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Persephone 66
Gallente
Posted - 2011.04.23 07:53:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Neoexecutor
Chribba already has one.


Beat me to it. :p


Persephone 66
Gallente
Posted - 2011.04.23 08:02:00 - [32]
 

I do a lot of manufacturing, and with that a lot of mining to support it. Only minerals I buy, if any, are zydrine and megecyte.

Something bigger than a Hulk with a better tank and more high slots for strip miners would be nice, but is not neccesary. I lose enough ore to bot miners and mining gangs as it is.

Telva Tyr
Posted - 2011.04.23 17:09:00 - [33]
 

I love mining and Industry
but i agree with just about everyone in this topic

we dont need some over boosted mining crap ship.

pvp isnt that expensive
Try scanning down a c1-c2 if you cant afford to sell your extra mats to pay for the meg/zyd
it's not that hard, or maybe find a WH corp.


Tau Cabalander
Posted - 2011.04.23 19:43:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Neoexecutor
Chribba already has one.

Capital Mining is a lie

helix darkstar
Posted - 2011.04.24 02:11:00 - [35]
 

i've seen a number of these threads over the years and they still make me laugh. people still think that mining is the main way that minerals are gathered in this game when that isn't true and hasn't been true for years. the fact of the matter is that most minerals that get placed on the market come from 3 differant sources.

1) mining
2) mission loot refines
3) drone compounds

and unfortunately for the miners in this game mission loot refines and drone compound refining make up over 60% of all minerals that come onto the market. if you doublt me then just look at the price of noxc when ccp changed the amount of noxc that came from drone compounds the price jumped up by 400 credits per unit. now some of this was due to hording but that also goes to prove the point that people KNOW that drone compounds made up the bulk of noxc being put onto the market.
even CCP know that these 2 sources are the main ones that put minerals onto the market which is why they have made changes to these 2 areas over the last 6 months to a year.

i would also like to point out that for over 4 years CCP have been saying that they will revamp mining and sort out the problems with mining and as yet they have only made a few very minor changes to mining. they have talked about,

planetary ring belts
new ore types
removing static belts and making them all scannable
new skills
new ships
ect ect ect

and to date mining has had 2 support ships (rorqual and orca) added to the game and the changes to sov where if you work a system you can get a few semi-porfitable scannable belts and that is it. now the question becomes WHY havn't they done any of the changes? and the only answer i can see it the fact that MINING is just something that they don't care about.

oh and before someone mentions bots i would like to point out that MOST mining bots mine ice. which is proved if you look at the price of isotopes over the last month during which time the price of minerals has either stayed the same or gone up slightly but the price of isotopes has shot up. the reason for these changes? well thats simple they put 14 day bans on alot of mining bots.

Steve Thomas
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2011.04.24 05:47:00 - [36]
 

Edited by: Steve Thomas on 24/04/2011 05:54:19
Edited by: Steve Thomas on 24/04/2011 05:50:33
...ow. head hurt.

dude, dont go by a 1 time blip in prices in your local market to assume anthing about Ice, shesh

local markets Ive seen globaly on ice and more importantly Ice products just show more or less the usual trends you see when wars heat up then cool down, combined with people throwing up new towers or swaping-upgrading towers

that and its more likely that while back new incomeing miners decided to go with Roids over Ice mining. some of the ice was getting so low in price that you basicaly had to be a world class BLEEPING Idiot to keep mining it when you could mine crap from roid belts and buy a lot more water, that changeover would tend to cause existing backlogs to deplete.

helix darkstar
Posted - 2011.04.24 08:03:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Steve Thomas
Edited by: Steve Thomas on 24/04/2011 05:54:19
Edited by: Steve Thomas on 24/04/2011 05:50:33
...ow. head hurt.

dude, dont go by a 1 time blip in prices in your local market to assume anthing about Ice, shesh

local markets Ive seen globaly on ice and more importantly Ice products just show more or less the usual trends you see when wars heat up then cool down, combined with people throwing up new towers or swaping-upgrading towers

that and its more likely that while back new incomeing miners decided to go with Roids over Ice mining. some of the ice was getting so low in price that you basicaly had to be a world class BLEEPING Idiot to keep mining it when you could mine crap from roid belts and buy a lot more water, that changeover would tend to cause existing backlogs to deplete.


in fact the info i gave on ice didn't come from my local market as i live in 0.0. in fact it came from a friend of mine who runs 6 mining toons in empire and mines ice and only ice. he's the one who told me that isotopes are climbing in price by more than normal and i would believe that he knows what he's talking about. also if you read any of the info on bots from the several threads that exist you would see that everyone knows that MOST bots mine ice as you can never completely deplete an ice roid let alone a ice belt. but it's very easy to strip a complete high sec system in about 4-5 hours depending on the number of mining toons you use.

clixor
Celluloid Gurus
Posted - 2011.04.24 09:15:00 - [38]
 

I actually agree with OP. If someone really likes to mine, well, why don't give them the possibility to plan a learning plan for that and bring income levels up to, say, average L4 mission income?

Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Posted - 2011.04.24 09:35:00 - [39]
 

As I see it the price of low sec ores hav been too cheap for too long. They are starting to arrive at a more realistic level.

Anya Ohaya
Posted - 2011.04.24 11:01:00 - [40]
 

Can't believe this got to 2 pages.

Howabout a supercapital "grenade" miner.

1. Warp to some roids Smile,
2. drop an old school (AOE) doomsday on them Shocked,
3. and then scoop up the ore Wink.
4. Profit! Razz

Plus it would look really really cool. Cool

Alaric T'Sun
Minmatar
Aphelion T'Sun
Posted - 2011.04.25 02:14:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Dasola

I would rather see wh control device, takes large tower and eats all of its powergrid and cpu, but allows controlling of single wh. Class, where it leads (region level), how long its open.... Maybe use some strontium to run stabilizer mode so wh stays open beyond normal lenght or regains its mass over time... One device per system...



This is a pretty darn good idea too. A wormhole generator. It could even be potent enough that it has to shut to POS shields down for a time. Make it use fuel based on destination/size/stability/etc.

Alaric T'Sun
Minmatar
Aphelion T'Sun
Posted - 2011.04.25 02:17:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: helix darkstar
i've seen a number of these threads over the years and they still make me laugh. people still think that mining is the main way that minerals are gathered in this game when that isn't true and hasn't been true for years. the fact of the matter is that most minerals that get placed on the market come from 3 differant sources.

1) mining
2) mission loot refines
3) drone compounds

and unfortunately for the miners in this game mission loot refines and drone compound refining make up over 60% of all minerals that come onto the market. if you doublt me then just look at the price of noxc when ccp changed the amount of noxc that came from drone compounds the price jumped up by 400 credits per unit. now some of this was due to hording but that also goes to prove the point that people KNOW that drone compounds made up the bulk of noxc being put onto the market.
even CCP know that these 2 sources are the main ones that put minerals onto the market which is why they have made changes to these 2 areas over the last 6 months to a year.

i would also like to point out that for over 4 years CCP have been saying that they will revamp mining and sort out the problems with mining and as yet they have only made a few very minor changes to mining. they have talked about,

planetary ring belts
new ore types
removing static belts and making them all scannable
new skills
new ships
ect ect ect

and to date mining has had 2 support ships (rorqual and orca) added to the game and the changes to sov where if you work a system you can get a few semi-porfitable scannable belts and that is it. now the question becomes WHY havn't they done any of the changes? and the only answer i can see it the fact that MINING is just something that they don't care about.

oh and before someone mentions bots i would like to point out that MOST mining bots mine ice. which is proved if you look at the price of isotopes over the last month during which time the price of minerals has either stayed the same or gone up slightly but the price of isotopes has shot up. the reason for these changes? well thats simple they put 14 day bans on alot of mining bots.


I didn't know this was true. If it is, then that is very unfortunate. So, make drone compounds a base ingredient for something (drones is my first guess). Make loot reprocess into something else besides base minerals.

Revolution Rising
Serenity Engineering and Transport Company
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2011.04.25 08:32:00 - [43]
 

I'm far more interested in CCP Banning RMT botters.

The price of minerals goes up, and we all win, no need for better barges. If you get better barges without RMT botters being banned, the RMT botters get better barges and we end up right back to mining not paying off as a profession.

theRaptor
Caldari
Tactical Operations
Posted - 2011.04.25 09:28:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Revolution Rising
I'm far more interested in CCP Banning RMT botters.

The price of minerals goes up, and we all win, no need for better barges. If you get better barges without RMT botters being banned, the RMT botters get better barges and we end up right back to mining not paying off as a profession.



The problem is the difference between a miner doing it the legit way and a bot is almost impossible to detect with automated systems. It isn't like WoW where the bots are teleport hacking to get resource nodes quicker. Mining in wow is an incredibly passive "game" where you need to pay attention about once a minute at best.

They either need to make 'roid mining dynamic or move it to a design like moon mining/PI where the actual extraction is automated and the player just does maintenance activities.

Krystyn
Caldari
Serenity Rising LLC
Slammer's Republic
Posted - 2011.04.25 11:42:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: theRaptor
Originally by: Revolution Rising
I'm far more interested in CCP Banning RMT botters.

The price of minerals goes up, and we all win, no need for better barges. If you get better barges without RMT botters being banned, the RMT botters get better barges and we end up right back to mining not paying off as a profession.



The problem is the difference between a miner doing it the legit way and a bot is almost impossible to detect with automated systems. It isn't like WoW where the bots are teleport hacking to get resource nodes quicker. Mining in wow is an incredibly passive "game" where you need to pay attention about once a minute at best.

They either need to make 'roid mining dynamic or move it to a design like moon mining/PI where the actual extraction is automated and the player just does maintenance activities.


Wrong, speaking as someone who works in IT spotting botters should be ridiculously easy. Just take a quick look at their play time. Hmm login occurs at exactly the same time everyday shortly after downtime and remains logged in until the next downtime, spends the entire time in one system repeatedly docking at the same station at precisely the same intervals over and over and over. Frankly, CCP had to be lazy to not kick botters almost immediately. I admit some botters might have some dynamic macros set up that would vary things to some extent, but play time is a dead give away. Some very easy to set up account data searches would paint bright targets on botters so...the conclusions are easy to draw there.

Also I started Ice mining again when I heard about the bot bans and wow ICE and related products prices have steadily risen. Prices are higher than they have for the last year in Lonetrek in particular.

Batelle
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2011.04.25 17:45:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Krystyn

Wrong, speaking as someone who works in IT spotting botters should be ridiculously easy. Just take a quick look at their play time. Hmm login occurs at exactly the same time everyday shortly after downtime and remains logged in until the next downtime, spends the entire time in one system repeatedly docking at the same station at precisely the same intervals over and over and over. Frankly, CCP had to be lazy to not kick botters almost immediately. I admit some botters might have some dynamic macros set up that would vary things to some extent, but play time is a dead give away. Some very easy to set up account data searches would paint bright targets on botters so...the conclusions are easy to draw there.



This, so much.

Travis117
Posted - 2011.04.26 03:19:00 - [47]
 

As a miner and rising industrialist( i do love to mine!) i support this idea im in a covetor soon into a hulk and even with the hulk amazing as is we need a high ssec capital mining barge maybe with 4,5 or 6 strip mining slots that would help mine effectively.

Dafydd ab'Rhys
Caldari
Quantum Horizons
Art of War Alliance
Posted - 2011.05.04 03:59:00 - [48]
 

Hi all

As someone who has followed Halada's guide to God like mining skills, mining was once a big part of my Eve experience, and I will still jump in the Hulk now and again if I work late so only get hour or so before DT (Damn Aussie TZ)

All I can say is a Big NO to a capital mining barge. All that would happen is the mineral availability would increase and prices will drop and we will be back at square one.

A Hulk can mine well and can tank well if you sacrifice some of your mining rate for a decent tank.

So again I vote NO for Capital Mining Ship

Dafydd

Dunkle Lars
Amarr
Lemon Half Moon
Posted - 2011.05.04 09:00:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Travis117
As a miner and rising industrialist( i do love to mine!) i support this idea im in a covetor soon into a hulk and even with the hulk amazing as is we need a high ssec capital mining barge maybe with 4,5 or 6 strip mining slots that would help mine effectively.


Mine effectively? how does the hulk not do that? And if you mean that you need more lasers to pull in more ore then buy a few extra accounts. 2-3 hulks+ 1 orca can easily pay for the other toons.

No we dont need a capital mining vessel. Or if you really want one go buy a titan and put some minig lasers on that

flakeys
The Great cornholio's
Paper Tiger Coalition
Posted - 2011.05.04 15:35:00 - [50]
 

Edited by: flakeys on 04/05/2011 15:35:37
With posts like these i wish back for the time where no mining vessels existed accept the awsome apoc and where a lot of people just mined in their badger. Wink

Spoiled kids these days.

Draconyx
Posted - 2011.05.04 16:03:00 - [51]
 

Edited by: Draconyx on 04/05/2011 16:22:30


If CCP felt there was an issue with the minerals prices all they would have to do is mess with belts to make the adjustment.


Currently belts in some areas are depleted with in hours of spawn.
If they increased the amount of ore in the belts then the miners would take care of the rest.
Providing a quick influx to the market.

CCP could also look @ condensing the belts to less roids but more total ore.
The effect of moving from belt to belt and shifting targets and partial loads you would think would be small, but adding it all up has a large effect on the ore per hour rates.

A lot of this was proven by the introduction of mining sites in 0.0 and how miners reacted to them and adjusted.

The creation of a new ship actually has the inverse effect on the short term minerals market.
As everyone rushes to build the new ship the price of minerals go UP not down as current stocks are depleted.

Eventually it will stabilize but there is no guarantee when and at what levels, and how long before it starts a down word turn would take even longer.
You also have to look at my first point and ask if the belts can support more efficient miners.
Considering the current prices I would say no.

So 2 things.
1. Increase the amount of ore in the belts, and see how the markets fair.
2. Then introduce a new ship, and perhaps increase the belt values again if the belts are starting to look unhealthy.









helix darkstar
Posted - 2011.05.04 18:30:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Draconyx
Edited by: Draconyx on 04/05/2011 16:22:30


If CCP felt there was an issue with the minerals prices all they would have to do is mess with belts to make the adjustment.


Currently belts in some areas are depleted with in hours of spawn.
If they increased the amount of ore in the belts then the miners would take care of the rest.
Providing a quick influx to the market.

CCP could also look @ condensing the belts to less roids but more total ore.
The effect of moving from belt to belt and shifting targets and partial loads you would think would be small, but adding it all up has a large effect on the ore per hour rates.

A lot of this was proven by the introduction of mining sites in 0.0 and how miners reacted to them and adjusted.

The creation of a new ship actually has the inverse effect on the short term minerals market.
As everyone rushes to build the new ship the price of minerals go UP not down as current stocks are depleted.

Eventually it will stabilize but there is no guarantee when and at what levels, and how long before it starts a down word turn would take even longer.
You also have to look at my first point and ask if the belts can support more efficient miners.
Considering the current prices I would say no.

So 2 things.
1. Increase the amount of ore in the belts, and see how the markets fair.
2. Then introduce a new ship, and perhaps increase the belt values again if the belts are starting to look unhealthy.



changing the belts in the manor you are talking about just isn't possible.
firstly you need to think about the belts them selfs and think about the DB entry that goes with it. every roid in every belt in every system has it's own unique DB entry and as there are over 5000 systems and i would guess over 50,000 belts with each belt having around 50 to 100 roids you start to see the trouble your "all they would have to do" becomes a major problem
secoundly the belts are not the trouble. the main rason the mineral prices are so low is the fact that as i said above MINING DOESN'T SUPPLY THE MAJORITY OF MINERALS.
i agree that a capital mining ship wouldn't help mining at the moment it would just hurt mineral prices. i do know that something needs to be done soon before mining becomes a thing of the past in this game.

Brock Nelson
Posted - 2011.05.04 19:46:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: clixor
I actually agree with OP. If someone really likes to mine, well, why don't give them the possibility to plan a learning plan for that and bring income levels up to, say, average L4 mission income?


notsureiftrolling.jpg

How long will it be before everybody who's in a hulk is in capital mining ship? Mineral price will drop even more because of over-mining because it was just same as doing level 4 missions.

Melchiades Seti
Posted - 2011.05.04 20:06:00 - [54]
 

Still, it would be nice to be able to go someplace with mining. One you can get a hulk and use crystals, there really isn't any place to go. You've reached the apex, then it is just a matter of where you mine. I wish every line had some super thing to which you could look forward and have 'someday'.

Seems to me if you want to get rid of botters, make something in the mining process at the higher end require some complexity that a macro couldn't hope to achieve. Not wanting to make it easier for botters seems a lame excuse to leave a career path undeveloped.

Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
Black Sun Alliance
Posted - 2011.05.04 20:15:00 - [55]
 

This isn't a "prices of minerals are too high" QQ is it? What I find ironic is all the people who were applauding Hulkageddon claiming that one of the reasons for it was to make mining more profitable buy A. killing off a large chunk of the mass miner population and B. destroying plenty of mining ships creating more demand for them on the market..

Forget the fact that I feel that this bump in value has nearly nothing to do with the hulkadead event, what do you think will happen if CCP try to manipulate the market value by adding more massive mining? Well, more people will get involved in mining again.. then we'll have to listened to complaining again about prices being low on minerals.

These devalue value cycles are normal. Prices will drop eventually and we can start the discussion all over agin.






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