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blankseplocked [Proposal] Capital Interdictor Vessels
 
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rcs619
Element 115.
Raiden.
Posted - 2011.04.26 23:26:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: rcs619 on 26/04/2011 23:35:08
Edited by: rcs619 on 26/04/2011 23:28:44
Edited by: rcs619 on 26/04/2011 23:27:53
After some talks in a thread regarding supercarrier nerfs, I had this idea. It probably isn't going to be a complete solution, but I am of the mindset that before we turn to the nerf-bat, we should either buff older mechanics, or make new ones that could potentially make capital warfare more interesting. Also, a little thinking outside the box never hurt anyone.

So this leads me to the point (Oh, that is such a terrible pun if you know what's coming) of this thread...

Capital Interdictor vessels

One of the main issues brought up about supers is their ability to either neut down, or outright kill Heavy Interdictors, one of only two ships in the game capable preventing a supercarrier from warping off or jumping to safety. The only other option then is dictor bubbles, but they are only temporary, and the ships that lay down more of them die if you look at them funny. Buffing Hictors to the point where they can hang with a supercarrier just seems absurd to me, it'd be like trying to get a chihuahua to hold down Mike Tyson.

What Im proposing a capital-class interdictor vessel. It would have terrible DPS, but its tank would be superior to a dreadnought's, and it would be able to equip a capital warp jamming module (basically, a bigger, meaner version of the hictor's focused point). I imagine it would need to have an ECM immunity (either naturally, or when its point is activated) so that a couple falcons don't render it useless. Its point could even be similar to a dread's siege module, hindering its mobility, but boosting its defenses while providing an ECM immunity.

What this would do is add more risk to supercarrier hotdrops, which is something a lot of supers don't currently have.

Imagine this scenario

- Group A decides to drop some carriers repping a POS/Ihub/Station with a super or two.
- Group B manages to pin the supers with hictors.
- The hictors hold on for dear life until Group B lights a cyno, and jumps in a couple Capital Interdictors along with a capital kill-team of carriers, dreads and maybe a couple supers.
- At this point, Group A has two choices. Either let their hotdropping super(s) die, or escalate the situation.
- Group A escalates, as does Group B, and what started as a small hotdrop turns into a full-on brawl between two capital fleets.

Basically, this would force supercarriers into more life or death situations, and would lead to them actually dying. It would force them to choose their targets carefully, and weed out pilots who are sloppy with their supers. It would add a threat to supers that they couldn't just neut out, or shred in seconds with their drones.

Of course, supercarrier hotdrops would still happen, since not every group could assemble a kill-team quick enough to catch the super...but the threat of it would still there. Hictors would still have their place in sub-cap fleets, and to get the initial tackle on a super-cap, but they would no longer have to die in droves to keep a super pinned down.

Just seems like this could add an interesting new element to capital warfare, and give us a shiny new captial ship to fly. It makes sense, from a military point of view. When a new weapon system is debuted, there is always a period where it is uncontested...but eventually, a counter is always made.

TL;DR

- Dread-sized interdictor vessel with a capital focused point.
- Can point down supers without being neuted all to hell and/or being shredded in seconds by their drones.

Yumis
Amarr
Element 115.
Raiden.
Posted - 2011.04.26 23:32:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Yumis on 26/04/2011 23:36:52
I would love a dread sized interdictor!

Matthias Thane
Gallente
Posted - 2011.04.27 00:25:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Matthias Thane on 27/04/2011 00:26:13
This idea makes sense to me. Anything that balances gameplay without whipping out the nerf bat should be supported.
Needs a name though, we can't just call them "Capital Interdictors." (Well we could, but that would be boring.)

P0le Dancer
Posted - 2011.04.27 03:26:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: P0le Dancer on 27/04/2011 03:27:10
While I like the idea of Capital Interdictors, I'd have to ask, who'd buy one? Regardless of the number of Supers in the game, Super hot drops are still relatively rare. Hictors have already lost out in favour of the lighter, faster and more easily skilled and replaceable dictors. I'd suggest that instead of a Capital Interdictor, a Capital Warp Disruption Field Generator fitted to the otherwise, incredibly boring, sov grinding, Dread. this way the Dread pilots can have a bone thrown their way at the same time, provided they have the skills for said module.

rcs619
Element 115.
Raiden.
Posted - 2011.04.27 04:14:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: P0le Dancer
Edited by: P0le Dancer on 27/04/2011 03:27:10
While I like the idea of Capital Interdictors, I'd have to ask, who'd buy one? Regardless of the number of Supers in the game, Super hot drops are still relatively rare. Hictors have already lost out in favour of the lighter, faster and more easily skilled and replaceable dictors. I'd suggest that instead of a Capital Interdictor, a Capital Warp Disruption Field Generator fitted to the otherwise, incredibly boring, sov grinding, Dread. this way the Dread pilots can have a bone thrown their way at the same time, provided they have the skills for said module.


A special module for dreadnoughts is certainly an option, although if that were to happen, I think that module would need to give extra defensive bonuses, or the dreads would need a HP buff. Even sieged dreads get chewed through fairly quickly by supers. Also, I still think it should be a focused thing. That would limit its use to only against other caps and supercaps, instead of basically just making it a super-heavy interdictor that can bubble up subcaps as well.

I figure the main advantage of a capital dictor would be its mobility. You wouldn't need to move hictors and dictors into position and risk them getting caught and killed by the enemy support fleet, or even just random roamers, as long as you had a cyno in system. It makes it much easier to punish hotdrops, or small to medium capital attacks. It would also be a good tool to force an engagement, since once you start pointing down the caps and supercaps, the other side either has to cut their losses and give up, or escalate things.

Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.04.27 06:39:00 - [6]
 

We're already more or less playing Supercaps Online at this point, and you want to make obsolete the only two classes of subcaps that have a role against them?

Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Shadow Cadre
Shadow Confederation
Posted - 2011.04.27 07:26:00 - [7]
 

No.... sorry but I do not see the reason for more cap ships in a cap prolific 0.0

Get more HIC's... you only need 1 to tie it down... but the more you have the harder it is to untie the trap.

Any propper FC will know that 1 alone isn't enough... they'd bring 4 to 6 or some such.

rcs619
Element 115.
Raiden.
Posted - 2011.04.27 09:30:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: rcs619 on 27/04/2011 09:33:16
Originally by: Scatim Helicon
We're already more or less playing Supercaps Online at this point, and you want to make obsolete the only two classes of subcaps that have a role against them?


This doesn't make Hictors and Dictors obsolete by any stretch of the imagination. They would still be extremely useful to any sub-capital fleet, be it a roaming gang, gatecamp, or a support fleet for capital ships. The capital warp jammer would be a focused weapon, this isn't a bubble ship. It would be useless in tackling sub-caps.

Hics and Dics would still have a role against capitals as well. Assuming you don't have a cyno in the system right away, you will need hictors and dictors to spring the trap and hold the supers and/or capital ships in place. Then you bring in the capital dictors to tighten the noose, and a kill-team of caps/supercaps/sub-caps to make the kill.

The problem right now is that only two ships have any kind of ability to tackle super-caps, and it is entirely possible for supers to kill these ships and weasel their way out of a sprung trap. All it does is add an extra line of security, and more of an incentive for supercarrier and titan pilots to be a little less reckless with their toys.

biggie fluffy
Posted - 2011.05.02 19:10:00 - [9]
 

I love this idea.!


do we need a new ships for this, or just a new module?
Maybe jsut a capital mod, that can be used on any capital ship?

Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Posted - 2011.05.02 19:41:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Bagehi on 02/05/2011 19:41:17
An easier solution would be making it harder for a super to kill HICs. As has been said, why would someone fly a HIC? Make them useful as anti-supers and multiple problems are solved.

1. Make a HIC immune to neuts when the super point is active.

2. Give the HIC an HP buff when the super point is active.

3. Make drone bays and fighter bays separate.

These three things should change the balance for the better.

rcs619
Element 115.
Raiden.
Posted - 2011.05.03 02:53:00 - [11]
 

Quote:
An easier solution would be making it harder for a super to kill HICs. As has been said, why would someone fly a HIC? Make them useful as anti-supers and multiple problems are solved.


Buffing up a cruiser to be able to effectively fight a ship ten times its size and dozens of times its cost is just absurd. The main role of a HIC was always sub-capital fleet warfare. Being able to tackle supercaps was just a neat secondary function they could do back when supers were motherships and did no damage, and when titan doomsdays were laughably weak.

Times have changed though, and that's why I think we need a different solution.

Quote:
1. Make a HIC immune to neuts when the super point is active.

2. Give the HIC an HP buff when the super point is active.


Both of these would affect its capabiltiies in the sub-capital battles that make up the Hictors' primary role.

The neut immunity just doesn't make sense. Supers and titans are immune to ewar and you can still nuet them, and sieged dreads can also be neuted. A cruiser being randomly immune to a specific type of ewar that even ewar-immune ships are vulnerable to just seems odd.

Quote:
I love this idea.!

do we need a new ships for this, or just a new module?
Maybe jsut a capital mod, that can be used on any capital ship?


I think you'd need a specialty ship for this role. Either a new class of capitals, or tech-2 dreadnoughts.



 

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