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Greystal
Amarr
Citadel Security Inc.
Posted - 2011.04.12 09:52:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Greystal on 12/04/2011 11:55:11
As far as I can see there many amarr ships which have a t2 variant by KI. However so far a don`t see a KI battleship of any kind. And also along the lines I want propose this disigns. I am not good in balancing slot and bonuses, so I just give a basic idea and leave a balancing issue for more expirienced people.

1. Name: Apostate. Hull: Harbinger. Unlike Damnation, it is designed to provide long range missile firepower and assist other ships without gang assist modules. Instead it has a bonus to target painters and 2 free high slots for them.

2. Name: Samael. Hull: Legion. A Khanid version of Legion. Black, sturdy and with subsytems similar to Tengu`s in regards to missiles.

3. Name: Beliar. Hull: Abaddon. Black Abaddon with missiles, a powerful but slow ship. Possibly a new addition to Marauders.

P.s. A propose this designs with idea what Khanid Navy must have new ships, just because they are a prominient faction in the game, a it would be strange for them no to have such designs. Please post construtive critics. And forive my bad English.

Horizonist
Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet
Yulai Federation
Posted - 2011.04.12 10:12:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Horizonist on 12/04/2011 10:12:50
Bad english is an issue only for those who want to troll you, don't worry about it.


The Apostate is an interesting concept, and would be worth looking into.
Samael...an armortanking Tengu then? Why?
Beliar also sounds like an armortanking Golem...again, why?

Greystal
Amarr
Citadel Security Inc.
Posted - 2011.04.12 10:31:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Greystal on 12/04/2011 10:35:32
2. Why Samael. In my opinion a Legion is a fine ship, but limited in a sense of only two damage types as far as I understand laser weapons. Samael then could complement Legion, both by additional damage types, and by for instance having some support subsystems which are geared towards assisting other ships, especially Khanid.

3. Why Beliar. It will provide a full spectrum of damage types, as well as draw enemy attention away from other ships.

Seriously can`t really argue about a decent reason. Haven`t been in a real mass PvP.

Horizonist
Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet
Yulai Federation
Posted - 2011.04.12 11:22:00 - [4]
 

I will be honest, I do not see them filling any needed niches...but they do not seem to render any other ships obsolete either, so I will support this :)

Greystal
Amarr
Citadel Security Inc.
Posted - 2011.04.12 11:35:00 - [5]
 

Thanks. I hope my topics about stuff like t3 drones and mothership design will be supported. But I need to post them firstVery Happy

shadowace00007
Amarr
Beyond The Gates
Posted - 2011.04.12 12:13:00 - [6]
 

Legion has a missile subsystem.

The other two are pointless. if you use missiles fly the sac or a Missile fitted T3 or if you really want a BS that is armor and missiles, use a typhoon.

Greystal
Amarr
Citadel Security Inc.
Posted - 2011.04.12 12:34:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Greystal on 12/04/2011 12:34:13
Originally by: shadowace00007
Legion has a missile subsystem.

The other two are pointless. if you use missiles fly the sac or a Missile fitted T3 or if you really want a BS that is armor and missiles, use a typhoon.


Which one is missile subsystem, please point my blind self towards it?

And point is in having Khanid ships, not Minmatar, not Tengu, not something else.

ilammy
Red Alliance
Posted - 2011.04.12 12:58:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Greystal
Which one is missile subsystem, please point my blind self towards it?
Legion Offensive - Assault Optimization

Originally by: Greystal
And point is in having Khanid ships, not Minmatar, not Tengu, not something else.
The points in Khanid ships are sturdy armor tank and short range unguided missiles. But your Apostate is effectively armor-tanking Draek.

However, torp Abaddon would be nice, but other races then need tier-3-based T2-BS too. But are marauders and BO used widely now?

Pantorus Necraliss
Minmatar
Giza'Msafara
Posted - 2011.04.12 14:37:00 - [9]
 

moar missiles, more drake like !

Jaik7
Posted - 2011.04.12 14:51:00 - [10]
 

so, the beliar would be a megahac? is the idea pvp or pve?

i for one would love to see a megahac designed to kill capships.

we'd need to come up with with a new acronym though, as i understand that hac stands for heavy assault cruiser, and battleships are not cruisers.

also, target painters go in med slots, and minmatar have that bonus already.

Greystal
Amarr
Citadel Security Inc.
Posted - 2011.04.12 16:24:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Jaik7
so, the beliar would be a megahac? is the idea pvp or pve?

i for one would love to see a megahac designed to kill capships.

we'd need to come up with with a new acronym though, as i understand that hac stands for heavy assault cruiser, and battleships are not cruisers.

also, target painters go in med slots, and minmatar have that bonus already.


Beliar is for mass PvP. It must recieve some flaw to discourage solo pvp/pve in this ship. As for target painters, then yes, my mistake - I stand corrected. But still it is nice for minmatar to hace them, but I doubt Khanid Navy will fly minmatar ships just to get this bonus.

Jaik7
Posted - 2011.04.12 16:54:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Greystal
Originally by: Jaik7
so, the beliar would be a megahac? is the idea pvp or pve?

i for one would love to see a megahac designed to kill capships.

we'd need to come up with with a new acronym though, as i understand that hac stands for heavy assault cruiser, and battleships are not cruisers.

also, target painters go in med slots, and minmatar have that bonus already.


Beliar is for mass PvP. It must recieve some flaw to discourage solo pvp/pve in this ship. As for target painters, then yes, my mistake - I stand corrected. But still it is nice for minmatar to hace them, but I doubt Khanid Navy will fly minmatar ships just to get this bonus.


if the megahac is designed for killing capships, but being ineffective at solo pvp, then maybe it should be designed to fit capital ship sized weapons. that way, it won't be able to hit anything but capital ships. reject this idea if there's something about capsized weapons that i don't know about.

another thing that makes battleships ineffective against capships (carriers) is their inability to effectivly retaliate against fighters. therefore, the megahac might do well with smartbomb bonuses. these bonuses or the capital weapons, i do not intend the two to stack.

another option for making an anticap battleship would be to give it simply ridiculous speed and defense, with standard weapons that have a negative tracking bonus. then, it needs an infinite warp scrammer that is not designed to shut off warp drives, but jump drives. this would effectivly make it a hictor for caps.

the thing that capships use to kill stuff the most would be the fighters. therefore, give the megahac flak guns that are basicly smartbombs with a 1 km range centered on a target. this would be an intresting and unique role that could also be used on frigates and drones. the megahac would also need decent scaning res, which battleships lack.

each paragraph here is a separate idea and should not be understood to mean that i think the megahac class should be able to do all this stuff. i'm just brainstorming.

Greystal
Amarr
Citadel Security Inc.
Posted - 2011.04.13 09:27:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Jaik7
Originally by: Greystal
Originally by: Jaik7
so, the beliar would be a megahac? is the idea pvp or pve?

i for one would love to see a megahac designed to kill capships.

we'd need to come up with with a new acronym though, as i understand that hac stands for heavy assault cruiser, and battleships are not cruisers.

also, target painters go in med slots, and minmatar have that bonus already.


Beliar is for mass PvP. It must recieve some flaw to discourage solo pvp/pve in this ship. As for target painters, then yes, my mistake - I stand corrected. But still it is nice for minmatar to hace them, but I doubt Khanid Navy will fly minmatar ships just to get this bonus.


if the megahac is designed for killing capships, but being ineffective at solo pvp, then maybe it should be designed to fit capital ship sized weapons. that way, it won't be able to hit anything but capital ships. reject this idea if there's something about capsized weapons that i don't know about.

another thing that makes battleships ineffective against capships (carriers) is their inability to effectivly retaliate against fighters. therefore, the megahac might do well with smartbomb bonuses. these bonuses or the capital weapons, i do not intend the two to stack.

another option for making an anticap battleship would be to give it simply ridiculous speed and defense, with standard weapons that have a negative tracking bonus. then, it needs an infinite warp scrammer that is not designed to shut off warp drives, but jump drives. this would effectivly make it a hictor for caps.

the thing that capships use to kill stuff the most would be the fighters. therefore, give the megahac flak guns that are basicly smartbombs with a 1 km range centered on a target. this would be an intresting and unique role that could also be used on frigates and drones. the megahac would also need decent scaning res, which battleships lack.

each paragraph here is a separate idea and should not be understood to mean that i think the megahac class should be able to do all this stuff. i'm just brainstorming.

Lamthara Lachesis
Amarr
NeoCorteX Industry
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.04.13 10:38:00 - [14]
 

yes, please. I'd like to see more ships... expecially the Khanid ones.
In general I see no reason why more ships shouldn't be introduced in the game... at least just for the fun of have more choices.

Anyway I remember the Beliar ship has been already proposed under the name of "flag ship" or stuff like that.

Jaik7
Posted - 2011.04.13 14:56:00 - [15]
 

so grey, just agreeing that my ideas are ok by quoting me? or what?

would you like me to brainstorm possible roles for the t2 harby now? from what i understand, you want ranged support from it. missiles are not the best weapon for the job, especially since Khanid Innovations uses only short range "dumb" missiles. therefore, a range support ship would be best suited by a beam laser ship from carthum conglamerate. (misspelling, sry)

the trouble with such a ship is that it will probably be obsolete bewfore the first one is made. i've noticed that ideal range for a cruiser sized sniper gun is right in the money spot for battleship sized short range guns. this especially because as far as ranged guns go, the beams have a rather short range. your t2 harby would get wasted by anything in the battleship class because it won't have the range to kite and it won't have the tracking to get under the guns.

that said, battleships are not popular pvp ships unless its a null sov blob. a cruiser sized beam platform might be able to provide enough support for small gangs only.

am i missing anything here? what role did you see the t2 harby in?

Greystal
Amarr
Citadel Security Inc.
Posted - 2011.04.13 15:19:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Greystal on 13/04/2011 15:19:34
I quote them, to have reference for my answers. Your ideas are interesting but most of them a either require to much change to the game or don`t really fit into my vision of ship design. No offense meant.

About Apostate. It is basicly a less powerfull Drake with armor tank and with support role to it. If we give it a short range it would be an imitation of Damnation I think. To survive it probably will need something like signature reduction, so BS will have trouble targeting and hitting it effectevly.

For now a want to see a positive and constructive feedback to use in adjustment of designs. So far Samael design is out of the question, as I finallt found a missile module, sadly it will not make Legion black, but that`s too much to ask I think.

p.s. I don`t have much time to think about ships. Maybe near weekend a wiil become more active and creative in this regard.

Jaik7
Posted - 2011.04.13 15:43:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Greystal
Edited by: Greystal on 13/04/2011 15:19:34
About Apostate. It is basicly a less powerfull Drake with armor tank and with support role to it. If we give it a short range it would be an imitation of Damnation I think. To survive it probably will need something like signature reduction, so BS will have trouble targeting and hitting it effectevly.


if it is khanid, then it uses HAM launchers. name a khanid ship that uses ranged launchers. ranged missile ships are exclusivly caldari, and short range missile ships are (almost) exclusivly khanid. there is that one caldari assault ship, but i find it an exception. unless we're throwing the whole storyline about weapons development and factional focus out the window, the only missiles an amarrian ship will ever get bonuses for is the short ranged ones.

i too feel that the storyline restricts the khanid in an unfair way, since i used to have a buddy that roleplayed as a khanid cyberknight and had a whole lulzy thing about speaking archaic englsih. he said he wished that the Khanid ships gave more tactical options. but the storyline forbids any ranged khanid ships

ITTigerClawIK
Amarr
Galactic Rangers
Galactic-Rangers
Posted - 2011.04.13 17:40:00 - [18]
 

Khanid BS with dedicated Torp and Armour tank bonuses and 8 launcher slots.

i have wanted since the dawn of khanid Mk 2

Greystal
Amarr
Citadel Security Inc.
Posted - 2011.04.14 06:26:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Greystal on 14/04/2011 06:26:42
I don`t think storyline really restricts us, it`s more like a guiding beacon. It`s not like we want to give a Khanid a full spectrum of long range missile ships. Just one, for now). Even so, if it will use HAM it might get a bonus to it`s range, so it still will be not on the exact front of the fleet. Or make it have a short range and heavy armor tanking bonuses, both passive and active(yes, I separate armor tanking into two groups).

Greystal
Amarr
Citadel Security Inc.
Posted - 2011.04.18 15:29:00 - [20]
 

After a good weekend sleep and few bottles of beer, I have updated the designs.

1. Apostate. Hull: Harbinger.

8 high(8 lauchers, 2 turrets), 4 med, 6 low.

Battlecruiser skill bonus - 10% bonus to HAM velocity and flight time, 5% to all armor resistance.

Yet-not-named-T2-class skill bonus - 5% to Armor repaired by Armor repairers(not remote), 20% bonus to target painters range and effectivnes.

2. Beliar. Hull: Abaddon.

8 high(8 launchers, 4 turrets), 7 low, 5 med.

Battleship skill bonus - 10% to all armor resistances, 5% to capacitor pool.

Not-yet-named-T2-class skill bonus - 10% bonus to siege launchers rate of fire, range and flight time and 10% bonus to all armor resistances.

Max targets - 4.

Role penalty: has a VERY long target lock times(can`t really understand want exactly must be nerfed to achieve that)

So basicly it is a monster, an armored hard-hiiting monster, whci hovewer is wortless without support, especially to compensate it`s lock times.

I know it is currently a balance-breaker, so don`t post stating the obvious, better post how to balance that.

ITTigerClawIK
Amarr
Galactic Rangers
Galactic-Rangers
Posted - 2011.04.18 16:18:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Greystal
...
2. Beliar. Hull: Abaddon.

8 high(8 launchers, 4 turrets), 7 low, 5 med.

Battleship skill bonus - 10% to all armor resistances, 5% to capacitor pool.

Not-yet-named-T2-class skill bonus - 10% bonus to siege launchers rate of fire, range and flight time and 10% bonus to all armor resistances.

Max targets - 4.

Role penalty: has a VERY long target lock times(can`t really understand want exactly must be nerfed to achieve that)

So basicly it is a monster, an armored hard-hiiting monster, whci hovewer is wortless without support, especially to compensate it`s lock times.

I know it is currently a balance-breaker, so don`t post stating the obvious, better post how to balance that.


as a revised Beliar im thinking this.

8 High ( 8 Launcher 5 Turret)
3 Mid
7 Low

75m3 Drone bay
75Mbit/sec Drone bandwidth

Battleship Bonus: 7.5% to All armour resistences per level and 10% to Torpedo Vellocity per level

Flagship Skill bonus: 5% capacitor Recharge rate per level 10% EM Torpedo Damage and 5% Kin, Therm, Exp Torpedo damage Per level

Role Bonus : -99% Reduction in Warfare link module CPU need 25% Bonus to Armored Warfare links 10% increase to all fleet members armor Hitpoints


Greystal
Amarr
Citadel Security Inc.
Posted - 2011.04.18 18:27:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: ITTigerClawIK


as a revised Beliar im thinking this.

8 High ( 8 Launcher 5 Turret)
3 Mid
7 Low

75m3 Drone bay
75Mbit/sec Drone bandwidth

Battleship Bonus: 7.5% to All armour resistences per level and 10% to Torpedo Vellocity per level

Flagship Skill bonus: 5% capacitor Recharge rate per level 10% EM Torpedo Damage and 5% Kin, Therm, Exp Torpedo damage Per level

Role Bonus : -99% Reduction in Warfare link module CPU need 25% Bonus to Armored Warfare links 10% increase to all fleet members armor Hitpoints




Well your bonuses are better. But,IMO, it would be strange for a ship with close range weaponry to be a flagship. So maybe it should be a "Ravager" class, with bonuses to being a battlefield monster. Could you think something in this direction, as I really can`t think about that kind of bonuses would really benefit such a ship.


 

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