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blankseplocked Tremor shots (dread-buff)
 
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Tarym Amouhkah
Posted - 2011.04.29 20:00:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Tarym Amouhkah on 29/04/2011 20:01:32
Edited by: Tarym Amouhkah on 29/04/2011 20:00:13
hi,
I have a simple proposal to make dreadnoughts at least a bit more useful in a capital fights.

Tremor shots:

  • every supercapital ship that is hit by a sieged dreadnought has its current movement speed reduced by 100% for the next 25seconds (not its maximum speed, so no instant warping)

  • speed of normal caps is reduced by 10%

  • sub-cap ships are not effected because of their small size



This would atleast stop supercarriers from speedtanking siegedreads and make dreadnoughts furthermore useful to hold supercarriers down.

Quade Warren
Posted - 2011.04.29 21:03:00 - [2]
 

It may not be a good idea to limit the speed to that degree for 25 seconds. A well fitted dread in siege can field, what, 30k DPS? Even with a supercaps resistances, you're talking about dealing an awful lot of damage with a completely still target over 25 seconds.

This ammunition would probably be used almost exclusively if it was implemented, which destabilizes the usage of other weapons and other fittings. Though some might say this isn't necessarily bad, it definitely doesn't balance the markets. Plus, with more than one dread firing this type of ammunition, supercaps would never stand a chance in capital fights. By not moving, they take almost full damage from all that are firing on them, not just from the dreads.

Also, would this only be for turrets or would torps have this same type of effect?


Maxx McKay
Posted - 2011.04.29 21:46:00 - [3]
 

Maybe 10% for supers and 5% for standard caps, 100 for 25 seconds is going to make any supercap dead in space, with little to no chances of survival. With the lesser amounts, it makes it so dreads can't stop a cap fleet from escaping, but they can delay it severely, especially if there's several of them firing on each target.

Sepha Chetokk
Posted - 2011.04.30 00:38:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Sepha Chetokk on 30/04/2011 00:39:13

Tarym Amouhkah
Posted - 2011.04.30 00:40:00 - [5]
 

@Quade, I think you are overestimating the effect of this. First, even a close-range-suicide-dread doesn't deal much more than 7k and other ships are already hitting (super-)caps for the full extent, it's only sieged dreads that might miss them (though we're talking about around 10-20%more damage here).

This was intended as an additional feature of going into siege mode, every ammo and capital weapon would have this effect.

@Maxx:
that's true, straight 100% might be a bit much.
10% less speed for 10secs for every hit they take from a sieged dread with a stacking penalty might be ok. YARRRR!!

(and 1% for normal caps, I don't want to influence them too much)

King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
Posted - 2011.04.30 05:42:00 - [6]
 

Interesting idea, 10% per hit stacking penalized would be far too little to be of consequence however. After stacking penalties, you could only do around 35% speed reduction, you only need 75-80% speed to enter warp. On an SC, that's maybe 5m/s difference between the max possible speed reduction and their warp out speed. 100% is perhaps too much however. As an adjustment, I think perhaps a simple instant speed reduction without any delay before you could accelerate again would be best. Make it 15% instant speed reduction per hit (no timer or stacking penalty) until the ship is stopped. In effect, this would allow 2-3 dreads to tackle an SC without ever pointing it assuming it lacks the cap to cyno out. I would apply this effect to all ships however.

In any case, cool idea as it is I don't think it would bring life back to the dreads. Even with this added ability they would be hopelessly outclassed by the SC blob. The only thing that can defeat 50 SC's is 51 SC's. And people are running around with 100+ of them in fleets.

ilammy
Red Alliance
Posted - 2011.04.30 08:13:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Quade Warren
A well fitted dread in siege can field, what, 30k DPS?
Really, what? It's more like 3k DPS. Ok, 6-7k if they are suicide closerange one-way dreads.

bartos100
DARK ADAMA
Terra Axiom
Posted - 2011.04.30 12:14:00 - [8]
 

why does everyone wants to use dreads to kill SC ?????

in a cap fight you have 20+ suppers on the field and 20SC can ALPHA a sieging dread

and you think a 100% speed reduction is OP ???

if they want to move they just shoot the dreads

DarkAegix
Gallente
Posted - 2011.04.30 12:51:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: bartos100

if they want to move they just shoot the dreads

^^ This made me laugh

But really, something like this could give dreads a better role.

ilammy
Red Alliance
Posted - 2011.04.30 12:59:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: ilammy on 30/04/2011 13:04:43
Originally by: bartos100
why does everyone wants to use dreads to kill SC ?????
Because people want that damn ship, that costs 1 billion ISK to lose and about a year to train, to be useful not only as a very specialized carebearing machine, a pass-through checkpoint for a titan, and a disposable dps on an alt for POS-bashing.

But unfortunately, SC were actually made a capital-killing machine by design. So the way 'give dreads something to kill supers' is unlikely to be implemented. But the problem with the lack of dread uses remains. They are too narrow-used.

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.04.30 13:15:00 - [11]
 

And here I was under the impression that Dreads were obsoleted by the 10-20x higher EHP and 1.5-2x dps of SC's and not capitals zooming all over the place Smile

* +10% damage per 2-3 volleys or 20 seconds whichever is less, up to a maximum of +50% when in siege.
* Repair bonus when sieged replaced with EHP bonus, preferably through resists.

Problem is that it will still not be enough to make them matter against the SC swarms we are seeing so there has to be changes made to SCs as well.

Loki Feiht
Posted - 2011.05.01 01:18:00 - [12]
 

how about a myriad of new weapon systems for dread instead, placing them in a better position to fill diferent roles - like clustered groups of medium weapons to provide fleet support against hac/bc's etc, one idea i heard that also sounded good was a sort of mini type of dd, dreads do seem a little under useful to me, i dont fly one though but i bet theres a bunch of people with them that just gather dust

Quade Warren
Posted - 2011.05.01 01:26:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Tarym Amouhkah
@Quade, I think you are overestimating the effect of this. First, even a close-range-suicide-dread doesn't deal much more than 7k and other ships are already hitting (super-)caps for the full extent, it's only sieged dreads that might miss them (though we're talking about around 10-20%more damage here).

This was intended as an additional feature of going into siege mode, every ammo and capital weapon would have this effect.

@Maxx:
that's true, straight 100% might be a bit much.
10% less speed for 10secs for every hit they take from a sieged dread with a stacking penalty might be ok. YARRRR!!

(and 1% for normal caps, I don't want to influence them too much)





That's what I meant, though. If a dread could go into siege and bring any SC to an immediate standstill by just firing its weapons, it won't ever miss. Plus, the 30k dps was only if a dread went into siege. Sorry, thought I had said that. I'd see no reason not to use siege modules for that very reason. They'd be very, very good at killing SC's. That was the only part that I was illustrating.

Nnamuachs
Caldari
Kiith Paktu
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2011.05.02 06:39:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Quade Warren
Originally by: Tarym Amouhkah
@Quade, I think you are overestimating the effect of this. First, even a close-range-suicide-dread doesn't deal much more than 7k and other ships are already hitting (super-)caps for the full extent, it's only sieged dreads that might miss them (though we're talking about around 10-20%more damage here).

This was intended as an additional feature of going into siege mode, every ammo and capital weapon would have this effect.

@Maxx:
that's true, straight 100% might be a bit much.
10% less speed for 10secs for every hit they take from a sieged dread with a stacking penalty might be ok. YARRRR!!

(and 1% for normal caps, I don't want to influence them too much)





That's what I meant, though. If a dread could go into siege and bring any SC to an immediate standstill by just firing its weapons, it won't ever miss. Plus, the 30k dps was only if a dread went into siege. Sorry, thought I had said that. I'd see no reason not to use siege modules for that very reason. They'd be very, very good at killing SC's. That was the only part that I was illustrating.


Except for the fact that a max skilled sieged moros fit mostly for gank will do close to 8k at a maximum, you're not getting 30k per dread, you're getting maybe 7-8k per glass cannon suicide dread, and thats "not" factoring in the speed tanking that super-capitals are doing.

I do agree that dreads need to be realigned with the rest of the capital class as they are pretty much obsolete in comparison to everything else that can be fielded. The question is how can it be done with balance. And i'm not sure how well this idea hits on that.


 

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