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Yxalitis
Posted - 2011.04.14 03:25:00 - [1]
 

OK, the following is a bit of an essay, a supposition of sorts, to try and answer why CCP are so keen on "nerfing" null sec income, to the point that hi-sec level 4's offer similar income for a -vanishingly- small risk.

Why is/was null sec "dangerous"?
Are they mutant space dragons that eat ships?
Do stars nova, and wipe put all life in a system?
Do giant space probes roam around, killing everything in their path with 1,000,000 DPS weaponry?

No, of course not.
What makes null sec dangerous is simple...no rules.
The ONLY thing that makes null sec (and of course lo-sec) dangerous, is player behaviour.
But, unless I am very wrong, all players are members of the human race.
Look at human history, we succeed, indeed dominate this planet, because we are a social being, who specialise in forging order from chaos.
Our history is littered with examples of civilisation taking over from disorder, smaller states uniting under peaceful terms, of wars being settled, peace being established, and people living in safety.
There are, and always will be areas that are unruly, wild, dangerous.
But, let's face it, people don't like living in fear. They strive to make such areas "civilised"

And so it is in eve, I live in null sec, we see reds in small numbers every now and again, days may go past without any being pinged on intel.
I can roam through three entire regions, and still see blue.
Why...because the residents of these regions think peace and harmony is better than constant warfare.
And this is in a GAME, that purports to be the most hard-core PvP experience you can find.

Is it any wonder CCP are trying to get more players in null sec, to find more ways to force conflict?
The nom nerf, whilst complained about most bitterly on this forum, had zero impact, a slight, congenial reshuffle, and all are happy again.

Note, I am not complaining, or suggesting a course of action, I am not even suggesting that anything needs to be done, all I am doing is stating an observation for interesting discussion. (Of course a few dozen posters will leap to flame me instantly, but such is Eve...)
Laughing

Diesel47
Posted - 2011.04.14 03:46:00 - [2]
 

What is you speak about, exlaborate please.

Astroka
Posted - 2011.04.14 03:52:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Diesel47
What is you speak about, exlaborate please.

Nullsec was recently changed so systems with higher "truesecs" would have lower quality complexes and such, decreasing the potential ISK income for them, and vice versa. CCP did it so people would fight for better systems, but in reality, it didn't do anything more than **** a lot of people off (including me and my corp).

Aiwha
Caldari
101st Space Marine Force
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2011.04.14 03:54:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Astroka
Originally by: Diesel47
What is you speak about, exlaborate please.

Nullsec was recently changed so systems with higher "truesecs" would have lower quality complexes and such, decreasing the potential ISK income for them, and vice versa. CCP did it so people would fight for better systems, but in reality, it didn't do anything more than **** a lot of people off (including me and my corp).



The rest of EVE doesn't care if the north is angry.

Astroka
Posted - 2011.04.14 03:58:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Astroka on 14/04/2011 04:00:27
Originally by: Aiwha
Originally by: Astroka
Originally by: Diesel47
What is you speak about, exlaborate please.

Nullsec was recently changed so systems with higher "truesecs" would have lower quality complexes and such, decreasing the potential ISK income for them, and vice versa. CCP did it so people would fight for better systems, but in reality, it didn't do anything more than **** a lot of people off (including me and my corp).



The rest of EVE doesn't care if the north is angry.

And nobody cares about who cares and who doesn't care. If it doesn't affect someone and they have no reason to care nobody that is affected by it cares what he/she thinks.

In case you thought so (as I got the impression of from your post), I'm not the OP.

Skydell
Caldari
Space Mermaids
Posted - 2011.04.14 03:58:00 - [6]
 

Your premise is correct and there is a lack of cost benefit in EVE "war". Saying people should do it simply for the PvP need to look at what EVE is. It's a game of ISK funds ships, funds PvP.

If CCP think anything they do is going to revert EVE to "what it was" they are doomed to fail untill the game goes down. You can't put pandora back in the box. Blobs won't get any smaller, nodes will keep crashing and PvP in 0.0 sec won't happen as a result. Alts will make the fluid ISK in high sec or null sec or where it is to be made and move it to where they want to use it.

People will continue to make Sov claims, they just won't dump tens of billions in to unstable infrastucture, null sec will be a flotsom of game space people don't undock in or go to unless blobbed up, ISK will continue to build in wallets, nothing will change.

There is no cost benefit to War, soon there will be no cost benefit to Sov, EvE Null sec will focus on Tech moons and the rest will be viewed as garbage space. Like it has trended towards for 8 years.

fweepa
Gallente
Infinite Improbability Inc
Posted - 2011.04.14 04:05:00 - [7]
 

I've been waiting for this for years :/ gives more incentive for "wars" and not just massive jerks flying around shooting everyone :P we don't see many reds around anymore simply cuz they get their arses kicked every time they pop up on grid

Astroka
Posted - 2011.04.14 04:10:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: fweepa
I've been waiting for this for years :/ gives more incentive for "wars" and not just massive jerks flying around shooting everyone :P we don't see many reds around anymore simply cuz they get their arses kicked every time they pop up on grid

It doesn't seem to have really done anything to increase the fighting over space.

Headerman
Minmatar
Quovis
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.04.14 04:34:00 - [9]
 

Many people realise that peace is profitable, and therefore the better option

Mortania
Minmatar
No Compromise
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2011.04.14 05:25:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Ladie Scarlet
How dare people work together and forge diplomatic ties to the economic benefit of all parties involved. Those bastards!

I actually didn't read a word of the OP but I'm assuming he's complaining about not enough e-honor bull**** in nullsec.


And this is why not reading is bad.

Ladie Scarlet
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.04.14 05:34:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Mortania
Originally by: Ladie Scarlet
How dare people work together and forge diplomatic ties to the economic benefit of all parties involved. Those bastards!

I actually didn't read a word of the OP but I'm assuming he's complaining about not enough e-honor bull**** in nullsec.


And this is why not reading is bad.


Ok, I went back and read it. It was exactly what I thought it was.

Astroka
Posted - 2011.04.14 05:35:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Ladie Scarlet
Originally by: Mortania
Originally by: Ladie Scarlet
How dare people work together and forge diplomatic ties to the economic benefit of all parties involved. Those bastards!

I actually didn't read a word of the OP but I'm assuming he's complaining about not enough e-honor bull**** in nullsec.


And this is why not reading is bad.


Ok, I went back and read it. It was exactly what I thought it was.

Except he wasn't complaining about it.

Mortania
Minmatar
No Compromise
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2011.04.14 06:10:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Ladie Scarlet
Originally by: Mortania
Originally by: Ladie Scarlet
How dare people work together and forge diplomatic ties to the economic benefit of all parties involved. Those bastards!

I actually didn't read a word of the OP but I'm assuming he's complaining about not enough e-honor bull**** in nullsec.


And this is why not reading is bad.


Ok, I went back and read it. It was exactly what I thought it was.


Reading comprehension is just as important as actually putting all the sounds together.

Yxalitis
Posted - 2011.04.14 06:10:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Ladie Scarlet
Originally by: Mortania
Originally by: Ladie Scarlet
How dare people work together and forge diplomatic ties to the economic benefit of all parties involved. Those bastards!

I actually didn't read a word of the OP but I'm assuming he's complaining about not enough e-honor bull**** in nullsec.


And this is why not reading is bad.


Ok, I went back and read it. It was exactly what I thought it was.


Then I suggest urgently enrolling in an English comprehension course my good sir, because if that's your interpretation, you fail!

chaosyourgod
Minmatar
Virtual Warriors
IMPERIAL LEGI0N
Posted - 2011.04.14 10:08:00 - [15]
 

i like where this is going....

Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
Posted - 2011.04.14 10:18:00 - [16]
 

People

Lived

In

Null

Sec

Before

Anomalies

Sendraks
The Spice Weasels Must Flow
Posted - 2011.04.14 10:18:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Headerman
Many people realise that peace is profitable, and therefore the better option


Sounds like the community just won at EVE.

Game over folks, CCPs great space adventure has reached its logical conclusion. The EVE online community has transcended humanities fickle desires and chooses to live in peace and harmony for the greater good of all mankind.

That is until such time that we see that someone else has got something nicer than we have which we can't obtain through isk.






So when does the invasion of Jove space begin?Wink

My Postman
Posted - 2011.04.14 10:57:00 - [18]
 

But, unless I am very wrong, all players are members of the human race.

If 100 % of eve playerbase are members of the human race, why do only 20 % behave like?
Do you see the problem now?

Narisa Bithon
Caldari
The Motley Crew Reborn
Posted - 2011.04.14 11:03:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Narisa Bithon on 14/04/2011 11:05:59


Originally by: My Postman
But, unless I am very wrong, all players are members of the human race.



dont worry the rest of null sec has become russian bot online so very little of the eve players are actually human.

come on ccp where is the next unholy rage???????

Gillaboo
Posted - 2011.04.14 11:17:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Astroka
It doesn't seem to have really done anything to increase the fighting over space.


You should have been in the fight last night then. Rolling Eyes

Even managed to crash a bunch of nodes.



Better Than You
Posted - 2011.04.14 11:18:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Patient 2428190
People

Lived

In

Null

Sec

Before

Anomalies


That was only because they had no choice. Now the game is much better so we have options. Your just all mad because you want the game to go back to the stone ages. Let me guess; We should all have to walk in the snow bare foot up the hill both ways?

Stop being so horrible at this game you high sec empire pubbie.

Arnakoz
Posted - 2011.04.14 12:06:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Better Than You
Originally by: Patient 2428190
People

Lived

In

Null

Sec

Before

Anomalies


That was only because they had no choice. Now the game is much better so we have options. Your just all mad because you want the game to go back to the stone ages. Let me guess; We should all have to walk in the snow bare foot up the hill both ways?

Stop being so horrible at this game you high sec empire pubbie.



beyond that, insurance covered 90-110% of their ship costs, so they had no real need to earn isk for survival.

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.04.14 13:51:00 - [23]
 

Problem is that there is no reason whatsoever not to blob as hard humanly possible. Timers and 100% EHP based system makes sure of that .. under those circumstances the NAP-land approach makes a lot of sense, more 'friends' = bigger blob = win.
Introduce ways for smaller blobs to hurt a turtle and watch them die ever so slowly while crashing nodes trying to intercept the evildoers with their sun-block blob.
Originally by: Narisa Bithon
Ignorance is bliss

Would be great if it was black and white with a clear scape goat, eh?
SHC had a poll some months back about botting, 11-15% of responders ticked the "I use" or "I have used" .. not a hell of a lot Russians on that board as far as I know.

The minority that cheats which you are looking for is in the mirror and living door. Humanity is an evil, lying, cheating and self-serving race .. the sooner you accept that simple truth the easier life becomes.

My Postman
Posted - 2011.04.15 11:00:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Narisa Bithon
Edited by: Narisa Bithon on 14/04/2011 11:05:59


Originally by: My Postman
But, unless I am very wrong, all players are members of the human race.



dont worry the rest of null sec has become russian bot online so very little of the eve players are actually human.

come on ccp where is the next unholy rage???????


You defenatley got me on that. I have to correct my numbers!Very Happy

Rek Seven
Gallente
Zandathorn Industries
Posted - 2011.04.15 11:15:00 - [25]
 

I know PVE may not be what you are looking for but maybe CCP could add special incursions for null sec that last 2-4 days where you can get billions in loot drops and then unique ship bpcs.

If i knew i could get an extremely rare and powerful small ship from null sec i would consider moving there with friends. Otherwise what is the point of null sec? High sec and wormhole space provide all the isk you could possible need and i dont have to worry about huge blobs ganking me.

Peace

Chesty McJubblies
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2011.04.15 12:48:00 - [26]
 

I reached the bit about dragons, and assume this is comedy. I'll be going now. o/

Lilith Savage
Posted - 2011.04.15 12:52:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Yxalitis
Stuff...



I'm not buying any of it.

MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.04.15 13:13:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Yxalitis
I can roam through three entire regions, and still see blue.
Why...because the residents of these regions think peace and harmony is better than constant warfare.
There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG with this ideology. This game is NOT just about shooting.

Diplomacy and politics are just as legitimate as war.

That you don't like this is a personal opinion. But alliances have a right to play this game using the diplomatic route.


Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Sanctuary Pact
Posted - 2011.04.15 13:36:00 - [29]
 

War is diplomacy by other means. Peace will reign until someone comes to the conclusion that war is preferable. It is kind of silly that CCP thinks they can make wars happen.

Sybron
Posted - 2011.04.15 14:01:00 - [30]
 

Your premise about humans wanting to build order out of chaos goes completely out the window in the case of a virtual world inside a computer, where the players in this world bear no consequences for their actions and if they want to they just turn off the computer and return to real life. And if anything, humans have shown that in such conditions their true inner ass shines through to reveal their obnoxious personality to all. Wink


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