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blankseplocked Is Piracy ever going to be thrown a bone?
 
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Carlos Jaegar
Nulli-Secundus
Posted - 2005.02.10 21:37:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Carlos Jaegar on 10/02/2005 21:40:25
As a small time pirate, things have never been easy; I never expected them to be. Limited one’s self to hunting Convoy’s, holding up ships/looting; it is a difficult ladder to climb, full of pitfalls and set-backs.

However since Exodus things have gone downhill. Firstly Convoys, the only ‘stable’ trickle of income for small pirates has gone. For some reason they (apparently) were dropping the ‘wrong’ type of loot. Great, so the solution to this problem? remove it completely...
In parallel to this, perhaps some might consider this a moment of pure genius, someone decides “hey wouldn’t it be great if we have agent missions in secure Empire space where you get to fight NPC Battleships!” ….oh dear.

The latter of the two has destroyed the concept of risk vs. reward. Want to make fast isk? Jump in a raven and solo lvl4 missions (which if anyone remembers where supposed to be team efforts). You can even do it under the close eye of Concord, gee don’t you just wub those guys?..

So now, no-one wants to bother with 0.0, few people bother with low sec. empire anymore too. Not that it matters anyway, as once your sec. status is ‘broken’ your pretty much doomed to failure. In the meantime everyone is sitting in 0.5 and above (Rens anyone?) getting fat, dumb and happy on endless isk. Is this how Exodus was supposed to be?

Anyway, no doubt many will jump on this as another “Omg Whiney Pirate thread!”…..well, bite me. The only concession pirates get is a smattering of criminal affiliated agents across the outer regions (and then the NPC’s will still shoot you even if they ‘wub’ you).

Adapt or die is thrown around here often, well maybe its time to change track a little. Coming from the idea that Piracy is “any form of I’ll gotten gains” and, seen as your all so happy chaining big rat’s in safe, secure, empire space perhaps it’s time to join you….stealing your loot, maybe even partaking in a little ore thievery. If this is how CCP want ‘Piracy’ to be so be it. ugh

Face Lifter
Posted - 2005.02.10 21:46:00 - [2]
 

As far as the game is concerned, real piracy is make-believe, there's only senseless killing.

CCP don't want senseless killing, hence the changes. The role of PvP is being pushed toward legit wars between alliances and corps. And PvE.. well, that means "you against AI", without interference from other players. Hence the instancing and focus on empire space.

meowcat
Aliastra
Posted - 2005.02.10 21:49:00 - [3]
 

i agree that the "exodus" has occurred in the opposite direction



CCP Wrangler

Posted - 2005.02.10 22:02:00 - [4]
 

Omg Whiney Pirate thread!

Sorry, but I just had to when you posted that.. Laughing

ManchesterTart
Posted - 2005.02.10 22:10:00 - [5]
 

It may well be worth moving the better level 4 agents (i.e those that have the highest EQ's) into 0.3 and 0.4 space whilst still leaving good level 4 agents in Empire Space.

This may well introduce more "targets" in lower security systems and, unless all pirates are using MegaPulse Arma's with 8 WCS (and I believe a LOT of them are), I think these pirates would find most level 4 kill mission runners are actually rather challenging.

I'd much rather have level 4 agents mostly based in 0.4 and below systems simply because it makes sense that NPC's would make their first invasive attempts there from 0.0 space (which is their natural stronghold - or maybe they know 0.1-0.4 systems are worthless too Wink).

Current steps to make people use 0.1-0.4 systems aren't working so CCP may aswell try a few more ideas.

Gungankllr
Caldari
Hard Rock Mining Co.
Territorial Claim Unit
Posted - 2005.02.10 22:11:00 - [6]
 

Actually, I have noticed that doing anything in space lower than .5 is basically inviting death for your average solo player.

Everyone has a style of play they enjoy, and I'm not going to knock other folks because they get their jollies from camping gates and killing players.

But as evidenced from any trip to the space around Obe, or near Vezila, or other systems not "bottled in" by high security space, for the most part it's nothing but sentry tanking player killers and other people.

Just as an experiment, several months ago I created an alt and flew him around in low sec, (.4 and below) making n00bish statements like "Is there anything cool to see in this system?, I just started and I'm exploring", and "Hi guys, is there any good hunting for a new player around here?"

The alt was podded four times in an afternoon by three completely different groups of players. I'm not just talking shipkilled, I'm talking PODDED.

Anyways, that's the kind of people we're talking about now.

Something does need to be done to balance the wants of the pirate to the wants of the non-pirate. Boredom breeds activity like that.

We need to get away from people sitting at gates killing everyone that comes by, make some sort of game mechanic or effort coding to make it easier for "real" pirates to do their thing.

The alternative, is a lowsec space that is impossible to travel, and a distinct separation in the playerbase that won't interact with each other because of the inherent problems.

if CCP wants more PVP, then give real bonuses for having a negative or positive Security status, balanced by common sense.

I was trying to come up with some good suggestions, but I worked all night and my brain is tired.

Sooner or later, mindless F1, F2, F3, F4 killing at gates will come back to haunt CCP.

Hopefully the situation gets better before it gets worse.

Miki Fin
Gallente
New Eden Population Control
Posted - 2005.02.10 22:16:00 - [7]
 

Can I have your stuff?Rolling EyesYARRRR!!

Carlos Jaegar
Nulli-Secundus
Posted - 2005.02.10 22:28:00 - [8]
 

Bite me YARRRR!!

Seriously though, in response to Face Lifter, if that were the direction the game is going, then why bother? split the server and be done with it...

Piracy should be viable, and I tend to agree that the mindless 'ganking' is to a large extent a symptom of the poor state of affairs... *gank*--> Rinse and repeat “oh no my sec. status is broken, time to chain hundreds of Npc battleships”.

I’m not asking for it easy, all I’m asking is for is “throw me a fricking bone here” YARRRR!!

Vernn
Posted - 2005.02.10 22:30:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Vernn on 10/02/2005 22:31:20
Im can't believe ive been so blind!

This game is gunna be SOOOO much more fun now that I know that what I should be doing is going to low security space and getting all my stuff blown up/stolen that I have spent weeks of mining to earn!

Good plan Poindexter!

Lygos
Amarr
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2005.02.10 22:35:00 - [10]
 

You have to change incentive structures and player behaviour from the source. Simplistic mechanical adjustments will not overcome rational actor thinking. Hence, simplistic analytical appraisals of the dilemma not sufficient.

People like to say they are macho pvpers.
People also like to spend 98% of their time sitting in safespots of some sort and not talk about it. As a rule, pvp is about waiting for someone else to stick their neck out.
Which speaks louder to you?

The simplest answer is never the correct one. Human beings are reticent and risk-averse by nature - games must plan around this fact rather than cater to it or against it.

EVE is not a game of risk-management (yet?) as pvp is increasingly not a necessary part of the game. Even the people who do allegedly seek pvp cannot honestly claim to seek it out of necessity. There is no carebear/pvper dynamic at work as that is a laughably thin Derrida-ian binary. There is no political whiner conspiracy at work my dear suffering and maligned paranoiacs. You are all the same. You are all in the same boat. Some of you just happen to be more focused on singular game mechanics rather than the whole production. You all have equal intellectual reserve capacity for broad perspicacity on this microcosm of a political universe. Any immediate snide reaction to this is a defense mechanism to protect you from thinking outside your own immediate desires.

Carlos Jaegar
Nulli-Secundus
Posted - 2005.02.10 22:46:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Vernn
Edited by: Vernn on 10/02/2005 22:31:20
Im can't believe ive been so blind!

This game is gunna be SOOOO much more fun now that I know that what I should be doing is going to low security space and getting all my stuff blown up/stolen that I have spent weeks of mining to earn!

Good plan Poindexter!

Try pirating for a while and come back when you've understood the concept of risk vs. reward and how hideously distorted Agent missions have made it. Rolling Eyes

I get excited about gaining a couple of hundred thousand isk. As a small time pirate you just about got by with supplementing 'hits' with blowing up convoys, now that that’s gone you can't break even. Now if you want to break even you have to resort to other forms of 'piracy' -stealing loot, ore thievery… all fine and dandy (makes more isk the trying to ransom ships) and carries little to no risk, just like agent missions...

I'm not saying you have to go into low sec. empire, I'm saying its gross distortion of the balance of risk vs. reward, that instead of taking the 'plunge' and being rewarded, all you have to do is solo lvl4 missions, killing multiple BS and making millions of isk.... all the while snug and secure under Concords watchful gaze.

If you can't see the problem here, then you would clearly see no problem with a split server Neutral

RollinDutchMasters
Gallente
Ordnance Delivery Services Inc.
Posted - 2005.02.10 22:50:00 - [12]
 

Give up. CCP does not want piracy. They want ganking.

Moving mission runners into low-sec is useless because camping mission spots is a good way to get banned. Dont want to make the people in unsafe space feel unsafe, right? Low-sec NPCing in belts is gone, thanks to agents. Even low-sec mining is pretty pointless now because you do better isk/hour wise in a covetor chewing up all the scordite in the noob systems. Most of the 0.0 chokepoints are connected to empire through high security space (yay for whining about orvolle).

The only way to actually pirate right now is to just snipe or get a gang together and tank sentries. This isnt because either of those activities are particularly fun, its just because thats the only real way to kill people in low-sec.

IMO, low-security space needs to be expanded and all connections to 0.0 should go through at least 2 or 3 low-sec systems. The ores in low-security space need to be improved. Make a a pair of new low-sec ores, one with roughly 50% more trit/pyerite over time then scordite, and one with good amounts of nocx with about a dozen zyd for 5-10 minutes of mining with a good miner ship. Move all positive-quality lvl 4 agents into low-sec space, and put all mission BMs within 100k of a planet.

Also, fix flagging to not be ******ed. Instead of the pointless 15 minutes at a safespot that we've got now, flag someone whos committed a hostile act to everyone for 24 hours. Then take away the CONCORD and sentry response to flagging, and ffs, make it ****ing visible. Make special CONCORD agents that locate and track flagged individuals, which work remotely for a mid-ranged (500k or so) fee, and keep updating you every 15 minutes for an hour.

Right now 'piracy' is a joke. Yes, I know that will never change, and that CCP is far too concerned with loading stupidly high rewards into mindlessly easy agent missions in 100% safe space. But I can dream.

Kota
Posted - 2005.02.10 22:53:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Carlos Jaegar
In the meantime everyone is sitting in 0.5 and above (Rens anyone?) getting fat, dumb and happy on endless isk. Is this how Exodus was supposed to be?


I agree and it's really getting stupid. However pirating is dead. Most of time if you're getting "pirated" is that you meet bunch of players at gate who just shoot you and quite often with some sort of trap that there is no way or very little change to get out.

EvE really need to move pvp out of gates somehow. It's boring and killing other players with some insta kill trap isnt more challenging than killling these dumb level 4 agent missions NPCs. In fact killing NPCs can be more challenging than killing other players with some overkill gank soon as they come out of gate, but I would lot rather have player offering the challenge than AI.

I would gladly see pirates even in 0.5+ space if they changed that gate camping wasnt so easy. Like making webbers/scremplers not work around gates or there was some "interference" around gates that made these less effective and(or make target locking x3 longer.

Selim
Akh'Vehlr Industries
Posted - 2005.02.10 23:03:00 - [14]
 

Yep... the exodus has certainly flown in the wrong direction... to empire. EVE's risk vs reward is terribly broken.

Infinity Ziona
Minmatar
Cloakers
Posted - 2005.02.10 23:17:00 - [15]
 

The problem with Piracy is complex but I think one of the most important and often overlooked is the desires of so called Pirates vs the realities of Piracy.

For some unknown reason, CPP have decided to alienate all but the group minded players when it comes to PvP. This means to pirate, a group of players needs to be formed and that group needs to kill a number of victims x the number in their group to make a decent profit, at the least.

So you need a constant stream of victims in most cases. Not many people are willing to make do with 1 kill a day, or even 1 kill an hour when they have to divide the loot. On the other hand, the map, player communication and 'avoid pod kills / ship kills' helps players to avoid giving the Pirates a steady stream of players to kill.

So you have dissatisfied pirates, cautious non-pvp'rs and mechanics working against the two causing Pirates to become frustrated.

The only solution would be scaling back group oriented ganksquads, encouraging less dangerous, longer small group PvP which provides opportunities for pirates to chase down, catch, hold and or kill victims and provides opportunities for the victims to avoid by toll paying or large amounts of HP, ship killing and pod killing and also encourages the victim with massive reward to enter and be active in unsafe space.

With the new industrials we have the HP already, we now need a way to STOP that ship, a way to encourage non-lethal interaction (because if its always lethal people won't go out there) and a REASON to go out there in the first place.

Until we have these things Piracy will remain the way it is, which is non-existant, PvP will be composed of 1 group shooting at another group (fleet lag battles) or 1 group shooting at 1 ship (Fleet gankage) and EVE PvP will remain poor and unimaginative.

Infinity Ziona

Arcticblue2
Gallente
Nordic Freelancers inc
Posted - 2005.02.10 23:24:00 - [16]
 

If players would let more people into 0.0 then maybe there would be more piracy ??? anybody actually tought about that ?.

Reason one to why people don't move into 0.0 among others is gatecamping... that is the number one reason, ask anybody why they don't move into 0.0

Why risk getting ganked at the gate where you don't stand a chance, I bet that nobody will care if they got ganked out in the belts in 0.0 but as it is now... 0.0 is off limits for most of the people in EVE.
but it is soooo much easier to complain about CCP nerfing the game, if people stopped misusing the gamemechanics and tried to play honestly ccp would not nerf alot of the stuff they had to nerf.

Amerame
Kernel of War
Posted - 2005.02.10 23:31:00 - [17]
 

I think the main problem is mainly that all ressources are avaible everywhere, drasticaly diminishing the need of traders. No traders => No pirates. Each eve region should have a ressources that no other has.

Face Lifter
Posted - 2005.02.10 23:35:00 - [18]
 

on issue of Risk vs Reward

In PvE, risk is very small. Instead of risk, PvE is mostly about "doable" and "not doable" - player has full control of the situation and can decide for himself what he can do and not do.

Higher risk levels can only come from PvP related activities.

Since PvE stuff in EVE has very low risk, what it comes down to is "time vs reward" - basically the amount of money you can make in 1 hour. People look at what's available to them from PvE perspective, they filter out all "not doable" scenarios and simply choose a "doable" activity with greatest reward over time. There is no serious risk, it only comes from unexpected PvP encounters, which are rare and getting more rare all the time (key word - unexpected, unwanted)

Dianabolic
Reikoku
Posted - 2005.02.10 23:37:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Arcticblue2
If players would let more people into 0.0 then maybe there would be more piracy ??? anybody actually tought about that ?.


If there was more piracy than there is now, in 0.0 (or, let's call it, "pointless ganking") do u REALLY think MORE people would go out there!?

We need risk vs reward. Low sec empire needs to be made profitable. Either through trade or moving agents or SOMETHING. But the current state of affairs can NOT be allowed to continue.

Bad'Boy
Caldari
Men in Black
Posted - 2005.02.10 23:38:00 - [20]
 

lets all mine veld in yulai in peace

Arcticblue2
Gallente
Nordic Freelancers inc
Posted - 2005.02.10 23:40:00 - [21]
 

as you state... risk vs rewards... if you open up 0.0 more you would get more people wanting to go there why ? better npc's and better ore... why not go there now ? risk of not actually getting there now !!!

if gateganking was gone you would stand a chance in the belts to get away but then again do we want to work for the isk pirates ??? nah.. much better to sit at the gate and gank them.

Lygos
Amarr
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2005.02.10 23:47:00 - [22]
 

RollinDutchMasters:
But what is going to encourage all those rich easy-to-kill people to want to be in your target reticle? That's the part you have to overcome. It's not a question of limitations on the assailant to put his targetting reticles on the player.. as we have seen, they will go to any sustainable length to do so.

The only thing that is going to get me out there is to have something to lose, and a reason to want to risk it. A mere ship I can hide at any moment within 2 minutes? What other thing can the player desire to have at risk at all hours? You can't solve this problem by subtracting mechanics from the game.. you have to progress forward and add new driving contradictions, new dilemmas and new desirable risks for the undistinguished player X. EVE has to become more complicated in order to work. You can't cure a wound with a tourniquet afterall.

You recognized this by saying that there should be more profit in 0.0 compared to empire based agents, I just don't think you took this line of thinking far enough.

I think people need a way to worry less about recieving security status. It should be a tool for shaping and directing a players existence in EVE rather than halting it. Where is the low security (or factional) equivalent of Yulai? (and how come Minmatars find it so easy to shop there?) EVE needs to be carved up and mechanics need to be freed to weild the scalpel so that players can take paths without fear of onerous burdens placed upon them.

Also, I think the mechanics of combat have to be addressed. Instances when combat do occur are not ever going to be on an even ground. Pilots aren't interested in engagements where they can't even retaliate, however ineffectively. If you want more pvp you have to make combat be less avoidable yet also more survivable. Hence the HP boost you despise. The HP boost alone is too simple, so you have to couple that with new rapid safespot eliminating tools. Safespot elimination is also too simple, so you have to get adjust flagging so pursuits can occur. Enabling pursuits is probably enough, but it will be too simple if... and so on and so forth.

I don't understand why the same people that argue for risk management also argue for the continued ability to continue to be able to log off in space - either during combat or before it - with no consequences. This seems plainly inconsistent to me. Part of encouraging people to put their assets at risk is that they should be able to reap a profit from it. Having player only risk a single loggable ship per player is no way to make a pvp game or a base from which to construct an risk incentive model. That would be as sensible as making counterstrike maps 20 times larger just for the heck of it. EVE has to get away from being all about ships and away from the transient leapfrog nature of combat and general client interaction. You should always be able to pursue some kind of prey even if it is stubbornly well-hidden and everyone should have the desire to put something at risk ALL the time.

If I could suggest a single simplistic excission to take place in EVE for maximum effect on all spheres of the game: I would suggest eliminating ice fields and keeping the moon miners online anyway. That goes over about as well as a brick.. but it could be the smartest thing ccp ever did with some tweaking. THAT would make gate camping obsolete and crudely accelerate PVP beyond the probably limits the servers could handle.

(Actually we could keep the ice fields.. but we need to do something else with them - tech3 I guess.. or better deployable structure buiding (not maintenance) requirements.)

The complexity goes on and on. Meanwhile, the easiest thing for CCP to do is sit on their hands, endlessly intrigue the community about tweaking the same stats over and over rather than go about half-developing new content. They're only human afterall. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for them to churn out a miracle. Best to just move on and try to enjoy other things either in EVE or elsewhere.

Gungankllr
Caldari
Hard Rock Mining Co.
Territorial Claim Unit
Posted - 2005.02.11 00:04:00 - [23]
 

1. Add the ability to freewarp.

2. Fix convoys and add them to lowsec and 0.0 space. Give them actual starting points and destinations, and have "pirate" agents feed you intelligence on where they are leaving from, and when they are "scheduled" to arrive at certain gates.

3. Add some sort of a flagging system queued from the gates/sentry guns in a system. When player pirates are actively going to camp a system (lowsec or 0.0, not related to wardecs), they pay a fee to Concord/whoever, and a popup window opens with everyone that enters the system.

For a predetermined fee, the player would be allowed to pass and the pirate would not be able to target or fire upon them, with the only exception being if the pirate was locked first. The player has from the time they enter system until they uncloak to either pay the fee and fly along safely, or not and risk being shot up. This does a few things: It makes piracy in the randsom method simple, and it provides a game mechanic for industrial folks, haulers and other players to go into losec space with less mindless killing.

Establish "red corridors", which are systems where the above method is used exclusively. Red Corridors are big shortcuts from empire systems to empire systems, and while cutting huge time off your travel they raise the risk factor greatly unless you are willing to pay.

Ownership of Red Corridors (i.e. the ones that get to control the system) could be set up in either a POS type situation (i.e. knock down the shields) or something of the like of "activate the beacon" or something.

You could basically call it Concord trying to cut down on the senseless loss of lives through non-concord patrolled space by giving the pirates a little rope.

Perhaps that's a bad analogy, but it seemed like a good idea.

Any thoughts?




Jakk Graiseach
Trotters Interstellar Traders
Legion of The Damned.
Posted - 2005.02.11 00:39:00 - [24]
 

As near as I can tell, the people who are interested in being pirate fodder tend to be PvPers - probably in a decent 0,0 alliance.

Pirates calling for more victims is no different to the plaintive cry of the PKs in UO - and risk vs reward didn't cut it there either because (as in nearly every MMOG) the players want 'fun' not 'risk'. In the end a lot of us switched to RP wars there with fairly strict rules about not attacking folks without giving them the chance to pay us off first, which seemed to work quite well.

I don't think there's an easy solution to this in Eve. The devs have obviously seen the trend towards consensual or area PvP in these other games and have to react accordingly if they want enough paid accounts to keep their business running. DAoC and WoW have this 'sanitised' approach to PvP, UO started out like 0,0 and then added 'empire' space with Trammel, etc..

I'd say improve 0,0 for the inhabitants - make it possible to live there with real facilities of some kind (Market, Repairs, 'agents', etc..) and get rid of the choke points. Maybe then you might see more players give it a try?

If nothing changes then 0,0 will die and CCP will recycle it, maybe by allowing players to fight for some kind of Empire territory expansion and turn it into 0,1 space instead... who knows Razz

Shin Ra
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2005.02.11 01:22:00 - [25]
 

If you cant make any money out of piracy you are clearly doing something wrong. Try going to 0.0

Van Cleef
Caldari
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
The Fourth District
Posted - 2005.02.11 02:16:00 - [26]
 

Why should a trader go to 0.0 space? I can see a miner, but why should a trader go?

Daakkon
Northern Intelligence
SMASH Alliance
Posted - 2005.02.11 02:55:00 - [27]
 

first step would be to get rid of highways and make all these major systems e.g. Yulai and New Caldari go through 0.0 to get to them both...that would be a step in the right direction

Stetu
Minmatar
Tides of Silence
SMASH Alliance
Posted - 2005.02.11 03:03:00 - [28]
 

You disgust me.
Pirates do not cry.
We fight,
We kill,
we loot,
we make ppl go and buy a ship,
we rinse,
repeat,
and do not cry and complain on the forums because we can't kill anything.

In other words.

Go out and start killin by yourself, someone will see you if you're good enough and will be like hey, i want that dude. If not quit the game or become a carebear.

Famine Aligher'ri
V i L e
Posted - 2005.02.11 03:16:00 - [29]
 

Prob going to be slapped for saying this but....

It's only obvious that there is to many friends in 0.0.

Where ever you go in any 0.0 you will have a group of pirates who all fly that zone. Either in an alliance or a new one. Those guys gank anyone they see that is new to the system. So what you get is, 6 Battleships, 2 Frigs and a Crow flying around trying to chase this 1 Raven who has full WCS's on who is laughing at you.

What the pvp system needs, is more unfriendly pirates and more anti-pirates who actually pick up and head to a enemy system and play "I win".

I'm doing piracy activites and enjoy flying with the people I fly with. But there isn't enough action. Only once and a while will a good fight break out or a good ganking will take place. Mind you, I don't play 24-7. It makes me just want to go solo in a covert-op ship and solo pvp just for more action.

-Famine

Sergeant Spot
Galactic Geographic BookMark Surveying Inc.
Posted - 2005.02.11 04:19:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Gungankllr
Actually, I have noticed that doing anything in space lower than .5 is basically inviting death for your average solo player.

Everyone has a style of play they enjoy, and I'm not going to knock other folks because they get their jollies from camping gates and killing players.

But as evidenced from any trip to the space around Obe, or near Vezila, or other systems not "bottled in" by high security space, for the most part it's nothing but sentry tanking player killers and other people.

Just as an experiment, several months ago I created an alt and flew him around in low sec, (.4 and below) making n00bish statements like "Is there anything cool to see in this system?, I just started and I'm exploring", and "Hi guys, is there any good hunting for a new player around here?"

The alt was podded four times in an afternoon by three completely different groups of players. I'm not just talking shipkilled, I'm talking PODDED.

Anyways, that's the kind of people we're talking about now.

Something does need to be done to balance the wants of the pirate to the wants of the non-pirate. Boredom breeds activity like that.

We need to get away from people sitting at gates killing everyone that comes by, make some sort of game mechanic or effort coding to make it easier for "real" pirates to do their thing.

The alternative, is a lowsec space that is impossible to travel, and a distinct separation in the playerbase that won't interact with each other because of the inherent problems.

if CCP wants more PVP, then give real bonuses for having a negative or positive Security status, balanced by common sense.

I was trying to come up with some good suggestions, but I worked all night and my brain is tired.

Sooner or later, mindless F1, F2, F3, F4 killing at gates will come back to haunt CCP.

Hopefully the situation gets better before it gets worse.




Excellent post. I could not have said it better myself. While I've nothing against folks that want to be thugs (or pirates, but not all pirates are thugs...), it never ceases to amaze me that some of them seem to think players will happily rush to be pod killed with high value ships for no real chance at reward if only CCP would make some 'pirate friendly' changes.

I've got news folks: NOTHING will make folks play a losing game for long (a short time, yes, but not for long...).

In order for players to cooperate with any effort by CCP to get thugs and pirates more PvP victims, the players who are going to be the new victims have to see a PROBABLE overall benefit to themselves. "Possible" benefit is not enough. "Possible" benefit exists now.


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