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blankseplocked [proposal] To reduce botters and other pilots that exploit EVE
 
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Elayae
Gallente
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
Posted - 2011.04.14 11:59:00 - [1]
 

Here is a simple idea to decrease the botters and other pilots that exploit the universe of EVE.

- Remove the static asteroid belts and ice fields and replace them with a more dynamic system.
- Use the ship scanner to locate the asteroid belts and ice fields, updated daily with random locations in a solar system.
- List the scanner results of the asteroid belts and ice fields in a random order.
- Mix this list with one or more dangerous combat sites (faction pirates etc.).

This way pilots have to look at the list (similar to CAPTCHA mechanic) to warp towards the belts they want. It would be a minor inconvenience for real miners, instead of right click warp to belt they need to open the scanner scan and right click their belt to warp to.

FlameGlow
Gypsy Band
Posted - 2011.04.14 13:25:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: Elayae
Here is a simple idea to decrease the botters and other pilots that exploit the universe of EVE.

- Remove the static asteroid belts and ice fields and replace them with a more dynamic system.
- Use the ship scanner to locate the asteroid belts and ice fields, updated daily with random locations in a solar system.
- List the scanner results of the asteroid belts and ice fields in a random order.
- Mix this list with one or more dangerous combat sites (faction pirates etc.).

This way pilots have to look at the list (similar to CAPTCHA mechanic) to warp towards the belts they want. It would be a minor inconvenience for real miners, instead of right click warp to belt they need to open the scanner scan and right click their belt to warp to.


right, because bookmarking all belts once a day will stop macrominers?
or maybe because there are no bot programs able to scan with direct scanner and run chosen sites(hint: there are)?

Elayae
Gallente
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
Posted - 2011.04.14 13:58:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: FlameGlow

right, because bookmarking all belts once a day will stop macrominers?
or maybe because there are no bot programs able to scan with direct scanner and run chosen sites(hint: there are)?



It will not stop them, the scanner which produces a random CAPTCHA result list will only make it more difficult. Instead of bookmarking once for the rest of their botting life they need to do it daily, the more hassle for them the better. Imagine if they have 20+ bots running in different systems.

Silen Boon
Posted - 2011.04.14 14:16:00 - [4]
 

I generally support making asteroid mining less static.

There are a few improvements to you idea I would like to see.

  • Rather than daily random location for belts, constellations should have a constant number of scanable sites for asteroid (Grav sites). This means there should always be a good number of Grav sites within one or two jumps. When a site despawns, after all the roid have been mined, a new grav site will spawn somewhere in the constellation.

  • Grav sites should have varying degrees of difficulty to find, from onboard scanner to elite probe skills. This should appeal to players with varying levels of skill points.

  • The quality of the Grav site contents should depend on the degree of difficulty to find it, and the security of the system. Other factors like the amount of ore mined in a system may also have impact on the quality of the Grav site spawned.

  • Static asteroid belts should remain for new players, and ratting, but in hi-sec they should only contain low grade ores which cannot be mined by strip miners.



ehon
Posted - 2011.04.14 15:04:00 - [5]
 

well theirs really not to much for us to say since ccp showed us were mining falls on their list. it was second from bottom that was on the screen. most always think that all miners of high sec only use one toon. well very wrong many have 2-3 miners and their orca. i find that the current system makes this difficult as i tryed it with 5miners the belt just vanished and the laser work was a pain. i find the concept of huge rings around planets to be interesting. i wouldn't be to annoyed if high sec was left with the low concentration version i get the high suk concept. but micro scopic roids super annoying and laser that don't stop when the target is done also annoying.

if i were to ask for any thing it would be decent size roids im fine with the low to no concentration kinds would like bigger areas harder to find is fine as a large field of so veld would be ok as it'll take a bit to work out.

for the fun part. i don't find all the laser work to be much fun after a few hour as its a none stop action chasing them. in pve i don't have this problem as they take ea little longer to kill a ship. i have drones and it only takes one to actually kill a belt rat. i find this to be a 2 second moment of joy and then its done :( i believe if ccp gave us enough cpu/power grid that i can actually use my 4midslots while mineing would help and increase the belt rats considerably and maybe throw in some thin bigger then a frig. in null i personal love the mineing version guys and the attackers to protect them was great fun killing them with the orca and finding a cargo hold full of great loot.

now i do find it annoying that every one has this dream that a miner always have huge amounts of money so not true it takes many hours of moving low value items to make a decent sum of money. as i can take one or 2 t2-t3 ships and do combat and make more faster. but since i like building stuff i have done mine threw my eve carrer. throwing in the cobat and bounties would be great only concern is if i kill to many of them will it murder and rep with other faction like gallente as they seem to drop stupid fast already.

Mirabi Tiane
Posted - 2011.04.14 15:13:00 - [6]
 

Sounds good to me.

Antihrist Pripravnik
Scorpion Road Industry
Posted - 2011.04.14 19:26:00 - [7]
 

1. Log in one character.
2. Scan for belts.
3. Make bookmarks.
4. Share bookmarks to all of your alts.
5. ...
6. PROFIT!!!

Your proposal doesn't solve anything.


Rented
Posted - 2011.04.14 22:12:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Rented on 14/04/2011 22:12:38
Any bot not coded by a mentally stunted chimp eating crayons and sniffing glue would have no difficulties handling the ship scanner just fine. So... only mostly effective. Unfortunately it wouldn't take them rolling their faces on their keyboards very long to overcome this obstacle.

Allegratto
Posted - 2011.04.14 22:58:00 - [9]
 

dear lord no

Corina's Bodyguard
Posted - 2011.04.15 00:44:00 - [10]
 

If the text is in any format readable by a person (ie, normal text), a bot (decently made) will also be able to "read" it.

So, all this does is makes the process take slightly longer.

Elayae
Gallente
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
Posted - 2011.04.15 08:05:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Elayae on 15/04/2011 08:13:44
Originally by: Antihrist Pripravnik
1. Log in one character.
2. Scan for belts.
3. Make bookmarks.
4. Share bookmarks to all of your alts.
5. ...
6. PROFIT!!!

Your proposal doesn't solve anything.



Currently:
1. log in character
2. start bot program
3. profit

Now:
1. log in character
2. scan for belts
3. wait for scan results in captcha
4. pick the right belt from the list, otherwise your mining ship will die
5. make bookmarks (share bookmarks?, don't see the point of that for it creates even more work)
6. continue with 2

Remember this has to be done every time after a belt has been fully mined. The more hassle for them the better.
If you make the belts a bit smaller they even need to do this more often a day.

Originally by: Rented
Edited by: Rented on 14/04/2011 22:12:38
Any bot not coded by a mentally stunted chimp eating crayons and sniffing glue would have no difficulties handling the ship scanner just fine. So... only mostly effective. Unfortunately it wouldn't take them rolling their faces on their keyboards very long to overcome this obstacle.

Using the scanner is no problem I agree, reading the captcha results from the scanner is.

Yeep
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.04.15 09:29:00 - [12]
 

Most Captchas have been proveably broken and the ones that haven't are usually so obnoxious that even a human needs to cycle through a bunch of them before finding one that they can decipher. They work for blog comments because for every website with one there are hundreds without so the time required to break the captcha is outweighed by the time it would take to just find another site to fill with adverts for free shoes and viagra. In the internet spaceship game Eve Online there is no "other website" so solving the captcha becomes worthwhile again.

On top of that website captchas can choose random letters or words to obfuscate. I'm assuming your list of belts would have to provide some meaningful information about the belt limiting the combinations to a smaller subset. Matching a captcha image against a small subset of words is a much simpler problem.

Really all a captcha system would do is infuriate human players.

Elayae
Gallente
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
Posted - 2011.04.15 10:59:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Yeep
Most Captchas have been proveably broken and the ones that haven't are usually so obnoxious that even a human needs to cycle through a bunch of them before finding one that they can decipher. They work for blog comments because for every website with one there are hundreds without so the time required to break the captcha is outweighed by the time it would take to just find another site to fill with adverts for free shoes and viagra. In the internet spaceship game Eve Online there is no "other website" so solving the captcha becomes worthwhile again.

On top of that website captchas can choose random letters or words to obfuscate. I'm assuming your list of belts would have to provide some meaningful information about the belt limiting the combinations to a smaller subset. Matching a captcha image against a small subset of words is a much simpler problem.

Really all a captcha system would do is infuriate human players.


In this proposal I am refering to an image CAPTCHA not a text based one, in which players have to type. Looking at pictures to determine if it's a belt or not should be doable; also 100+ examples can be made by taking in game pictures. This is of course by no means a final solution to botting but it makes it more difficult, not as much for real miners.

Yeep
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.04.15 12:59:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Elayae

In this proposal I am refering to an image CAPTCHA not a text based one, in which players have to type. Looking at pictures to determine if it's a belt or not should be doable; also 100+ examples can be made by taking in game pictures. This is of course by no means a final solution to botting but it makes it more difficult, not as much for real miners.



You're still only inconveniencing the people who make bots, not the people who use them. Image captchas like KittenAuth only work because each website can provide their own images making each one different and removing them from the pool of low hanging fruit. With Eve there is only one system to crack so once one person has figured it out every bot can use it. 100 asteroid images just means the bot has to ship with knowledge of all 100, which won't take long. Even if they're generated on the fly for each belt the chances of them being completely indestinguishable from the other entries on the list is pretty slim.

Eladaris
Amarr
Excessum Industries
Posted - 2011.04.15 21:43:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Elayae
Here is a simple idea to decrease the botters and other pilots that exploit the universe of EVE.



It's a real simple idea. And long-term it would **** off the real human miner's, and the bot miner's would simply implement it into their base code and never worry about it again.

Hieronimus Rex
Minmatar
Infinitus Sapientia
Hav0k.
Posted - 2011.04.16 09:16:00 - [16]
 

Botters will always exploit the weakest link - so pushing them out of mining mostly moves them into mission macros. You need something to address both.

Also, the fancy bots use memory reading and python injection, so this would have to avoid that as well.


 

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