open All Channels
seplocked Intergalactic Summit
blankseplocked Electus Matari allies and EM pilots engage and kill Minmatar Militia
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5

Author Topic

Kuan Yida
Minmatar
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2011.04.19 17:04:00 - [1]
 

Pilots of Metallic Dragons, The First Dragons, and Electus Matari engaged and destroyed a number of Minmatar Milita pilots in Auner last night, including an Archon carrier flown by Silence iKillYouu of Ice Fire Warriors, which was forced to self-destruct rather than depart the field. At least one Metallic Dragons ship was also destroyed, as only one appears posted on the Militia killboard. Eight militia battleships and battle cruisers were destroyed, as well as the Archon.

Although the fight appears to have been instigated by pilots of Tempest Legion, who are currently in the process of joining Ushra'Khan, there was no notification to cease hostilities sent to the Militia pilots, who would not have knowingly attacked allies of Electus Matari.

While I have EM pilots set to blue, and I am assuming the reverse is true, I had no notification either from the Dragon corp pilots or the EM pilots on the scene to disengage or stand down. All I witnessed were neutrals being assisted by EM pilots engaging and destroying Tribal Liberation Force vessels, so I moved to assist my fellow militiamen.

A simple request to disengage, and that the corps was militia-friendly posted in Local would have sufficed to avoid this calamity. Why EM and their allies sought to destroy capital ships that are used to fight Amarr and liberate the enslaved mystifies me. Also, I can only imagine that my corp Huang Yinglong, a long time friend of Electus Matari, is no longer blue to its pilots?

I request a formal diplomatic response from Electus Matari. Does EM now consider the Minmatar Militia to be a hostile force?

Julianus Soter
Gallente
Moira.
Posted - 2011.04.19 17:10:00 - [2]
 

Hmmm. Cursory investigation provides. . .this.

I don't notice any Electus Matari pilots participating, do you?

Lies and slander, but also damnable lies and slander. Not unexpected from unvetted news reporting.

Kuan Yida
Minmatar
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2011.04.19 17:16:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Kuan Yida on 19/04/2011 17:18:48

Quote:
Lies and slander, but also damnable lies and slander. Not unexpected from unvetted news reporting.


Wrong fight, sir. See this record.

I also demand you withdraw your accusations of lies and slander.

Rek Jaiga
Minmatar
Crimson Path
Posted - 2011.04.19 17:19:00 - [4]
 

And I was hoping the internal fighting within the Minmatar militia would never exceed the cries of "Spy! Spy!" Rolling Eyes

Julianus Soter
Gallente
Moira.
Posted - 2011.04.19 17:30:00 - [5]
 

I didn't realize you lost so many carriers on a regular basis. Let's see. . .

The participation of one pilot, a certain "Daniel L'Siata", now translates to 'pilots of Electus Matari'. Additionally, it appears that he had enough time to switch ships during the middle of the fight. Furthermore, his participation was at 6:55 and 7:18, and his hostility was only focused against a single pilot, are34. Now, it appears from my vantage point, that there was some form of personal dispute between these individuals. Most likely due to killrights, as are34 is a fringe pirate, according to bounty and security status.

Seems that there was some miscommunication? Truth is the first casualty of war. If you're offended, best go ahead and head back to highsec.

Kuan Yida
Minmatar
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2011.04.19 17:49:00 - [6]
 

Quote:
The participation of one pilot, a certain "Daniel L'Siata", now translates to 'pilots of Electus Matari'.


You count poorly, sir. There were three EM pilots on the field. Daniel L'Siata, Altaen, and CJ Walker. Gradient corporation is a very old ally of my corp as well, which saddens me that we nearly came to blows.

I offend if I am called a liar, as would any person of honor. And I deem you to be a pilot who is both hasty in research and in reaching incorrect conclusions, as well a poor reader of records. If you question my courage or ability to dwell in low-sec, I would simply compare your combat record with mine, and wonder who indeed is better suited for life in low sec.

I believe the entire misadventure is one of miscommunication. And yes, truth is a casualty of war, but I am simply requesting, in I believe an appropriately outraged manner, that EM please ask their allies to both not engage militia, or at the very least tell militia that they are Minmatar friendly. If that request is then ignored (I would be the first to state that the Militia is rife with ex- and current pirates) EM involvement would be appropriate.

But I would have never engaged the Dragons pilots if I had known of their allegiance, and I would have requested that Tempest Legion stand down.

Silas Vitalia
Khanid Provincial Vanguard
Vanguard Imperium
Posted - 2011.04.19 18:00:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Silas Vitalia on 19/04/2011 18:22:56
The militia system is broken and we all know this.

The barrier for entry is non-existent, and all manner of foul individuals can freely operate with impunity, in -any- Empire's militia.

A loyalist capsuleer Alliance or corporation destroying militia pilots can rarely be used as any sort of political 'evidence,' considering the majority of militia pilots are members in name only. While I would obviously not support any Heathen organizations, the point is still valid.

Then again I'm sure discerning between the various tribals for anyone not worth shooting can be difficult, even for EM.


Epitoth
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2011.04.19 19:19:00 - [8]
 

Disgraceful if this is true. In your shoes Kuan I would ignore the usual avenues of diplomacy, perhaps consider a deceleration of war?




Julianus Soter
Gallente
Moira.
Posted - 2011.04.19 19:46:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Julianus Soter on 19/04/2011 19:47:25
Originally by: Kuan Yida
Quote:
The participation of one pilot, a certain "Daniel L'Siata", now translates to 'pilots of Electus Matari'.


You count poorly, sir. There were three EM pilots on the field. Daniel L'Siata, Altaen, and CJ Walker. Gradient corporation is a very old ally of my corp as well, which saddens me that we nearly came to blows.

I offend if I am called a liar, as would any person of honor. And I deem you to be a pilot who is both hasty in research and in reaching incorrect conclusions, as well a poor reader of records. If you question my courage or ability to dwell in low-sec, I would simply compare your combat record with mine, and wonder who indeed is better suited for life in low sec.

I believe the entire misadventure is one of miscommunication. And yes, truth is a casualty of war, but I am simply requesting, in I believe an appropriately outraged manner, that EM please ask their allies to both not engage militia, or at the very least tell militia that they are Minmatar friendly. If that request is then ignored (I would be the first to state that the Militia is rife with ex- and current pirates) EM involvement would be appropriate.

But I would have never engaged the Dragons pilots if I had known of their allegiance, and I would have requested that Tempest Legion stand down.


That actually makes much more sense. They were also focusing fire on are38, his Dominix, it seems. I believe it must have been an issue with are38 opening fire on the Electus Matari squadron, provoking them to return fire. Neither pilot that you mentioned here aggressed any other vessel on the field, it seems.

Kyoko Sakoda
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.04.19 20:17:00 - [10]
 

Can anyone really blame EM for wanting to put privateers out of their misery? It's not like they attacked the Republic Fleet.

Kuan Yida
Minmatar
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2011.04.19 21:29:00 - [11]
 

Quote:
Neither pilot that you mentioned here aggressed any other vessel on the field, it seems.


What is not shown in the record is the self-destructed Archon carrier piloted by Silence Ikillyouu which was pointed by the EM pilot flying the vagabond. But of course, you don't need to take my word for that, you can ask the EM pilots.

And I'll re-iterate, I don't necessarily blame EM for attacking Tempest Legion, but some earlier comms from the EM allies may have prevented the resulting mayhem, and as I said neither I nor many of the other militia that arrived to support are34 and his corp mates would probably have engaged. If they are such close allies to EM as it appears, they should at least let Minmatar Militia know, so that those who would chose not to engage are given such an opportunity.

Dame Death
Minmatar
Core Impulse
Posted - 2011.04.19 21:35:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Dame Death on 19/04/2011 21:36:21
So TL;DR

Em see Blue flashy red carrier (IFW had EM blue I know this for a fact)

EM get cap kill hungry/have "Overveiw bug"

EM shoot said carrier?

c/d?

Sinjin Mokk
Stillwater Corporation
Posted - 2011.04.19 21:42:00 - [13]
 

When we say, groups like EM or U'K are nothing more than pirates and terrorists, you disbelieve us.

I applaud your honesty Pilot Yida and I hope that your government will stop supporting orgainizations that prey on their own people.

They come for your people.




Pax Thar
Minmatar
Heathen Army
Posted - 2011.04.19 22:47:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Sinjin Mokk
When we say, groups like EM or U'K are nothing more than pirates and terrorists, you disbelieve us.

I applaud your honesty Pilot Yida and I hope that your government will stop supporting orgainizations that prey on their own people.

They come for your people.






To be labeled terrorists and pirates by filth such as yourself is a badge of honor.

Both EM and the Militia units mentioned are decorated combat units that fight in service to the Matari people. This bump in the road is surely that, and these warriors will continue to reign terror upon the Amarr foolish enough to think themselves equal.

Silas Vitalia
Khanid Provincial Vanguard
Vanguard Imperium
Posted - 2011.04.19 23:22:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Pax Thar
...upon the Amarr foolish enough to think themselves equal.


Any Amarr reducing themselves to be the equal of a Matari would indeed be foolish.


Daniel L'Siata
Gallente
Don't Regret Until Next Keg
Posted - 2011.04.20 00:09:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Daniel L''Siata on 20/04/2011 00:14:05
*sighs*

Kazzzi
Amarr
Heathen Legion
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2011.04.20 00:18:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Kuan Yida

Although the fight appears to have been instigated by pilots of Tempest Legion, who are currently in the process of joining Ushra'Khan, there was no notification to cease hostilities sent to the Militia pilots, who would not have knowingly attacked allies of Electus Matari.


These pilots are not members of UNITY and their actions, whatever the case, were not sanctioned by us. We have great respect for all of our allies involved in this unfortuanate incident and we hope this matter can be resolved diplomatically.

Eran Mintor
Minmatar
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2011.04.20 00:27:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Daniel L'Siata
Edited by: Daniel L''Siata on 20/04/2011 00:14:05
*sighs*


I read your original transmission and it seemed logical. I wonder why you retracted your statement?

Challis Drant
Posted - 2011.04.20 01:28:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Kuan Yida
Pilots of Metallic Dragons, The First Dragons, and Electus Matari engaged and destroyed a number of Minmatar Milita pilots in Auner last night, including an Archon carrier flown by Silence iKillYouu of Ice Fire Warriors, which was forced to self-destruct rather than depart the field. At least one Metallic Dragons ship was also destroyed, as only one appears posted on the Militia killboard. Eight militia battleships and battle cruisers were destroyed, as well as the Archon.

Although the fight appears to have been instigated by pilots of Tempest Legion, who are currently in the process of joining Ushra'Khan, there was no notification to cease hostilities sent to the Militia pilots, who would not have knowingly attacked allies of Electus Matari.

While I have EM pilots set to blue, and I am assuming the reverse is true, I had no notification either from the Dragon corp pilots or the EM pilots on the scene to disengage or stand down. All I witnessed were neutrals being assisted by EM pilots engaging and destroying Tribal Liberation Force vessels, so I moved to assist my fellow militiamen.

A simple request to disengage, and that the corps was militia-friendly posted in Local would have sufficed to avoid this calamity. Why EM and their allies sought to destroy capital ships that are used to fight Amarr and liberate the enslaved mystifies me. Also, I can only imagine that my corp Huang Yinglong, a long time friend of Electus Matari, is no longer blue to its pilots?

I request a formal diplomatic response from Electus Matari. Does EM now consider the Minmatar Militia to be a hostile force?


Please consult our standings page http://www.electusmatari.com/standings/

IWF is not blue nor has it ever been blue to Electus Matari.

Please also note that Electus Matari will engage those with a global criminal countdown who are neutral, and who either aggress EM members or their allies.

I fail to see what the issue is here, other than a failure by IFW diplomats to properly sort out their standings list. To try and turn this around as an attack by EM, seems like someone merely trying to shift the blame for faulty procedures.

If you do not want to be shot at, then please do not support criminals. It really is that simple.

Challis Drant
Alliance Diplomat
Electus Matari

Altaen
Lutinari Syndicate
Electus Matari
Posted - 2011.04.20 02:28:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Altaen on 20/04/2011 02:36:05
As I was not only present at the engagement, but also consider myself a friend to IFW, I feel I should say a few words here.

Tempest Legion are red to Electus Matari, and they are red to nearly every anti-pirate organization operating in the Republic.

They have demonstrated hostility, and will be treated as hostiles, even though they have joined the militia.

IFW are the most successful corporation in the militia. I have the utmost respect for them, and I deeply admire their CEO, Bahamut420. They are also aggressive combat pilots, so while Electus Matari's mutual blue terms are quite reasonable, we have no record of them having agreed to them nor sought mutual blue status.
For the record, in order to be blue to EM an organization must not commit acts of piracy in the Republic, must not support slavery or the Amarr militia, and must not commit acts of aggression against our closest allies. For all I know, IFW would agree to these terms, and if they do I'm quite certain we can arrange for mutual blue standings.

The original poster, Kuan Yida, belongs to an organization that has indeed agreed to these terms, and is indeed blue. While in this engagement I do believe he lost a ship to Electus Matari allies, you will note that Electus Matari pilots did not fire on him, or the other blue that was part of the hostile fleet.

Electus Matari standings are public, both blues and reds. I believe our diplomat has posted a link to them.

Now, I would imagine the biggest issue here is that IFW has (or had) Electus Matari set to blue, even though we have them as neutral. This is likely because we have participated in a number of joint operations against the Amarr militia.

As our diplomat noted, our rules of engagement allow us to attack any pilot that is either set red (regardless of whether they are outlaws/GCC or not) or neutrals that are GCC.

In this particular engagement, Tempest Legion (red to EM, pirates, griefers, but in the militia) had attacked some of our closest allies, who happen to be part of an anti-pirate coalition that we work with daily. I am not terribly surprised that when the engagement escalated various members of the militia came to support them, as unfortunate as this is. Our allies informed us through shared channels that the battle was happening, and three Electus Matari pilots arrived to support them, myself included.
In the engagement EM pilots were specifically told not to engage blues, and did not. We did however engage Tempest Legion pilots without hesitation, and will continue to engage them in the future whenever the opportunity presents itself, for as long as they remain red.
The carrier piloted by Silence of IFW was also engaged, as it was a neutral GCC target in the process of engaging Electus Matari allies. Please note that the cyno for this carrier was provided by Tempest Legion, and therefore support of known hostiles is quite obvious here.

I will conclude my report by stating what I would personally like to see come of all this, since it was brought to the public eye. If I had my way, IFW would be blue, including the part of that where they agree not to aggress our allies nor commit acts of piracy in the Republic. Furthermore, I would like to see the various pirate elements of the militia isolated from those in the militia that understand that their guns should be aimed at the Amarr. Simply put, it would be quite nice if our militia were all unified against a common foe, the Amarr, and in the (numerous) cases that pirate elements are a part of the militia, they don't recieve support or assistance from the non-pirate elements.

Michael Bross
Minmatar
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2011.04.20 03:14:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Altaen
We did however engage Tempest Legion pilots without hesitation, and will continue to engage them in the future whenever the opportunity presents itself, for as long as they remain red.


As Tempest Legion are joining Ushra'Khan clarification of this statement is needed.

Is it EM standing policy that members of Uskra'Khan will be fired upon by Electus Matari due to EMs prior incidents with them?

Kuan Yida
Minmatar
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2011.04.20 03:23:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Kuan Yida on 20/04/2011 03:49:40
I am well satisfied with the outcome of this discussion, and as Altaen noted, we also did not engage EM pilots. The blue standing between EM and HUANG predates the existence of the Minmatar Militia.

I am in discussion with IFW on policies that I believe they will accept, that will allow for mutual blue standings.

Additionally, HUANG will review the EM blue list and set what corps on that list that seem appropriate to blue as well, pending a mutual blue agreement, naturally. However, it would be more sensible to set only those corps operating near the war zone to blue first? Is any such list readily available?

I have also heard --though not been party to-- the reputation of Tempest Legion, but as HUANG has no direct knowledge of this, they remained neutral militia to us, and therefore worthy of support when such was requested. We do not knowingly support criminals.

Altaen
Lutinari Syndicate
Electus Matari
Posted - 2011.04.20 04:24:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Kuan Yida


Additionally, HUANG will review the EM blue list and set what corps on that list that seem appropriate to blue as well, pending a mutual blue agreement, naturally. However, it would be more sensible to set only those corps operating near the war zone to blue first? Is any such list readily available?




If you would be available for a quick convo with myself or a diplomat I am certain we can provide you the short list of organizations that we work closely with that operate in the warzone. I'd be happy to provide the same to IFW.

Altaen
Lutinari Syndicate
Electus Matari
Posted - 2011.04.20 04:34:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Altaen on 20/04/2011 04:34:59
Originally by: Michael Bross
Originally by: Altaen
We did however engage Tempest Legion pilots without hesitation, and will continue to engage them in the future whenever the opportunity presents itself, for as long as they remain red.


As Tempest Legion are joining Ushra'Khan clarification of this statement is needed.

Is it EM standing policy that members of Uskra'Khan will be fired upon by Electus Matari due to EMs prior incidents with them?


This isn't the place for that discussion, but I hope you will contact a diplomat on that matter. A full list of diplomats is available at the following channel: PUBLIC - EM

In less complicated situations our most common policy is as follows: When a corporation that we have standings with (blue or red) joins an alliance, the corporate standings are neutralized and the alliance standings take priority. Alliance standings are then often reviewed upon major corporation adds or drops.

Usagi Tsukino
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2011.04.20 04:39:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Michael Bross
Originally by: Altaen
We did however engage Tempest Legion pilots without hesitation, and will continue to engage them in the future whenever the opportunity presents itself, for as long as they remain red.


As Tempest Legion are joining Ushra'Khan clarification of this statement is needed.

Is it EM standing policy that members of Uskra'Khan will be fired upon by Electus Matari due to EMs prior incidents with them?

The plot thickens!

Dame Death
Minmatar
Core Impulse
Posted - 2011.04.20 11:03:00 - [26]
 

Seem's my TL;DR was mistaken, and I appoligise.

Also Bloody Silence.

Elsebeth Rhiannon
Minmatar
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2011.04.20 11:06:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon on 20/04/2011 11:07:03
Originally by: Michael Bross
As Tempest Legion are joining Ushra'Khan clarification of this statement is needed.

Is it EM standing policy that members of Uskra'Khan will be fired upon by Electus Matari due to EMs prior incidents with them?

As Altaen explains, details of this do not belong in public, so I encourage diplomats of U'K to be in contact with those of EM to sort this specific case out.

In general (though exceptions exist) EM sets standings to alliance whenever possible. According to the standard policy (again, exceptions exist), if a red corporation joins a blue alliance, we expect one of two things to happen: either

1) the red corporation agrees to refrain from whatever crimes got them set red, and we neutralize the corporation standing, allowing the alliance blue standing to take over,

or

2) the alliance informs us they are quite fine with the reds continuing their crimes, in which case the blue with the alliance is revoked and a redding will usually ensue.

We try to monitor conflicting standings and remove them as fast as possible, but regardless, before standings are fixed as per above, a time period might occur where the corporation is red while the alliance is blue. This might lead to "friendly" fire. If so, reimbursement and consequences are decided on a case-by-case basis.

I hope this helps, and again, I encourage U'K to be in contact to negotiate.

Elsebeth Rhiannon
Diplomat
Electus Matari

Ava Starfire
Minmatar
Teraa Matar
Posted - 2011.04.20 12:26:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Silas Vitalia
Originally by: Pax Thar
...upon the Amarr foolish enough to think themselves equal.


Any Amarr reducing themselves to be the equal of a Matari would indeed be foolish.




That is because no Amarrian will ever reach such "heights" that "reducing themselves to be our equal" will ever be possible.

Michael Bross
Minmatar
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2011.04.20 14:08:00 - [29]
 

Sadly the taint of the Midularite seems to remain with EM. So eager to conduct the politicing and intrigue behind closed doors. I thought you had learned it is not the Matari way.

Simply, Tempest Legion will follow the RoE of Ushra'Khan. That is not a matter of discussion.

What I ask is will they remain red for past indiscretions?

Such a simple question requires but a simple answer in return.

Elsebeth Rhiannon
Minmatar
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2011.04.20 15:55:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon on 20/04/2011 16:35:29
Originally by: Michael Bross
Midularite

Guilty as charged.

Quote:
So eager to conduct the politicing and intrigue behind closed doors. I thought you had learned it is not the Matari way.

Where I come from, it is not the Matari way to conduct negotiations between tribal brothers in public, in front of outsiders. Rolling Eyes

Quote:
Simply, Tempest Legion will follow the RoE of Ushra'Khan. That is not a matter of discussion.

This is good to hear. I assume standings to them will eventually be neutralized to allow the U'K standing to take over, then. (Please get confirmation that this has been done before trusting it.)

Elsebeth Rhiannon
Diplomat
Electus Matari


Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only