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death klokk
Posted - 2011.05.08 04:26:00 - [1]
 

Will you(ccp), just remove standings from local? Meaning no red icons, no blue icons, no WT icons, no fleet icons, no alliance icons, skulls etc...

Sure, it may seem like this will accomplish nothing, but given some time, complacency will set in. IT always does.

Imagine a moderately populated system (30-50) people, and someone unfriendly jumps in. Maybe someone is on "local" duty checking the names of everyone in local every few minutes, but maybe not and maybe the perp sneaks in undetected. Now before the whinebears chime in about how this favors the hunter too heavily consider this:

1. if the gate had been camped, defended, whatever u want to call it, a flashy red or true neutral would have been spotted jumping into the system.
2. Being vigilant on who's in local would have given you the intel you neglecated to check for anyway without hitting dscan a million times.

Before the hunters whine about how this won't affect systems with small populations consider this:

1. The only way you would have had a better chance of catching someone anyway would have been without having a 'local' period and we all know that isnt going to happen



on a side note: this may yield positive results against the botters.. if anything, it won't make their life any easier.

Mortania
Minmatar
No Compromise
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2011.05.08 04:28:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: death klokk
Will you(ccp), just remove standings from local? Meaning no red icons, no blue icons, no WT icons, no fleet icons, no alliance icons, skulls etc...

Sure, it may seem like this will accomplish nothing, but given some time, complacency will set in. IT always does.

Imagine a moderately populated system (30-50) people, and someone unfriendly jumps in. Maybe someone is on "local" duty checking the names of everyone in local every few minutes, but maybe not and maybe the perp sneaks in undetected. Now before the whinebears chime in about how this favors the hunter too heavily consider this:

1. if the gate had been camped, defended, whatever u want to call it, a flashy red or true neutral would have been spotted jumping into the system.
2. Being vigilant on who's in local would have given you the intel you neglecated to check for anyway without hitting dscan a million times.

Before the hunters whine about how this won't affect systems with small populations consider this:

1. The only way you would have had a better chance of catching someone anyway would have been without having a 'local' period and we all know that isnt going to happen



on a side note: this may yield positive results against the botters.. if anything, it won't make their life any easier.


At least it's obvious you're only trying to benefit hunters with this request.

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2011.05.08 04:39:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Tres Farmer on 08/05/2011 04:40:31
Originally by: death klokk
Will you(ccp), just remove standings from local? Meaning no red icons, no blue icons, no WT icons, no fleet icons, no alliance icons, skulls etc...
*snip*

You do know that you can access the picture folder being utilised for those small pictures on the client, yes?
And you also know that you can manipulate those pictures, yes?
And you know that those pictures are linked via your unique char-ID, yes?
Your idea falls flat on it's face.
Next.

PS: I support CCP to check if they can link everything in the database to the char-ID instead of the names, so people could change names in future Cool

death klokk
Posted - 2011.05.08 04:39:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Mortania


At least it's obvious you're only trying to benefit hunters with this request.


isn't that the entire point of the "remove local" argument? And really its just trying to balance the odds. While it still weighs favorably in the way of the "defenders" or "carebears"..atleast the "attackers" or "pvpers" aren't unfairly spotted quite so easily like a red blot in the chat windows. One enemy or neutral should have a reasonable chance to infiltrate a system undetected, even if only briefly. IF its a cyno alt, well, local spike is still local spike.

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2011.05.08 04:44:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: death klokk
Originally by: Mortania
At least it's obvious you're only trying to benefit hunters with this request.

isn't that the entire point of the "remove local" argument?
*snip*

Not really.. there wouldn't be an ongoing discussion with both sides having good arguments for each outcome if this was the case.

And yeah.. d-scan/probes/map/overview as intel tools without local suck big balls. I wish those discussions would focus more on those things and what should be done about them..

death klokk
Posted - 2011.05.08 04:49:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: death klokk on 08/05/2011 04:49:40
Originally by: Tres Farmer
Edited by: Tres Farmer on 08/05/2011 04:40:31
Originally by: death klokk
Will you(ccp), just remove standings from local? Meaning no red icons, no blue icons, no WT icons, no fleet icons, no alliance icons, skulls etc...
*snip*

You do know that you can access the picture folder being utilised for those small pictures on the client, yes?
And you also know that you can manipulate those pictures, yes?
And you know that those pictures are linked via your unique char-ID, yes?
Your idea falls flat on it's face.
Next.

PS: I support CCP to check if they can link everything in the database to the char-ID instead of the names, so people could change names in future Cool


wth are you talking about? I'm talking about making it so you can't just do a 2 second scan of the local window to see if there are only friendlies in system or not because of the giant red or blue stars. You would have to manually check each name... etc etc...

http://dan.hersam.com/lists/not_bright.html

Find one you're most comfortable referring to yourself as and go away now, thanks.

EDIT: now HOW ccp has to go about doing so is another story...


death klokk
Posted - 2011.05.08 04:56:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Tres Farmer
Originally by: death klokk
Originally by: Mortania
At least it's obvious you're only trying to benefit hunters with this request.

isn't that the entire point of the "remove local" argument?
*snip*

Not really.. there wouldn't be an ongoing discussion with both sides having good arguments for each outcome if this was the case.

And yeah.. d-scan/probes/map/overview as intel tools without local suck big balls. I wish those discussions would focus more on those things and what should be done about them..


Um removing local heavily favors the "hunters" in that instance. The current system is overly imbalanced to favor the defenders. The defenders should have the upper-hand but not as they do now. My suggestion merely makes it more of "actually working for your intel" for the defenders without actually nerfing the hell out of them; IE: no local + blackops hotdrop= , or no local + covops t3/sb/recon=.

my suggestion merely attempts to unnerf, if you will, the invading party while simply relying on the resolve and vigilance of the defenders.

Mooney92
Minmatar
nul-li-fy
B O R G
Posted - 2011.05.08 05:08:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: death klokk
Will you(ccp), just remove standings from local? Meaning no red icons, no blue icons, no WT icons, no fleet icons, no alliance icons, skulls etc...

Sure, it may seem like this will accomplish nothing, but given some time, complacency will set in. IT always does.

Imagine a moderately populated system (30-50) people, and someone unfriendly jumps in. Maybe someone is on "local" duty checking the names of everyone in local every few minutes, but maybe not and maybe the perp sneaks in undetected. Now before the whinebears chime in about how this favors the hunter too heavily consider this:

1. if the gate had been camped, defended, whatever u want to call it, a flashy red or true neutral would have been spotted jumping into the system.
2. Being vigilant on who's in local would have given you the intel you neglecated to check for anyway without hitting dscan a million times.

Before the hunters whine about how this won't affect systems with small populations consider this:

1. The only way you would have had a better chance of catching someone anyway would have been without having a 'local' period and we all know that isnt going to happen



on a side note: this may yield positive results against the botters.. if anything, it won't make their life any easier.


Brown-Baby killing soldier are the worst. Who let you out of lowsec.

Meridith Akesia
Stimulus
Posted - 2011.05.08 05:08:00 - [9]
 

Changing the system so it just results in more effort is not good game design.

Yanshee
Posted - 2011.05.08 05:13:00 - [10]
 

The only thing your idea will do is force people to be manually bringing up character sheets to check standings all the damn time.

People will still use local as an intel tool but it will be a disastrously time consuming and infuritating process.

Definite no.

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2011.05.08 05:17:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: death klokk
Originally by: Tres Farmer
Originally by: death klokk
Will you(ccp), just remove standings from local? Meaning no red icons, no blue icons, no WT icons, no fleet icons, no alliance icons, skulls etc...
*snip*

You do know that you can access the picture folder being utilised for those small pictures on the client, yes?
And you also know that you can manipulate those pictures, yes?
And you know that those pictures are linked via your unique char-ID, yes?
Your idea falls flat on it's face.
Next.

wth are you talking about? I'm talking about making it so you can't just do a 2 second scan of the local window to see if there are only friendlies in system or not because of the giant red or blue stars. You would have to manually check each name... etc etc...
*snip*

The picture you see of chars in any chat window.. including local are stored on your hardrive.. you can manipulate them and the client will show those manipulated pictures.
So all you actually achieve is the old hack to come back, as 2 years ago you couldn't see those additional info in local. Some alliance had it before anybody else and used it..
That's what I'm talking about.
Win7-64Bit here: ..\Users\<YOU>\AppData\Local\CCP\EVE\c_program_files_(x86)_ccp_eve_tranquility\cache\Pictures\Characters\Chat\<happy browsing and manipulating goes here>

death klokk
Posted - 2011.05.08 05:25:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: death klokk on 08/05/2011 05:25:41
Originally by: Tres Farmer
Originally by: death klokk
Originally by: Tres Farmer
Originally by: death klokk
Will you(ccp), just remove standings from local? Meaning no red icons, no blue icons, no WT icons, no fleet icons, no alliance icons, skulls etc...
*snip*

You do know that you can access the picture folder being utilised for those small pictures on the client, yes?
And you also know that you can manipulate those pictures, yes?
And you know that those pictures are linked via your unique char-ID, yes?
Your idea falls flat on it's face.
Next.

wth are you talking about? I'm talking about making it so you can't just do a 2 second scan of the local window to see if there are only friendlies in system or not because of the giant red or blue stars. You would have to manually check each name... etc etc...
*snip*

The picture you see of chars in any chat window.. including local are stored on your hardrive.. you can manipulate them and the client will show those manipulated pictures.
So all you actually achieve is the old hack to come back, as 2 years ago you couldn't see those additional info in local. Some alliance had it before anybody else and used it..
That's what I'm talking about.
Win7-64Bit here: ..\Users\<YOU>\AppData\Local\CCP\EVE\c_program_files_(x86)_ccp_eve_tranquility\cache\Pictures\Characters\Chat\<happy browsing and manipulating goes here>




To which ccp obviously can't be arsed to change the code to pull icons from the server or so that the icons from the cache can't be altered. Why didnt you just say that in your original post? and by "that" i mean what you posted in yellow.

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2011.05.08 05:37:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Tres Farmer on 08/05/2011 05:38:26
Originally by: death klokk
Originally by: Tres Farmer
*snip*

The picture you see of chars in any chat window.. including local are stored on your hardrive.. you can manipulate them and the client will show those manipulated pictures.
So all you actually achieve is the old hack to come back, as 2 years ago you couldn't see those additional info in local. Some alliance had it before anybody else and used it..
That's what I'm talking about.
Win7-64Bit here: ..\Users\<YOU>\AppData\Local\CCP\EVE\c_program_files_(x86)_ccp_eve_tranquility\cache\Pictures\Characters\Chat\<happy browsing and manipulating goes here>

To which ccp obviously can't be arsed to change the code to pull icons from the server or so that the icons from the cache can't be altered. Why didnt you just say that in your original post? and by "that" i mean what you posted in yellow.

The icons get pulled of the server all the time.. the client checks if the avatar in question has made updates to his pic the last time you've 'seen' him and updates pics accordingly. There were also people complaining on the load those automatic pictures have on their inet-speed and what not..
So, no.. I don't think CCP will change that to make it even worse.

PS: all those nerf local bla bleh blu threads don't focus on the real problem: balanced and useful intel tools. That's what all those discussions actually should try to get to.. define one/two methods to get intel about your environment and get rid of d-scan/probes/map/local/overview mixup.

Ladie Scarlet
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.05.08 06:25:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Tres Farmer
PS: all those nerf local bla bleh blu threads don't focus on the real problem: balanced and useful intel tools. That's what all those discussions actually should try to get to.. define one/two methods to get intel about your environment and get rid of d-scan/probes/map/local/overview mixup.

You're never going to see that discussion because the l33t pvp "hunters" don't want there to be easy-to-use intel tools and people looking to avoid a fight are fine with the status quo.

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2011.05.08 07:37:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Ladie Scarlet
Originally by: Tres Farmer
PS: all those nerf local bla bleh blu threads don't focus on the real problem: balanced and useful intel tools. That's what all those discussions actually should try to get to.. define one/two methods to get intel about your environment and get rid of d-scan/probes/map/local/overview mixup.

You're never going to see that discussion because the l33t pvp "hunters" don't want there to be easy-to-use intel tools and people looking to avoid a fight are fine with the status quo.

To which group do you belong to? Twisted Evil
Otherwise we'd have a discussion, no? Wink

captain skinback
Posted - 2011.05.08 08:20:00 - [16]
 

if you could filter corp/alliance members and blues from the local channel and arrange it so people who just jumped in show up first would make your suggestion allot easier. but i still dont think its a good suggestion.

i dont like the idea of having to remember every red/wts name or right clicking everyone in local to show info. that just seems needlessly complicated. monitoring the local channel and mashing the d-scan is mundane enough as it is. if anything they should be making it easier and more automated, like make the d-scan more like a second overview. but i guess thats a different thread.

catinboots
Minmatar
Vintage heavy industries
Posted - 2011.05.08 11:38:00 - [17]
 

What i think what would be a simple solution is the following
Each time you use a jumpgate in high sec the crews on those gates transmit your IFF signal into the system so you are visible in local the moment you jump in
This is standard security practice done by all Factions
In low sec these gates are manned by overworked skeleton crews with older equipment and there is a delay before they can broadcast your IFF signal so you are delayed 1 or 2 ¨inutes before you are visible in low sec
in unclaimed 0,0 sec those gates are automated and to^preserve energy they only broadcast your signal after a long delay
In pirate faction space unless you have good standing with the pirate faction you are instantly broadcasted into local
And in claimed 0,0 space the owning alliance has a choice on who gets shown in local instantly ; delayed or not shown depending if they are allies; blue , neutral or red, since it is the alliance who pays for the jumpgate crews
WH space stays like it is

Rastigan
Caldari
Ars ex Discordia
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.05.08 12:09:00 - [18]
 

Congratulations, you found a way to nerf legimate players, but leave bots alone, good job!!!


Originally by: death klokk
Will you(ccp), just remove standings from local? Meaning no red icons, no blue icons, no WT icons, no fleet icons, no alliance icons, skulls etc...

Sure, it may seem like this will accomplish nothing, but given some time, complacency will set in. IT always does.

Imagine a moderately populated system (30-50) people, and someone unfriendly jumps in. Maybe someone is on "local" duty checking the names of everyone in local every few minutes, but maybe not and maybe the perp sneaks in undetected. Now before the whinebears chime in about how this favors the hunter too heavily consider this:

1. if the gate had been camped, defended, whatever u want to call it, a flashy red or true neutral would have been spotted jumping into the system.
2. Being vigilant on who's in local would have given you the intel you neglecated to check for anyway without hitting dscan a million times.

Before the hunters whine about how this won't affect systems with small populations consider this:

1. The only way you would have had a better chance of catching someone anyway would have been without having a 'local' period and we all know that isnt going to happen



on a side note: this may yield positive results against the botters.. if anything, it won't make their life any easier.

Danika Princip
Minmatar
Tactical Narcotics Team
Posted - 2011.05.08 14:09:00 - [19]
 

I too think it would be a good idea to make people check hundreds of profiles every day.

Arnakoz
Posted - 2011.05.08 16:26:00 - [20]
 

they would need to fix standings icon on player info screen first. plus, what are you trying to accomplish with this idea?


 

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