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Sorru
Posted - 2011.04.20 09:32:00 - [91]
 

You could allways buy a set of sensor strength implants.

Celia Therone
Posted - 2011.04.20 11:45:00 - [92]
 

Originally by: RaptorXL
The new jamming is rediculous.
Was perma jammed for over 10 minutes in a nighthawk on 'The assualt'.
Refit with a sensor backup array and a eccm and an alt using projected eccm, same ****. 10 minutes of jamming before I was fed up and warped out.
Can't even lock long enough to get drones to engage.
Exaclty what is the point of making it impossible to run caldari missions or rather, to use caldari ships? Trying to kill off only one of the 4 races? Either everyone will stop flying caldari to avoid being jammed or they will stop flying caldari missions... either way, CCP has effectively ruined 1/4th of the game.


Use friend or foe missiles - they don't need a lock they just target the closest ship or object. So you AB/MWD to the ship that is jamming you, or could jam you, and spam it with FoF until it dies. Repeat until you aren't jammed any more.

Alberik
Posted - 2011.04.20 16:19:00 - [93]
 

Originally by: Celia Therone

Use friend or foe missiles - they don't need a lock they just target the closest ship or object. So you AB/MWD to the ship that is jamming you, or could jam you, and spam it with FoF until it dies. Repeat until you aren't jammed any more.



funny if you try to do GE. Was webbed down to about 10m/s in the last (not bonus) stage, so no ABing to any target until all triggers were pulled. i managed to get 1 or 2 cycles of cruise furies on one target every now and then and let the drones do the rest while firing fofs with my golem. the longest time permajammed was about 6 minutes.

i dont like the jamming in missions very much, but now its far out of way. i could understand if the ewar-hulls would do some jamming, this would give new choices, killing the jamming or the ganking ships first.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2011.04.20 16:31:00 - [94]
 

Originally by: Alberik
the longest time permajammed was about 6 minutes.


ShockedLaughing

Damn...

stoicfaux
Gallente
Posted - 2011.04.20 16:42:00 - [95]
 

Edited by: stoicfaux on 20/04/2011 16:43:39
Originally by: Alberik

i managed to get 1 or 2 cycles of cruise furies on one target

the longest time permajammed was about 6 minutes.




I'm not use which is worse, being jammed for six minutes or a using cruise missiles on a Golem. ugh



Insert Your Name
Posted - 2011.04.20 17:32:00 - [96]
 

Originally by: Guilliman R
Originally by: CCP Big Dumb Object
We are currently looking into recent issues with NPC jamming in missions/complexes. Thanks for your patience.



Let me guess, noone tested it or you refused to listen to the testers.


This, and how about not changing anything that isn't broken in the first place?

Pod Amarr
Posted - 2011.04.20 17:50:00 - [97]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: Guilliman R
Originally by: CCP Big Dumb Object
We are currently looking into recent issues with NPC jamming in missions/complexes. Thanks for your patience.



Let me guess, noone tested it or you refused to listen to the testers. If it's broken it shouldn't get on TQ.


In theory yes.

In practice, name one software company that has never let a bug slip out out to the public.


That is true however the recent forum fiasco plus the boot.ini fiasco plus countless bugs in every release makes me think that ccp's qa departments is staffed by monkeys.
God this is more horrible then Lotus Notes

grumpyguts1
Posted - 2011.04.20 21:20:00 - [98]
 

Had this happen to me.. seemed to be perma jammed, so switched to FOF in my Tengu and watched some TV, sadly it does kill blitzingugh

Hyland X
Posted - 2011.04.21 15:44:00 - [99]
 

Edited by: Hyland X on 21/04/2011 15:45:24
Well I just came back to Eve after a long break, and despite all the great stuff in the patch, this just killed the game for me. Just lost my Rokh after being perma jammed then, get this, warp scrambled by a BATTLESHIP!! That's a lovely combo CCP, thanks. Even if I COULD fight through the jamming long enough to sick my drones on the scrambler, they couldn't take down a BS in time to save me.

This happened on Dread Gurista's Recon part 1, level 4. If anyone want's to confirm there is a warp scrambling BS, because people in chat are saying there isn't.

Doing missions is out of the question for Caldari players at the moment. And after losing two battleships in two days, I can only wish I had found this threat sooner so I would have known wtf the deal was. I didn't come back to this game after a year to lose tons of ISK on buggy game design, or mine space rocks to make up for it.

I don't have a trillion skill points or a tricked out Caldari Navy Scorpion. But before I took a break, what I had was PLENTY enough for level 4 missions. Now I can't even get past the first freaking group of rats in Recon part 1 without being jammed/scrambled to death? What the hell? Did you even test this patch?

I'm putting in a ticket. You can refund my Rokh, or lose a subscriber (again). Your choice.

SPACESHIPS LAWYER
Posted - 2011.04.21 16:06:00 - [100]
 

This whining is ridiculous. Missions are already not enough risk vs reward. Caldari ewar and jamming needs to be increased strength and chance by 75% at least over what is now in this patch. Also every ship should warp scramble in all factions missions. Plus energy neutralizer strenghth and chance increased with sensor damps etc.

Either make missions fair to players risk reward and remove from high sec.

Col Callahan
Caldari
Boogie Monsters
Posted - 2011.04.21 18:06:00 - [101]
 

Originally by: SPACESHIPS LAWYER
This whining is ridiculous. Missions are already not enough risk vs reward. Caldari ewar and jamming needs to be increased strength and chance by 75% at least over what is now in this patch. Also every ship should warp scramble in all factions missions. Plus energy neutralizer strenghth and chance increased with sensor damps etc.

Either make missions fair to players risk reward and remove from high sec.


I don't say this often....but your the exception....you are an idiot.

They wouldn't be looking into if they didn't feel it was a mistake. I just hope they get the patch out in a timely manner.

SPACESHIPS LAWYER
Posted - 2011.04.21 18:14:00 - [102]
 

Originally by: Col Callahan
Originally by: SPACESHIPS LAWYER
This whining is ridiculous. Missions are already not enough risk vs reward. Caldari ewar and jamming needs to be increased strength and chance by 75% at least over what is now in this patch. Also every ship should warp scramble in all factions missions. Plus energy neutralizer strenghth and chance increased with sensor damps etc.

Either make missions fair to players risk reward and remove from high sec.


I don't say this often....but your the exception....you are an idiot.

They wouldn't be looking into if they didn't feel it was a mistake. I just hope they get the patch out in a timely manner.


it is not a mistake, mission runner ruining eve with their no risk playstyle. either CCP continue to fix missions and increase NPC jamming and ewar and difficulty to balance risk vs reward, move all missions to lowsec and nullsec, or remove missions from game completely.


stoicfaux
Gallente
Posted - 2011.04.21 18:17:00 - [103]
 

Originally by: Hyland X

This happened on Dread Gurista's Recon part 1, level 4. If anyone want's to confirm there is a warp scrambling BS, because people in chat are saying there isn't.



You mean this mission? There shouldn't be scramming battleships. And it's Guristas, not Dread Guristas.


fyi: eve-survival mission reports



Feligast
Minmatar
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.04.21 18:52:00 - [104]
 

And Recon Part 1 isn't designed to be fought.. you get in a fast ship and run to the accel gate. Why the hell were you even in a position to be jammed and scrammed?

Felix Maynard
Posted - 2011.04.21 18:55:00 - [105]
 

Originally by: SPACESHIPS LAWYER
mission runner


Glad there are no gurista rats or compelxes outside of highsec. That would be terrible.

SPACESHIPS LAWYER
Posted - 2011.04.21 19:07:00 - [106]
 

Originally by: Felix Maynard
Originally by: SPACESHIPS LAWYER
mission runner


Glad there are no gurista rats or compelxes outside of highsec. That would be terrible.


The complaint is about missions but yes even in pure blind and lowsec guristas space jamming should be increased many many times current strength and chance to balance risk vs reward.

is too easy to farm for cheap isk. sanctum out of pure blind was good start but need more chance for ewar and scrambling to make ratting and plexing fair.

logic still stands. CCP is on the right track.

Vorekk
LowBall Heavy Industries
Cloning Gone Wrong
Posted - 2011.04.21 19:28:00 - [107]
 

What hell is making these people think that more jamming = more risk?

Holdout
Posted - 2011.04.21 19:39:00 - [108]
 

Originally by: Vorekk
What hell is making these people think that more jamming = more risk?


I suppose if you were jammed for a long enough period of time while warp scrambled, you could get your ship blown up.

ValentinaDLM
Minmatar
Ubi Concordia Ibi Victoria
Posted - 2011.04.21 20:38:00 - [109]
 

I general I feel this is a good move, my only frustration is that I can't counter ECM in ways I could with players, i.e. I can't damp a NPC to break it's lock or drain his cap so he can't run that ECM. Having some ewar work and others not is kinda silly to me.

That being said I was impressed that with 160+ sensor strength I got jammed a few times an "the assault" l4, not a big deal though really. If you really must do a bunch of gurista's missions or plexes gain aggro then take a blackbird alt full of remote ECCM and maybe a remote sensor booster or two (frigs suck to relock) if the alt takes damage warp them out and back in. With NPC AI this easy, you really can't complain too much.

if you don't have any alts, then fly a tengu. If you don't want to do that move out of caldari space, it is way too busy there as is.

Guilliman R
Gallente
Northstar Cabal
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2011.04.21 21:00:00 - [110]
 



What justifies that one part of the universe has much tougher (read: annoying) npc's for the same reward?



Hyland X
Posted - 2011.04.22 03:14:00 - [111]
 

Originally by: Feligast
And Recon Part 1 isn't designed to be fought.. you get in a fast ship and run to the accel gate. Why the hell were you even in a position to be jammed and scrammed?


Salvaging and missions are my bread and butter. You think the loot and salvage from 10+ ships isn't worth it as apposed to the pitiful ISK bonus for completing the mission faster? Please.

And yes, there was a very large ship warp scrambling. I was sure it was a BS but now people are making me doubt it... Still, what a crappy game experience. Honestly CCP...

Rens Cheque
Posted - 2011.04.22 17:11:00 - [112]
 

Originally by: Hyland X
Originally by: Feligast
And Recon Part 1 isn't designed to be fought.. you get in a fast ship and run to the accel gate. Why the hell were you even in a position to be jammed and scrammed?


Salvaging and missions are my bread and butter. You think the loot and salvage from 10+ ships isn't worth it as apposed to the pitiful ISK bonus for completing the mission faster? Please.

And yes, there was a very large ship warp scrambling. I was sure it was a BS but now people are making me doubt it... Still, what a crappy game experience. Honestly CCP...
If you think loot and salvage is the way to make money running missions....then you are not very good at running missions yet. Speed = money in mission running.

FishermansFriend
Posted - 2011.04.22 19:53:00 - [113]
 

Who ever said lvl 4's are single player content, maybe bring the whole line of npc ewar in line with this is require a tank+dps for missions. Lvl 4's are to easy and risk-less to be pulling 30/40/50/60mil/hr on a single account. I think it's time overall bounty's were reduced by making the npc's harder to kill and LP amount was boosted slightly. Makes an isk sink and returns profit/risk back to eve with lowsec having extremely good lp/bounties for lvl 4's and highsec being kinda meh.

llKeylockll
Posted - 2011.04.22 20:52:00 - [114]
 

I recently went with a Conjunctive/Gravimetric Backup fit on a Rattlesnake and avoided being ecm'd almost entirely.

ValentinaDLM
Minmatar
Ubi Concordia Ibi Victoria
Posted - 2011.04.22 21:03:00 - [115]
 

Originally by: Rens Cheque
Originally by: Hyland X


Salvaging and missions are my bread and butter. You think the loot and salvage from 10+ ships isn't worth it as apposed to the pitiful ISK bonus for completing the mission faster? Please.


If you think loot and salvage is the way to make money running missions....then you are not very good at running missions yet. Speed = money in mission running.


Playing Devil's advocate a bit here, I make lots more with salvage and loot as my current standings plan requires me to decline all sansha, gallente, and minmatar missions from my amarr agents. So I could run them quickly and then run into a situation where I would have to decline on all my agents on all my charaters and then have idle time where i couldn't run a mission in high sec. Not to mention the gains by farming Worlds Collide.

That being said, if you have your LP skills up, speed beats salvaging and looting, assuming you are not like me and declining missions alot. And also if you are not getting your mission time bonus because you took too long salvaging you are definitely doing something very very wrong, most of those missons lot you have hours to get them done and salvage, and you can get most l4 missions done in a t1 cruiser quicker than an hour, much less the three or so you usually got for your bonus.


Rens Cheque
Posted - 2011.04.22 21:16:00 - [116]
 

Originally by: ValentinaDLM
Playing Devil's advocate a bit here, I make lots more with salvage and loot as my current standings plan requires me to decline all sansha, gallente, and minmatar missions from my amarr agents. So I could run them quickly and then run into a situation where I would have to decline on all my agents on all my charaters and then have idle time where i couldn't run a mission in high sec. Not to mention the gains by farming Worlds Collide.

That being said, if you have your LP skills up, speed beats salvaging and looting, assuming you are not like me and declining missions alot. And also if you are not getting your mission time bonus because you took too long salvaging you are definitely doing something very very wrong, most of those missons lot you have hours to get them done and salvage, and you can get most l4 missions done in a t1 cruiser quicker than an hour, much less the three or so you usually got for your bonus.
You are not yet efficient at missioning. Once your faction standing is sufficiently high you can decline missions left and right and not lose much standing at all for doing so.

Aside from that, you seem to be claiming that because you spend a lot of time sitting around doing nothing, you might as well go salvage those missions you just finished. Not a very compelling argument that salvage/loot is the way to make money running missions.

Hyland X
Posted - 2011.04.22 21:30:00 - [117]
 

Originally by: Rens Cheque
If you think loot and salvage is the way to make money running missions....then you are not very good at running missions yet. Speed = money in mission running.


Well since Eve is a "sandbox", I choose to loot and salvage because that's how I like to play. Is there a problem with that?

And yes, speed is key. Which is why being perma-jammed is a major nerf to those, especially Caldari, who run missions.

I know it's hard for you older players, but try to remember that not EVERYONE has a Golem or whatever and can blitz every mission. Oh wait, bad example, the Golem is apparently worthless now with all the jamming anyway.

Hyland X
Posted - 2011.04.22 21:59:00 - [118]
 

Originally by: FishermansFriend
Who ever said lvl 4's are single player content, maybe bring the whole line of npc ewar in line with this is require a tank+dps for missions. Lvl 4's are to easy and risk-less to be pulling 30/40/50/60mil/hr on a single account. I think it's time overall bounty's were reduced by making the npc's harder to kill and LP amount was boosted slightly. Makes an isk sink and returns profit/risk back to eve with lowsec having extremely good lp/bounties for lvl 4's and highsec being kinda meh.


You might have had a good point if you couldn't make BILLIONS an hour selling Plex with absolutely ZERO risk or effort...

If missions become an "ISK sink" instead of profitable, then nobody without a second account will do them. Congrats, you made the game less fun.

Eve is supposed to be a sandbox MMO where you get to decide how to play. I'm seeing people, probably pirates or PVP'eers, who want to see high-sec mission grinding killed off so their preferred playstyle becomes dominant. That goes against everything EVE is supposed to stand for.

Teranul
Posted - 2011.04.22 23:11:00 - [119]
 

This talk of nerfing mission running income is ****ing hilarious.

Also incredibly stupid. This thread is about the ******edness of the E-war setup, not your hangups with "risk/reward" or whatever other stupid bull**** you can't get out of your head.

I said it before, I'll say it again - NPC E-war in general is out of line with their other capabilities. Their tank, DPS, tracking, and speed are all blatantly inferior to that of NPC ships, so obviously their E-war should follow suit. It doesn't make any sense for it to be any different.

Either that, or you cut a bunch of ships out of the missions themselves and increase NPC stats accordingly to compensate. Obviously, one of these would take less time (and thus, money) than the other... you can probably guess where I'm going with this.

SPACESHIPS LAWYER
Posted - 2011.04.23 00:10:00 - [120]
 

Originally by: Teranul
This talk of nerfing mission running income is ****ing hilarious.

Also incredibly stupid. This thread is about the ******edness of the E-war setup, not your hangups with "risk/reward" or whatever other stupid bull**** you can't get out of your head.

I said it before, I'll say it again - NPC E-war in general is out of line with their other capabilities. Their tank, DPS, tracking, and speed are all blatantly inferior to that of NPC ships, so obviously their E-war should follow suit. It doesn't make any sense for it to be any different.

Either that, or you cut a bunch of ships out of the missions themselves and increase NPC stats accordingly to compensate. Obviously, one of these would take less time (and thus, money) than the other... you can probably guess where I'm going with this.


Nerfing missions does not fix the issue at hand. Missions need to be removed from the game as this is a pvp only game.


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