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Akinetopsia
ElitistOps
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:07:00 - [361]
 

Edited by: Akinetopsia on 10/05/2011 20:07:39
Originally by: penifSMASH
IF Y'ALL CAN READ THIS THEN Y'ALL BEEN PWNED

WELCOME TO THE PWNZONE


change thread title to forum **** showcase MEGATHREAD, tia

Major Stallion
The Money Shot Inc.
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:08:00 - [362]
 

Originally by: Shawna Gray
Originally by: Rashi Nerha
Man I wonder how people lived in 0.0 before jumpbridges.





You mean before 0.0 was about how many supercaps you have?


the funny part is, you think that jump bridge logistics have absolutely nothing to do with how quickly and easily supercaps can be built...stay ignorant, my friends

Sinistrus Fatalis
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:08:00 - [363]
 

Originally by: CheckingAmarr
Originally by: xttz
Originally by: CCP Fallout
If it’s difficult catching people moving around, roaming/open world pvp becomes more sidelined, which we’re against

Let's be clear - this change does not promote player vs player, it promotes player versus ganker.
One of the primary draws of conquerable space is the ability to define your own transport and shortcuts. This is of huge importance to the casual 0.0 player who doesn't want to stress about getting an escort fleet everytime he moves his hauler full of salvage somewhere. The net effect of this change will be less casual eve players in 0.0, and eventually less opportunity for exactly the kind of 'PVP' you claim to promote.

Where are the mini-objectives promised for roaming gangs in conquerable 0.0 over eighteen months ago? Why aren't these gangs currently running around with the ability to disrupt jumpbridges and force people to use stargates? This is a hugely regressive step where roamers no longer have to use cunning or specialised ships to kill people outside their own towers, or disrupt their logistics, but instead the aim of their op becomes 'gank hauler on gate, go home'.

Originally by: CCP Fallout
if you’re in an alliance with an intel channel and a semi-decent jumpbridge network, you have a pretty overwhelming degree of safety

This is entirely untrue. People get ganked using jumpbridges (and beacons) all the time. Bombers, HIC traps, drag bubbles, and supercapital drops happen every minute. Try looking for them instead of assuming they do not happen.


Originally by: CCP Fallout
We’re currently looking into a long term plan for 0.0. I say long term, not because it’s planned for 2014, but because the work will begin this winter and hopefully go on for a while

You're nerfing a key part of nullsec in June. You're starting work on our consolation prize 'this winter', meaning it'll be at least 9 months before we see any improvement. Nine months as people move away from living in from vulnerable conquerable stations with little benefit to NPC 0.0 stations with no downsides.

Let's balance the books a little. If conquerable space has to become even more open to NPC-space based gankers, give us the recourse to hit them back. Let use disable NPC 0.0 station services.

Here's a crazy idea - why not introduce your nerfs alongside a proper, well thought out rebalance of nullsec rather than shoving them in now and offering vague promises that something better is coming, hopefully!
Between this and the botched sanctum change, the only people left in conquerable space by that time will be the gankers wondering where all their targets went.


This post, was a good post. These changes do nothing to promote small gang pvp. They just promote additional asymmetric pvp. It lessens the value of sov space while not addressing the balance issues of of npc nullsec.

And CCP wants to make it easier for players to move from highsec to sov space? Really? Another step backwards.


^this...

Hyveres
Caldari
Resilience.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:08:00 - [364]
 

Edited by: Hyveres on 10/05/2011 20:13:47
Originally by: Purrp Ledone
Originally by: Hyveres
Edited by: Hyveres on 10/05/2011 20:00:34
Originally by: Cellistara
Even NC/DC enemies don't support this, only pubbies and PL. I still ****ing hate you Nulli. Cloaky camping bastards.
Well I welcome you to find large numbers of 0.0 players not currently blue to MM who finds that JBs in their current incarnation are "fair & balanced"(just like fox news).

Odds are you wont find them.


Plenty in this thread, m8. Can't help you if you can't be bothered to read.
Without searching too much I find very few tbh. Most of the unhappy people are from various NC alliances, your alliance, GSF, empire based corps or NPC corps(which makes their 0.0 connections dubious since everyone loves raging from an alt).

PL are spaceless so their joy is ofcourse to be expected but I even see an anzac dude in MM who cheers for the changes(afaik most of the ex IT crowd were positive to nerfing JBs).


Rashi Nerha
GK inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:08:00 - [365]
 

Originally by: Major Stallion
Originally by: Shawna Gray
Originally by: Rashi Nerha
Man I wonder how people lived in 0.0 before jumpbridges.





You mean before 0.0 was about how many supercaps you have?


the funny part is, you think that jump bridge logistics have absolutely nothing to do with how quickly and easily supercaps can be built...stay ignorant, my friends


nerf JBs, nerf supercap production

win / win

RDevz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:09:00 - [366]
 

Originally by: Rashi Nerha
Man I wonder how people lived in 0.0 before jumpbridges.


1) Carriers could carry ships with things other than ammo in their cargo holds.
2) We lived in NPC systems with stations that could do more than one of the following things: Research; Manufacture; Refine. We also sold caracals on the open market.
3) Freighter escort ops, which are slightly less fun than having root canal.

Klausan
GK inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:10:00 - [367]
 

Originally by: Shawna Gray
Originally by: Rashi Nerha
Man I wonder how people lived in 0.0 before jumpbridges.




You mean before 0.0 was about how many supercaps you have?


And before that it was about how many dreads you had.

Rune Star
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:10:00 - [368]
 

Edited by: Rune Star on 10/05/2011 20:11:24
Thank God. I think this is a great compromise. 1 JB to a system.

The carebears pooping the bed in this thread for massive fear of getting caught on a gate is hilarious. Poor NC, as if DRK/PL wasn't beating them up enough now they have to restructure their JB network, but probably by the time the patch goes in, they won't have to reorganize that many.

Keep the tears coming, you fuel my desire to post. :)


Katsura Kotonoha
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:10:00 - [369]
 

Originally by: xttz
Originally by: CCP Fallout
If it’s difficult catching people moving around, roaming/open world pvp becomes more sidelined, which we’re against

Let's be clear - this change does not promote player vs player, it promotes player versus ganker.
One of the primary draws of conquerable space is the ability to define your own transport and shortcuts. This is of huge importance to the casual 0.0 player who doesn't want to stress about getting an escort fleet everytime he moves his hauler full of salvage somewhere. The net effect of this change will be less casual eve players in 0.0, and eventually less opportunity for exactly the kind of 'PVP' you claim to promote.

Where are the mini-objectives promised for roaming gangs in conquerable 0.0 over eighteen months ago? Why aren't these gangs currently running around with the ability to disrupt jumpbridges and force people to use stargates? This is a hugely regressive step where roamers no longer have to use cunning or specialised ships to kill people outside their own towers, or disrupt their logistics, but instead the aim of their op becomes 'gank hauler on gate, go home'.

Originally by: CCP Fallout
if you’re in an alliance with an intel channel and a semi-decent jumpbridge network, you have a pretty overwhelming degree of safety

This is entirely untrue. People get ganked using jumpbridges (and beacons) all the time. Bombers, HIC traps, drag bubbles, and supercapital drops happen every minute. Try looking for them instead of assuming they do not happen.


Originally by: CCP Fallout
We’re currently looking into a long term plan for 0.0. I say long term, not because it’s planned for 2014, but because the work will begin this winter and hopefully go on for a while

You're nerfing a key part of nullsec in June. You're starting work on our consolation prize 'this winter', meaning it'll be at least 9 months before we see any improvement. Nine months as people move away from living in from vulnerable conquerable stations with little benefit to NPC 0.0 stations with no downsides.

Let's balance the books a little. If conquerable space has to become even more open to NPC-space based gankers, give us the recourse to hit them back. Let use disable NPC 0.0 station services.

Here's a crazy idea - why not introduce your nerfs alongside a proper, well thought out rebalance of nullsec rather than shoving them in now and offering vague promises that something better is coming, hopefully!
Between this and the botched sanctum change, the only people left in conquerable space by that time will be the gankers wondering where all their targets went.


It would be nice if CCP addressed this. The decisions CCP have made demonstrate that they want to deemphasize the nation building aspect of Eve.

HungryTooth
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:10:00 - [370]
 

If anything ****ed 0.0 up it's giant cabalas of tens of thousands of players that drop 100 pilots on you at moment notice if you try to make do an escalation with a couple of friends, this way they at least have to travel if they want to kill your ship.

Dramaticus
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:11:00 - [371]
 

Originally by: Rashi Nerha
Originally by: Major Stallion
Originally by: Shawna Gray
Originally by: Rashi Nerha
Man I wonder how people lived in 0.0 before jumpbridges.





You mean before 0.0 was about how many supercaps you have?


the funny part is, you think that jump bridge logistics have absolutely nothing to do with how quickly and easily supercaps can be built...stay ignorant, my friends


nerf JBs, nerf supercap production

win / win


*Titan bridges freighters all over 0.0*

feels good man

Major Stallion
The Money Shot Inc.
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:11:00 - [372]
 

Originally by: Rashi Nerha
Originally by: Major Stallion
Originally by: Shawna Gray
Originally by: Rashi Nerha
Man I wonder how people lived in 0.0 before jumpbridges.





You mean before 0.0 was about how many supercaps you have?


the funny part is, you think that jump bridge logistics have absolutely nothing to do with how quickly and easily supercaps can be built...stay ignorant, my friends


nerf JBs, nerf supercap production

win / win


absolutely agree

Rashi Nerha
GK inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:11:00 - [373]
 

Originally by: RDevz
Originally by: Rashi Nerha
Man I wonder how people lived in 0.0 before jumpbridges.


1) Carriers could carry ships with things other than ammo in their cargo holds.
2) We lived in NPC systems with stations that could do more than one of the following things: Research; Manufacture; Refine. We also sold caracals on the open market.
3) Freighter escort ops, which are slightly less fun than having root canal.


let me tell you about the jump freighter

Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:11:00 - [374]
 

Originally by: Major Stallion
Originally by: Shawna Gray
Originally by: Rashi Nerha
Man I wonder how people lived in 0.0 before jumpbridges.





You mean before 0.0 was about how many supercaps you have?


the funny part is, you think that jump bridge logistics have absolutely nothing to do with how quickly and easily supercaps can be built...stay ignorant, my friends


Nerf the reprocessing skill tbh. 50% of the material used should be the max recieved if you reprocess anything in this game.

Rick Starkiller
Intergalactic Serenity
Ev0ke
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:13:00 - [375]
 

It's funny how everybody who is able to jump thru a Gate in 0.0 on their own, welcome this change and everybody else is crying... Laughing


Lucious Shakiel
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:13:00 - [376]
 

So, if jump drive capable ships can't use a bridge.....how the hell are we supposed to get these ships in or through a cyno jammed system?

Crias Taylor
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:13:00 - [377]
 

Edited by: Crias Taylor on 10/05/2011 20:14:50
Originally by: Rashi Nerha
Man I wonder how people lived in 0.0 before jumpbridges.





Honestly? Not many and this will just send us back to cheap alt scout days. I guess you didn't actually play without them.


Korvin
Gallente
Shadow Kingdom
Best Alliance
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:13:00 - [378]
 

Nice change.
Life is a motion. Gates will be used by locals now and noob scouts will be more needed in 0.0
Sub caps will probably still catch up their cap fleet with a titan bridge anyway, so no big deal here.

Lynn Deniera
Caldari
The Foreign Legion
The Remnant Legion
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:13:00 - [379]
 

I am disappointed that CCP have seem to not fully thought out the implications of these changes - this will harm smaller alliance and individual pilots on the ground while have little to no effect on big coalitions and objective based (big) fleets. (Remember big fleets don't use jumpbriges; they use titans or gate it.)

Ship Type
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:15:00 - [380]
 

In eve, you apparently cannot avoid PVP if you want to play with friends.

The only way to avoid PVP is to stay in the NPC corps to avoid war decs, obviously avoid low sec, and now you must avoid null sec. Previously, people who were not into PVP could go to 0.0 and avoid it all for the most part.

This is also why almost every person I've asked to come play this game has said they didn't like it.

Purrp Ledone
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:15:00 - [381]
 

Originally by: Marlona Sky

Nerf the reprocessing skill tbh. 50% of the material used should be the max recieved if you reprocess anything in this game.


Don't worry, that'll come in the "balancing nullsec economy" part Rolling Eyes

MuppetsSlayed
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:15:00 - [382]
 

Originally by: Major Stallion
Originally by: Shawna Gray
Originally by: Rashi Nerha
Man I wonder how people lived in 0.0 before jumpbridges.





You mean before 0.0 was about how many supercaps you have?


the funny part is, you think that jump bridge logistics have absolutely nothing to do with how quickly and easily supercaps can be built...stay ignorant, my friends


The larger alliances have been titan portalling freighters for years.
CCP are making it harder for the smaller alliances without titan logistics.

CCP Soundwave


C C P Alliance
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:17:00 - [383]
 

Edited by: CCP Soundwave on 10/05/2011 20:16:58
Originally by: Ship Type
In eve, you apparently cannot avoid PVP if you want to play with friends.

The only way to avoid PVP is to stay in the NPC corps to avoid war decs, obviously avoid low sec, and now you must avoid null sec. Previously, people who were not into PVP could go to 0.0 and avoid it all for the most part.

This is also why almost every person I've asked to come play this game has said they didn't like it.


It should be difficult to avoid PVP in nullsec. Right now that's relatively easy due to jumpbridges being so convenient and easy to use. The downside is that nullsec, an area that should be our pvp flagship, is relatively boring and lifeless when it comes to pvp, apart from territorial conquests. Hopefully this will shake it up a bit and create more opportunity for pvp.

noldevin
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:18:00 - [384]
 

Edited by: noldevin on 10/05/2011 20:18:59
While you're at it, ban the DRF for botting their way into supremacy.

Or better yet, make more belt rats warp scramble, and remove the log off/disappear timer when warp scrambled. Logging off should never be a valid escape tactic when you're already caught.

Zamiq
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:18:00 - [385]
 

So out of so many other choices, the one CCP decided to use is the one that increases tedium for the deep 0.0 dwellers?
I mean, look how many options you had:

Option 1: Make the Jump Bridge Array an independent structure, separate from the POS and the Force Field. This would increase the risk as there is no POS to shoot the nuets/hostiles and no nearby forcefield for safety.

Option 2: Make the JB structure visible to all players in the system, this way passing neutrals/hostiles will see right away where the JB is and investigate.

Option 3: Put an effect on a player that is equal to a cooldown which must expire before taking the next JB, or even warping. Not too long, maybe a minute but this will make everyone extend their "risk" period between JB jumps.

Option 4: Take Option 1, 2 and 3 and combine it. But noooooooooo, you need to make it so that travelling into a deep system would equal crossing the breadth and width of the entire empire space.

In addition if you wanted to make 0.0 a better place to live then why the sanctum nerf? Yeah you wanted to make some systems more desirable, well how about tying in your JBs into truesec? If a JB array is in -1.0 system they get a massive range boost(x4), this would have the desired result of the increased conflict. What alliance would not want a smaller and faster supply chain? You know what? You could have taken Option 1, independent JBs, and the truesec idea and combined it into a nice system which would have increased warfare over supply chains and JB control. You could have added Cyno/Wormhole jamming units, similar to blockade units and allowed alliances or roaming groups to deny JB functionality in a system. So many options and so many money sinks and in the end you choose the lame approach, instead of balancing the game by adding to it you just take the easy way out.

BondGamer
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:19:00 - [386]
 

Why hold space if you can't have jump bridges? That is the only bonus for sovereignty. Good job CCP removing the one thing people like and saying you will add new stuff in a year.

Korvin
Gallente
Shadow Kingdom
Best Alliance
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:19:00 - [387]
 

Originally by: Lynn Deniera
I am disappointed that CCP have seem to not fully thought out the implications of these changes - this will harm smaller alliance and individual pilots on the ground while have little to no effect on big coalitions and objective based (big) fleets. (Remember big fleets don't use jumpbriges; they use titans or gate it.)

Smaller alliances can't afford to have their own space this days, what harm are you talking about? Twisted Evil
They are renters, and probably will rent a system or two, not enough for a large bridge network anyway.

Crias Taylor
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:20:00 - [388]
 

Edited by: Crias Taylor on 10/05/2011 20:22:10
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Edited by: CCP Soundwave on 10/05/2011 20:16:58
Originally by: Ship Type
In eve, you apparently cannot avoid PVP if you want to play with friends.

The only way to avoid PVP is to stay in the NPC corps to avoid war decs, obviously avoid low sec, and now you must avoid null sec.  Previously, people who were not into PVP could go to 0.0 and avoid it all for the most part.

This is also why almost every person I've asked to come play this game has said they didn't like it.



It should be difficult to avoid PVP in nullsec. Right now that's relatively easy due to jumpbridges being so convenient and easy to use. The downside is that nullsec, an area that should be our pvp flagship, is relatively boring and lifeless when it comes to pvp, apart from territorial conquests. Hopefully this will shake it up a bit and create more opportunity for pvp.


Don't you think 4 weeks is too short to remap when it takes 6 weeks to sov tick?

xttz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:20:00 - [389]
 

Edited by: xttz on 10/05/2011 20:24:19
:qq:

Pneumon Blaster
Quondam Souls of the Universe corporation
THE R0NIN
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:20:00 - [390]
 

Edited by: Pneumon Blaster on 10/05/2011 20:20:43
Thanks god we don't have our space anymore :)


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