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DaDudeinDump
Armani Death Mask
Posted - 2011.04.14 23:24:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: DaDudeinDump on 14/04/2011 23:25:10
Hey Forum,

Due to a lack of FCs in my corp and in Caldari Militia (I only know 3). I've taken it on myself to learn to FC, I figured it would be good to at least have a little bit of experience trying it out in case I need it.

But i'm having a problem starting? Should I start a fleet in Milita Chat? What should I start FCing? I was thinking Small t1 frigate and cruiser gangs, but after i have the fleet where do i go? directly to Heydieles and OMS? What happens if I dont find any WTs? Where do I go then? Sad

Sorry if these are Noob questions, I'm just very unsure,

Any help would be greatly appreciated,

Any FC guides you can give me would help too! Smile

KrustyKrab
Can We Haz Your Stuff
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2011.04.15 00:48:00 - [2]
 

one of the first things you prob should do is make sure you know your ships. If you see a Drake, you can prob guess which one of 2-4 ways they are normally fit (dual LSE + invuln tank, LSE + web + scram, etc) and know which weapons they'll both be able to use against you and typically will fit to their ship.

Know what ships are weak against (non-T2 minmatar shield tankers = always EM, non-T2 amarr armor tankers = always explosive, however sometimes these ships are plugging their resist holes quite nicely).

I got in a scrap with a Tuskers Ishkur and knew it was going to be about 90%+ therm resist but stupidly forgot to remove rep fleet phased plasma from my guns haha.

Anyway, knowing ships, weapons, resists, tanks, etc thoroughly has been my biggest help in learning to FC, as it allows me to know what my gang is capable of (and not!) vs what ships we are possibly scrapping with.

Start FC'ing ships you are familiar with, like frigs maybe. Frigs are cheap to replace, fun to fly, and nice because you really need to know what kind of targets you can successfully engage, and then there's the gtfo ability as well as better possibility to can snag a pod (but stay away from gate/station guns!).

Cruiser gangs can be fun as well, we had this nice fight not too long ago, though it helped that a lot of those bc's were not really fit too great.

Always have a scout. Lack of intel = you jump into bad camps or let bad gangs jump into you. Frigs are a little harder, but try to run the same type of tanks like all armor or all shield and get someone with leadership bonuses as well, they make a definite difference. It is much more fun in frigs/assault frigs with full skirmish loki bonuses + armor or shield resist ganglink for slight boosts to tank.

Learn which of your gangmates have strengths and weaknesses. Let everyone scout and see who does it the best. Being good bait is good too, some evil players just can't help themselves from aggressing juicy looking bait ships (like dual-1600 mallers, prophecies, etc).

Know your aggression mechanics. If your targets are not flashy red or WT's or have crim, don't fight around sentry guns, lure them to belt/planet or such.

Learn how to 'push' a target through a gate by having only one aggress on your current side, the instant target jumps have everyone else jump as well (should have one at least on other side already to point him when he decloaks). Remember if you aggress you can't jump/dock for 60 seconds after last aggression (common knowledge but I'm surprised by how many don't know these mechanics very well).

Know how big your gates are as well...near impossible to scram something decloaking on a regional gate without an arazu/lach/proteus or other long-pointing ship. Remember to not use webs UNTIL you have positive scram lest you help him into warp.

Find the FW systems or other systems on dotlan to see how much traffic is going through gates. Find systems where ratting, plexing, camping, whatever is going on. Have only your scout go through and try to get point before everyone else jumps or you'll spook target with local spike. We sometimes catch a hulk mining in dead-end lowsecs, we sometimes catch T3's coming out of wormholes, and we always catch people plexing or ratting and not checking dscan or warping/cloaking the instant someone comes into local.

For frigs or cruisers, get a griffin/kitsune/blackbird and use it wisely. People will scream bloody murder, but a win is a win, especially if you keep a cyclone jammed and scrammed and webbed and kill it with 5 T1-T2 frigs.

I apologize if some of this is something you know inherently well, didn't see you mention how much experience/knowledge you had.

Plus my advice is going to be different that someone else's advice, and the more opinions you have, you can begin to weed out crap advice like mine or get new ideas from someone else's opinion.

TL;DR = bleh

DaDudeinDump
Armani Death Mask
Posted - 2011.04.15 02:31:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: DaDudeinDump on 15/04/2011 02:32:28
Thanks Krusty that really helped out, that is a nice fight btw. Very Happy
I have had a small amount of experience (a couple fleets) listening to FC's,

Thanks for telling me about the 1 minute rule about not jumping or docking I didn't know that, Wink

So all together...
-scouting is your best friend
-know common fits for certain ships (like drakes) and use that to guess resists, weapons, and tactics
-know natural weaknesses in armor (explosive, Kin) and shield tanks (therm, EM) and be aware that rigs can patch up those resists
-know that tech II ships have really weird resists and be sure to account for that,
-FC ships I am familiar/comfy with
-know aggression mechanic's ( I know a little bit about how it works)
-Luring if done the right way can get you an easy kill ( I do know how pushing works)
-flying the same tank makes things easier
-fleet boosting and leadership skills are very helpful
-point first... THEN web
-get to know people in my fleet and know their strengths and weaknesses

Thanks krusty I didn't know all this, ur awesome! Very Happy

Fulmar Muse
Caldari
Posted - 2011.04.15 02:44:00 - [4]
 

Fly with a good FC (im not a good FC) and u will soon enuf start doing it naturally. Don't go AWOL on fukung wen doing so, do be loud or precise, (im neither half the time) and do lots of solo PvP in mean time... cos if you can trap your opponent solo, with a fleet it should be much easier.

Solo PvP leads to fleet PvP


KrustyKrab
Can We Haz Your Stuff
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2011.04.15 07:57:00 - [5]
 

def agree with Fulmar. Flying with a good FC for a while (I did it for a few months before ever FC'ing an actual fleet instead of just a guy or two + me) will teach you all of the details and hidden knowledge and out-of-the-box thinking etc. It is kind of like difference between street-smarts and book-smarts. Having only expertise in one or the other is halfway good, but nothing like having it in both (there's theory and then there's proper execution I guess is another way of saying it).

I was frightened to death of leading my fleet into quick decimation, but having basically the same guys in my fleet that are always in the fleets I fly in = they will really help you out. Hell, to this day, all of us fleet members still help our FC's out as no one can know everything (or at least can remember it when 16 bs's, 2 carriers, 10 bc's and 8 guardians land on your little 20 man gang haha).

Fly with other fleets under different FC's as well. This is best way to determine what you think are good and negative traits about running a fleet. I hate FC's who get really angry and shout or insult when someone screws up (we all do, this is fact of life). We've come up with some interesting gangs just by flying with different corps/alliances and seeing how they do it.

And yeah, make sure you have a proper speaking voice and tone when being FC. Mumbling (bad habit for me) gets ppl killed and/or angry. Having terrible mic or not having a firm voice that is calm and in control makes gang members do weird and sometimes terrible things as well.

ONLY THE FC IS ALLOWED TO SAY THE WORD "JUMP".

Always some jagoff who rambles on in mumble or a group of them bs'ing during a roam and someone says the word jump and blam 4 dumbarses go through the gate, spooking the target or his friends. Find a line between having fun and being serious enough that goofing off a little (waiting on gates or waiting out crim can be boring for sure in empty systems) doesn't get one or all of you killed.

Don't turn away dps but also don't let idiot-fits into your fleet. If you doing all shield nano bc's then don't let Jimmy Hat bring a slow armor myrm or worse, a shield zealot lol. But don't say 'no drakes' or something like that...that extra 200+ dps from a ship you hate or might not think highly of could be difference in a fight. I hate FC's that say 'no myrms' yet we got 3 pilots who can only fly gallente stuff for example. But as FC you got to decide.

But turning away dps is proper when someone has that shield zealot in a shield nano gang without logi. That's just asking for expensive lossmail. And as FC, try to be cautious about the isk value your gang is flying. Losing 12 frigs in a suicide run on a T2 cruiser on a gate is both funny and can be rewarding if you actually kill it before it+gate guns kills you, but in the end, it is only 12 frigs.

12 Cynabals, vagabonds, curses, etc. and a tengu thrown in there is just too much loss. If everyone is flying T1 frigs, you prob don't want a 100mil+ isk Dramiel with you (unless Dram pilot knows wtf he's doing, then you DEFINITELY want him with you).

The upside is when you get really good with frigs, you move into AF's and pirate/faction frigs. When you master cruisers, you get into things like HACs and Recons. Get really good with bc's and then move into a command ship like the sleipnir or nighthawk. On most ships there's a pretty significant advantage to the T2 hulls, but just undocking in a T2 doesn't give you magical instant better abilities.

Down the road you are comfy with your gang, your own pilot skills, your FC ability, and you are losing a lot less than you are killing...and then you start taking out the shiny bits and end up in engagements where you are outnumbered but get really good fights. We get lots of lamer ganks but we also get lots of awesome fights like that cruiser vs bc I linked, or FW gangs that have logi vs our smaller gangs with logi.

Time + Knowledge + Practice.

no more tl;dr's!

Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
Posted - 2011.04.15 08:44:00 - [6]
 

If it all goes south and the op doesn't go well at all, don't let the whiners and emos bring you down. Practice, practice practice.

Dr Fighter
Posted - 2011.04.15 09:24:00 - [7]
 

practice repeating commands to yourself while attending fleets lead by other good FCs, nothing makes a gang more nervious than a nervious sounding FC, also time counts, clear and precice commands are a must!

Vordak Kallager
Minmatar
Autocannons Anonymous
Posted - 2011.04.15 09:26:00 - [8]
 

If you can't find any Gallente, come to Auga solar system or Heimatar/Bleak Lands and fight us Minmatar. We need targets, Amarr seem to be in their hidey-holes of late, at least US TZ. )':

Silence iKillYouu
The innocent criminals
Posted - 2011.04.15 11:20:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Silence iKillYouu on 15/04/2011 11:20:40
DIDNT U NOO ALL U NEED IS A WIZARD HAT derp!!

I'm in ur milita chatz stelling ur intelz

Muad 'dib
Caldari
The Imperial Fedaykin
Posted - 2011.04.15 12:30:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Vordak Kallager
If you can't find any Gallente, come to Auga solar system or Heimatar/Bleak Lands and fight us Minmatar. We need targets, Amarr seem to be in their hidey-holes of late, at least US TZ. )':


The Minnies got spanked good and proper last night :D

Phillas Ekthour
Posted - 2011.04.15 15:05:00 - [11]
 

Always remember this too -

Without loss, we cannot enjoy victory.

DaDudeinDump
Armani Death Mask
Posted - 2011.04.15 18:44:00 - [12]
 

Thanks for you guy's advice I'm going to try and see if I can FC a small (5 man) group tonight. Very Happy

Maybe try some solo pvp in minny spaceYARRRR!!

Thanks for the advice and please keep it coming! Very Happy

KrustyKrab
Can We Haz Your Stuff
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2011.04.15 21:54:00 - [13]
 

Oh and if it looks like bait...it most likely is (and watch out for FW blobs!)

captain skinback
Posted - 2011.04.15 22:38:00 - [14]
 

make sure if something goes wrong and you fleet gets killed you have a fall guy to blame everything on.

Woodman2
Posted - 2011.04.16 05:09:00 - [15]
 

A rating system for FCs would be nice, especially helpful for those of us that like to get into a 'pickup fleet' for an incursion.
Only people who flew under the FC in a fleet can rate him, it would show up similar to standings.
I've been in a lot of fleets lately that didn't go anywhere, while we were waiting for enough pilots to join, half the fleet quit. Or we'd warp into the fray and find out the FC had no idea what he was doing. If an FC had a good rating, he would have no problem filling a fleet.
Just throwing my 2 cents out there.

Jones Bones
Burning Napalm
Posted - 2011.04.16 13:21:00 - [16]
 

No one is going to want to risk their shiney ship for some unknown FC. So start simple and lead wolfpax (frig gangs). If this goes well upgrade to T1 Cruisers and BCs. Then Battleships. Then the next thing you know your dropping a pantheon fleet on top of some dumbass who thought his supercarrier was invulnerable.

Bluejacket CT
Percussive Diplomacy
Posted - 2011.04.18 00:33:00 - [17]
 

ASSAULT FRIGATES, ASSEMBLEEEEEE!!!!!!!

Pulgy
Gallente
Spiritus Draconis
Posted - 2011.04.18 01:15:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Bluejacket CT
ASSAULT FRIGATES, ASSEMBLEEEEEE!!!!!!!


When was the last time we assembled a frig fleet >_>

Bluejacket CT
Percussive Diplomacy
Posted - 2011.04.18 06:36:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Pulgy
Originally by: Bluejacket CT
ASSAULT FRIGATES, ASSEMBLEEEEEE!!!!!!!


When was the last time we assembled a frig fleet >_>


It was the last time that FCing the Gallente Militia didn't make me want to pull my pubic hair out.

Dark Pangolin
Caldari
Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
Posted - 2011.04.18 13:07:00 - [20]
 

KrustyKrab has given an excellent run down. The best way to learn is to be in some active fleets, take away what you like form them, then get in some ships and fly! Get to know your enemy, especially in FW we tend to shoot at the same people (WT wise) all the time, due to the time zone and active players. Definitely get to know the ships. read evelopedia, figure out at least the basic bonuses of each ship so you have a rough idea of what you're up against.

My advice is to keep it simple until you get comfortable with your fleets. Once you get to know how you want to fly and your guys get accustomed to your style...THINK OUT OF THE BOX! EVE allows a lot of tactics...a LOT...use them all, most will fail, some will not...surprise is worth more than a few ships in EVE. Don't forget the guys on the other side are human too...and prone to panic :)

3 Pie BCs have your friendly Caracal trapped on a gate camp?...jump in your 10 Merlins and hold cloak just as they begin to attack...they may panic and leave...or they may not, in which case CHARGE!

Hidden Snake
Caldari
Inglorious-Basterds
Posted - 2011.04.18 13:15:00 - [21]
 

Dadude ...let me know in game


 

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