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Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.05.01 08:11:00 - [1]
 

So mining, pirating(or pvp), salvaging and industry are good sources of steady income, if you just want to grind away at it. What is missing is for haulers to have the same kind of steady stream.

Yes, there are courier contracts now, and that has made it a lot better than before, but the problem is that anything worth contracting is valuable and with it comes collateral that are just too expensive for beginner players to afford. Or the cargo space too large for beginner ships.

What that results in is that there is no real 'pure' way for a beginner hauler to make money. They are forced to do either some trading or some mining on the side, in order to generate the goods to haul, splitting their skill points.

Proposed Solution:
InterBus contracts -- Ferrying of passengers.

Both NPCs and PCs can be ferried from A->B.

NPC ferrymen who fly interbus ferries operate anywhere in Empire Space. (with fees charged to customers depending on #jumps). Players can 'book' an ticket with interbus and catch a ride on the next Ferry which operate once a day/downtime, anywhere in Empire. NPCs will fly interbus ships with no weapons.

Players can also BE ferrymen, with the right module upgrades to their ships (to make it passenger ready) take NPC or Player contracts. Their ships can be from a list of ships that can be retrofitted to be a ferry. (no freighters allowed)

NPC contracts will pay depending on #jumps and passenger load via formula, so long as passengers are delivered ontime. (Can take the form of interbus agent missions in stations)

Players can create their contracts (private booking) and post in contracts page. Passengers are anonymous, but the rewards are defined by how much the player wants to pay. These contracts can be from anywhere to anywhere.

Attacking ferries:
Attacking a ferry load in Emp space will cause SEVERE standing hit. Concord will protect immediately, even in low-sec emp space. (There are non-capsuleer civilians on these afterall!). Rememeber Interbus operates only in Empire. Exception to this is if the ferry load was a private contract. (Players ferrying contracts that are not InterBus contracts are not registered with CONCORD, so they don't have the same immediate protection). These haulers need to find their own escorts. Normal CONCORD protection rules apply in Emp space, with the response time depending on system sec status.

If ship destroyed, then passengers are killed via same percent as loot, some may remain alive in the can.
If pilot is forced to eject (abandoning the passengers) then pirates can claim all passengers alive. BIG standing hit with interbus if pilot abandons ship without dying themselves.

Captured passengers can be ransomed. Interbus will pay standard ransom amounts for NPC passengers. Perhaps have a "level" of passengers akin to the ranks of dogtags to make VIP passengers demand more ransom. Maybe use Markets mechanism for allowing pirates to 'sell back' passengers at certain stations (just like NPC station buy orders)

Captured capsuleers (this is the fun part), can be ransomed directly with the player.

Once a person places himself in a contract, a new game mechanic would prevent them from leaving the station that they registered themselves as a 'passenger' in. They can still do market, do anything that you can in the station, but just not leave the station (if they do, they cancel the courier contract that they placed themselves into).

While in transit, the player will need to be restricted as well, as if in station (but not at any particular station, for purposes of market access) A new 'in transit' locale will need to be used, with incarnia, maybe some 'transit screen' Player can check mail, and access NEOCOM, but that's it.

If captured, then pirates will negotiate release through NEOCOM. Pirates can choose to return passengers or kill them. Killing them is the same as podding. Returned players return to station of departure.



Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.05.01 08:25:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Kaelie Onren on 01/05/2011 08:26:27
...continued

So why would you want to be a passenger? (either interbus or player contract depending on destination)

Well, anonymity. As a passenger, your name will not show up in the grid. You are just one of the trillions of citizens in New Eden going to and fro.

Getting yourself to low/0.0 easily, when you are not a pvp character who can afford to fly a battleship to get to your destination. Maybe you are just a rich industrialist.

So that takes care of the demand for the service as a passenger.

Why would you want to be a Ferryman?
Easy decent steady income stream for beginner haulers in interbus contracts.
Harder but lucrative income streams for advanced haulers in private contracts.

And income stream for pirates too.

Additional miscellania
Locator works in locating somebody who is 'in transit'. The name of the pilot ferrying and the system is reported (for pirates tracking down specific people to kidnap).

Passenger's standing matter for Interbus contracts - no outlaws (-5) allowed to take contracts or be a passenger on Interbus (NPC) contracts. As a ferryman, the contracts that are available to you to take depend on both your Interbus standings and your CONCORD sec status. (we wouldn't want a shady character ferrying some planetary governor)

I think that this new market will open up the hauler profession and have it stand as its own, instead of being just the necessary evil of a trader or a miner profession. It fills the hole left missing by the parcel courier contracts which were inaccessible to new haulers due to costs and it also opens up a new revenue stream for pirates, and kidnappers.

Oh, and it also makes the situation of John Rourke in 'Clear Skies' a reality. Win.

Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
Posted - 2011.05.01 08:38:00 - [3]
 

I quite like the idea of ferrying players around. There's quite a lot here and I think it'd be better to focus on just one thing :)

So supported in that instance. Also you should support your own proposal lol Very Happy

Max Kolonko
Caldari
Worm Nation
Ash Alliance
Posted - 2011.05.01 08:45:00 - [4]
 

No and Yes.


NO:
no, Concord should act as usual, and not in low sec space
no, Players itself should not be able to use this thing for transport

YES:
yes for only one thing i see as usage (other than npc missiomning which i dont care for) - that is transporting of players Jump Clone from point A to point B.

And that should not be linked to special modules or special ships, or limited so that freighters can use it. It should work like normal courier contracts.

So, no support for this proposal, but i can see something can be worked out from it.

Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.05.01 10:26:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Kaelie Onren on 01/05/2011 10:35:36
Edited by: Kaelie Onren on 01/05/2011 10:34:46
Edited by: Kaelie Onren on 01/05/2011 10:33:03
Thanks for the feedback!

It's very much a proposal in-the-works, and actually looking forward to any arguements that may illustrate any potential flaws.

Thanks Bumble and Max!

Wondering though why you think that we shouldn't transport players themselves Max? Besides the only reason I can think of, which is more dev work for CCP. I do like your idea of jump clone transport, which will achieve essentially the same thing, although ferrying would have to check the standings of the toon at the destination so that people can't use it to work around the standings requirement for jump clone installation.

Negative of this is that it restricts people from going to places where they have not sufficient standing. If we only did the jump clone moving option that is.

I really envisioned this as a way to get from A->B, for players who neither care to spend the time to jump themselves, nor the capability to do so safely (in the case of going into null sec), and are willing to pay instead, and take the risk of kidnapping. I can believe there are a lot of station traders or alt toons that could use this service, just to be moved without the tedium of doing it themselves. And in the case of NPC ferries, which move once a day (and perhaps will not even manifest in real game mechanics as a ship, just insta-teleport you) they provide the service for anyone who ever logged off and thought, wouldn't it be nice if I could just wake up tomorrow at point B?

For the jump-clone add-on (to which I give the credit to Max for thinking of it) I think that freighters or any ship will be able to courier them. The ship upgrades/restrictions was more for live passengers (NPC or otherwise) The reason I thought to add this is because that as NPC contracts should be primarily a source of isk for new haulers, I didn't want freighter captains to come in and buy out all the passenger loads leaving none for the little guys. I suppose an alternative is to make the NPC contracts payout low yield, so that freighter pilots won't be interested. Also, the thought of booking passage in the gaping maw of a cold dank freighter cargo bay seems a little off. Wink

So let me refine it a bit more,
A) NPC Ferries run by interbus 'move' you or your clone during server downtime, and cannot be intercepted. Works only in Empire. No outlaws allowed to book passage. (like major airlines). Works as an insta-teleport, booked through station services in NEOCOM.

B) Private/Public commissioned loads are carried whenever the player wishes it. Reward paid on delivery of you or your clone at or before the designated time. Can be hijacked by pirates for direct ransom. (Like chartering a flight, and taking a charter - aka Han Solo in Tatooine). Works like a courier contract.

C) Some passenger loads are issued by InterBus. These have no players or clones in it, just passengers(mortals). These provide low end cash flow for new haulers. No outlaws allowed to take contracts. Can be hijacked. Passengers can be 'sold' back to interbus for Pirate cashflow. (so this makes low end money for both new haulers AND new pirates). Works like a Mission from Interbus Agent.

D) CONCORD acts as normal in all cases. (agree with Max). My original thinking was because I wanted more risk for the pirates involved if the NPC 'bus drivers' were present in the game. If we do not represent the NPC ferrymen at all, and instead make it an insta-move during down time, then no need to change CONCORD mechanics.

How does that sound?

Seamus Donohue
Gallente
Posted - 2011.05.01 11:19:00 - [6]
 

Interesting, but it needs tweaking.

InterBus operates under very strict rules regarding neutrality and secrecy. Any new game mechanic to be introduced should, ideally, be consistent with the lore.

Sources:
http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=oct01
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Category:The_InterBus

Di Mulle
Posted - 2011.05.01 12:11:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Di Mulle on 01/05/2011 12:11:40
Originally by: Kaelie Onren


Yes, there are courier contracts now, and that has made it a lot better than before, but the problem is that anything worth contracting is valuable and with it comes collateral that are just too expensive for beginner players to afford.





Proposal is kind of interesting (though tbh, I've seen it before).

But there is one flaw in your logic.

Anyone sane will need to insure his "journey" with the same high collateral, or he will be dropped in the most inconvenient location, make no mistake.

Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
Posted - 2011.05.01 12:58:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Di Mulle
Edited by: Di Mulle on 01/05/2011 12:11:40
Originally by: Kaelie Onren


Yes, there are courier contracts now, and that has made it a lot better than before, but the problem is that anything worth contracting is valuable and with it comes collateral that are just too expensive for beginner players to afford.





Proposal is kind of interesting (though tbh, I've seen it before).

But there is one flaw in your logic.

Anyone sane will need to insure his "journey" with the same high collateral, or he will be dropped in the most inconvenient location, make no mistake.



But surely - unless I'm issing something, of course! - if the passengers are transported by NPCs (i.e. Interbus) during DT, they will be plopped down at the station of their choosing?

Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.05.02 02:03:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Kaelie Onren on 02/05/2011 02:57:47
Thanks Seamus, I didn't know there was lore associated with interbus. In that case we should make a new set of NPC corps for this purpose, Caldari Spacelanes and The Spacing Guild, for instance.

Bumblefck is right, for moving A->B with no hassle in EmpSpace, NPC delivery shouldn't be a problem.

Di Mulle, good point, we would need collateral for private contracts that players would take, but the only reason you would use these is for travelling to low or null sec, and these contracts will be expensive anyway and only meant for experienced haulers/smugglers, so it doesn't hurt the low end EmpSec market.

For a deterrent in EmpSec and low end contracts that beginning haulers may take, we should put a SecStatus penalty for dropping the passengers off at a different location (its definitely criminal, as it amounts to accessory to kidnapping). So what would prevent pirates from starting an alt and pick up some contracts and flying them into harms way? (meaning into an ambush with pirates who kidnap the passengers in space, thereby avoiding the aforementioned penalty) This one I may need some advice on, but I thought maybe some sort of tally, of passenger loads lost to pirates. If you lose too many then you lose your 'license' to carry passengers. This license would be one of the things that you would need to buy in order to start carrying passengers, along with the aforementioned modules/rigs to your ship. This is to make a barrier to entry that would make creating new hauler alts for Pirate mains for the purposes of 'feeding' their main toons, non-economical.

Additionally, if the problem is still that every budding pirate would create a hauler alt to feed him prey, and even though we have made it restrictive to 'build up' a new hauler alt too often, the problem is still how can we prevent it to feed pirates a steady stream of NPC passenger heads to sell. (assuming the hauler only takes NPC Interbus** contracts)

Then, what we can do is the system will penalize pirates directly for attacking and ransoming NPCs, by way of putting bounties on them. These amounts will depend on the VIP value of the passenger load (which depends on the standing of the ferryman who took the contract, which also determines the reward for delivery). This makes sense, as kidnapping civilians is a serious crime and their are families of these NPCs who will put out bounties on any perpetrators. This should limit these types of piracy to only the very notorious pirate.


**'Interbus' still used here just because it's convenient as a name.

Mamba Lev
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2011.05.02 07:24:00 - [10]
 

I like this idea, adds new depths and ways to assassinate people.

Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.05.02 08:32:00 - [11]
 

So the updated proposal:
A) NPC Ferries run by interbus 'move' you or your clone during server downtime, and cannot be intercepted. Works only in Empire space. No outlaws allowed to book passage. (like major airlines). Works as an insta-teleport, booked through station services in NEOCOM. If InterBus used, then use the existing lore, (ie they move only 13 jumps from InterBus headquarters) else come up with other NPC corps for providing this service, like Omnibus, or others.

B) Player created Private/Public commissioned loads are carried whenever the player taking the charge wishes it. Reward paid on delivery of you or your clone at or before the designated time. Can be hijacked by pirates for direct ransom. (Like chartering a flight, and taking a charter - aka Han Solo in Tatooine). Works like a courier contract. Standing loss and sec penalty for dropping off cargo at a destination other than the one specified. Contracts can be collateralized. Having your ship blown up by pirates and losing your passengers (NPC or PC passengers) will incur no sec penalty, but will incur standing loss with carrier, restricting your choice of future NPC contracts, and the number of times you have lost your load will be displayed on your record (as a percentage of total successful deliveries). Players can restrict their contracts to pilots who have certain success ratios only.

C) NPC Passenger loads are issued by InterBus(or other NPC corps). These have no players or clones in it, just passengers(mortals/civilians). These provide low end cash flow for new haulers. No outlaws allowed to take contracts. Can be hijacked. Passengers can be 'sold' back to interbus(or corp) for Pirate cashflow. (so this makes low end money for both new haulers AND new pirates). Works like a Mission from Interbus Agent, passengers use the in-game items that you can move into cargo holds.

D) CONCORD acts as normal in all cases. (agree with Max). My original thinking was because I wanted more risk for the pirates involved if the NPC 'bus drivers' were present in the game. If we do not represent the NPC ferrymen at all, and instead make it an insta-move during down time, then no need to change CONCORD mechanics.

E) Everytime a pirate shoots at a passenger carrying ship (one that is fitted/rigged for carrying passengers, and who's pilot is a licensed operator, not just any ship that happens to be holding the passenger items in hold) they will get a warning. If they ignore and fire, CONCORD will respond as per normal rules. If the ship is destroyed, then a bounty will be added to the pirates name by the system. This is in addition to any sec penalty and bounty added for aggro'ing innocents. This represents the bounties put on the pirates head by the families of the (NPC) killed/kidnapped. The bounties are more (x5? x10?) if any citizens were spaced (killed) when the ship popped. This makes the 'ideal' heist for a pirate is to force the hauler to abandon the ship intact (having the hauler take the reputation hit) in order to minimize bounty placed on them.

F) Locator agent will be able to find players who are "en route" if they are in a passenger manifest of a Player ferry. They will not be able to find them if a player is a passenger on an InterBus (DT) ferry.

Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.05.02 15:38:00 - [12]
 

A positive side effect of this new dynamic in the game is that more people may want to take up the hauler career. Presently, as their are no ways of making money as a beginner hauler, you end up being a trader/hauler or a miner/hauler, but the hauling part is a secondary profession. I envision a universe where their are expert haulers who know how to evade pirates, and know the best alternate routes around space. Also large convoys of haulers moving as a fleet together, the same way convoys in WWII did for protection in numbers.

If there were more haulers, then it would help other related professions, like trading and mining. Imagine if there were a lot more haulers, then it would be feasible to contract out to haulers to move your low cost goods around within emp space. Presently, as there are no low level haulers, the only ones who take courier contracts would scoff at a 20k reward to move tritanium from Jita to Rens. But its exactly that kind of cheap hauls which would make the life of a miner and a trader much easier.

Basically, the economy needs more haulers. Good for the economy, good for lazy players who can't be bothered to fly themselves around, good for pirates as extra income.


Zaxix
Daisy Hill Puppy Farm
Posted - 2011.05.04 14:38:00 - [13]
 

I like things that help haulers obviously (Black Frog/Red Frog), however I think you may have overlooked one or two things. First, courier MISSIONS are an option for new players. LP earned can be converted to items and then sold for ISK. Second, its not really possible to be a pure hauler and make real money in this game. Third, you can already haul player passengers as clones in a Rorq.

I like the idea of having a sort of "ferry NPC passenger" mission type. I'm not exactly opposed to module/skill/hull related ability to haul players. But its a pretty complex undertaking and one I doubt they'll be working on anytime soon. Consider this: what if the hauler logs off while in the middle of a job? What if the contract then expires? What if the hauler intentionally fails a contract while still in space?

Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.05.06 02:39:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Zaxix
I like things that help haulers obviously (Black Frog/Red Frog), however I think you may have overlooked one or two things. First, courier MISSIONS are an option for new players. LP earned can be converted to items and then sold for ISK. Second, its not really possible to be a pure hauler and make real money in this game. Third, you can already haul player passengers as clones in a Rorq.

I like the idea of having a sort of "ferry NPC passenger" mission type. I'm not exactly opposed to module/skill/hull related ability to haul players. But its a pretty complex undertaking and one I doubt they'll be working on anytime soon. Consider this: what if the hauler logs off while in the middle of a job? What if the contract then expires? What if the hauler intentionally fails a contract while still in space?


Good point on the Rorq, I didn't know that actually. Let's keep the proposal strictly to hauling live toons then, not jump clones.

I intend also to make these supplemental to courier missions that you can get from the NPC CORPs. For the NPC corp hauling, I intended it as a corp that would give 100% hauling missions and have it only haul passengers. These pay more than the standard hauling job because there are potential hazards with failing the haul, as described before.

Good points on the edge cases. Perhaps we can tread logging off as if the hauler is in suspension, in a station. The haul is not failed, but if it is not completed in time, then the haul is failed.
If a contract expires or the contract is failed in space, the hauler has the option of completing the haul to the designated destination for the non-bonus standard award, or just jettisoning his passengers or dropping them off at the nearest station for sec status hit.

For readers if you support this enough to keep the discussion going, please vote so, thanks!

Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari
draketrain
Posted - 2011.05.06 09:56:00 - [15]
 

It is also called COURIER missions.

It is insanely good isk compared to risk and you only need to invest like 1 million to get a tech 1 hauler and a shuttle.

Incidentally you also do carry passengers on those missions.

For some odd reason all loot is worthless crap so no pirating there unless you just want to grief **** out of some macros.

Zaxix
Daisy Hill Puppy Farm
Posted - 2011.05.06 20:05:00 - [16]
 

Actually for those last few questions in my previous post, I was thinking of the passengers themselves. If they aren't clones, then they're real players who are essentially in 'stasis' for the duration of the contract. It seems like a really good opportunity for ransoming/griefing/etc. There are a couple of other opportunities for gaming this system as well. Though those will depend on collateral. Will there be collateral, as in other courier jobs? How do you propose this system handle the player passenger's implants? What happens to the passenger if a contract is failed? What about if the ship is self destructed, as opposed to destroyed by pirates? If the passenger can be "captured" by a pirate, what if the pirate opts not to ransom at all but hold onto the person indefinitely?

I like the general idea, that is, being able to move players around as passengers, but there are a lot of real difficulties. I imagine from CCP's perspective, the contract system isn't really designed to account for something that isn't an item, esp one that is 'concious' and using the market/mail during transit. Coming from the other direction, the Rorq has a very similar function through the use of clone vats, perhaps the clones can be more easily classified as objects for the purpose of contract creation.

Anyway. Just a few things to consider. Creativity is a good thing.

Opertone
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.

Posted - 2011.05.06 21:59:00 - [17]
 

stronly support transportation/trade thing. Hauling must become a job, a profession offered by NPCs

Sepha Chetokk
Posted - 2011.05.06 22:38:00 - [18]
 

Yep, we definitely need more NPC-grinding in our MMO where we could have player interaction instead.


NOT supporting any kind of NPC ferrying, being ferried by NPCs or any related stuff.


But I'd support hauling other player characters or their jumpclones, could be an interesting expansion of the courier-contracts.

PointlessWitch
Posted - 2011.05.07 00:04:00 - [19]
 

+1

Shaera Taam
Minmatar
Minmatar Death Squad
Broken Chains Alliance
Posted - 2011.05.07 03:06:00 - [20]
 

difficulties aside, i like the idea

tho, tbh, it'd prolly be best to restrict the ferrying of PCs to just jumpclones... as said previously, they can be classified as 'items' for the duration of the contract. additionally, they become (of course) unavailable to the contracting-PC until delivered, and there's no worries about dealing with 'concious' PCs who're 'in transit.'

+1

Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.05.07 07:34:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Kaelie Onren on 07/05/2011 07:39:21
Originally by: Zaxix
Actually for those last few questions in my previous post, I was thinking of the passengers themselves. If they aren't clones, then they're real players who are essentially in 'stasis' for the duration of the contract. It seems like a really good opportunity for ransoming/griefing/etc. There are a couple of other opportunities for gaming this system as well. Though those will depend on collateral. Will there be collateral, as in other courier jobs? How do you propose this system handle the player passenger's implants? What happens to the passenger if a contract is failed? What about if the ship is self destructed, as opposed to destroyed by pirates? If the passenger can be "captured" by a pirate, what if the pirate opts not to ransom at all but hold onto the person indefinitely?

I like the general idea, that is, being able to move players around as passengers, but there are a lot of real difficulties. I imagine from CCP's perspective, the contract system isn't really designed to account for something that isn't an item, esp one that is 'concious' and using the market/mail during transit. Coming from the other direction, the Rorq has a very similar function through the use of clone vats, perhaps the clones can be more easily classified as objects for the purpose of contract creation.

Anyway. Just a few things to consider. Creativity is a good thing.


Ah, I see.

Well my current thinking that I touched on briefly somewhere earlier in the thread, was that the 'traveling' player will only have access to something like a modified station interface. With access to NEOCOM, and markets and mail and such. This is assuming the haul is going as planned. If the haul is hijacked and the player is kidnapped, he is stuck here until the pirate releases them, or kills them They have to be able to PAY the ransom aferall (access to wallet). They have the option of killing themselves if they like (avoids any problems with pirates who can hold players indefinitely in limbo.) They obviously lose all implants if they die. With upcoming Incarna designs, something like this 'in transit' interface may be fleshed out even more, with characters being trapped on a pirate cell, unable to leave, etc etc. But I'll leave the future possibilities that incarna brings alone for now.

Yes, there will certainly be collateral demanded. And along with that protection, you can also specify a quality of the hauler that is allowed to take your contract. (So its not just money alone that determines who can take you) For instance, you may just want to go through EmpSpace, and you don't want to attract attention to yourself by posting a high collateral, so you post small collateral, but only haulers with 98% or higher successful delivery rate. (remember all haulers' hauling records are to be kept and are public, if they are to retain their license to ferry). This incentivizes haulers to strive to keep high success rates and spotless records.

On the topic of where the passengers go if a haul is aborted, If not picked up by the pirates that destroyed the hauler, then when their 'can' is collected by the system DT (or maybe after x hours?), then they can be dropped off at the closest station. (in storyline, say by InterBus Emergency rescue services). If the hauler logs off with haul, nothing should happen until the haul timer is expired. Once that happens they appear in the closest station, and the hauler is charged with a failed haul. Same goes for self destruction of the hauler. Except the haul timer ends immediately.

During the trip while the passenger is in the 'in transit' GUI they still have access to all NEOCOM, they just have no mobility. They can kill themselves if they wish (say to self abort the trip), but doing so forfeits the reward to the hauler. After the login screen they go straight to the 'in transit' GUI.

Shiroi Kiba
Posted - 2011.05.09 04:27:00 - [22]
 

What would happen if I was a passenger on a hauler and the hauler was blown up ?

Do I wake up in a new clone ?

When I log in do I appear in local where the hauler was destroyed ?

Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.05.09 10:16:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Shiroi Kiba
What would happen if I was a passenger on a hauler and the hauler was blown up ?

Do I wake up in a new clone ?

When I log in do I appear in local where the hauler was destroyed ?


You either wake up in a new clone if you were part of the destroyed cargo, or into 'kidnapped' GUI if you survived.

Depends if you are floating in space and not picked up by a pirate or not. If you were picked ip you will be kidnapped as described before. If you are floating in space then after a certain amount of time ( the standard non anchored can persistence time ) you will be rescued by interbus and show up at the closest station.

Zaxix
Daisy Hill Puppy Farm
Posted - 2011.05.09 17:18:00 - [24]
 

If the passenger player could 'self destruct' and abort the trip (defaulting the contract payment to the hauler), that would be good. Otherwise the hauler could delay things to the absolutely last minute. In effect, the hauler has the ability to keep the passenger player out of the game (not entirely, but anything involving a ship, which is just about everything) after accepting the contract. In the case of pirates, if the passenger player can't pay the ransom, the pirates would be able to keep them out of the game indefinitely. If the passenger player can self destruct to escape the contract and the ransom, then the capturing/ransoming mechanic is pointless, since no one will pay the ransom. Pirates could also ask for an unreasonably large ransom, guaranteeing the player couldn't pay it. Griefing will be extended to include actually keeping people from playing. And that's not good.

The core idea of player passenger travel is good, but the interesting, creative tidbits you've added on to it have some real issues. Also from a usage angle, for what purpose would a player travel without a ship? The only really good answers I can come up with are avoiding travel through dangerous areas like losec/nosec (which only protects your ship) and avoiding having to make a bunch of jumps in hisec. Autopilot handles the latter and what good is it to be in losec/nosec without a ship of any kind? So why pay someone to move you?

Hailey Sunweaver
Minmatar
Murientor Tribe

Posted - 2011.05.09 17:45:00 - [25]
 

I can see this working but would need a tweak here and there thats already been listed. But I'll give you a thumbs up in support

Ji'kahr
Amarr
1st Praetorian Guard

Posted - 2011.05.10 00:31:00 - [26]
 

I think this is a good idea.

Even if you were to make it so that Interbus actually DID something, such as offer haulers missions hauling passengers. That would be an improvement. Currently you can buy passengers such as tourists, strippers, freed slaves, etc. and sell them in another station at a greater cost. This is hardly a passenger service, more like a slave market.

Another option might be to make it so that a hauler can take on passengers in addition to their freight, so they don't have to ever fly with an empty or partly filled cargo hold. In this case NPC Interbus passengers would pay YOU, just like a hauling mission. You might not get paid until you drop them off at their final destination, or half up front, etc.

Transporting Players as passengers? Hmm. I suppose this could be done as transporting clones. There is an option in the game for transporting clones, which happens at the press of a button. I just assumed that this meant there was a clone bank of blank clones, and moving your clone meant switching the location where your mind was uploaded into the blank. This would mean that it's possible to upload your mind into the blank of any clone, just as you can check your e-mail from any computer with an online connection. It might be possible to move a player's jump clone with a courier contract.

Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.05.10 05:36:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Kaelie Onren on 10/05/2011 05:37:42
Quote:
If the passenger player could 'self destruct' and abort the trip (defaulting the contract payment to the hauler), that would be good. Otherwise the hauler could delay things to the absolutely last minute.


Yep, exactly.
Quote:
In the case of pirates, if the passenger player can't pay the ransom, the pirates would be able to keep them out of the game indefinitely. If the passenger player can self destruct to escape the contract and the ransom, then the capturing/ransoming mechanic is pointless, since no one will pay the ransom.


Why not? I'm sure there are cases where you don't want to lose your implants and hardwires.

Quote:
The core idea of player passenger travel is good, but the interesting, creative tidbits you've added on to it have some real issues. Also from a usage angle, for what purpose would a player travel without a ship? The only really good answers I can come up with are avoiding travel through dangerous areas like losec/nosec (which only protects your ship) and avoiding having to make a bunch of jumps in hisec. Autopilot handles the latter and what good is it to be in losec/nosec without a ship of any kind? So why pay someone to move you?


Well you may need to move an expensive med clone across to null sec, or you really can't be bothered to autopilot yourself across the universe before a RL vacation, and you would like to pay someone to just move you so that the next time you log in you will be there. Also, if there are options of this kind of transport, then more players can be 'pure' traders or PI or business professions, without having to learn to pilot a ship that can survive the journey to get them to low or null sec. It opens up access to different professions in the economy, while at the same time gives haulers a new income stream (or A income stream)

Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.05.10 05:42:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Ji'kahr
I think this is a good idea.

Even if you were to make it so that Interbus actually DID something, such as offer haulers missions hauling passengers. That would be an improvement. Currently you can buy passengers such as tourists, strippers, freed slaves, etc. and sell them in another station at a greater cost. This is hardly a passenger service, more like a slave market.


Yep, that's exactly what I was thinking (in terms of the NPC passenger market side of it) And if the ferry records of all haulers were public, there will be competition among haulers to have the best passenger transport record, in order to get more lucrative VIP passenger contracts. It basically makes hauling a complete profession, right up there with mining, ratting, and pvp pirating.

Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.05.10 07:38:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Zaxix
what good is it to be in losec/nosec without a ship of any kind? So why pay someone to move you?


I was thinking professions like traders, who only need to be in station or move around to maintain orders, or logistics managers -- making out courier contracts for a 0.0 corp and paying out to the delivers. In fact any "business only" professions (corp management or Planet Interaction).

Kaelie Onren
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.05.10 11:53:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Ji'kahr
I think this is a good idea.

Even if you were to make it so that Interbus actually DID something, such as offer haulers missions hauling passengers. That would be an improvement. Currently you can buy passengers such as tourists, strippers, freed slaves, etc. and sell them in another station at a greater cost. This is hardly a passenger service, more like a slave market.




Lol true.

Thanks for the feedback.


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