up large fleets, but they are not used in large fleet navigation. Jumpbridge networks are conducive to pilots dispersing back to their home systems after a large fleet roam or engagement, but again, they are not used for large fleet navigation. Jumpbridge networks are conducive to supporting everyday logistics and small gang navigation and for rapid response to a sudden threat or opportunity. ie: If a fellow alliance member puts out a call because his jump freighter is tackled by a small pvp gang, his only lifeline is how far away the nearest jumpbridge is. If the nearest jumpbridge is more than 3 jumps from his location, no one will be able to come to his aid. Did you know that most jump freighter pilots avoid established jumpbridge networks BECAUSE they do not provide enough safety and because they are too visible to enemies?

The people who think that the Northern Coalition is crying over this issue because their huge fleet blobs will be lined up at the stargates afraid to jump into a waiting gate camp really have no idea what it means to live in a true alliance.

The only people who use jumpbridges on a day-in and day-out basis are the newer guys, like me. Who are spending their EVE time ratting in one system, collecting lewt, managing their planetary interactions, and hauling all of their goods back to a waiting hauler floating at a pos tower. And at the end of my game session, I jump to the hauler and warp out to the jumbridge so I can safely jump back to my home system and dock up with my hard-earned rewards. On the off chance that one of my corp mates (or even myself for that matter) finds themselves in a face-to-face player interaction with a hostile pilot, the jumpbridge "network" is the only thing in the game which may facilitate that isolated incident into becoming a true multi-player event. Without the jumpbridge "network" providing for fast response of small gangs and individual pilots, all you get is more small-scale skirmish warfare and pilot ganking.

You will not break large-scale alliances or drastically affect force projection with these changes.

But one thing you will guarantee yourself -- you will slap hugely popular and highly organized large-scale core player bases with an unexpected difficulty and hugely unpopular pain in the ass game mechanic with no expressed purpose and the only visible side effect of being that it makes the Norhtern Coalition-haters love you.

Good job.

CCP Soundwave


C C P Alliance
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:29:00 - [747]
 

Originally by: Ay Liz
F
On to the great plan you have. Like others already pointed out, we haven't seen your outline for 0.0 and only see you taking away things that make our lives easier. Maybe you should add something new.. Incentives to live in 0.0 as you called it. Taking away all the good stuff (anomalies, now convenient JB networks) and making our lives miserable until you decide to add something new in 2 years doesn't sound very appealing to anyone.


Won't be two years. You'll hear the early parts of it before this month is up.

Mc Dick's
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:30:00 - [748]
 

Edited by: Mc ****''s on 10/05/2011 22:33:31
This Post may seem a bit cynical but its only ment to be constructive, I hope you take it into consideration.

This is a horrible Idea - youve effective doubled the cost of owning jumpbridges with a menial reward. I dont know about what alliance your thinking of but most of the jumpbridge I have seen are EMPTY because they get used too much(wheres the suggestion I made about jumpbridge tolls to help pay for sov and fuel cost)doubling the fuel capacity just means pos fulers have to carry more fuel to refuel bridges and they now have to move through 4 solarsystems instead of 2 (thats not very helpfull)


It wouln't be so bad if the range of jumpbridges were increased since most bridge systems are inplace only to act as a transit point so now the alliances that can afford to have 300+ jumpbridge systems at 300M a month each are left unaffected and the other alliances (without Technetium) are SOL. 2 bridges per system is fine (maybe an extra upgrade is needed to allow 2 per system) but you dont see that.

at what part of this Post dominion Sov system are there gonna be new strategic features that we were not able to do back in 2007. maybe you need to spend less time working on how the boobs on your new avatar are to revealing or not bouncy enough and work on something usefull.

look forward to seeing your next "feature" id like to see more planning and less of this of southparks margaritaville bailout stratagy if im allowed links this is the one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QWyg50K4MU

Shawna Gray
Gallente
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:30:00 - [749]
 

Originally by: Im Super Gay
Originally by: Kalissa
All these tears over jump bridges. I've been playing Eve since '03 long before JB's were in the game and most of the people here are all moaning and groaning about the the fact you'll actually have to do some gate travel and actually *shock* TAKE A RISK!!

Stop crying like little girls, take it on the chin. Null sec is supposed to be risky thats the whole point.

And yes I do use JB's and it WILL make my life harder, but I fully support the changes.

Risk vs. Reward. With the anom nerf and now the impending jump bridge nerf, CCP has made 0.0 more risky and less rewarding. Why does anyone bother to live in 0.0 these days?


I guess you are supposed to use that 2nd account for missions in highsec and then roam with the other one through 0.0

Miso Hawnee
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:30:00 - [750]
 

Originally by: Fix Lag
THANKS FOR BALANCING SUPERCAPITALS

ALSO, THANK YOU FOR DECIDING TWO AND A HALF YEARS AFTER DOMINION THAT MAYBE SOVEREIGN NULLSEC NEEDS ANOTHER BUNCH OF ****ING NERFS AND ****-UPS TO GO WITH THAT EXPANSION




I swear to God you people could not suck any more at game designing if you actually tried.



QFT


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