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Vishnu258
Posted - 2011.04.19 17:53:00 - [1]
 

Make them warp cloaked. That pretty much summs it up.

First, lets lookt at the definition of "Black Ops" courtesy ok Wikipedia: "A black operation or black op is a covert operation".
How does this not include the ability to warp cloaked? The technology for warping while cloaked exists for some frigates and some cruisers; why not modify it for the Black Ops battleships?

Show your support for this improvement by posting on this thread. Make Black Ops as stealthy as they should be.

-Vishnu

MuppetsSlayed
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.04.19 18:09:00 - [2]
 

I like this idea.

Loki9899
Posted - 2011.04.19 18:36:00 - [3]
 

Great idea dude!! Twisted Evil

Cyprus Bazz
Posted - 2011.04.19 18:42:00 - [4]
 

Agreed. Black ops already being able to put up covert cynosural fields and covert jump portals should also be able to use a covert ops cloak.

Mina Banestar
Posted - 2011.04.19 18:50:00 - [5]
 

Black ops are for supporting cloaked gangs with additional dps and the surprise factor of the covert jump bridge, not being the latest solo pwnmobile for bored nullsec rat hunters. They dont need the covert cloak to do what they were designed for so they dont have it and I think it should stay that way. I'll admit they do need a boost but this isnt it.

King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
Posted - 2011.04.19 20:19:00 - [6]
 

BO's desperately need a buff but as said, the cov ops cloak isn't it. The problem is the ship's god awful jump range, jump portal fuel usage and combat stats. They need an EHP buff, a dps buff and an extra slot (they should be at least equal to navy ships, not inferior to vanilla t1). I don't think a cov ops cloak would even qualify as a buff to them. I mean serious, wtf would you do with a cov ops cloak? Sneak up on a belt ratting raven and get owned by it?Laughing

Vishnu258
Posted - 2011.04.19 21:41:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Mina Banestar
Black ops are for supporting cloaked gangs with additional dps and the surprise factor of the covert jump bridge, not being the latest solo pwnmobile for bored nullsec rat hunters.


Agreed, but what happens after the fight. All your buddies cloak ad warp away, you cloak.... align, uncloak and warp.
And if they are used for support, why would they be the latest "solo pwnmobile". Does it make a difference if you are tackled by a recon/cov ops who opens the covert cyno or a actual Black Ops ship.

As for the jump range, I would say it is not actually that bad. 4ly + jump drive calibration 4 (asuuming the pilot has decent skills). You cant ask CCP to take the jump drive of a capital ship and stuff it in a battle ship.

Black Ops are indeed in dire need of a buff. I believe the cov ops cloak is a step in the right direction. A T2 version of a ship should have a decent advantage over the T1 versions. I mean, my ship is worth at LEAST 5x as much as yours (probably more like 8x to 10x). Sure people will abuse it and camp null sec space, but this happens all the time.

Drago Wolfson
Caldari
Serenity Engineering and Transport Company
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2011.04.19 21:49:00 - [8]
 

The idea has merit as the most likely win we are going to see in a buff for Black Ops ships, anything else is much less likely to happen IMO.

VellyX
Posted - 2011.04.19 21:54:00 - [9]
 

I don't see any physical reason why they shouldn't be able to warp while being cloaked... I support this idea.

niceandblue
Mercurialis Inc.
Posted - 2011.04.20 02:05:00 - [10]
 

I fully support this idea!

Pneumon Blaster
Quondam Souls of the Universe corporation
THE R0NIN
Posted - 2011.04.20 05:46:00 - [11]
 

fully supported.

Hymen Antzen
Posted - 2011.04.20 05:51:00 - [12]
 

I support the idea however I would like to add that either that all four race's jump range needs to be extended or their fuel bay capacity needs to be increased a bit.

Asuka Solo
Gallente
Stark Fujikawa
Posted - 2011.04.20 08:05:00 - [13]
 

I support this product and or service.

Rek Seven
Gallente
Zandathorn Industries
Posted - 2011.04.20 08:30:00 - [14]
 

If this was a petition i would sign it. Smile

debbie harrio
Posted - 2011.04.20 08:31:00 - [15]
 



No to covert cloak, it would make them far too overpowered as a solo pwnmobile and if you feel they need one you are using them wrong.

Yes to fuel bay increase, slight jump range boost and resists.

I'm unsure about the DPS increase, you can get pretty good DPS as they are and they are supposed to be a support ship.

Rosalina Sarinna
Intergalactic Syndicate
Nulli Tertius
Posted - 2011.04.20 09:28:00 - [16]
 

/signed

shadowace00007
Amarr
Beyond The Gates
Posted - 2011.04.20 14:33:00 - [17]
 

For the love of everything holy yes. and more specifically please put the missile slots back on the panther. it by far is the most useless black ops out there. Low DPS, Low tank, the only good thing about it is that it can move fast. but its still not as fast as it needs to be if its that weak.

Gabriel Karade
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2011.04.20 14:44:00 - [18]
 

Just my opinion based on my experience, either;

Increase jump range, decrease build costs.

or

Increase jump range, buff damage/resists somewhat.


Use of the covert ops cloak isn't needed or warranted, infact it would be somewhat of a nerf to mobility considering the low base speeds and loss of the cloaked velocity bonus (Sin in particular). Jump range buff is a must either way - the jump drive is after all, their primary attribute.

Vishnu258
Posted - 2011.04.20 16:30:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Gabriel Karade
Use of the covert ops cloak isn't needed or warranted, infact it would be somewhat of a nerf to mobility considering the low base speeds and loss of the cloaked velocity bonus (Sin in particular).


Not exactly sure what you are getting at here. The covert ops cloak has a 0% effect on the Maximum Velocity. With the shp bonus of "multiplies the cloaked velocity by 125% per level" per black ops level, i dont see how you would lose velocity.

Another reason why this kind of bothers me that it cant warp cloaked... anyone else notice that cloaking IV is required for the Black Ops skill to be injected? The same pre-req for the covert ops cloak. It is like we are supposed to use it... but we cant.

Mina Banestar
Posted - 2011.04.20 18:55:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Vishnu258
Originally by: Gabriel Karade
Use of the covert ops cloak isn't needed or warranted, infact it would be somewhat of a nerf to mobility considering the low base speeds and loss of the cloaked velocity bonus (Sin in particular).


Not exactly sure what you are getting at here. The covert ops cloak has a 0% effect on the Maximum Velocity. With the shp bonus of "multiplies the cloaked velocity by 125% per level" per black ops level, i dont see how you would lose velocity.

Another reason why this kind of bothers me that it cant warp cloaked... anyone else notice that cloaking IV is required for the Black Ops skill to be injected? The same pre-req for the covert ops cloak. It is like we are supposed to use it... but we cant.


Or it could be because its a prereq for every single ship the black ops is designed to support.

Vala Lastrom
Posted - 2011.04.21 01:06:00 - [21]
 

+1

Fournone
Posted - 2011.04.21 01:16:00 - [22]
 

a chat from long ago....

Me > I'm gonna get myself a Black Ops
Friend > Why they suck
Me > Well my nemesis works fine, a battleship that can fly around cloaked sounds awesome
Friend > It can't warp cloaked
Me > .......
Me > So, I was thinking a tengu...

In short, supported.

Helferle
Posted - 2011.04.21 03:21:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Helferle on 21/04/2011 03:47:16
Edited by: Helferle on 21/04/2011 03:30:44
Black Ops are fine.

however...Sin is a fail in ship design.


Black Ops don't need to warp cloaked. If you are cloaked, you are in local -> everyone can see you and adapt.
For Gatecamps you don't need covert ops cloaking, because you have a jump drive and don't rely on gates at all.
For clandestine maneuvers you got your recon/covert ops to light a covert cyno and strike fast, silent and jump back almost instantly.

I don't see a point on changing black ops at all. They already got no penalties for cloaking and decloaking, they're even faster while cloaked and have no sensor recalibration.

This is just an "I want more"-request rather than a balancing issue or content upgrade.


edit: Fuel costs can be a problem when bridging much. It shouldn't be mandatory to have a blockade runner in gang. However the pure jump cost for jumping the black ops around is very fine.
Jump range is also ok as it is. They aren't supposed to be carriers. Jump drive/Bridge is good for evading a gatecamp or a few jumps. That's its purpose. Thats the Design.
Ok, if you can't evade a gatecamp at a smuggler gate because of the lack of jump range, this is ****ty.

Saan Vaux
Posted - 2011.04.21 05:28:00 - [24]
 

support this topic +1

Vishnu258
Posted - 2011.04.21 05:32:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Vishnu258 on 21/04/2011 05:32:52
Originally by: Helferle
Black Ops don't need to warp cloaked. If you are cloaked, you are in local -> everyone can see you and adapt.
For Gatecamps you don't need covert ops cloaking, because you have a jump drive and don't rely on gates at all.
For clandestine maneuvers you got your recon/covert ops to light a covert cyno and strike fast, silent and jump back almost instantly.

You have never flown a Black ops ship before, or been on a Black Ops fleet have you...

1. Gatecamping in Black Ops. Wait, what? Why? Huh? Terrible idea. This is not a fleet battle.

2. Jump back instantly. Umm, what about the people I need to bridge out? You need to get them out too. My cargo will be full of extra fuel thus they will have my shiny loots.

Finally 3. Yes they see me in local, but why do I want them to know what I am in? I have talked with lots of people who are put off from buying a Black Ops ship for this reason.

Thactlara
Posted - 2011.04.21 05:56:00 - [26]
 

Need:
Bigger fuel bay
Lower fuel consumption (180x more consumed than titan, wtf)

Could use:
Better resists
Slightly better scanres
Slightly more jump range

Do not need:
Covops cloak
More dps

Helferle
Posted - 2011.04.21 06:01:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Helferle on 21/04/2011 06:04:06
Originally by: Vishnu258
Edited by: Vishnu258 on 21/04/2011 05:32:52
Originally by: Helferle
Black Ops don't need to warp cloaked. If you are cloaked, you are in local -> everyone can see you and adapt.
For Gatecamps you don't need covert ops cloaking, because you have a jump drive and don't rely on gates at all.
For clandestine maneuvers you got your recon/covert ops to light a covert cyno and strike fast, silent and jump back almost instantly.

You have never flown a Black ops ship before, or been on a Black Ops fleet have you...

1. Gatecamping in Black Ops. Wait, what? Why? Huh? Terrible idea. This is not a fleet battle.

2. Jump back instantly. Umm, what about the people I need to bridge out? You need to get them out too. My cargo will be full of extra fuel thus they will have my shiny loots.

Finally 3. Yes they see me in local, but why do I want them to know what I am in? I have talked with lots of people who are put off from buying a Black Ops ship for this reason.


1. Never talked about gatecamping with black ops, read once more.
2. they have covert ops cloaking...they can warp back manually :D Or you risk a cycle on bridging for your friends. But that hasn't anything to do with cloaked warping of black ops. let's stay on topic.
3. You don't need covert ops cloaking for hiding your ship type/position. No reason to warp around in the system like a ***got when in a black ops. Jump in, fight, cloak, jump out, fin.

And I'm glad that the "lots of people" you talked to didn't buy a black ops. They are supposed to be a niche ship, not solopwnmobiles. If everybody and his mom is flying a black ops because it gets mandatory for much corps/allys, much of the diversity of battleships will be lost.

If you know of the capabilities and possibilities of a black ops and like these tactical advantages it has over regular battleships, you'll buy one (got Widow and Panther myself, Redeemer in progress). If you don't...well...there are 12 t1 BS, 8 Faction BS and 6 Pirate Faction BS which will suit everyones favor.
If you want more HP/dmg, get your obligatory cap ship / supercap ship.

EVERY Shipclass that can warp cloaked is cut in its dps in HALF (Force Recons, T3). That is CCP-Design for balancing ships able to warp cloaked. I don't want a Redeemer with 550dps, do you?
And if Black Ops then will keep their 900dps or whatever, the Force Recon fanboys will cry for dmg buff -> combat recons are useless -> unbalance.

Black Ops are not force recons with 900dps and 100k tank and a jump drive.






Originally by: Thactlara

Could use:
Better resists
Slightly better scanres
Slightly more jump range

Do not need:
Covops cloak
More dps


THIS!

Sigras
Gallente
Conglomo
Posted - 2011.04.21 09:44:00 - [28]
 

Im not even sure what the ability to warp cloaked would bring to the ship, as it isnt supposed to be a front line combat ship.

I think any bonus these ships should get should be in the way of survivability, I would like to see actual T2 resists maybe a slight EHP bonus, and a range bonus of some kind . . .

I still dont know what to do about the sin as its such a terrible ship and giving it a range bonus just doesnt make sense because it would have to be like 5,000% to make blasters operate outside of insta-pwn range and rails are FTL . . . maybe a drone optimal bonus for sentrys? so it could drop sentrys from far away and maybe keep itself alive? im not sure.

Ravenal
The Fated
E.Y
Posted - 2011.04.21 15:08:00 - [29]
 

the last quarterly really says it all: There are now more piloted titans than black ops ships.

That's how silly the BO ships are.

Gabriel Karade
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2011.04.25 20:48:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Gabriel Karade on 25/04/2011 22:18:25
Originally by: Vishnu258
Originally by: Gabriel Karade
Use of the covert ops cloak isn't needed or warranted, infact it would be somewhat of a nerf to mobility considering the low base speeds and loss of the cloaked velocity bonus (Sin in particular).


Not exactly sure what you are getting at here. The covert ops cloak has a 0% effect on the Maximum Velocity. With the shp bonus of "multiplies the cloaked velocity by 125% per level" per black ops level, i dont see how you would lose velocity.

Another reason why this kind of bothers me that it cant warp cloaked... anyone else notice that cloaking IV is required for the Black Ops skill to be injected? The same pre-req for the covert ops cloak. It is like we are supposed to use it... but we cant.
It's nothing to do with how fast you bimble around the grid....

Put simply, I outrun Vagabonds into warp in my Sin; I daresay I'm nearly as fast as a number of interceptors. And yes, changing to a covert cloak would ruin that because it would come at the expense of the velocity bonus.


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