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Brooklyn Decker
Posted - 2011.04.20 16:46:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Brooklyn Decker on 20/04/2011 16:46:30
If you play eve you realize it has many flaws that are hard to roll play around. I am just going to list a few things I have been thinking about, whether or not they are plausible is a whole new story. CCP claims to listen to what we have to say so lets see what responses I get...Arrow

  • Where are the missile launchers? Eve has turrets why not launchers?

  • The stations in eve are too small to fit a dread inside let alone the countless ships it has inside. The relative sizes of stations needs to be fixed.

  • Shouldn't stations like Jita 4-4 and Amarr be upgraded to some mega station since they are major hubs? This would be cool IMO.

  • Dreads should be able to effectively engage the class below them. Just as bs's can engage BCs and Moms can engage dreads. Also would be nice to see the whole siege module redone to benefit the use of dreads outside of siege.
  • locking time is a stupid in game concept. In the real world it takes a matter of milliseconds for an modern fighter jet to lock-onto another from pretty crazy distances, Let alone Aegis lock onto a rouge satellite. Why does a large ship that theoretically houses very advanced sensors take 30 seconds to lock a frigate sized ship as big as a football field. this needs fixing.
  • I am sick of the same old ships. After all of the years eve has been around you would think CCP would have come out with many new ship deigns since 2003. I miss the mystery that surrounded the ships when I first started playing. Would be nice to see some of those EVE starship contest ships implemented sooner than SOON TM. AKA 5 years.Very Happy
  • A new warp effect. Possibly like in Star Wars where the stars all pop out. I think that would bring a new level of awesomeness to eve.Twisted Evil
Now this stuff might be a bit over the top for eve. But maybe 5 years down the road.
  • Kinetic energy seems to be non existent in space. If a Crow was traveling at 8km/s and impacted the side of a battleship i feel the kinetic energy would totally obliterate the two. This is another very hard problem to address that i don't blame CCP for but would be nice to see some improvement.
  • Why is there an up in space and why is everything oriented in the same direction. I understand that this would be EXTREMELY hard to do but its just something to think about that would bring a whole new level of reality to eve.
I hope I don't have to bump this the rest of this year to get some CCP comments. If CCP wants to bring in many new people and get the title Sci-fi Simulator they so crave they will need some of these features. P.S. ILU CCP!!!


I know there are some engrish teachers out there and i apoligize in advance for my lack of grammar

elnukeo
Minmatar
Heretic Army
Posted - 2011.04.21 14:45:00 - [2]
 

+1


ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Posted - 2011.04.21 19:44:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Brooklyn Decker

  • locking time is a stupid in game concept. In the real world it takes a matter of milliseconds for an modern fighter jet to lock-onto another from pretty crazy distances, Let alone Aegis lock onto a rouge satellite. Why does a large ship that theoretically houses very advanced sensors take 30 seconds to lock a frigate sized ship as big as a football field. this needs fixing.



I agree with almost everything you said... except this one. There is a good reason why this one is the way it is:

Game Balance.

The idea behind this is that larger classes of ship shouldn't obsolete smaller classes. Each ship has a [more or less] defined role/specialty and a series of weakness to offset its strengths.
For example:
- smaller ships are mobile, agile, and have quick locking times. But, they tend to lack in offensive and defensive abilities.
- larger ships have massive tanks, firepower, and are far more adaptable to a wider range of situations (via more CPU/Powergrid and high/mid/low slots). However, they are cumbersome to wield in battle and are significantly slower at a number of things (i.e. they can't lock all that fast).

Now if you take away one of the weaknesses of larger ships (the "slowness") you'd be giving large ships a major advantage over it's smaller brethren. This would make people question why they should bother with small ships at all.

Cyriel Longinus
Caldari
XERCORE
Posted - 2011.04.21 20:05:00 - [4]
 

Reply Part I ...
Originally by: Brooklyn Decker
CCP claims to listen to what we have to say
Several CCP Developers were in local on Duality interacting with players, soliciting feedback and taking notes on suggestions.
Personally, the best response time for a bug reported by me has been ten seconds.
Originally by: Brooklyn Decker
  • Where are the missile launchers? Eve has turrets why not launchers?

Mentioned at Fanfest 2011. Has been put into a long queue.
Originally by: Brooklyn Decker
  • The stations in eve are too small to fit a dread inside let alone the countless ships it has inside. The relative sizes of stations needs to be fixed.
  • Shouldn't stations like Jita 4-4 and Amarr be upgraded to some mega station since they are major hubs? This would be cool IMO.

Was asked at Fanfest. Was noted by Devs. See comment about long queue.
Originally by: Brooklyn Decker
  • Dreads should be able to effectively engage the class below them. Just as bs's can engage BCs and Moms can engage dreads. Also would be nice to see the whole siege module redone to benefit the use of dreads outside of siege.

No they shouldn't. They are siege weapons not anti-ship platforms. The Dreadnaught was designed to tear down massive defense structures.

For the same reasons that even modern real world navies travel in fleets. Each ship is specialized to perform a role within the fleet. If every real world super carrier was able to standalone handle all combatants and all tactical situations, navies would consist of just super carriers.

If Dreds were made to be a swiss army knife platform of destruction and if lock times were equal, it would be game over for any hope of diversity and small gang warfare. The game would be renamed "Dreds Online".
Originally by: Brooklyn Decker
  • locking time is a stupid in game concept. In the real world it takes a matter of milliseconds for an modern fighter jet to lock-onto another from pretty crazy distances, Let alone Aegis lock onto a rouge satellite. Why does a large ship that theoretically houses very advanced sensors take 30 seconds to lock a frigate sized ship as big as a football field. this needs fixing.

In space, signals and even light does not travel undisturbed. Science Fact. Here on earth and even where satellites orbit we are protected by strong magnetic fields from a list reaching into the unknown, of bad stuff that would distort a radio signal or kill a living organism. You are also assuming that cosmic conditions of New Eden are very similar to the habitable zone within our own solar system.


Forum Alting
Posted - 2011.04.21 20:06:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Forum Alting on 21/04/2011 20:12:46
Originally by: Brooklyn Decker

  • Where are the missile launchers? Eve has turrets why not launchers?


  • I am sick of the same old ships. After all of the years eve has been around you would think CCP would have come out with many new ship deigns since 2003. I miss the mystery that surrounded the ships when I first started playing. Would be nice to see some of those EVE starship contest ships implemented sooner than SOON TM. AKA 5 years.


  • Kinetic energy seems to be non existent in space. If a Crow was traveling at 8km/s and impacted the side of a battleship i feel the kinetic energy would totally obliterate the two. This is another very hard problem to address that i don't blame CCP for but would be nice to see some improvement.



As with the guy above me I agree with some of you points but not these ones.
In order:
1) Eve does have missile launchers. A lot of caldari ships are built purely to bring missiles of varying sizes to the fight (Kestrel, Caracal, Drake, Raven, Golem,etc). A few ships from other races split their weapons between turrets and missiles. Stealth Bombers use Torpedos and bombs (debateable as to whether bombs are 'missiles'. I say yes because it requires the missle launcher operation skill.)
I'm honestly shocked you haven't seen missile launchers yet.

EDIT: Just realised, did you mean missile launchers visably appearing on the hull like turrets? If so then I fully support that. Your original post wasn't very clear on whether you meant visable launchers or not.

2) Now that, CCP have sort of started. A few months ago they redesigned the scorpion and variants to make it look much better in both model and texture. That Caldari E-war BS didn't always look so good. And more recently with the ship contest. It's just as and when they get time to incorporate them into the game and create Tier 3(?) BC.

3) The collision avoidance system is there for your protection as much as it is anything else. Imagine if I were to park a frieghter across a station undock. You hitting me and exploding while undocking might be realistic but it would be sucky as hell for anyone who undocked. And what of innocent things like fleet warping? All the ships move around relative to each other while in warp and exit warp in one very tight cluster. Collisions (especially with different sized ships leaving warp at different speeds) are inevitable and any more than a handful of people would be a major cluster-**** to themselves the moment they arrive on scene. It would be unmitigated carnage if two fleet traveling different directions came out of warp on top of each other. EVE is harsh but this would take it to whole new heights and I'm not convinced it needs to go there.

P.S. Good luck hoping for a CCP response. The only time I've seen an official post on an F&I thread is a mod saying "Moved from General Discussion to Features and Ideas". A lot of people call this the graveyard for ideas.
You might get better luck on the test servers regarding upcoming content but there's generally very poor response in the F&I forum

Cyriel Longinus
Caldari
XERCORE
Posted - 2011.04.21 20:13:00 - [6]
 

Reply Part II ..
Originally by: Brooklyn Decker
  • I am sick of the same old ships. After all of the years eve has been around you would think CCP would have come out with many new ship deigns since 2003. I miss the mystery that surrounded the ships when I first started playing. Would be nice to see some of those EVE starship contest ships implemented sooner than SOON TM. AKA 5 years.Very Happy

The Harrier Jump Jet has been in service since 1969. Also see the comment about "Dreds Online". There would be no point to design new ships if the Drednaught could take down every ship and if lock times were equal. It's not unreasonable that the mega corporations of EVE like to profit on reliable products rather than spending a fortune to develop new ones that are untested on the market. That is pretty much a motive that transcends into realism.
Originally by: Brooklyn Decker
  • A new warp effect. Possibly like in Star Wars where the stars all pop out. I think that would bring a new level of awesomeness to eve.Twisted Evil
Now this stuff might be a bit over the top for eve. But maybe 5 years down the road.
That's not how it would work. You can look to Science for the answer why. The way you see it in EVE is almost how it works in space. It's a simple enough for an artist to understand. Objects like stars, which are actually galaxies, are really far away. The further away an object is the slower they appear to move. Objects close to you would just blur right by. I know this because I've had conversations with a JPL Scientist during a Yuri's Night Party.
Originally by: Brooklyn Decker
  • Kinetic energy seems to be non existent in space. If a Crow was traveling at 8km/s and impacted the side of a battleship i feel the kinetic energy would totally obliterate the two. This is another very hard problem to address that i don't blame CCP for but would be nice to see some improvement.

I agree with you on this one. A spec of cosmic dust can obliterate a man made object in space. We keep sending astronauts in space to repair damage caused by space junk and cosmic dust.

Overall, you gotta realize that EVE is a video game, not a simulator, if you really want space travel you can apply for a job in the growing private sector of space travel.

Corina's Bodyguard
Posted - 2011.04.21 20:20:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Corina''s Bodyguard on 21/04/2011 20:25:21
Missiles launcher: they are integrated into the ship hulls. They just don't fire from them.

Station sizes: They are a lot bigger than they look. Zoom out a decent amount (so your ship is smallish looking), then hold ctrl+both mouse buttons. Move the mouse as if you were to zoom in (right I think, I do it by reflex now). Everything will get to the appropriate size as if you were side by side. Stations are HUGE.

Dreads: agree, well sort of. They should be able to hit the stuff, but not easily. but mostly dreads are for killing stuff that doesn't move.

Locking time: unfortunately, a needed mechanic to make the game playable for lower end ships.

Same old ships: considering how many new aircraft have been built (and survived to mass production) by any major company in the last ten years (no more than 5 commercial, or 3 military if I'm adding things right), it makes perfect sense that we haven't had much new stuff in... when was the last time a large number of new ships got released? Two years?

Warp: agreed, something more polished would be nice. I don't care if we go through stuff, just make it look complete.

Collisions: unfortunately, massive grief would be the only result of this.

Up in space: the way the server looks at your ship now, it is just a ball. It can move in every direction the same way, no need to turn. What you see is related to the orientation of up to the server's ball. So making there be no up would cause serious issues. Too bad, I would like that a bit.

AlleyKat
Gallente
The Unwanted.
Posted - 2011.04.21 20:53:00 - [8]
 

The title of your thread is the answer to your question.

It simulates science fiction.

Meaning it is a simulation of a fictional world.

If you want realism, go back to space.

If the suspension of disbelief is not good enough for you, there is very little CCP can do - but even then, as soon as someone focuses their eyes 15 degrees in any direction away from the monitor they are playing the game on, this is an inevitability.

Its very hard to argue these points since they are what I call 'dumb logic' since what you are writing is not necessarily incorrect, just not really worthy of mention because of the facts already at hand to anyone else and do not really have relevance because:

People know they are playing a game...

Not you, CCP or anyone else can either dispute that fact or bend reality enough to alter it to a degree that changes that fact.

So, if we were actually living in pods in New Eden far in the future - these question would be extremely relevant, as the simple facts of life, such as 'why does the 4-4 Station in Jita manage to fit 2000 spaceships' or 'where are my missile turrets?' etc are pretty mind boggling.

But we're not.

AK

Brek Blood
Posted - 2011.04.21 21:44:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Brooklyn Decker

  • I am sick of the same old ships. After all of the years eve has been around you would think CCP would have come out with many new ship deigns since 2003. I miss the mystery that surrounded the ships when I first started playing. Would be nice to see some of those EVE starship contest ships implemented sooner than SOON TM. AKA 5 years.Very Happy



This is important to me. In a galaxy of however many trillions of people there must be on all those planets and what not, how do we have so few ships. You would think that there would be a massive amount of a variations, or even some ship customization on some level. If you look at Star Wars for example, very few non-government ships look alike. that makes more sense.

Why can't we have 10 different models of hurricanes indicating vintage quality for example?

Dhaliparton
Posted - 2011.04.21 23:33:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Brek Blood
Originally by: Brooklyn Decker

  • I am sick of the same old ships. After all of the years eve has been around you would think CCP would have come out with many new ship deigns since 2003. I miss the mystery that surrounded the ships when I first started playing. Would be nice to see some of those EVE starship contest ships implemented sooner than SOON TM. AKA 5 years.Very Happy



This is important to me. In a galaxy of however many trillions of people there must be on all those planets and what not, how do we have so few ships. You would think that there would be a massive amount of a variations, or even some ship customization on some level. If you look at Star Wars for example, very few non-government ships look alike. that makes more sense.

Why can't we have 10 different models of hurricanes indicating vintage quality for example?


Then you'll say "geez we have like 10 different hurricanes and they don't do anything different". What we need is both different useage scenarios and ships (either current or new) that can meet those needs. New space, new NPC enemies with expanding ops for newbies is where EVE will grow.

Yanshee
Posted - 2011.04.22 03:23:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Dhaliparton
Why can't we have 10 different models of hurricanes indicating vintage quality for example?


Just yesterday I read a number of threads moaning about the size of the client downloads...

But really? EVE has been around since 2003. EVE-Time is in real time. That's more than one new Hurricane edition per year...

I'm a definite supporter of ships attaining a history and a few scuffs and knocks in terms of aesthetics but I really don't think we need even more hull models. We already have variations with the T2.

Yes new ships would always be nice but they must have a purpose. If they don't do something well then no-one will fly them and it'll be a waste of devs work. It has to do something in some way new or differently and have different pros/cons to the other ships competing to fill that role.


Calathea Sata
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.04.22 04:01:00 - [12]
 

*Points to all the recent "EVE is dying" and "I'm quitting EVE" threads*

CCP doesn't care, CCP will not deliver, CCP will keep you waiting forever just for your subs.

Glyken Touchon
Gallente
Independent Alchemists
Posted - 2011.04.22 10:39:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Calathea Sata
*Points to all the recent "EVE is dying" and "I'm quitting EVE" threads*

CCP doesn't care, CCP will not deliver, CCP will keep you waiting forever just for your subs.


Aren't they all yours?

Calathea Sata
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.04.22 11:01:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Glyken Touchon
Originally by: Calathea Sata
*Points to all the recent "EVE is dying" and "I'm quitting EVE" threads*

CCP doesn't care, CCP will not deliver, CCP will keep you waiting forever just for your subs.


Aren't they all yours?
Nope.

Cyriel Longinus
Caldari
XERCORE
Posted - 2011.04.22 18:57:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Cyriel Longinus on 22/04/2011 18:59:42


Originally by: Calathea Sata
*Points to all the recent "EVE is dying" and "I'm quitting EVE" threads*

CCP doesn't care, CCP will not deliver, CCP will keep you waiting forever just for your subs.


I wouldn't care about pessimism either. I would be real about what resources are available to develop with and not deplete the creative fire of my staff by losing it in a futile effort of trying being everything to everyone. I would respond to genuine constructive feedback and develop on what is best, based on the information that is not publicly available and is the best course of action.

Ji'kahr
Amarr
1st Praetorian Guard
Posted - 2011.04.26 02:33:00 - [16]
 

I understand why there are so few (comparatively) ship types. You want to be able to instantly recognize a ship type and what they can do, that gets a lot harder if there are a kazillion different ships or even customized versions of the same ship. Also, if you are involved in a war, you want to know which ships are on your side and which belong to your enemy. Granted, some Amarr fly Minmatar ships and vice versa (Gallente/ Caldari, etc.) Realistically though, everyone in the same military would be flying the same ship design for each ship class.

What I REALLY don't understand though, is why they don't have different styles of clothes.

I mean Jiminy Crickets, no one in real life deliberately wears the same clothes as everyone else! What you wear is a sense of your own unique identity, and it's the easiest thing you can change about yourself. Why in heaven's name would a Minmatar ever want to wear the same clothes as the Amarrians who enslaved them? Why would the Amarr want to wear the same thing as the Minmatar, or Gallente? Also, don't you think pilots would have their own distinctive uniforms? Don't you think Pirates would look different than Faction warfare pilots?

Cycotic Maniac
Blood Covenant
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.04.26 12:53:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Cycotic Maniac on 26/04/2011 12:53:32
Quote:
The stations in eve are too small to fit a dread inside let alone the countless ships it has inside. The relative sizes of stations needs to be fixed.

Yulinki Atavuli
Minmatar
Caldari Investment and Security Industries
Innovia Alliance
Posted - 2011.04.26 17:23:00 - [18]
 

NO.

stg213
Posted - 2011.04.30 14:01:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Brooklyn Decker
Edited by: Brooklyn Decker on 20/04/2011 16:46:30
If you play eve you realize it has many flaws that are hard to roll play around. I am just going to list a few things I have been thinking about, whether or not they are plausible is a whole new story. CCP claims to listen to what we have to say so lets see what responses I get...Arrow

  • Where are the missile launchers? Eve has turrets why not launchers?

  • The stations in eve are too small to fit a dread inside let alone the countless ships it has inside. The relative sizes of stations needs to be fixed.

  • Shouldn't stations like Jita 4-4 and Amarr be upgraded to some mega station since they are major hubs? This would be cool IMO.

  • Dreads should be able to effectively engage the class below them. Just as bs's can engage BCs and Moms can engage dreads. Also would be nice to see the whole siege module redone to benefit the use of dreads outside of siege.
  • locking time is a stupid in game concept. In the real world it takes a matter of milliseconds for an modern fighter jet to lock-onto another from pretty crazy distances, Let alone Aegis lock onto a rouge satellite. Why does a large ship that theoretically houses very advanced sensors take 30 seconds to lock a frigate sized ship as big as a football field. this needs fixing.
  • I am sick of the same old ships. After all of the years eve has been around you would think CCP would have come out with many new ship deigns since 2003. I miss the mystery that surrounded the ships when I first started playing. Would be nice to see some of those EVE starship contest ships implemented sooner than SOON TM. AKA 5 years.Very Happy
  • A new warp effect. Possibly like in Star Wars where the stars all pop out. I think that would bring a new level of awesomeness to eve.Twisted Evil
Now this stuff might be a bit over the top for eve. But maybe 5 years down the road.
  • Kinetic energy seems to be non existent in space. If a Crow was traveling at 8km/s and impacted the side of a battleship i feel the kinetic energy would totally obliterate the two. This is another very hard problem to address that i don't blame CCP for but would be nice to see some improvement.
  • Why is there an up in space and why is everything oriented in the same direction. I understand that this would be EXTREMELY hard to do but its just something to think about that would bring a whole new level of reality to eve.
I hope I don't have to bump this the rest of this year to get some CCP comments. If CCP wants to bring in many new people and get the title Sci-fi Simulator they so crave they will need some of these features. P.S. ILU CCP!!!


I know there are some engrish teachers out there and i apoligize in advance for my lack of grammar


+1 to missile launchers, from what I gather from Fanfest it's already in the works

+1 to the stations issue:

- how about limited stations that can only fit a certain amount of ships based on size ?
- how about a player expandable station, where a corp can invest in building a new wing to it, then charge taxes for docking ? (but also paying tax for running so that others can compete) - think Jita IV moon 4 uber-station Very Happy with options where to dock
- this can work very well with Incarna too, as the idea is to give players a way to own a piece of the station anyway

-2 to Dreads & locking... those mechanics have a purpose for being there

+ 1 to the collision detection system with two ammendmends:

1) the ability to turn it on and off
2) that it's on by default when exiting a station for ~60 sec to avoid stupid collisions on exit
or 2.1) a new sheduled way of exiting stations where 10 ships don't overlap... but wait their turn... also magically obeying the laws of physics Wink

continuing next post ->

stg213
Posted - 2011.04.30 14:27:00 - [20]
 

+ 1 to warp effect & general GFX improvements... fact is it attracts new players and as long as it doesn't affect good game mechanics it's important to keep up technologically or you end up with a dying game (see ultima online... still active... but... it's pretty clear that game is not going to be around in 5 or 10 years anymore)

Regarding new ships:

I have a much more radical idea:
(maybe this should be a separate thread entirely)

How about modular player-designed ships ? Pretty much what Spore tried to do: predefined modules (racial, so the style doesn't get lost) with size limits to hull classess and logical, functional hardpoints (so that players don't add 30 left wings just for the heck of it, a wing can fulfill a special function like mount engines, or whatever, but you need other parts aswell to make a useful ship).

- this can be implemented by redesigning existing ships as modular
- keeping t1,2&3 as base module tiers
- this way you can also have custom ships without having custom pink textures Very Happy
- modules also take parts into account (for example if you want a BS class cap you also need a BS class hull that can fit it)
- on the manufacturing side, ships are anyway built from parts (t2 at least) which can be kept, as for t1 the materials would pretty much remain the same only the blueprints would be for modules not entire ships (while maintaining the approx overall material cost / volume)
- it also takes the pressure off CCP for designing new ships and also finding a role for them, players would design ships (if a design is bad it won't sell and will be phased out)
- it makes manufacturing a hell of a lot more interesting
- it allows for possible future mechanics like damage zones, as modules could be individually damaged
- it makes adding new stuff easier for CCP as once the ship-builder (similar to char creator) is in place it's much faster to iterate, and to design a module rather than a whole ship
- attributes of ships (like no. of slots hi/med/lo ; or speed, turning rate, etc) are determined by the hull class, cap installed, other modules used for construction, added parts on hardpoints, etc
- caps remain standard like: small/med/large/xxl and variations in between
- turning rates should be based on mass, engine power and placement (ex: lateral maneuvering engines, makes a ship more agile but takes power away from stuff like weapons, sensors, etc...)
- if one ship model becomes too popular, pretty much everyone will be in a race to make the next design that beats that ship (i.e. a new ballance will be achieved)

If done well so that PVP balance can be maintained then it would radically transform but also improve EVE!


 

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