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Carniflex
StarHunt
Fallout Project
Posted - 2011.04.19 08:24:00 - [91]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1
Wait.... what?

Quote:
The Forum Fiasco of 2011 is an object lesson in the birth of the Bitter Eve Online Veteran


So you are upset that the new forums hiccuped?



It's not only the forums. Forums were just a tip of the iceberg, alhough somewhat shocking screwup for a content that is supposed to have been in development for quite a while. The last part of the expansion has had way too many smaller screwups for it all to be just consistence. Something is wrong and players who pay a keen attention to this passion of theirs do notice.

To OP. Well written post.

Carniflex
StarHunt
Fallout Project
Posted - 2011.04.19 09:02:00 - [92]
 

I would like to add, that this recent loss of faith in CCP is indeed seeming to be reality, at least from my personal perspective. What is worrisome from my perspective is that hit has been harder on the "top dogs" than on average grunt. Take a good look at the forums for a start. Notice the names of the people protesting? If you have been around more than few years in EVE you should know quite many of them. Most of them are not all doom and gloom but a lot of these people say that something feels wrong.

After being in the game for more than few years you should know the names of people who you pay attention to when they say something. EVE celebrities if you will, experts on various aspects of the game, even some more famous trolls.

I feel it too. I used to be "EVE is a lifestyle" and used to be in here for long haul quite seeing myself being still here a decade down the road. Today I dont know anymore. I mean I have invested 6 years of my life in here, EVE has been more than just a game for me. It's more like a hobby. Serious business thing. But I no longer feel confident today that I would be around here a decade down the road as well. It's not only the last 1.4 patch and the disaster it has been, there has been minor discontent over the past .. dunno exactly ... year and half perhaps. However, the last patch was sort of shock jolting me wake eyes wide open. Not only the forums, as I mentioned it's just a tip of iceberg. The last patch had more stuff in it that seem to be very rushed, not properly tested and above all - the design itself seem to be rushed. It's one thing if you have bug in the game, these happen, but if you rush a design then it's far more problematic in my opinion. As then crap happens and that crap is supposed to happen, as thats the way it's designed.

The discontent in my perspective is not limited to the forums alone. For various reasons people in top positions are "taking a long break". Director and top management level of people, who have spent past year working damn hard for their sandcastles and for the glory of corporation seem to be feeling .. discouraged. The loss is not crippling to my corporation as of yet. Enough of the corporate core will be remaining for it to remain functional for time being. However, two more of such patches and I would no longer be confident of that. People have different weights in corporations. Casual players are nice to have around, but they do not run a sucsessful player corporation. When a corporation loses a dedicated member then it's more serious thing for it.

EpicFailTroll
Posted - 2011.04.19 09:16:00 - [93]
 

Originally by: Carniflex
The only purpose in found in my earthly life is being a tough guy in an online game


EFT advises:
What you need to do is play WoW, it's a very streamlined platform and hardcore gamers have a blast running guilds in it.

Carniflex
StarHunt
Fallout Project
Posted - 2011.04.19 09:21:00 - [94]
 

Originally by: EpicFailTroll
Originally by: Carniflex
The only purpose in found in my earthly life is being a tough guy in an online game


EFT advises:
What you need to do is play WoW, it's a very streamlined platform and hardcore gamers have a blast running guilds in it.



So you are trying to say that EVE is not for hardcore gamers?

Helicity Boson
Amarr
The Python Cartel.
The Defenders of Pen Island
Posted - 2011.04.19 10:53:00 - [95]
 

All the monkeys in this thread do not realize that it's not about the forum screwup but the endemic lack of quality control, complete lack of scruples and proper internal procedure, and utter failure to prove that the company will deal with your personal information in a safe manner piled on top of years of decreasing quality in each release.

Inappropriate text removed, as per the forum rules. StevieSG

EpicFailTroll
Posted - 2011.04.19 11:07:00 - [96]
 

Edited by: EpicFailTroll on 19/04/2011 11:15:23
Originally by: Carniflex
So you are trying to say that EVE is not for hardcore gamers?


With the notable exception of balanced FPSes like Quake, where every player has exactly the same tools at his disposal -and therefore everything is perfectly balanced-, hardcore or competitive multiplayer gaming is a pathetic joke, an heresy, a farce and an abomination. The reason being, a certain category of players plays to win and will extract every bit of cheese or borderline exploits to get the upper edge and feel good about 'besting' someone in a video game.

Hardcore players in multiplayer games should be ridiculed and perhaps even banned, since they force developers to waste a lot of resources on making sure gameplay is extremely safe for all, which makes it bland moreover. Example: WoW, Trammel in UO.
Or, said hardcore players create situations as we have in EvE, where highsec is safe and boring, lowsec is mostly barren and gatecamped, and 0.0 a pyramid scheme and RMT haven for online sociopaths, be they sadists (leaders) or masochists (drones).

I see however no problem with playing Final Fantasy Tactics hardcore 18/24 and cheesing your way to domination upon the NPCs.


Originally by: Helicity Boson
All the monkeys in this thread do not realize that it's not about the forum screwup but the endemic lack of quality control, complete lack of scruples and proper internal procedure, and utter failure to prove that the company will deal with your personal information in a safe manner piled on top of years of decreasing quality in each release.

I suggest you stop being stupid, and actually read the goddamn post before you open your mouthes, you're creating vacuums all over the place with your vacant minds.



The only lack of quality control EFT can complain about is in playerbase quality assessment. There is, as mentioned above, a category of gamers who bring nothing to the playfield, and are not gaming, but metagaming as a temporary fix to their RL shortcomings.

Personal information people could access through phishing your details are maybe your real name and street address, not even your credit card full number. Oh boy oh boy what a dire situation.
And about your account itself, it's virtual goods. Are you attached to your internet spaceships? it's just pixels, it's just a game bro, why you mad so?

Your whining is sweet sweet music to EFT's ears.

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2011.04.19 11:09:00 - [97]
 

Originally by: EpicFailTroll
Originally by: Carniflex
So you are trying to say that EVE is not for hardcore gamers?


With the notable exception of balanced FPSes like Quake, where every player has exactly the same tools at his disposal -and therefore everything is perfectly balanced-, hardcore or competitive multiplayer gaming is a pathetic joke, an heresy, a farce and an abomination. The reason being, a certain category of players plays to win and will extract every bit of cheese or borderline exploits to get the upper edge and feel good about 'besting' someone in a video game.

Hardcore players in multiplayer games should be ridiculed and perhaps even banned, since they force developers to waste a lot of resources on making sure gameplay is extremely safe for all, which makes it bland moreover. Example: WoW, Trammel in UO.
Or, said hardcore players create situations as we have in EvE, where highsec is safe and boring, lowsec is mostly barren and gatecamped, and 0.0 a pyramid scheme and RMT haven for online sociopaths, be they sadists (leaders) or masochists (drones).

I see however no problem with playing Final Fantasy Tactics hardcore 18/24 and cheesing your way to domination upon the NPCs.


that's wrong.

best hardcore game is Disgaea. go play it and try to reach the level cap.

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.04.19 12:26:00 - [98]
 

The Most hardcore game ever is Minecraft


I wanna see someone make a titan

Calathea Sata
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.04.19 12:37:00 - [99]
 

Quake is one of a few "hardcore games" that has been turning into an e-sport over the world. It's totally skill based and it is a truly fair and square platform for a "game".

The "grindfests" that MMOs have turned into is just a way of the game complanies make money, it's built for grinding and waiting but not fair and square skill based gameplay.

EVE is one of the grindfest games but if CCP can incorporate more dependance on the actual "skills" of a player (not just long term planning/metagaming but actual reaction properly/not making mistakes in fights) it would be a nice thing to have.

Gravitone
Posted - 2011.04.19 12:59:00 - [100]
 

EVE is expanding, these are growing pains, get used to it.

Compared to CCPs vision of what EVE will become we are in like.. pre alpha

Carniflex
StarHunt
Fallout Project
Posted - 2011.04.19 15:07:00 - [101]
 

Originally by: Gravitone
EVE is expanding, these are growing pains, get used to it.

Compared to CCPs vision of what EVE will become we are in like.. pre alpha


You mean the "future vision video" ? Or the vision presented in fanfest(s) in the past. If first one then it's rather short term vision, I mean all you need is a bit walking around, dust and one gun in a station. The "honor is not about making the right choices but dealing with consequences" is already part of EVE. It's quite nice video actually. For the longer term, however, I dont think they have a vision. Not anymore.

I mean like .. for example, PI has been in production for quite a while. And we are ruling our planets in tyranny with ... dots and lines and hauling trip every other week. Right. They are going to expand it ofc ... one day. Khm .. Soon(tm) even.

Seeing a believable road map, even if it's without a timeline attached would go a long way towards restoring my faith in CCP. Big portion of "the problem" in my opinion is the feeling that right hand does not know what left hand is doing, just .. you know .. twitching around and doing "kneejerks" in response of whatever happens to be under the teams nose. It might not be as huge problem if there would be a goal towards what everyone would be aiming, as eventually it should end up roughly in that direction.

Currently it's just disclaimer "we will be ultimate sci-fi simulator" which is all nice, but does not seem to be something that is going to happen if the current trend about what me, OP and several others have been complaining about in the forums continues.

The underlying idea is afterall totally awesome in EVE. I know there IS competent guys in there as they have managed to put out some excellent stuff in the past. All I ask of CCP is to let the competent guys out of their cages and let them do competent and excellent stuff, as has been done in the past. I mean even currently they DO manage to do good stuff often enough so it's even harder to understand WTF is going on in there causing the increased frequency of "oops, crap".

Kale Kold
Mindless Griefing
Posted - 2011.04.19 15:41:00 - [102]
 

Edited by: Kale Kold on 19/04/2011 15:42:48

Originally by: Carniflex
Currently it's just disclaimer "we will be ultimate sci-fi simulator" which is all nice, but does not seem to be something that is going to happen if the current trend about what me, OP and several others have been complaining about in the forums continues.

This is the main problem! CCP at the minute are over promising and under delivering! Which is a sure fire way of annoying customers. For example:

Originally by: http://EzineArticles.com/3928441
Over-promising (even with the best of intentions) unfortunately damages professional reputations when individuals fail to deliver, negatively affecting your credibility and the perceptions of your competence. In today's business environment, it is always better to consistently exceed everyone's expectations. (Remember that accolades are not often given for merely meeting expectations, only exceeding them.)
http://EzineArticles.com/3928441


The real kicker is how they have lied about Incarna. I've been subscribing for two years waiting for that expansion and then at fanfest (2011) this year they drop the bomb that the footage we saw in 2008 was fake mockups and they've only just started working on it!!! Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad

I've been here since 2005 and i'm seriously considering quitting for good. Lying ****s!!!

Kale Kold
Mindless Griefing
Posted - 2011.04.19 15:44:00 - [103]
 

Originally by: Helicity Boson
All the monkeys in this thread do not realize that it's not about the forum screwup but the endemic lack of quality control, complete lack of scruples and proper internal procedure, and utter failure to prove that the company will deal with your personal information in a safe manner piled on top of years of decreasing quality in each release.


THIS, QFT!

Dr Slaughter
Minmatar
Coreli Corporation
Naraka.
Posted - 2011.04.19 18:05:00 - [104]
 

Edited by: Dr Slaughter on 19/04/2011 20:16:43
Originally by: Kale Kold
Originally by: Helicity Boson
All the monkeys in this thread do not realize that it's not about the forum screwup but the endemic lack of quality control, complete lack of scruples and proper internal procedure, and utter failure to prove that the company will deal with your personal information in a safe manner piled on top of years of decreasing quality in each release.


THIS, QFT!
Yup, bang on. Out of interest what happened to the infiniband / High Performance cell? I was expecting them to have finished breaking the sol services up into parts, avoiding the GIL, and implementing shared memory over IB, what, last summer. :|

ah...

Quote:
@CCP Yokai: In the old Infiniband thread, there a few interesting concepts discussed, such as the idea of dynamically shifting systems from node to node depending on load. I.e. one node handles 12 empty systems, then a hotdrop happens in one, CPU use spikes, and the node goes to shunt the other 11 systems off to less busy nodes so they don't lag. The other was the idea of making it possible to break up solar systems and give grids their own CPU, assigned dynamically when the grid is loaded. Even if a huge fleet fight was lagging out one grid, the rest of the system would still be fine - and instead of having 2500 people fighting in a system like now, you could have 2500 people fighting at each of the four SBUs in a contested system, for a total of 10,000 in local I know that CCP never promised anything like this, but I recall it discussed as "this could maybe be possible with Infiniband technology". Let's just assume that it would be possible to implement - would that make it worth the investment for CCP?


No reply... ok.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.04.19 18:24:00 - [105]
 

Originally by: Carniflex
Originally by: Gravitone
EVE is expanding, these are growing pains, get used to it.

Compared to CCPs vision of what EVE will become we are in like.. pre alpha


You mean the "future vision video" ? Or the vision presented in fanfest(s) in the past. If first one then it's rather short term vision, I mean all you need is a bit walking around, dust and one gun in a station. The "honor is not about making the right choices but dealing with consequences" is already part of EVE. It's quite nice video actually. For the longer term, however, I dont think they have a vision. Not anymore.

I mean like .. for example, PI has been in production for quite a while. And we are ruling our planets in tyranny with ... dots and lines and hauling trip every other week. Right. They are going to expand it ofc ... one day. Khm .. Soon(tm) even.

Seeing a believable road map, even if it's without a timeline attached would go a long way towards restoring my faith in CCP. Big portion of "the problem" in my opinion is the feeling that right hand does not know what left hand is doing, just .. you know .. twitching around and doing "kneejerks" in response of whatever happens to be under the teams nose. It might not be as huge problem if there would be a goal towards what everyone would be aiming, as eventually it should end up roughly in that direction.

Currently it's just disclaimer "we will be ultimate sci-fi simulator" which is all nice, but does not seem to be something that is going to happen if the current trend about what me, OP and several others have been complaining about in the forums continues.

The underlying idea is afterall totally awesome in EVE. I know there IS competent guys in there as they have managed to put out some excellent stuff in the past. All I ask of CCP is to let the competent guys out of their cages and let them do competent and excellent stuff, as has been done in the past. I mean even currently they DO manage to do good stuff often enough so it's even harder to understand WTF is going on in there causing the increased frequency of "oops, crap".


Fairly put.

I expect a certain amount of bonehead mistakes from any company, even the best in the business. They are still comprised of people and people make mistakes, despite their best intention.

The problem starts when the company in question blows their mistake/success curve. Usually this happens when the company in question has a hard time learning from past mistakes, or is unwilling to change their internal procedures to minimize them.

I don't think CCP has crossed this line yet. I try to keep firmly in mind that EVE is constructed from some pretty remarkable code. So remarkable, in fact, that nobody else has come close to making a comparable computer game. Even seemly small changes in the EVE code impact systems that other companies have yet to make work practically in the first place.

So yes, I cut CCP a hella lot of slack when they screw the pooch.

This in no way means that I don't believe they can do no better. More importantly, I think CCP believes they can do better as well... and is still motivated to do so.

From another poster:

Quote:
The real kicker is how they have lied about Incarna. I've been subscribing for two years waiting for that expansion and then at fanfest (2011) this year they drop the bomb that the footage we saw in 2008 was fake mockups and they've only just started working on it!!!




That would be incorrect.
They have been working on various implementations of ambulation/walking in stations/Incarna for a long time. At no point did they give you a release date to "hang on" for. The footage you saw was from a functional version that was found to not be able to deliver everything CCP needed it to deliver. That engine was scrapped/reworked into something better resulting eventually in Incarna. Hardly the same thing as being "faked".



Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.04.20 03:59:00 - [106]
 

Originally by: Kale Kold


The real kicker is how they have lied about Incarna. I've been subscribing for two years waiting for that expansion and then at fanfest (2011) this year they drop the bomb that the footage we saw in 2008 was fake mockups and they've only just started working on it!!! Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad

I've been here since 2005 and i'm seriously considering quitting for good. Lying ****s!!!


Youd think more ppl would be ****ed about this

Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
Posted - 2011.04.20 04:12:00 - [107]
 

Originally by: Sullen Skoung
Originally by: Kale Kold

I've been here since 2005 and i'm seriously considering quitting for good. Lying ****s!!!


Youd think more ppl would be ****ed about this


CCPs looks at this math in a funny way.... See once he quits, problem solved!

They know it's damn hard to retain people once they realise the game is past it's prime.

People quiting is a good thing, they shutup, means you only have to deliver shinny for the next wave of marketing.
They've been doing it this way since WoW showed hard figures of how much more money you can make by delivering less product.

The ironic thing is they picked up about 20-30k subscribers from WoW during that same period, then attempted to duplicate that failure.

"Eve Forever"... Says it all really, they understand that it's all about perception.
Lots of people subscribed to this game, not because of what it is, but what they imagine and hope it might be, or become.

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.04.20 05:12:00 - [108]
 

Originally by: Dr BattleSmith
Originally by: Sullen Skoung
Originally by: Kale Kold

I've been here since 2005 and i'm seriously considering quitting for good. Lying ****s!!!


Youd think more ppl would be ****ed about this


CCPs looks at this math in a funny way.... See once he quits, problem solved!

They know it's damn hard to retain people once they realise the game is past it's prime.

People quiting is a good thing, they shutup, means you only have to deliver shinny for the next wave of marketing.
They've been doing it this way since WoW showed hard figures of how much more money you can make by delivering less product.

The ironic thing is they picked up about 20-30k subscribers from WoW during that same period, then attempted to duplicate that failure.

"Eve Forever"... Says it all really, they understand that it's all about perception.
Lots of people subscribed to this game, not because of what it is, but what they imagine and hope it might be, or become.


You fail at quoting

Quote:
The real kicker is how they have lied about Incarna. I've been subscribing for two years waiting for that expansion and then at fanfest (2011) this year they drop the bomb that the footage we saw in 2008 was fake mockups and they've only just started working on it!!


thats what I was talking abouty ppl should be ****ed about not ppl quitting

Skuz'Kunn
Posted - 2011.04.20 08:42:00 - [109]
 

Adapt or Die.

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2011.04.20 09:09:00 - [110]
 

Originally by: Skuz'Kunn
Adapt or Die.
we did, so we whineRazz


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