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Lubomir Penev
Dark Nexxus
S I L E N T.
Posted - 2011.04.12 13:13:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Holy One
buy $200 of GTC and purchase a character with some skills
or just go afk 6 months.


Nah the game is actually a lot funnier as a genuine noob, it get stale a bit later, hence average sub being 7 month...

ivar R'dhak
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.04.12 13:14:00 - [32]
 

Cheezus all these lvl 5 snobs make me really sad. Crying or Very sad

Here´s what NOT to do:
Tell him to go lvl 1/2 missioning to earn some money.
Tell him to wait till he can fly a Drake to start PVP.
Tell him to wait till he has lvl 5 in whatfückenever to start flying some ship.
Tell him to be the live webber/scanner bot for your lameass gate/suicideganks.

Some good pointers:
Hang out with him constantly and handhold him through the tutorial as much as possible, tutorial IS a must for the basics.

Give him a good starter iskpile, this has become much cheaper now without the need to buy the damn adv.learning skills. Or maybe starter pile of frigs, cruisers, a battlecruiser even. DON´T give a battleship. Make him earn that on his own.

Get Evemon, awesome offline database and great way to learn skills, ships, mods etc.

Invite him into your corp so he can hang out with other peeps too, or tell him to join EVE University.

Go frigate-ninja into 0.0 with him for that PvP rush. Hope you didn´t give him something like 50 frigs, the fear of loss is what makes pvp exiting. God knows it isn´t this almost decade year old engine.

Though ultimately you can´t MAKE him like eve. Everybody has to do that for himself. If he´s too lazy to even learn the basics he´s not eve material.

Lilith Savage
Posted - 2011.04.12 13:16:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Umad Ostus
So as the topic says, a freidn of mine is gonna try eve, but he's very hesitant about it.

What is a good thing for a complete newbie to start with in this game?

im thinking about doing the tutorual first, but that can be pretty boring. And then probably move on to doing missions. But thats pretty boring too.

And after that, perhaps RvB or just go and **** around (and die alot) in low/null sec.

Any ideas how do make it as interesting as possible? What can a newbie do to have fun in this game? ugh


Complete newbie, has to be doing the training missions. Might be boring for you but they are a tutorial and won't be as boring for someone who's not played the game.

Just one thing to be careful of, which is don't end up playing the game for them whilst you are trying to help them out.

Kijo Rikki
Caldari
Point of No Return
Waterboard
Posted - 2011.04.12 13:19:00 - [34]
 

Edited by: Kijo Rikki on 12/04/2011 13:21:45
Quote:

But still the eve player base is steadily growing



After realizing Chribba has 17 accounts, and hearing a guy in my own alliance that has 20, and most people in the alliance that I've spoken to have between 2 and 4, I'm starting to believe this is the norm and EvE's actual playerbase numbers haven't increased at all. Neutral

That being said, what your friend wants to do with this game will determine how to approach retaining his interest. If pvp is not an interest of theirs, don't even bother. They will inevitably get bored of killing red plusses repeatedly over a damned soft drink formula. (or <insert 1 of 4 static missions>)

For PvP the key is getting them to download teamspeak, join your corp, and get involved. Have them fly with competent FC's and be sure they feel secure running around space with your corp. Be mindful of the kind of time your friend can devote to EvE in one sitting. Most people can't afford to be tied to a game for hours because of 20+ jump roams far from home, so RvB or FW may be a more appealing choice for them. Get them to focus on training to fly one ship well, one that they can feel useful in in a small gang or fleet. Stress the importance of support skills and core skills for a specific role, and guide them, since the skill pane is insanely complex. Letting a new player think he can train battleships to 5 and be ready to play with the big boys is asking for a cancelled account.

Through it all, getting them on comms is essential, especially in 0.0. Get a few successful roams in or a few home defense fleets in and hopefully they will become interested, and get chills and a rush of excitement whenever a tense voice interrupts idle banter with 'check check' followed by a fast rattle of enemy shiptypes.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.04.12 13:20:00 - [35]
 

You know, I find it EXTREMELY funny how the SAME people that rage at the legitimate complaints of people they call "whiners" and encourage them to HTFU&STFU or GTFO are actually the people that have a hopelessly bleak outlook of any new player having fun in EVE.
That seems to indicate to me that they're mostly just being *******s all around.

Anybody telling you to just give the guy a large SP character is an idiot.
That's one of the easiest ways to make people quit EVE sooner rather than later.
Any sense of progression would be lost from the word go, and they would never even remotely identify with the character to begin with anyway.


There are TWO ways to go about it if you want to make a reluctant friend have fun.


The harder version (but most likely one to make him stick around) is to start a new extra account at the same time he is.
Send out a buddy invite to this guy AND to yourself on a separate email, create characters that start in the same station, send to each enough ISK to buy a PLEX, a set of +3 implants and a few basic skillbooks (Cybernetics, for instance, obviously), but STOP AT THAT, don't send much more extra ISK than absolutely necessary - your main account just got +60 days, while each of the two new accounts are now full accounts with 51 days of gameplay each, all of it for the total cost of 2 PLEX.
Then simply go through the tutorial and a few of the career funnel agents alongside him (ideally, all 5 of the career funnel agents in that station) - you will be getting a crash course of the most basic things you can do in EVE, a few ships and quite a few skills you will be using later.
When you're done with the career funnel agents (probably not the first day, but some time in the second day), purchase all low-cost skills you might need that you haven't already (skip "Destroyers" for now) and embark on the Sisters epic arc mission. This epic arc is designed to make you travel a fair portion of the highsec areas in the EVE universe, and the rewards you get should be sufficient to move you from the first decent frigate (which you had when you started the arc) through optionally your first destroyer, up to your first cruiser near the end.
It will take anywhere between a few days or even a couple of weeks to complete the arc, depending on how much you can play together and how well he handles it.
When you're done with all of that, he should have decent enough standings towards your chosen faction to start with L2 or even some lowlevel L3 missions if he ended up liking that part, or simply move on to PvP in your chosen faction's militia.


The second version (much easier for you, probably not as likely to make him want to stick around) is to make him go through those things alone, probably not touch the epic arc at all, and speed him though optimal skill training to get him PvP ready ASAP, without a source of self-sustaining income, so you'll have to provide (at least for a while) ample funding for him.

ivar R'dhak
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.04.12 13:27:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Anybody telling you to just give the guy a large SP character is an idiot.
That's one of the easiest ways to make people quit EVE sooner rather than later.
Any sense of progression would be lost from the word go, and they would never even remotely identify with the character to begin with anyway.

So mucken fuch this.

Exhibit A:
Originally by: Holy One
also the guys who say, 'I dont buy characters, the character I created is me!' are on crack. avoid them like the plague.

eve is a spreadsheet. either you have the 0's and 1's in the right box or you're going to die of boredom and disappointment. Wink
It´s because of "winners" like this (in all MMOs) that Real Money Trading is such a scourge.

Waaaaaagggh
Posted - 2011.04.12 13:48:00 - [37]
 

lol good luck...

Have him join corp immediately. I would have not enjoyed the game at all if I didn't join a corp on my second day.

And explain to him some of the mechanics of the game. Show him some useful guides to help the learning process.

And explain how epic it is to lead fleets of hundreds of players to smash skulls.

Galadriel Vasquez
Posted - 2011.04.12 13:52:00 - [38]
 

Tell him about the extended downtime every week and then hold the door open...

Sofa Raddis
Posted - 2011.04.12 13:54:00 - [39]
 

Edited by: Sofa Raddis on 12/04/2011 14:01:21
Originally by: Gwenywell Shumuku
give him some cool stuff, then kill/pod him. if he emorages, tell him to leave. if he tries to learn, tell him this game will be great for him.



Excellent advice.


Edit: @OP, I think it's unrealistic to try to make EvE "fun" from the start for a new player, learning curve is too steep, unless he, you know...... views learning\ brainteasers and the alike as entertaining.

Holy One
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2011.04.12 13:54:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Akita T
You know, I find it EXTREMELY funny how the SAME people that rage at the legitimate complaints of people they call "whiners" and encourage them to HTFU&STFU or GTFO are actually the people that have a hopelessly bleak outlook of any new player having fun in EVE.
That seems to indicate to me that they're mostly just being *******s all around.

Anybody telling you to just give the guy a large SP character is an idiot.
That's one of the easiest ways to make people quit EVE sooner rather than later.
Any sense of progression would be lost from the word go, and they would never even remotely identify with the character to begin with anyway.


There are TWO ways to go about it if you want to make a reluctant friend have fun.


The harder version (but most likely one to make him stick around) is to start a new extra account at the same time he is.
Send out a buddy invite to this guy AND to yourself on a separate email, create characters that start in the same station, send to each enough ISK to buy a PLEX, a set of +3 implants and a few basic skillbooks (Cybernetics, for instance, obviously), but STOP AT THAT, don't send much more extra ISK than absolutely necessary - your main account just got +60 days, while each of the two new accounts are now full accounts with 51 days of gameplay each, all of it for the total cost of 2 PLEX.
Then simply go through the tutorial and a few of the career funnel agents alongside him (ideally, all 5 of the career funnel agents in that station) - you will be getting a crash course of the most basic things you can do in EVE, a few ships and quite a few skills you will be using later.
When you're done with the career funnel agents (probably not the first day, but some time in the second day), purchase all low-cost skills you might need that you haven't already (skip "Destroyers" for now) and embark on the Sisters epic arc mission. This epic arc is designed to make you travel a fair portion of the highsec areas in the EVE universe, and the rewards you get should be sufficient to move you from the first decent frigate (which you had when you started the arc) through optionally your first destroyer, up to your first cruiser near the end.
It will take anywhere between a few days or even a couple of weeks to complete the arc, depending on how much you can play together and how well he handles it.
When you're done with all of that, he should have decent enough standings towards your chosen faction to start with L2 or even some lowlevel L3 missions if he ended up liking that part, or simply move on to PvP in your chosen faction's militia.


The second version (much easier for you, probably not as likely to make him want to stick around) is to make him go through those things alone, probably not touch the epic arc at all, and speed him though optimal skill training to get him PvP ready ASAP, without a source of self-sustaining income, so you'll have to provide (at least for a while) ample funding for him.



interesting take on 'fun'. personally I'd just prefer to shoot him in the face and then probably myself. or sometime during this magical mystery tour of relentless mind numbing sprit crushing gay you call 'helping'.

but each to their own.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.04.12 13:59:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Holy One
interesting take on 'fun'. personally I'd just prefer to shoot him in the face and then probably myself. or sometime during this magical mystery tour of relentless mind numbing sprit crushing gay you call 'helping'.
but each to their own.

For somebody who has been playing EVE a long time, it might NOT qualify as "fun".
But for somebody who NEVER TRIED EVE AT ALL IN THE FIRST PLACE, it _will_ be new and somewhat exciting, therefore at least a bit fun.
If you can't even remember what you did or how you felt when you first started EVE, well, too bad for you.
Not everybody likes the same things. Some end up only liking PvP. Others end up barely tolerating it, but love the economic aspect. Others are just around for the fact it's a sci-fi game in which they found buddies, and they don't like fantasy games that much. YOU CAN'T POSSIBLY KNOW what a new player will end up liking about EVE.
You have to present the new guy as many of the possibilities in as short of a time as possible, then let HIM pick what he LIKES best.

Holy One
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2011.04.12 14:37:00 - [42]
 

just because they are new to eve doesn't make them stupid, or children. I remember doing none of that stuff when I joined - because it was facile repetitive non-interactive crap. still is. wouldn't recommend it to anyone.

in fact this thread and your belief to the contrary has really touched upon why so many people quit eve or end up relentlessly bearing missions and crap in high sec forever. the new player experience only encourages people like you.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.04.12 14:40:00 - [43]
 

Yes, because going for PvP in 0.0 from the word go is such a GREAT way to make you want to stay in the game... Rolling Eyes

Ayieka
Caldari
Posted - 2011.04.12 14:41:00 - [44]
 

the fact that this topic even exists show how not very fun eve is starting out.
i dont care how many of you had a blast the second you played, every friend if recommended the game to has stopped playing after a week. There just isn't enough to do starting out because you can only fly poopoo ships.

J Kunjeh
Gallente
Posted - 2011.04.12 14:46:00 - [45]
 

I think Akita had some great ideas on this one...listen to that advice.

Holy One
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2011.04.12 14:55:00 - [46]
 

Edited by: Holy One on 12/04/2011 14:56:21
Originally by: Akita T
Yes, because going for PvP in 0.0 from the word go is such a GREAT way to make you want to stay in the game... Rolling Eyes


if you base you entire player retention strategy around encouraging people to do repetative risk free tasks and either flat out require or strongly encourage them to purposefully avoid interacting with others - you get a game full of high sec mission bears and over time, wow in space. which is what we are seeing.

only autistic people and guys used to playing alone in grind mmos want that. hence what you see.

my point has nothing to do with what people should or shouldn't do - you can all die in a fire tomorrow for all I care - the point is that the people at ccp repsonsible for devising a method of retaining new players with brains are failing hard.

as for the guys who pop up every so often in these kinds of discussions to say 'yeah but the subscriber numbers are rising all the time!' I say: 1. you believe that, really? 2. alts.


Tosser Galore
Posted - 2011.04.12 14:58:00 - [47]
 

Make a noob char your self along the side and spar with him. If that tickles his fancy continue of "level" a combat char, and start on missioning on the side. Or else point him towards the rest of the non-combat part of eve. Like PI or Roidzzzzz, trading, j3wing around etc. Or try a little bit of everything.

Other than that a complete noob should start with READING and googling/wiking/youtubing etc and watching Kil2 pvp videos etc. Point him towards the friggank series as well.

ask him if he likes missiles/failrails/guns and fast ships/or pwetty lazors (with godly tracking). Teach him about the different races playstyle/ships and/ decide if he should crosstrain of focus train on one or two races.

If you get him to join a corp asap with a active vent/ts then more than half of the game is won.


OR ignore him and tell him that "in eve you make your own content". Tell him to get 3 screen and pin everyhing, Build a cockpit out of cardboard.

Erichk Knaar
Caldari
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2011.04.12 15:00:00 - [48]
 

Buy him a Rifter BPO and a healthy supply of mods for it. Give him a set of bookmarks for Syndicate or Curse.

Ana Vyr
Caldari
Posted - 2011.04.12 15:18:00 - [49]
 

I had a lot of fun with EvE as a new player, but then again I didn't have anybody pushing me to play it, I wanted to play because sci fi and MMO's are things I enjoy a great deal.

Getting killed and losing all your stuff because you made a mistake will turn off folks who aren't seriously interested in playing though. For me, it made me more determined than ever to play, but it forever turned me off PvP as a playstyle. Dying and losing your stuff is one thing, but then getting mocked, podded, and toyed with by a veteran player was way over the top for me. "Don't trust anybody" is wise advice in EvE, but it leads to a very bleak game experience for a new player. You have to trust to some degree to get into a corp.


Eventually I did get into a corp and off we went to nullsec to join an alliance. Gameplay at that point consisted of waiting endleslessly for Ops to form up every night. When my ships started disappearing from the corp POS, it was time to pack it in and head back to high sec.

I stil love the game though, as long as I don't have to rely on anyone else for anything. Industry in EvE is really cool, and that's where I finally found my niche.

Let a new player find their own way would be my advice. A cooperative game in which you can't rely on anyone is a bit much to swallow for new players though, I'd say.

Barakkus
Posted - 2011.04.12 15:26:00 - [50]
 

Edited by: Barakkus on 12/04/2011 15:27:35
I started when race/profession actually mattered, and I think it was actually good, as long as there was a lengthy explanation of what your stats/skills were going to be.

As it is now, it's just too open. Giving someone a couple level 5 skills and racially trained stuff to start with made it a bit easier for new players to understand what/where they were going with their characters. Removing that was kind of dumb for new characters really. They should have kept the race/profession concept and added the increased training time on top of that.

It's been a while since I have rolled something that wasn't a throw away alt, but perhaps doing the skill point allocation thing in the beginning for new characters (if it isn't there already) would be a good replacement for race/bloodline/profession choice that used to be in game.

Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
Posted - 2011.04.12 15:30:00 - [51]
 

Edited by: Danton Marcellus on 12/04/2011 15:31:59
1 Don't give him handouts, nothing kills an enterprising spirit as much as charity, at least in EVE, in the real world it's typically exposure and hunger due to lack of said charity but in EVE everyone can make their own fortune and die trying.

2 Don't belittle his accomplishments, however trivial by telling him it ain't nothing outright or by rubbing your super endgame earnings in his face every chance you'll get.

3 Keep the guy company, if you can't be there right next to the man for his menial tasks then at least check in with him every time you see him on to see if he's on top of things and correct any misconceptions he might have about skills, what they do, order of importance and the like. Again, hold the belittlement.

4 Teach him about passive income and how to get some, grinding for money will get boring when you have to do it.

5 Take him out to PvP in a frigate from the start, let him experience loss early on and understand the importance of his entry level role.

From there on let him discover the game on his own and in time he'll surprise you with finding something you've overlooked yourself or just plain outEVE you should he find himself immersed in it.

Mrs Snowman
Posted - 2011.04.12 15:30:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Kijo Rikki


After realizing Chribba has 17 accounts, and hearing a guy in my own alliance that has 20, and most people in the alliance that I've spoken to have between 2 and 4, I'm starting to believe this is the norm and EvE's actual playerbase numbers haven't increased at all. Neutral



Yea, This! Basically.

Though to be fair, if you make an alt and check out the chat in the starter corps there always seems to be daisy fresh players about... how many of them end up as a dedicated player I dont know.

Gavjack Bunk
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.04.12 15:31:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Holy One
buy $200 of GTC and purchase a character with some skills
or just go afk 6 months.


Not empty quoting this.

Or, sit on the forums listening to people say "even a 1 day old in a rifter can add value to a corp" "but no, my corp has a 5m sp limit, sorry." for six months. Hilarious game.

Barakkus
Posted - 2011.04.12 15:34:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Danton Marcellus

4 Teach him about passive income and how to get some, grinding for money will get boring when you have to do it.



Make him start making POS fuel with PI right from the start and he'll have more money than you in 6 months Laughing

Buster Gonads
Posted - 2011.04.12 15:40:00 - [55]
 

Edited by: Buster Gonads on 12/04/2011 15:40:08
Put your hand in his pants. That usually works.

Disclaimer: usual contingencies apply.

Doddy
Excidium.
Executive Outcomes
Posted - 2011.04.12 15:43:00 - [56]
 

First month in eve is probably the best tb h, after that things get jaded

John plissken
Caldari
Nth Dimension
Posted - 2011.04.12 15:45:00 - [57]
 

get him to join your corp, get in his most expensive ship & come meet you. then kill him. that's what my friends did to me when they got me into eve. shaped my view of the eve world perfectly. now i'm just as bitter as everyone else who plays Razz

Zofran
Posted - 2011.04.12 15:45:00 - [58]
 

Get him a HoN account.

No troll.

Sutskop
PILSGESCHWADER
Monkey Circus
Posted - 2011.04.12 16:14:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Barakkus
Originally by: Danton Marcellus

4 Teach him about passive income and how to get some, grinding for money will get boring when you have to do it.



Make him start making POS fuel with PI right from the start and he'll have more money than you in 6 months Laughing


This. Give him a one week PI learning plan and show him how it works. No need for grinding missions :)

Graelyn
Amarr
Wolfsbrigade
Posted - 2011.04.12 16:41:00 - [60]
 

First, give him the manual.

www.isktheguide.com

Then, well, there's some good advice in this thread somewhere...


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