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Teranul
Posted - 2011.04.18 00:54:00 - [61]
 

Edited by: Teranul on 18/04/2011 00:54:39
Originally by: Tarasina

I can think of WoW and EQ2. EQ2 had expansions every 6 months or so in the beginning and they managed to have lots more content than even Apocrypha, probably more content than Eve has had since Apocrypha (incl. Apocrypha). Now they release yearly expansions. WoW is every 2 years? Lots more content not to mention the dungeons, balancing etc in-between the expansions.

EQ2 expansions can only be called "content" insofar as they introduce new locations and enemies. They do not, however, introduce any new gameplay... something EVE manages in spades.

WoW is WoW. It is the epitomy of theme park MMOs... but EVE is not a theme park MMO. See, WoW's problem is that the content they do provide, however great in quantity it may be, quickly runs dry and becomes a repetitive chain of dungeon raids.

Again, EVE does not have this problem. The fact that many players are still around from the time the game released eight years ago says enough. I'm not sure you can say that for any other MMO ever released. Granted, this is an issue of the core designs of the games in question, but the point remains - CCP has managed to retain customers for a greater length of time than any other developer has managed to do in the entire genre.

Originally by: Shar Tegral
So by your example, just because other people suck badly it is okay to stick with someone who sucks less. It's a flawed argument.

CCP has delivered good content;
CCP can deliver good content;
CCP just does not deliver right now.


You're going entirely by your own standard of "good content", which is NOT a realistic one.

I am not saying that it is acceptable simply because they are number one... but I AM saying they are number one.

You have no alternatives.

No other options.

Nowhere else to go but out.

Thus, CCP will continue to do what they want to do. They are not beholden to you, certainly not more than they are beholden to their stakeholders.

Originally by: Shar Tegral
Without positive and negative feedback from its customers CCP would be even more lost than it currently is right now. So, do not think everyone is all emoragequitting. It is not even emoraging. Each person is simply expressing a valuable insight into one (or more) customer's expectation and (dis)satisfaction levels.

As to supporting CCP over and above all the others: I pay CCP for a game. I do not pay them. Egocentrically, of course all others are worse, they don't have me as a customer to make them better.


I can't help but wonder if feedback is more useful with the "YOU'RE GOING TO FAIL" overtone that everyone on the internets loves to toss around willy-nilly. I mean, y'know, it's probably easier to take people seriously when they aren't doomsaying.

Just a thought.

Also, that last line... hah! Good laughs were had there.

I love it when individuals hold their opinions over all others. It really brightens my day (while simultaneously destroying all faith in humanity). Rolling Eyes

Aranolt Sagura
APEX Unlimited
APEX Conglomerate
Posted - 2011.04.18 01:10:00 - [62]
 

I was too busy playing the awesome game to worry about the forums.

Teranul
Posted - 2011.04.18 01:41:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: Aranolt Sagura
I was too busy playing the awesome game to worry about the forums.

There is a lesson to be learned here.

I shall attempt to follow this wonderfully insightful example.

EpicFailTroll
Posted - 2011.04.18 02:16:00 - [64]
 

I personally find it highly hilarious that griefers and people mocking other players for raging over pixel spaceships loss, would rage over possible compromising of their account. Which holds nothing but pixel spaceships.
There's hardly any difference, for me, between the online sociopathic metagamer that sets up a gatecamp with several alts, and the hacker who phishes your login details.

Oh wait there's one. The griefer wants you to rage, and on his teamspeak, if possible, while the hacker just wants to steal your virtual goods.

One of them reveals in your misery, the other one is mostly after his own personal profit. Which one of them is the most spiritually destitute?

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2011.04.18 02:30:00 - [65]
 

Edited by: Grimpak on 18/04/2011 02:38:41
Originally by: EpicFailTroll
One of them reveals in your misery, the other one is mostly after his own personal profit. Which one of them is the most spiritually destitute?
I dunno. I actually like tears myself.

edit: like yours.

MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2011.04.18 02:42:00 - [66]
 

Edited by: MotherMoon on 18/04/2011 02:43:07
"I am having an increasingly hard time convincing people to join EVE"

funny I've having the opposite problem.


most people don't give aflying **** about forums.

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2011.04.18 03:28:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: MotherMoon
Edited by: MotherMoon on 18/04/2011 02:43:07
"I am having an increasingly hard time convincing people to join EVE"

funny I've having the opposite problem.


most people don't give aflying **** about forums.
and yet, this isn't about the forums, more them being the tip of the iceberg.


but hey, who cares about it. let's push a game with half-made stuff, since that pulls quite allot of people in.

I mean, why having a full cake when you can have half of it?

EpicFailTroll
Posted - 2011.04.18 03:33:00 - [68]
 

Edited by: EpicFailTroll on 18/04/2011 03:34:26
Originally by: Grimpak
]I dunno. I actually like tears myself.

edit: like yours.


Are you even trying, your answer has no logical relation to the question asked.
You like tears, but who is the most spiritually destitute between a griefer -and you seem to be wanting to announce yourself as one-, and a phisher?

Why are griefers and scammers crying about forum security issues? do they fear for their virtual possessions?

So many questions!

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2011.04.18 03:36:00 - [69]
 

Edited by: Grimpak on 18/04/2011 03:44:36
Originally by: EpicFailTroll
Edited by: EpicFailTroll on 18/04/2011 03:34:26
Originally by: Grimpak
I dunno. I actually like tears myself.

edit: like yours.


Are you even trying, your answer has no logical relation to the question asked.


exactly.

Originally by: EpicFailTroll
Are you even trying, your answer has no logical relation to the question asked.
You like tears, but who is the most spiritually destitute between a griefer -and you seem to be wanting to announce yourself as one-, and a phisher?
hell if I know, I'm just Grimpak

Originally by: EpicFailTroll
Why are griefers and scammers crying about forum security issues? do they fear for their virtual possessions?

So many questions!
tears. it takes away tears. wouldn't you be pretty ****ed off if they took away your toys?

Originally by: EpicFailTroll
So many questions!


well I could tell you the meaning of life, but that would be boring.

in relation to EVE tho, that's for me to ask and you to find out.

EpicFailTroll
Posted - 2011.04.18 03:51:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: Grimpak
tears. it takes away tears. wouldn't you be pretty ****ed off if they took away your toys?


As a grown person, I know the difference between games and real life.
Y would u b mad at gaem stuff bro? that's just pixels, don't get mad at losing them.

Originally by: Grimpak
well I could tell you the meaning of life, but that would be boring.
in relation to EVE tho, that's for me to ask and you to find out.


The meaning of EvE? it's just a game, so stolen virtual goods are irrelevant to your real life, and broken forums even more so.

And who are you by the way?

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2011.04.18 09:17:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: EpicFailTroll
Originally by: Grimpak
tears. it takes away tears. wouldn't you be pretty ****ed off if they took away your toys?


As a grown person, I know the difference between games and real life.
Y would u b mad at gaem stuff bro? that's just pixels, don't get mad at losing them.
I'm not mad. you seem to be quite taken on making people mad tho.

Originally by: EpicFailTroll
Originally by: Grimpak
well I could tell you the meaning of life, but that would be boring.
in relation to EVE tho, that's for me to ask and you to find out.


The meaning of EvE? it's just a game, so stolen virtual goods are irrelevant to your real life, and broken forums even more so.

And who are you by the way?
no u.

EpicFailTroll
Posted - 2011.04.18 10:38:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: Grimpak
Crying or Very sad


You sound bored, sad, and dull-witted. Why don't you play the game, instead of the forums? Metagaming doesn't seem to do you good.

Back to the question: what is the difference between an ingame griefer and an out of game phisher?

Lost Greybeard
Gallente
Posted - 2011.04.18 11:13:00 - [73]
 

Barely-disguised 13-year-old entitlement whine is barely disguised.

Mutnin
Amarr
Mutineers
Posted - 2011.04.18 11:41:00 - [74]
 

Edited by: Mutnin on 18/04/2011 11:43:24

As someone whom has done a lot of online marketing for various subscription based services I see CCP going down the road of chasing new subscribers in exchange for keeping customers happy.

It's clear as day, that it's what they are after because anyone running a subscription based business model knows it's easier to create new joins by making new flashy stuff rather than earning new joins from a happy customer base and working product. In essence new flashy stuff is the easy way out.

The reality is by the numbers the new flashy method works, especially in the gaming market as we have seen with the constant influx of ****ty games on consoles for example (just add fancy graphics and the boxes will sell method).

When I started playing games on the PC, you used to play that game for years. While it's great to build online friends and a loyal customer base it just doesn't bring in the money like popping out a new flashy once or twice a year, to pull in subs from the ADD generation.

The problem with using this business model with a game like EVE Online, is that it's not really the game creators that make the content, but rather the players. With out a healthy community doing the things we do, CCP only has half the game.

Simply put CCP needs to look at it's player base as it's business partners, because the reality of it is that's what we are. We are what create the content that plays out in the sand box this is something CCP can not create as they can only give us the tools to do so. Yet time and time again CCP fails to deliver us with the tools we need to create the gaming experience they advertise.

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2011.04.18 12:00:00 - [75]
 

Originally by: EpicFailTroll
Originally by: Grimpak
Crying or Very sad


You sound bored, sad, and dull-witted. Why don't you play the game, instead of the forums? Metagaming doesn't seem to do you good.

Back to the question: what is the difference between an ingame griefer and an out of game phisher?
yes I am bored, sad and dull-witted.Sad

and answering your question, what is the difference between a duck and a supercomputer?

Dr Slaughter
Minmatar
Coreli Corporation
Naraka.
Posted - 2011.04.18 12:08:00 - [76]
 

+1 but not holding my breath

Shawna Gray
Gallente
Posted - 2011.04.18 12:09:00 - [77]
 

Originally by: Mutnin

The problem with using this business model with a game like EVE Online, is that it's not really the game creators that make the content, but rather the players. With out a healthy community doing the things we do, CCP only has half the game.



In the last 5 or so years I have played this game I havent had any trouble finding other players willing to shoot me or otherwise provide content for me.

EpicFailTroll
Posted - 2011.04.18 13:30:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Grimpak
lul ^^ so randum XD


Why are ingame griefers complaining about phishers? don't they both want to steal/erase your virtual goods?
Why do people mocking other people for whining about pixels, actually whine about pixels themselves?


Originally by: Evelgrivion
Eve Online begins, and ends, with griefing people in internet spaceships.

Forum security issues can lead to people griefing your internet spaceships. I find it very EvE-like. Why u mad so?

hired goon
Posted - 2011.04.18 14:04:00 - [79]
 

How can anyone say the OP has raised good points? There are no points that I can see, except a very general rant about CCP not going in a direction the vets want the OP wants. When CCP read your post, what are they going to think? Did you raise any specific issues they can improve? No, you just basically articulated "WAAAAAAAAAAAAA"

I'm a vet and I have faith in what CCP is making. They have remained true to the vision and although they've got lazy and made a few mistakes in the past, they are only human, and they still produce the BEST mmog that exists today. I just don't understand how people like you can play a game like Eve, that's seen such extreme improvements since its release in 2003 that it's barely recognizable as the same game, all for free, and still come up with reasons why its direction is wrong and needs to be improved.

Keep your stuff. It stinks.

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2011.04.18 14:26:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: EpicFailTroll
Originally by: Grimpak
lul ^^ so randum XD


Why are ingame griefers complaining about phishers? don't they both want to steal/erase your virtual goods?
Why do people mocking other people for whining about pixels, actually whine about pixels themselves?


I dunno? is the sky blue, or does it rain wine?

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.04.18 15:02:00 - [81]
 

Potential indeed.

Here's an idea, vote with your money.

If you find another game better than eve, play it. If you find a game with less haters than eve, play it. If you find a game that can't be hacked, play it. If you find a game with no exploits, botters, or RMT, play it.

And have fun doing it, because you deserve it.

EpicFailTroll
Posted - 2011.04.18 15:30:00 - [82]
 

Edited by: EpicFailTroll on 18/04/2011 15:30:41
Originally by: Grimpak
lul XD so randum ^^


Why are ingame griefers complaining about phishers? don't they both want to steal/erase your virtual goods?
Why do people mocking other people for whining about pixels, actually whine about pixels themselves?

My guess is that people devoid of empathy, and therefore of any developed sensibility, will complain and cry about the most futile things, so as to have other people believe they're really clever and sensitive.
In that case, "forum fiasco". What fiasco is there? if you don't like the new layout, suggest a better one, be useful in the community. You got your account details phished? big deal, email customer support and you'll get everything back in a couple days.

JC Anderson
Caldari
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2011.04.18 15:54:00 - [83]
 

Edited by: JC Anderson on 18/04/2011 15:55:30
Another +1 from me.

Not so much because I agree with all the points made, or due to the fact that I've played Eve for quite some time.

I just appreciate the post because it is thoughtful and well written.

Ana Vyr
Caldari
Posted - 2011.04.18 16:11:00 - [84]
 

As longs as CCP incrementally advances toward their eventual vision for this game, I will be interested in playing to some degree. It would be great if they could make massive leaps in development, certainly, but this has not been their approach historically, so I don't see why anyone would expect it.

Xtreem
Gallente
The Collective
White Noise.
Posted - 2011.04.18 16:13:00 - [85]
 

wish i knew where i was in Eve... i honestly don't know!

I will have played for 8 years in november, some of the things they do and change make me either look with a confused stare..WHY!.. then others make me angry, yet i sit and think, this game is so indepth, and so awesome.. i will play forever...

I started with 1 account in 2003, i got another in 2004
by 2010 i had 8 accounts..
by April 2011 i had unsubbed all but the 2 first chars...
I dont think i will ever let go of those 2.

sometimes the only thing that stops me un-subbing has been how much i have invested in these chars, i dont want to lose out on their training.
some other times i just log in to chat with people and spin ships
then sometimes i get an urge to play and kick eve with days of playing!




I Just wish i knew!!!
help meeeeeeeeeeeee

Narome Bandur
Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
Posted - 2011.04.18 16:27:00 - [86]
 

You need to set new goals or reflect on what can be added to the meta-game.

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.04.18 16:42:00 - [87]
 

Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 18/04/2011 16:46:06
Originally by: Teranul
I'm not sure you can say that for any other MMO ever released.


I can likely think of a few. Ones that should have died years ago and only the hard core players are still playing them. Game that used to be called TenSix that was played on Heat.net and is now known as Project Visitor comes to mind, AO, stuff like that.

Originally by: MotherMoon
Edited by: MotherMoon on 18/04/2011 02:43:07
"I am having an increasingly hard time convincing people to join EVE"

funny I've having the opposite problem.



Yea ok... lol cause ppl flock to this game and dont think theres a high learning curve or that this is the MMO equivalent to Mos Eisley lol

They also stay for a long time, especially the instant gratification types.

Elyssa MacLeod
Posted - 2011.04.18 16:49:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: hired goon
How can anyone say the OP has raised good points? Did you raise any specific issues they can improve? No, you just basically articulated "WAAAAAAAAAAAAA"
more examples of sticking fingers in ears and screaming "LALALALA CCP IS GOD LALALA"


Ppl like the above make me lol

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2011.04.18 18:38:00 - [89]
 

Originally by: EpicFailTroll
Edited by: EpicFailTroll on 18/04/2011 15:30:41
Originally by: Grimpak
lul XD so randum ^^


Why are ingame griefers complaining about phishers? don't they both want to steal/erase your virtual goods?
Why do people mocking other people for whining about pixels, actually whine about pixels themselves?

My guess is that people devoid of empathy, and therefore of any developed sensibility, will complain and cry about the most futile things, so as to have other people believe they're really clever and sensitive.
In that case, "forum fiasco". What fiasco is there? if you don't like the new layout, suggest a better one, be useful in the community. You got your account details phished? big deal, email customer support and you'll get everything back in a couple days.

yeah ok. you still didn't answer to my question tho.

Steve Thomas
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2011.04.18 18:44:00 - [90]
 

EA does not buy falling knives.

your thinking SOE.


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