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Joe Phoenix
The Commonwealth Federation
Posted - 2011.04.28 20:37:00 - [31]
 

They can try..

Marchocias
Posted - 2011.04.28 20:51:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Joe Phoenix
Spending the money on plexs SAVES you real world cash, its simple as that, i'm not saying i buy GTCs, but my cash can be used to buy plexs which saves me cash, if you can't get that then i'm wasting my time.

How are you trying to argue that doing something designed to **** someone off is not being a ****?


I did have a long explanation of exactly why you're wrong, but then I imagined a dude with a massive megaphone yelling at a deaf monkey, so I'll just have to settle with:

HTFU.

Joe Phoenix
The Commonwealth Federation
Posted - 2011.04.28 20:57:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Marchocias
Originally by: Joe Phoenix
Spending the money on plexs SAVES you real world cash, its simple as that, i'm not saying i buy GTCs, but my cash can be used to buy plexs which saves me cash, if you can't get that then i'm wasting my time.

How are you trying to argue that doing something designed to **** someone off is not being a ****?


I did have a long explanation of exactly why you're wrong, but then I imagined a dude with a massive megaphone yelling at a deaf monkey, so I'll just have to settle with:

HTFU.


I win Cool

Danika Princip
Minmatar
Tactical Narcotics Team
Posted - 2011.04.28 21:00:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Joe Phoenix
Originally by: Marchocias
Originally by: Joe Phoenix
Spending the money on plexs SAVES you real world cash, its simple as that, i'm not saying i buy GTCs, but my cash can be used to buy plexs which saves me cash, if you can't get that then i'm wasting my time.

How are you trying to argue that doing something designed to **** someone off is not being a ****?


I did have a long explanation of exactly why you're wrong, but then I imagined a dude with a massive megaphone yelling at a deaf monkey, so I'll just have to settle with:

HTFU.


I win Cool


I'm pretty sure the 'I'm going to continue to act like an ignorant moron until you give up' tactic was pioneered by fundies. Do you really want to claim victory using that?

Joe Phoenix
The Commonwealth Federation
Posted - 2011.04.28 21:11:00 - [35]
 

Naa i'll claim victory because i'm right.

Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
Posted - 2011.04.28 22:28:00 - [36]
 

Winning in an internet forum is like winning at the Special Olympics.

You might have won, but you're still ******ed.




That said, boss, maybe you are missing the point of an MMORPG. Yes, EvE is one of the very last pure MMORPG. Now, many may argue that the acronym stands for 'Many Men Online Role-Playing Girls', but while that may be accurate it technically means 'Massively Multiplayer RolePlaying Game.' Now let's break that down:

Massively: 40,000 players online at this moment. Beats eight, I guess.

Multiplayer: See above comment, and add: "all capable of interacting on all levels of gameplay within the virtual universe." Check.

Online: I damn sure haven't found a way to host EvE over LAN, so let's agree that this is a check.

RolePlaying: Um ... I think this is the part where your getting confused. Yep, I'm a geek and have played *gasp* Dungeons and Dragons! (though I draw the line at LAARPing, damnit). RolePlaying is essentially pretending. Let's face it ... your not an Amarrian. You don't fly in space ships. And you ain't sitting in a pod of goo (hopefully). So if none of the above is true (the very basics of the universe's rules, as per CCP), why not be whatever you want to be? I may not be able to trade a stock in real life for ****, but in EvE, I can make billions. Or at least pretend to.

Game: Ah, yeah. Another point you seem to mistake. This is a game. The universe of EvE is not real (see above comment). Think of this as one step up from cops and robbers, but CCP took care of the arguments on whether the car was in front of you when your buddy took the shot.



Let's refresh and simplify: It's a game. It's imaginary. We're playing pretend. And I don't think you get that.

Let's

Joe Phoenix
The Commonwealth Federation
Posted - 2011.04.28 23:50:00 - [37]
 

MMORPG, i like that Laughing

Only a tiny number of people actually role-play, i sure don't. The simple point i'm making is, being a **** is being a ****, no matter how you cut it, if you deliberately harm someone for no apparent reason, you're a jerk, simple as.

Marchocias
Posted - 2011.04.28 23:54:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Joe Phoenix
MMORPG, i like that Laughing

Only a tiny number of people actually role-play, i sure don't. The simple point i'm making is, being a **** is being a ****, no matter how you cut it, if you deliberately harm someone for no apparent reason, you're a jerk, simple as.


But blowing up their ship is not harming them, "no matter how you cut it".

Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
Posted - 2011.04.28 23:54:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Joe Phoenix
MMORPG, i like that Laughing

Only a tiny number of people actually role-play, i sure don't. The simple point i'm making is, being a **** is being a ****, no matter how you cut it, if you deliberately harm someone for no apparent reason, you're a jerk, simple as.


There's a common misconception about roleplay. Some feel that roleplayers all speak in 'thees' and 'thous' and talk about how great life is back in their pleasure hub. But there are varying degrees of roleplay.

Any person who plays a game where they make a character who is not them ... is roleplaying. Sure, they aren't pulling out all the stops about it, but it still is. Heck, the moment someone chooses to have a userid online that is not their name, it's roleplay.

Despite all the negative connotations, millions of people on the internet roleplay every day. So unless your name is Joe Phoenix, and you have a widow's peak and a shallow complexion, even you are roleplaying.

Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
Posted - 2011.04.28 23:59:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Marchocias
Originally by: Joe Phoenix
MMORPG, i like that Laughing

Only a tiny number of people actually role-play, i sure don't. The simple point i'm making is, being a **** is being a ****, no matter how you cut it, if you deliberately harm someone for no apparent reason, you're a jerk, simple as.


But blowing up their ship is not harming them, "no matter how you cut it".


That's the bigger argument: do decisions within a virtual space between essentially anonymous people count as 'harm'.

My answer? No. I'm not destroying your real-life businesses website, or hacking your computers internet connection. I am using all the mechanics available to me in a fantasy sci-fi game, mechanics designed by the game creators. If it causes you, the player, stress when I destroy your characters items, that is a byproduct.

But seeing as how shallow some people are, who become deeply offended at a plethora of opportunities (wearing bright colors, mentioning any god besides their own even if it's understood to be fake, or even speaking another language ... I mean, these aren't even the easy ones, like using sexual comments or harping on someones real-life race).

Yeah ... just because YOU calculate your virtual items which you don't even own and cannot truly possess (read your Eula, bro) into real life time and money, doesn't mean that this also calculates into real-life loss. It simply means you take the game too seriously.

Joe Phoenix
The Commonwealth Federation
Posted - 2011.04.28 23:59:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Originally by: Joe Phoenix
So unless your name is Joe Phoenix, and you have a widow's peak and a shallow complexion, even you are roleplaying.


Ouch... low blow!

And it might be Cool

Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
Posted - 2011.04.29 00:02:00 - [42]
 

Edited by: Ruze Ahkor''Murkon on 29/04/2011 00:02:10
Originally by: Joe Phoenix
Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
So unless your name is Joe Phoenix, and you have a widow's peak and a shallow complexion, even you are roleplaying.


Ouch... low blow!

And it might be Cool


Heheheh ... I'll admit, I'm not really Ruze!

Though being honest, Ruze is one of my alias' in the FBI database. No joke. I guess that could mean I AM Ruze, though I don't count it that way.

Joe Phoenix
The Commonwealth Federation
Posted - 2011.04.29 00:13:00 - [43]
 

I was going to use my real name but chuck Norris was taken Mad

You have to admit though, what i'm saying has merit, some people just act like jerks for fun.

Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
Posted - 2011.04.29 00:17:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Joe Phoenix
I was going to use my real name but chuck Norris was taken Mad

You have to admit though, what i'm saying has merit, some people just act like jerks for fun.


I will agree, no doubt. But I don't see anything wrong with doing so. Maybe in a game where you have to break mechanics in order to accomplish this, I'd be right by you in the gripe.

But in EvE, it's setup to allow it. It's a playstyle, and some people prefer it, and it's completely accepted in the game.

I'd suggest making a new toon and taking part in some griefing and pirating. Remember, you're not damning your soul when you do this, just trying out a different playstyle. If it don't suit you afterward, go back. But I think once you find yourself in a pirate corp hanging out and seeing it from the other side, you might realize that while not all pirates are pricks, most pricks are pirates ... and that's fine in EvE.

Joe Phoenix
The Commonwealth Federation
Posted - 2011.04.29 01:08:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Originally by: Joe Phoenix
I was going to use my real name but chuck Norris was taken Mad

You have to admit though, what i'm saying has merit, some people just act like jerks for fun.


I will agree, no doubt. But I don't see anything wrong with doing so. Maybe in a game where you have to break mechanics in order to accomplish this, I'd be right by you in the gripe.

But in EvE, it's setup to allow it. It's a playstyle, and some people prefer it, and it's completely accepted in the game.

I'd suggest making a new toon and taking part in some griefing and pirating. Remember, you're not damning your soul when you do this, just trying out a different playstyle. If it don't suit you afterward, go back. But I think once you find yourself in a pirate corp hanging out and seeing it from the other side, you might realize that while not all pirates are pricks, most pricks are pirates ... and that's fine in EvE.


If someone takes pleasure is causing grief, even in a game they can't be a good/nice person, just isn't possible, its not the way their wired.

Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
Posted - 2011.04.29 01:20:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Joe Phoenix
Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Originally by: Joe Phoenix
I was going to use my real name but chuck Norris was taken Mad

You have to admit though, what i'm saying has merit, some people just act like jerks for fun.


I will agree, no doubt. But I don't see anything wrong with doing so. Maybe in a game where you have to break mechanics in order to accomplish this, I'd be right by you in the gripe.

But in EvE, it's setup to allow it. It's a playstyle, and some people prefer it, and it's completely accepted in the game.

I'd suggest making a new toon and taking part in some griefing and pirating. Remember, you're not damning your soul when you do this, just trying out a different playstyle. If it don't suit you afterward, go back. But I think once you find yourself in a pirate corp hanging out and seeing it from the other side, you might realize that while not all pirates are pricks, most pricks are pirates ... and that's fine in EvE.


If someone takes pleasure is causing grief, even in a game they can't be a good/nice person, just isn't possible, its not the way their wired.


I'll put it to you in my experiences (and understand, they didn't happen on this character, or even this account). I was very much against pirating, griefing, and the whole nine yards when I started playing EvE. In fact, didn't much care for pvp.

But as time ticked on, I got bored. Spun an alt (or three), joined up with various types of corporations, and played it out. To be honest my original intent was to 'infiltrate' local pirate corps near my main's home and spy on them.

Out of three alts and three corps, one was actually a bunch of decent folks. Another was basically mercs, and the third was mostly little kids. But after some time and other corp switches, I started to see that even those guys who got online just to kill another player, weren't all psycho's.

The vast majority (and we're talking a solid 99%), there were actual reasons behind the killings. Controlling a local complex in the area, or holding off players from using a mission agent so that they could keep their module sales higher. Lots' of contracts (before contracts) to kill specific corps. And a ton of hauler jacking.

Even a bunch of suicides, so that you could push NPC corp hiding miners out of a system to keep them from taking resources that your mates were mining, that kinda thing. And to be honest, the few times I watched some idiot try to do it from spite, it backfired, hahahah ...



All I'm saying is that you are looking at it from one view. You admit yourself that you can't see it from the other side, because you can't understand it. As long as you take the game so seriously, this will remain the case.

Zues Brute
Posted - 2011.04.29 01:30:00 - [47]
 

Edited by: Zues Brute on 29/04/2011 01:33:04
I tend to agree with Joe..looks like the same guys are still in the combat mode without a imagination again..Ruze for one,,my idea i had Ruze was the name of the subject can;t u read??
Marchocias this is for you aswell

Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
Posted - 2011.04.29 01:40:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Zues Brute
Edited by: Zues Brute on 29/04/2011 01:33:04
I tend to agree with Joe..looks like the same guys are still in the combat mode without a imagination again..Ruze for one,,my idea i had Ruze was the name of the subject can;t u read??
Marchocias this is for you aswell


Hahahah ... don't carry a grudge from one idea to the next, bro. He who you agree with at one point, you may disagree with at another, and the other way around.

And the argument here is not about whether combat is good or bad or a relevant part of EvE. Just whether someone who attacks another player with no provocation is seriously demented.

I argue that most times there is provocation, and in the few instances there aren't they are well within their rights and the games design ... but lets face it, telling you the argument isn't really going to help anything, is it Brutus?

Zues Brute
Posted - 2011.04.29 01:46:00 - [49]
 

I know the argument Ruze..it seams your still stuck on combat no matter what..open up, use your imagination..rules can be changed for all not just for combat and the game does not have to be based this way..it could change again ..

Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
Posted - 2011.04.29 01:50:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Zues Brute
I know the argument Ruze..it seams your still stuck on combat no matter what..open up, use your imagination..rules can be changed for all not just for combat and the game does not have to be based this way..it could change again ..
\

If I'm stuck on combat, does that mean your stuck on pacifism?

A bigger question is this: if myself and hundreds of thousands of other players enjoy the game immensely for what it is and the freedom it offers, have supported CCP for YEARS as they've continually expanded the game but kept it's most basic principles, why should it change?

Do you understand that by removing the freedom of EvE, it ceases to be EvE? If I wanted another MMO, I would play one.

Zues Brute
Posted - 2011.04.29 01:52:00 - [51]
 

Do you understand that by removing the freedom of EvE, it ceases to be EvE?Ruze
Do you think it is freedom if eve is based on combat ??Grow up

Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
Posted - 2011.04.29 01:58:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Zues Brute
Do you understand that by removing the freedom of EvE, it ceases to be EvE?Ruze
Do you think it is freedom if eve is based on combat ??Grow up


Insults now. Gotcha.

EvE is freedom, because it's up to the players to decide how to resolve a situation. Don't believe me? Offer 100m isk the next time a pirate attacks you. Negotiations are a wonderful thing.

You don't want freedom, son. You want to be free, and take away freedom from others.




Let me put this in a soft analogy for you. Despite it's RL references, I'm not necessarily comparing EvE to real life.

Currently, you can walk down the street on the left or right sides. But your neighbor hates when people walk down his side of the street. By him wanting a law made to keep people from walking down his side of the street unless they have his permission, that neighbor is taking away peoples freedom to walk down either side of the street.

Too specific, or too vague for you?

Oregin
Red Sky Morning
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2011.04.29 02:01:00 - [53]
 

This argument is laughable. Agree with Ruze and the others though.

Suggesting that someone who griefs in a video game for the lulz is actually a bad person and that this is a result of a character flaw is, in short, an immature and infantile understanding of other people's motivations.

Joe, my dear chap, you really need to draw back the curtains and go be in the real world for a while. This is just a game. Further, it's a sandbox game.

I agree totally, that there are people out there who play EVE to grief and who act accordingly in their everyday lives, who genuinely take pleasure from the misfortune of others.

Valid points from Ruze brought up in his penultimate post. However at times, we grief because we want to with no gain whatsoever, not even for a lovely killmail. However, it's all wrapped up within the game mechanics and it is, therefore gameplay. Some people enjoy mining, others like manufacturing these electronic 'ships'. Others like griefing.

Your argument cannot find itself disassociated with the argument that someone who pods people in EVE likes to murder in real life. There's no point arguing that it's akin to killing in games like COD or CS since that is the AIM there but since there is no AIM in EVE, my example argument is simply an up-scaling of your argument and is based on the same premise. I know you're not so daft as to believe that. Your argument may seem valid because it is so far removed (or diluted) though shares the same premise: namely, that actions in a video game reflect motivations IRL.

TL:DR People act like knobs in EVE because you can really do anything. You do what amuses you at any given time (or at least I hope you do) and if this seems to reflect negative characteristics of the real world then one must not assume that it is a direct relation. This is a sandbox game, anything goes, therefore everything pretty much does.
Again, some people are actually terrible people, there's no denying that. But you're either too young (I'm 25 btw), too immature, or too wrapped up in this video game to realise the separation. Either way, sort it out mate.

Zues Brute
Posted - 2011.04.29 02:01:00 - [54]
 

Edited by: Zues Brute on 29/04/2011 02:08:26
Edited by: Zues Brute on 29/04/2011 02:04:38
Edited by: Zues Brute on 29/04/2011 02:04:14
Eloquently i cannot constrain myself to a subject so obnoxious as to the degree of my mentality..not vague to me

Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr
No Applicable Corporation
Posted - 2011.04.29 02:08:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Zues Brute
Edited by: Zues Brute on 29/04/2011 02:04:38
Edited by: Zues Brute on 29/04/2011 02:04:14
Eloquently i cannot strain myself to a subject so obnoxious as to the degree of my mentality..not vague to me


I think you said it better the first time.

Joe Phoenix
The Commonwealth Federation
Posted - 2011.04.29 20:59:00 - [56]
 

I think you're fairly to make the distinction between pirates and griefers.

I have absolutely no problem with pirates, griefer on the other hand, i can't stand.

Quade Warren
Posted - 2011.04.29 21:22:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Originally by: Joe Phoenix
I was going to use my real name but chuck Norris was taken Mad

You have to admit though, what i'm saying has merit, some people just act like jerks for fun.


I will agree, no doubt. But I don't see anything wrong with doing so. Maybe in a game where you have to break mechanics in order to accomplish this, I'd be right by you in the gripe.

But in EvE, it's setup to allow it. It's a playstyle, and some people prefer it, and it's completely accepted in the game.

I'd suggest making a new toon and taking part in some griefing and pirating. Remember, you're not damning your soul when you do this, just trying out a different playstyle. If it don't suit you afterward, go back. But I think once you find yourself in a pirate corp hanging out and seeing it from the other side, you might realize that while not all pirates are pricks, most pricks are pirates ... and that's fine in EvE.


I shouldn't jump in, but there I just did. I see both sides to this.

I think what Joe should probably say, or what he might mean, is that there is a higher probability that someone isn't a nice person if they find a lot of gratification in going online and causing people in-game harm. Depending on how much satisfaction they do get out of it and if they are rather tenacious at making your life miserable, then yeah... I'd say there were issues, but that isn't a defining characteristic.

It's a form of outlet. For instance, I drive like a real ******* sometimes, but you probably would never guess that if you spent time. In that, it's just an outlet, it's a symptom, not a defining aspect of a persons character or personality.

I also completely agree with Ruze. I've role played online, but he stated something that really puts it into perspective. I am playing this game because I want to fly big spaceships. I really, genuinely, cannot do this IRL (a man can and will dream), so that means I'm role playing someone who can. It's alternate, it's not genuine and as such, it'll alter the users perception of reality because they are using that 17" screen as a window. I doubt you notice too many things around you while you're playing Eve.

DetKhord Saisio
Caldari
Unchained Potential
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.04.30 06:00:00 - [58]
 

1) I would not mind this idea as long as rewards do not detract from low- / nul-sec rewards... meaning, why leave high security zones if you do not have to.
2) Trolling your own forum post is in bad taste. Let them hash it out and only bump the post if they dont.

Viktor Fyretracker
Caldari
Emminent Terraforming
O.G.-Alliance
Posted - 2011.04.30 06:15:00 - [59]
 

Damn and here I thought something for the good people was going to be something for people with 5.0 sec status to be able to buy a "Pirate hunting license" that would allow you to destroy ships of those below a certain sec status in low sec space without any hit to legal status.

In short allow the Anti-Pirate to act as an arm of the Law, where the Law lacks resources to enforce it.

Danika Princip
Minmatar
Tactical Narcotics Team
Posted - 2011.04.30 11:25:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker
Damn and here I thought something for the good people was going to be something for people with 5.0 sec status to be able to buy a "Pirate hunting license" that would allow you to destroy ships of those below a certain sec status in low sec space without any hit to legal status.

In short allow the Anti-Pirate to act as an arm of the Law, where the Law lacks resources to enforce it.


If they're below -5, you can already destroy thier ships in lowsec without a sec hit. Why complicate this?


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