open All Channels
seplocked EVE Information Portal
blankseplocked New Dev Blog: Letter from the CSM
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: first : previous : 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ... : last (11)

Author Topic

LordElfa
Gallente
Golden Lyon Warriors
Posted - 2011.04.11 18:01:00 - [31]
 

This is ****ing sad. Eve when this council proves that its going to try harder than the CSM's before it, all too many of you vent your hatred over NC and Goon instead of even trying to have an open mind.

The naysayers need to grow up and stop acting like pouting children over the composition of CSM6 and start lending your support in an effort to improve EVE as a whole. To do otherwise hurts your own EVE experience as well as your fellow capsuleers.

The Mittani
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.04.11 18:10:00 - [32]
 

Will this accomplish anything? A very good question. We can spotlight issues and get them in front of the eyes of the playerbase, but that's no guarantee of success. We'll be able to judge if our efforts are worthwhile after a few months.

Judging by some of the posts above (the genos guy is p. funny) the very idea that there's a disconnect between what Hilmar says on stage during a shareholder presentation and the brass-tacks realities of the CSM is a shock. To folks like that, there's not much I can say or do.

For now, we're working on the quality of our spotlight itself, to go beyond dev blogs like this to ensure that our narrative is inescapable.

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.04.11 18:11:00 - [33]
 

Band-aid for the blob-monkeys lag whines is the first thing that comes to mind when you think about what will make Eve better?

Sure the dilation idea is pretty awesome and will do wonders for how large fights are perceived/conducted but it is treating the symptom so solves nothing in the long run ..
Brainstorm ideas to get away from the horrendous EHP based sovereignty so the blob becomes optional rather than mandatory and your lag issue disappears forever AND Eve becomes more fun/involved for everyone.

Meissa Anunthiel
Redshift Industrial
Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2011.04.11 18:13:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: BugraT WarheaD
I don't know why but the Goon invasion of the CSM seems to already gives its fruits ... Time dilatation seems something cool, indeed, but don't forget people that 70% of the eve universe isn't the fleet fight (but i agree, yes, it's time to fix things quick ;))

Nice communication btw, hope you'll stay unite.


This letter is already a show of collaboration and sign that we can work together.
Each chairman has brought his touch to the CSMs over the years, and each was a reflection of the state the CSM was left in by their predecessors. This one is no exception.

Team gridlock works on performance, and always has since its inception, so this is no deviation and no diversion of "highsec resources" into 0.0, rather the pursuit of something we believe to be beneficial for the health of the game (more ships blown up because of large fights also means more money making for industrialists btw :p).

Evelgrivion
Gunpoint Diplomacy
Posted - 2011.04.11 18:22:00 - [35]
 

Edited by: Evelgrivion on 11/04/2011 18:24:52
Originally by: The Mittani
Will this accomplish anything? A very good question. We can spotlight issues and get them in front of the eyes of the playerbase, but that's no guarantee of success. We'll be able to judge if our efforts are worthwhile after a few months.

Judging by some of the posts above (the genos guy is p. funny) the very idea that there's a disconnect between what Hilmar says on stage during a shareholder presentation and the brass-tacks realities of the CSM is a shock. To folks like that, there's not much I can say or do.

For now, we're working on the quality of our spotlight itself, to go beyond dev blogs like this to ensure that our narrative is inescapable.



When we elected the sixth CSM, we elected people to proactively pursue player interests, not to be sock puppets for the PR department.

While you can't decide what the development cycles are going to be spent on, it's your responsibility to tell CCP if what they're doing is a good idea, bad idea, a waste of time, or a good investment to make. If you're going to parrot off pre-existing work and just fill in the communications blanks in CCP's community interaction process, you are not only worthless as a representative of the players, but a tremendous step backwards against the hard earned progress of CSM 5.

Demortes
Caldari
Oracle Phoenix
Posted - 2011.04.11 18:24:00 - [36]
 

I've been in a few large fleet battles, but not too many. This doesn't affect me much although during the Yulai incursion (pre-automated) the lag was pretty bad. As one poster stated, this isn't an unfair advantage, it's just BORING.

I didn't pay my plex/15 a month to sit around and wait for the computer on the other end resolve the firing of a missile.

As for those that say this is Goon at it's finest (worst?), look in the mirror and tell me you wouldn't do the same if you were Goon and up their... at least this isn't "Kill all alliances other than Goon."

The letter was informative and yet political. Effectively it needs to burn and fill out anew with real information.

Limits of CCP upon the CSM is certainly a matter of concern. Why have a CSM if CCP chooses not to follow it's guidelines from the players, so to speak? It only inflates costs, thus inflates fee's and causes issues with political relationships.

Summary: Naysayers, go away unless you provide constructive criticism, go getter, careful what you wish for.

J Kunjeh
Gallente
Posted - 2011.04.11 18:29:00 - [37]
 

Edited by: J Kunjeh on 11/04/2011 18:30:01
Originally by: Demortes

Limits of CCP upon the CSM is certainly a matter of concern. Why have a CSM if CCP chooses not to follow it's guidelines from the players, so to speak? It only inflates costs, thus inflates fee's and causes issues with political relationships.



And why exactly is that a concern? CCP should filter what the CSM has to say, implement what they agree with and discard what they don't. The CSM wasn't implemented so that Eve could have a direct democracy on game design decisions. The CSM was created to funnel the voice of the player base into a coherent discussion that could be had at the highest levels in CCP. As far as I can tell, that's exactly what's happening.

Shobon Welp
GoonFleet
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2011.04.11 18:33:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Band-aid for the blob-monkeys lag whines is the first thing that comes to mind when you think about what will make Eve better?

Sure the dilation idea is pretty awesome and will do wonders for how large fights are perceived/conducted but it is treating the symptom so solves nothing in the long run ..
Brainstorm ideas to get away from the horrendous EHP based sovereignty so the blob becomes optional rather than mandatory and your lag issue disappears forever AND Eve becomes more fun/involved for everyone.

You miss the point that Time Dilation is already on CCP's radar since it was CCP Veritas(?) who initially bought it up in the round table at Fanfest. CSM6 jumping behind a concept that the studio is already aware of is low-hanging fruit - its much easier to get results from giving encouragement and guidance for an existing project, than to beat your heads against a wall pushing a new idea that doesn't necessarily have any current backing within the Dev team.

This is pretty basic realpolitik in action here, I'm slightly embarrassed on your behalf that you haven't picked up on it.

Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
Posted - 2011.04.11 18:36:00 - [39]
 

It wouldn't have been my first personal priority, but I can't deny the fact that time dilation would be a good thing for the game now and for the foreseeable future.

Dying in a laggy fight doesn't **** me off because I got killed. I'm in the early alphabet I almost always die in such situations and usually pretty early in the fight. The only real annoyance comes when you have to watch helplessly as your ship doesn't do anything or respond to your orders, but others seem to function without such handicaps. I would gladly trade it for a system where everything is in slow motion, but the action is much more predictable and total freezes are rare to non-existant. If it might be at all doable, go for it.

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.04.11 18:39:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: J Kunjeh
And why exactly is that a concern?...

Heh, yeah.

Like any Child-Parent relationship: Child wants all meals to be candy while parent wants child to have at least some veggies ..
It is the same reason why direct democracy is nothing but a pretty idea, every voter would need to know everything about everything to make an informed decision. Without it it would be purely emotional votes based on self-interests (ie. mob rule)

Raid'En
Posted - 2011.04.11 18:40:00 - [41]
 

time dilation is taken as a potential fix with others ideas, or it's already accepted and they will do it soon (tm) ?
surprised that there is no hint n the blog about the big thread on AH about this idea btw

Kaeda Maxwell
Black Rebel Rifter Club
Posted - 2011.04.11 18:42:00 - [42]
 

Realpolitik Smile

El'Niaga
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.04.11 18:42:00 - [43]
 

The new servers will help with lag, but only short term. Once we find we can put 2000 into a system and fight we'll do it.

Blob is never optional. In real warfare a small highly trained superbly equipped force can hold out against vastly superior numbers for at least some time. Almost all of those require the use of terrain and environmental effects to win battles. EVE doesn't really have any of that, space is lacking for the most part in environmental effects. We see some of this in missions but not in larger space. We lack other technologies like minefields that could help change the course of battles, removed long ago because of problems with folks setting up mines and then getting concorded. Warp Bubbles are nice, but why don't we have Subspace Bubbles (web effect in a bubble form), Minefields (damage in a bubble form) etc. To contain the blob you need more tools that the game doesn't have.

That's been the greatest flaw in the development the last 2 years. It has largely concentrated on niche areas and not on the mainstay of eve, space combat. There shouldn't be a year that new ships aren't introduced, and new modules to equip on them. Only by changing the dynamic constantly do you rise above the past.

When game systems are unbalanced like in any real world war when one side invents a better defense or a better weapon, the other side counters. Games get into the nerf cycle because it is easier, than following the logical procession.

Counter to Supercarriers.....Drone Interdiction....you need to make it easier to destroy drones. Probably could adapt the DIC and HIC for this. Just have these drone interdiction bubbles deal damage to Drones/Fighters/Fighter-Bombers in their area. Obviously they wouldn't die the second they entered for the larger ones but within short order they should. Another option is to build a counterpart, the superdreadnought whose goal is to kill the supercarrier. Maybe a ship with bonuses to smartbombs to help clear out drones might be a solution. Sadly based on past game performance they won't implement such even though they are the logical solution. Heck even a Heavy Battlecruiser using the tier 2 hulls and capable of carrying anti cap weapons could be a solution, there might be dozens more.

When you go to make Space Opera, which is what EVE is at its heart you have to continue to expand the horizons, not just nerf and tweak what exists. Once you start down the nerf path you never stop because every tweak changes the balance.


Evelgrivion
Gunpoint Diplomacy
Posted - 2011.04.11 18:50:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Shobon Welp
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Band-aid for the blob-monkeys lag whines is the first thing that comes to mind when you think about what will make Eve better?

Sure the dilation idea is pretty awesome and will do wonders for how large fights are perceived/conducted but it is treating the symptom so solves nothing in the long run ..
Brainstorm ideas to get away from the horrendous EHP based sovereignty so the blob becomes optional rather than mandatory and your lag issue disappears forever AND Eve becomes more fun/involved for everyone.

You miss the point that Time Dilation is already on CCP's radar since it was CCP Veritas(?) who initially bought it up in the round table at Fanfest. CSM6 jumping behind a concept that the studio is already aware of is low-hanging fruit - its much easier to get results from giving encouragement and guidance for an existing project, than to beat your heads against a wall pushing a new idea that doesn't necessarily have any current backing within the Dev team.

This is pretty basic realpolitik in action here, I'm slightly embarrassed on your behalf that you haven't picked up on it.


In other words, CSM 6 is backing ideas already popular within CCP to make themselves look like they've accomplished a whole bunch of stuff.

Havlentia Castigatrix
Gallente
The Avalon Foundation
Posted - 2011.04.11 18:53:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Evelgrivion

In other words, CSM 6 is backing ideas already popular within CCP to make themselves look like they've accomplished a whole bunch of stuff.


So, time dilation. Think it's a good idea, or are you going to keep hammering at that messenger?

Evelgrivion
Gunpoint Diplomacy
Posted - 2011.04.11 18:56:00 - [46]
 

Edited by: Evelgrivion on 11/04/2011 18:59:10
Originally by: Havlentia Castigatrix
Originally by: Evelgrivion

In other words, CSM 6 is backing ideas already popular within CCP to make themselves look like they've accomplished a whole bunch of stuff.


So, time dilation. Think it's a good idea, or are you going to keep hammering at that messenger?


Nothing wrong with time dilation, but if it was already in the development pipeline. Time Dilation was presented during discussions over the term with CSM5, and it was a topic at fanfest roundtables. With a project so far along, I don't want to hear about it from the CSM, I want to hear about it from CCP.

What I want to hear out of the CSM is proof that they're acting to ensure that player interests are met to the benefit of the game. If that means hammering at the messenger, so be it. CSM is a stakeholder, and you, the player, should expect the CSM to act like a stakeholder. That means being proactive and pursuing player interests, demanding answers for issues like the forum fiasco, and generally making sure that they get information on our behalf as soon as they possibly can.

They shouldn't be waiting in the wings.

Seymore Graves
The New Era
C0NVICTED
Posted - 2011.04.11 18:56:00 - [47]
 

Edited by: Seymore Graves on 11/04/2011 18:59:42
Edited by: Seymore Graves on 11/04/2011 18:56:56
Originally by: Evelgrivion
In other words, CSM 6 is backing ideas already popular within CCP to make themselves look like they've accomplished a whole bunch of stuff.


Or alternatively the CSM is working towards a realistic and attainable goal that is popular with a large portion of the nullsec player base and has at least some measure of backing at CCP. Unlike some former CSMs who have just spewed blobs of differing issues out into the forums, resulting in the current issue backlog.

orphenshadow
Gallente
Easy Co.
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2011.04.11 18:57:00 - [48]
 

it's funny seeing all the pubbies complain about blobbing as if they forget the fact that for many of us eve was marketed as "epic space battles."

I love small gang as much as anyone. But there is something to be said about 2000 dudes in one system destroying each other in glorious space combat.

Would love to see that without lag, but that's going to be virtually impossible. they fix lag for 1000 people we cram in 2000 more.

The current system has a ton of flaws that many alliances have taken exploited of for ages. If I'm going to be moving at 5fps and lagging. I would much rather it be on an even playing field.

+1

Wirbin
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.04.11 19:00:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Evelgrivion
In other words, CSM 6 is backing ideas already popular within CCP to make themselves look like they've accomplished a whole bunch of stuff.


Less backing, more keeping ccp from ****ing it up. Lets talk about how they should accomplish that!

E man Industries
Posted - 2011.04.11 19:00:00 - [50]
 

Edited by: E man Industries on 11/04/2011 19:04:09
Even as someone in 0.0 I can't say this matters to me.

Never been a part of these huge huge lag inducing fights. I imagine over 90% of eve has not eather. That said it does need to be fixrd but hardly #1 priority.

Also focusing on a solution that a dev sugested without any real details into how feasable it is may nto be the best...maybe dialation won't work for X reason.

Focusing ona more mainstream issue would give the CSM more credability rather than focusing on what gets mittens hot in the pants.

That said I hope he gets what he wants because the CSM does need more power. Also relizing mittens cares nothing for the smaller eve entities(nor should he or has he claimed to). He is focused on 0.0 and what it means to the larg powerblocks. Hope he recalls the little guys out in 0.0....getting bored of world of motherships.


Mitchello
B O R G
Posted - 2011.04.11 19:00:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Seymore Graves
Edited by: Seymore Graves on 11/04/2011 18:56:56
Originally by: Evelgrivion
In other words, CSM 6 is backing ideas already popular within CCP to make themselves look like they've accomplished a whole bunch of stuff.


Or alternatively the CSM is working towards a realistic and attainable goal that is popular with a large portion of the nullsec player base and has at least some measure of backing at CCP. Unlike some former CSMs who have just spewed blobs of differing issues out into the forums, resulting the current issue backlog.


a goal achieved already, since ccp's commitment to the challenge, pre csm 6. I agree csm6 will have to monitor it, report on it, discuss it, but it isn't a victory topic anymore. It is an active project, so to speak.

As for backing at CCP, that is always up in the air. This is business, if resources have to be reallocated because some financial or marketing or business development research shows that one or the other project will be better in prospects, things will shift to that. So, that is something for any csm to monitor.

Evelgrivion
Gunpoint Diplomacy
Posted - 2011.04.11 19:01:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Seymore Graves
Edited by: Seymore Graves on 11/04/2011 18:56:56
Originally by: Evelgrivion
In other words, CSM 6 is backing ideas already popular within CCP to make themselves look like they've accomplished a whole bunch of stuff.


Or alternatively the CSM is working towards a realistic and attainable goal that is popular with a large portion of the nullsec player base and has at least some measure of backing at CCP. Unlike some former CSMs who have just spewed blobs of differing issues out into the forums, resulting the current issue backlog.


As mentioned in my previous post, CSM6 has absolutely nothing to do with Time Dilation. It was being developed at the time the fifth CSM was in office, and it was first presented at that time.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.04.11 19:02:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: BugraT WarheaD
I don't know why but the Goon invasion of the CSM seems to already gives its fruits ... Time dilatation seems something cool,


It does, but it was suggested and began development long before CSM 6 was elected, so I'm not seeing the connection other then them championing an existing project (I definitely agree with them championing it though, it's a great idea)

Ivana Twinkle
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.04.11 19:02:00 - [54]
 

MY TIMEDILATION BUTAN

Eileene
Posted - 2011.04.11 19:04:00 - [55]
 

Time dilation is a cure to symptoms and not to the cause. It may be a solution for short timeframe. I think most of CCP efforts should go to fighting source of lag. Which means for example: multithreaded code for sol.

Gold Archer
Posted - 2011.04.11 19:09:00 - [56]
 

I'd like to see a commitment from CCP to aggressively upgrade the server architecture at the same time that this is implemented. I worry that "oh, we don't have to get new servers, time dilation will keep the fleet fights going" will become the new mantra if that feature comes into play. Time dilation is just a band-aid, albeit potentially a very good band-aid; work should never end on upgrading the underlying nodes with the hope of a future where time dilation is no longer necessary.

Faife
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.04.11 19:12:00 - [57]
 

Time Dilation is a fantastic idea and I'm looking forward to seeing CCP and CSM collaborating to make it a reality. Thank you to everyone involved.

frank reynolds
Posted - 2011.04.11 19:14:00 - [58]
 

I'd like to see a commitment to CCP having arcade games in the stations for incarna so there's something fun to do there, 25 isk per play

Aryndel Vyst
Amarr
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.04.11 19:16:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Evelgrivion
Edited by: Evelgrivion on 11/04/2011 18:59:10
Originally by: Havlentia Castigatrix
Originally by: Evelgrivion

In other words, CSM 6 is backing ideas already popular within CCP to make themselves look like they've accomplished a whole bunch of stuff.


So, time dilation. Think it's a good idea, or are you going to keep hammering at that messenger?


Nothing wrong with time dilation, but if it was already in the development pipeline. Time Dilation was presented during discussions over the term with CSM5, and it was a topic at fanfest roundtables. With a project so far along, I don't want to hear about it from the CSM, I want to hear about it from CCP.

What I want to hear out of the CSM is proof that they're acting to ensure that player interests are met to the benefit of the game. If that means hammering at the messenger, so be it. CSM is a stakeholder, and you, the player, should expect the CSM to act like a stakeholder. That means being proactive and pursuing player interests, demanding answers for issues like the forum fiasco, and generally making sure that they get information on our behalf as soon as they possibly can.

They shouldn't be waiting in the wings.


Hey basement dwelling neckbeard. How about you take a breath and quit sperging over the first correspondence over a CSM that has been in power for like a week. Good lord what is wrong with you? I realize you're a special little snowflake but the CSM isn't goddamn union leadership.

Jonathan Malcom
Gallente
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.04.11 19:18:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Seymore Graves
Edited by: Seymore Graves on 11/04/2011 18:59:42
Edited by: Seymore Graves on 11/04/2011 18:56:56
Originally by: Evelgrivion
In other words, CSM 6 is backing ideas already popular within CCP to make themselves look like they've accomplished a whole bunch of stuff.


Or alternatively the CSM is working towards a realistic and attainable goal that is popular with a large portion of the nullsec player base and has at least some measure of backing at CCP. Unlike some former CSMs who have just spewed blobs of differing issues out into the forums, resulting in the current issue backlog.


Empty quoting like a boss.


Pages: first : previous : 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ... : last (11)

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only