open All Channels
seplocked Market Discussions
blankseplocked Rothbard's Casino Initial Public Offering [IPO]
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

Author Topic

Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
Posted - 2011.04.30 19:40:00 - [1]
 

Rothbard's Casino is going public!



tl;dr
Send Edwin ISK. get casino shares. profit!

Introduction:
Rothbard's Casino launched on December 27th 2010. The casino offers a variety of games including Matari Pick'em, Can Flip, Blackjack "21", and the Mega Billions Lottery. The casino has enjoyed great success in the 4 months since opening its door. To date Rothbard's has over 1,300 registered players and gross deposits totaling 330,166,214,126.28 ISK.

The casino has earned a stellar reputation for honesty and customer service. The casino has grown steadily since inception and both player sign ups and growth are accelerating. To date Rothbard's Casino has been a privately held company. Now is your chance to own part of a premiere investment in Eve!

Corporate Structure:
Rothbard's Casino operates at www.rothbards.com. Players create an account on the website and fund their account by sending ISK in game to me, Edwin Rothbard. Gamers can then play at the casino using the in game browser (IGB) as well as out of game browsers. They can redeem prizes and cash from the casino which is then sent to them in game.

Rothbard's Casino corp in game is a shell corp. It has no assets and at present has only 1 corp member, Sub Account B. The corp has issued a total of 10,000 shares. Note that in game the corp info window says there are only 9,000 shares. This is a bug and I've petitioned about it. CCP states they are aware of the bug. They did not give me an ETA on a fix. Dividends are funneled through the Rothbard's Casino corp and flow to its shareholders.

Dividends:
The corp pays dividends weekly. The payments are generally sent late Wednesday into early Thursday Eve time. Currently there are only two shareholders in the corp. I own 7,500 of the corp shares and Zeeawk owns the other 2,500 shares. The casino has been cash positive each of the 17 weeks since it opened. Over its lifetime the casino has generated a net profit of 1.15 billion ISK per day. To date the casino has net profits in excess of 141 billion ISK. Daily profits are growing steadily.

Share pricing:
Shares will be offered at 100m each. There are 10,000 shares total in the Rothbard's Casino corp. Today I am offering 200 of those share for sale. Investors in my previous three public offerings are given preference. Similar to my earlier offerings there is a maximum purchase of 10 shares per investor. If you are found to be purchasing IPO shares with an alt any ISK you sent for share purchases will be returned to you.

This does not preclude you however from acquiring shares in the secondary market. This restriction is in place to give smaller investors a chance at acquiring shares without being crowded out by the fat-cat capitalists.

I will likely give some of my shares away to friends. I will disclose publicly how many shares are given away and who the recipients are. Friendship has its rewards.

Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
Posted - 2011.04.30 19:42:00 - [2]
 

Expected returns:
With 10k shares priced at 100m per share on net revenues of 1.15b ISK per day the monthly dividend yield is 3.50%/month. This is somewhat of a conservative estimate since revenues in the early days of the casino's existence were much lower than revenues in recent weeks.

Assuming there are no negative events the monthly dividend yield will likely rise. Further there should be substantial potential for returns through increases in the stock price. These two coupled together should make for a solid long term investment.

The casino has a long-term mathematical edge on the games; however, the volatility can be very high from day to day and in the short run anything can happen. While the casino has never suffered a week with negative earnings, it is quite possible.

The casino uses a running journal to calculate profits. This means we use lifetime figures to derive our numbers. We use the following methodology:
+cash deposits
-cash withdrawals
-player balances
-prize withdrawal
+prize conversion
-misc expenses
-dividend payments
=free cash flow

The free cash number is what is distributed to shareholders weekly. The distributed amount is then added to the dividend payments total which zeros the free cash flow. The journal continues into the following week. Notice that player balances are never including as profits. Although their money is in the casino, it’s still being held on their behalf.

On weeks where free cash flow is negative no dividends will be paid. This will not represent a loss to the underlying shareholder value but rather delayed earnings.

Investors should also note that I do not take any sort of management fee out of earnings. My income comes solely from dividend payments.

The casino also runs many promotions. Each player who signs up at the casino receives 1m ISK for creating an account. There are a myriad of other ways for players to earn freebies. These giveaways are deducted directly from earnings.

The casino also runs special events from time to time. On our three-month anniversary, for example, the casino sponsored a pvp event. The casino purchased and fitted 1b ISK worth of ships, gave them to casino patrons, which we quickly blew up in a nearby 0.0 system. These charges are added to the Misc. expenses on the profit report.

Strategic acquisitions are also taken against earnings.

Ownership:
I'm advertising this investment as equity. Please note equity [stock] ownership in Rothbard's Casino doesn't exactly mirror a RL company. This offering has some bond-like qualities to it as well. Since the casino website operates out of game it's not possible to secure this investment.

The corp is only a shell corp. It contains no assets. The corp is only used as a mechanism for distributing dividends to shareholders. Unlike in RL your shares of stock are not buying you any underlying assets. In this instance the shares should be considered a "right to dividend future dividend payments" and not much more.

If shareholders hold a vote and oust me (or my alt) from the corp, the shareholders will not gain control of the casino, the domain name, or the source code. They only gain control of the in game corporation which holds no assets.

This makes equity very different than RL equities. The shares are only a commitment to an income stream. There is nothing backing them besides my word. If I decided to simply stop sending dividend payments shareholders would hold little recourse to recover their losses. I mention this to be clear about the structure of this offering.

Your ownership of shares does not grant power to dictate how I run the casino. If the shareholders start a vote (and it passes) demanding that I make some change it will not be binding. If you don't like the management your best recourse is to liquidate your shares.

Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
Posted - 2011.04.30 19:44:00 - [3]
 

Length of Investment:
I plan to run this in perpetuity. Like most RL corps I plan to run this for "the foreseeable future." I don't have any wind down or transfer plans because I'm not planning either. If/when I decide to make a change a public discussion will commence.

In the event that I sold the casino I would institute a share repurchase for all outstanding shares offering them the appropriate amount based on the share price. I would ensure current shareholders received their compensation before the new owner took control of the casino. It would then be up to the new owners whether they wanted to reissue shares.

Secondary Market:
Players who wish to buy or sell their shares can do so in this thread. Unfortunately there is no way to trade shares securely in game. If you wish, however, I will be happy to act as a 3rd party between buyers and sellers of Rothbard's Casino shares.

Please do not send shares unannounced. There are no wallet entries when you send or receive shares. If you send shares without notifying me first I have no way to tell who the shares came from. Please contact me in game if you would like me to act as a third party for your shares transaction.

You are not required to use me or this thread to trade casino shares. You are welcome to do that in private if you prefer. If you get defrauded by another party however I will not accept responsibility for your loss.

In addition when either Zeeawk or myself buy or sell shares it will be noted in this thread. It's often a warning sign when principle investors in a company start unloading their stock and this way it will help increase transparency in the corp. I will also maintain a google docs spreadsheet that will list total number of outstanding shares, the shareholder names, and the number of shares they each hold. This will likely only be done quarterly.

Dilution:
There will be no share dilution. I believe strongly in preserving shareholder value. Therefore if a vote is created to create new shares those new shares will be distributed to the existing shareholders. This means that whatever % of the casino you own you will always enjoy that amount of ownership.

Reporting:
I also believe strongly in transparency. I will maintain a google docs spreadsheet that will list each of the weekly dividend payments. I will probably only update this spreadsheet quarterly unless someone would like to take on that role. I will also probably put together a quarterly report for shareholder with a brief rundown of the state of affairs at the casino.

Risks:
Please note that expected returns listed above are by no means guaranteed. In the worst-case scenario your shares could drop to zero in value.

There are many risks to your investment. There are competitors in the gaming market and it's possible a current or future one will siphon off substantial numbers of customers. It's possible that the server could be rooted. The casino could suffer some permanently damaging public relations fiasco. Players could also find and exploit potential bugs.

CCP has long been touting their walking in stations. At this years fan fest they even alluded to their desire to bring gambling directly into Eve. It's possible that CCP will decide to internalize gambling and become "The" casino. It's not at all clear to me whether these in station casinos would be run by players or CCP.

Of course CCP has been talking about this for about as long as Eve has been around and at the rate they complete stuff it could be forever before we see. Also CCP are the guys who brought you ice mining and POS anchoring times thus it's quite possible they would blackjack about as boring as waiting for your freighter to align.

Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
Posted - 2011.04.30 19:46:00 - [4]
 

Although it's possible that either Zeeawk or I could meet an untimely end, it's very unlikely that both of us will end up dead anytime soon. We live in different states and neither of us uses public transit so we should be relatively safe from the typical early-death scenarios.

There is zero risk of being scammed by me. Nevertheless you should strongly take trust into consideration before sending any ISK. Unfortunately there's no way to create scam-proof investments in Eve because of the weak game mechanics regarding corporate assets. Further, since Rothbard's Casino server operates outside of Eve there's absolutely no way to secure your investment.

I handle billions of ISK in transactions every single day. I have never had a single legitimate complaint from any of my 1,300+ customers that I scammed or defrauded them. In addition I do a lot of trading in game and although my stuff is expensive I've never once been accused of running a scam.

Further, I run a loan business where players send me their items at 25% under market value. They always receive their items back just as they sent them to me. Lastly, I have acted as a third party for many player-to-player transactions in game. All of these transactions have gone smoothly.

My best advice is if you don't trust the person you are sending your money to don't send the ISK.

About the owners:
Both Zeeawk and I started playing eve in 2004. You can check the corp histories for Zeeawk and my original Character Veronica SP to see our birth dates and common corp histories. We have both had long breaks from over the years. We've been friends for close to 20 years. We've been to each others houses. I attended his wedding. We currently reside in different states.

I'm the public face, customer service contact, and marketing person for the casino. Zeeawk is the technical person for Rothbard's. We are an effective team.

I control two Eve accounts.

account #1:
Edwin Rothbard, CEO & founder Interstellar Arbitrage [21m sp]
Sub Account B, CEO & founder Rothbard's Casino [zero sp]
Jasmine Vernora, CEO & founder Rothbards Casino [zero sp]


account #2:
Veronica SP, founder VSP Corp. [49m sp] (My original character)
Heather Cruise, Director VSP Corp. [zero sp]
Angelina Sparks, CEO EveOnline Casino [zero sp]


Zeeawk controls one account. Both of his alt are zero-skilled characters. I'll leave it up to him whether he would like the reveal those characters.

Neither of us controls accounts beyond the ones listed above. Neither of us has bought or sold characters.

Qualifications:
1) I own/operate Rothbard's Casino.
2) I engage in contract trading. google docs.
3) I run a collateralized loan business here.

I also have three previous public offerings:
5b [equity]
1b [bond]
100m [bond]

Chakirari
Posted - 2011.04.30 19:47:00 - [5]
 

I am not sure if this is you cashing out your rep, but I'll take a chance.

Reserve me 10 shares. I'll send the money later today.

Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
Posted - 2011.04.30 19:48:00 - [6]
 

Auditing & verification of assets:
I have listed all 6 of my characters (links above) on eve board. I have a substantial liquidity position in addition to many illiquid assets. I have no outstanding debts. You can also check the contracting history for all 6 of my characters to cross referenced to the above linked spreadsheet to verify my in game trading business.

I invite you to review my casino, investment, and loan threads to see what others have to say about my various business concerns. A 3rd party audit would just confirm information that I've already made publicly available. My entire business model is predicated on trust from my customers.

Purchasing shares:
You may send your ISK to me, Edwin Rothbard, for share purchases at any time. Please don’t put the words “Casino” and/or “Deposit” in your reason code otherwise your money will be deposited into your casino account!

Previous investors will be given priority on shares purchases. Each share costs 100m ISK. There is a maximum of 10 shares per investor. Pilots using alts to purchase shares will have their ISK returned.

The IPO will run for 1 week. If the IPO fails to attract 20b in total investment those who have already committed funds will be given the option to purchase the remaining shares. If all 20b in shares still fail to sell all ISK will be returned and no shares distributed. As soon as all shares are sold and ISK received the shares will be distributed in game. Interest payments will continue to be paid on late Wednesday or early Thursday each week.

FAQ:
This is just a big scam like T4U or Ebank right?
No. Both were relatively poor business models run by crooks. This is neither. At its height T4U had roughly 450b ISK in public investments and was generating "only" 150m ISK in profits per day. By comparison Rothbard's is running on 0b in public funds and is generating 1.15b ISK per day.

Interestingly, pilots were accepting approx. 1%/month ROI on their T4U shares and purchased them to the tune of 450b ISK. Plus I'm not a crook. Ebank was paying higher dividends than T4U, but has numerous problems with its business structure. That coupled with the fact that it was massive fraud doesn't help any.

You have money, why are you borrowing more?
There are many reasons to borrow money. Being broke or scamming are typical reasons in Eve to borrow money. I'm not typical. I have other motivations.

What are you going to do with the money I send you?
This is another area where this venture differs from RL IPOs. Your money isn't going to the casino - It's going to me. I'm selling you some of my rights to future earnings. I get my earnings early while you will get your earnings later plus additional interest and share price appreciation.

Why don't you virtualize your shares?
I considered this. I could have made my own virtualized exchange, but that would distract me from running the casino. I also considered using one of the other virtualized exchanges, but decided against them for a number of reasons. There are upsides to virtual shares, but I prefer the in game shares+dividends.

10,000 shares x 100m share price is 1T ISK valuation. You are joking right?
No. People are buying T2 BPOs with negative rates or return for billions (or 10s of billions) of ISK. Others are buying T2 BPOs with ROIs of 2 or 3% per annum. I believe 3.5% ROI per month is reasonable. The 3.5% excludes any additional money realized from share price appreciation.

When the new forums return I will do my best to transfer the info in this thread to the new forums.

Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
Posted - 2011.04.30 19:50:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Edwin Rothbard on 07/05/2011 20:11:00
edit: I removed the list of shareholders because it was already out of date due to various sales in the secondary market. Moving forward the 3rd party will publish reports of share ownership.

Syds Sinclair
Posted - 2011.04.30 19:51:00 - [8]
 

..ISK is going to be used for volatile casino business and to compensate for a growing user base?

Brock Nelson
Posted - 2011.04.30 19:51:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Brock Nelson on 30/04/2011 19:52:20
Holy ****, 1 trillion?

Tutskii
Posted - 2011.04.30 19:52:00 - [10]
 

I will take 10 shares, Roth. Your work on screenshots is very impressive indeed.

Gatan Hahran
Posted - 2011.04.30 19:52:00 - [11]
 

I take 10 shares and reserve another 60 shares in case there are not enough investors showing up.

Moto Akimoto
Posted - 2011.04.30 19:52:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Moto Akimoto on 30/04/2011 20:43:03
10 shares, please. Thanks, Edwin

1 Billion isk sent (2 separate transfers). Btw, the ticker is "DBLDW", correct?

Brock Nelson
Posted - 2011.04.30 19:53:00 - [13]
 

5 shares for me

egola
Amarr
Posted - 2011.04.30 19:56:00 - [14]
 

put me down for 10 shares

RAW23
Posted - 2011.04.30 19:58:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: RAW23 on 30/04/2011 19:58:48
The comparison to T4U isn't really valid. T4U held assets equal to the investments made (roughly), so all dividends were profit. In this case, investors' isk will be gone on day one of their investment and it will take three years for them to earn their initial capital back. If I understand this correctly, investors will effectively make nothing in the first three years and will then start to earn profits on their investment only after the break even point.

Brock Nelson
Posted - 2011.04.30 20:02:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Brock Nelson on 30/04/2011 20:03:00
Actually cancel my reservation please
Quote:

The casino uses a running journal to calculate profits. This means we use lifetime figures to derive our numbers. We use the following methodology:
+cash deposits
-cash withdrawals
-player balances
-prize withdrawal
+prize conversion
-misc expenses
-dividend payments
=free cash flow


What kind of misc expenses?

Quote:

You have money, why are you borrowing more?
There are many reasons to borrow money. Being broke or scamming are typical reasons in Eve to borrow money. I'm not typical. I have other motivations.


So whats your motivation?

Quote:
10,000 shares x 100m share price is 1T ISK valuation. You are joking right?
No. People are buying T2 BPOs with negative rates or return for billions (or 10s of billions) of ISK. Others are buying T2 BPOs with ROIs of 2 or 3% per annum. I believe 3.5% ROI per month is reasonable. The 3.5% excludes any additional money realized from share price appreciation.


T2 BPO has nothing to do with how you value your IPO at 1 trillion.

Brock Nelson
Posted - 2011.04.30 20:27:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Brock Nelson on 30/04/2011 20:28:17
1. What happens if you get hit by the bus?
2. What happens if someone wins big?
3. Audit? Saying that your wallet size been on eveboard isn't enough to prove that you're actually making 1-2b per day.
4. T2 BPO may have bad return or negative return but at least you have a BPO.
5. Almost all Casino IPO/Bond has failed/scammed in the past, how is yours any different?
6. Whats your motivation? Making 2b in profit everyday and then all of sudden, you want shareholders?
7. This IPO is entirely based on trust and I think trust is a commonity that isn't worth much these days (see cosmoray, bad bobby, ricdic, etc)

Frenden Dax
Dax Acquisitions
Posted - 2011.04.30 20:33:00 - [18]
 

This is interesting.

A 1T valuation for this is ludicrous. You have no assets to speak of, nothing that can be locked down, and no proof that your income or cash reserves are what you stated. API release to a known auditor would be (in my opinion) a necessary precondition to any further discussion here.

Historically, EVE casinos and betting-related offerings have either closed because of potential exploits, failed because of operator incompetence, or been shown to be outright scams. And those are just the ones I can remember.

These precedents, combined with the lack of any security whatsoever for your offering, leads me to conclude that it is at best on the level of a lowsec moon-mining operation.

Khanid Voltar
Night's Dawn Investment Fund
Posted - 2011.04.30 20:34:00 - [19]
 

I would like to reserve 10 shares, but I cannot send the isk until tomorrow.

Please advise if this is acceptable.

KV

Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
Posted - 2011.04.30 21:02:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Khanid Voltar
I would like to reserve 10 shares, but I cannot send the isk until tomorrow.

Please advise if this is acceptable.

KV


Yes that should be fine.

I've already received 2.8b isk for shares in game. There are still 17.2b isk of shares available.

If all of the shares do not sell in 7 days I will refund everyone's money as stated above. I've also had a tremendous amount of interest in game. Thanks to everyone who has sent isk for their shares.

Syds Sinclair
Posted - 2011.04.30 21:06:00 - [21]
 

..With such a successful casino the only reason for scam would be for lulz. One trillion ISK would be lulz.

I won't be investing in this, not because I think it's a scam, but because I never invest!

Brock Nelson
Posted - 2011.04.30 21:08:00 - [22]
 

I don't think he's asking for 1 trillion, rather 20b (200 shares available at 100m each)

Breaker77
Gallente
Reclamation Industries
Posted - 2011.04.30 21:12:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Breaker77 on 30/04/2011 21:15:48
I'll reserve 10 shares, will send ISK later today.

edit: While it does not guarantee this isn't a scam. I highly doubt someone with 117 billion ISK in their wallet would run with 20 billion ISK.





Syds Sinclair
Posted - 2011.04.30 21:25:00 - [24]
 

..20b now, infamy later.

(And by infamy I mean trillions of ISK. And infamy.)

Brock Nelson
Posted - 2011.04.30 21:29:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Breaker77
edit: While it does not guarantee this isn't a scam. I highly doubt someone with 117 billion ISK in their wallet would run with 20 billion ISK.


Then again, how many people with 117b in their wallet ask for 20b?

Saf Snafu
Posted - 2011.04.30 21:46:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Saf Snafu on 01/05/2011 06:13:08
10 shares for me please... isk to be sent in the next 24 hrs if that's acceptable.

saf

isk have been sent and acknowledged

thank you

Breaker77
Gallente
Reclamation Industries
Posted - 2011.04.30 21:54:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Brock Nelson
Originally by: Breaker77
edit: While it does not guarantee this isn't a scam. I highly doubt someone with 117 billion ISK in their wallet would run with 20 billion ISK.


Then again, how many people with 117b in their wallet ask for 20b?


Why would someone run an offering when they can make 10 billion isk in a month running missions?


Zeeawk
Posted - 2011.04.30 21:59:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Breaker77


Why would someone run an offering when they can make 10 billion isk in a month running missions?




Missions are pretty boring.

Roguehalo
Caldari
Roguehalo Ship Brokers
Posted - 2011.04.30 22:00:00 - [29]
 

You are running a cash cow and you need investment?

velinqangi
Posted - 2011.04.30 22:02:00 - [30]
 

reserve me 5 shares thx ed.iskies on the way.


Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only